Pat/Pro
Smash Ace
A marth is always in the final though. A fox isnt. Tier lists are ******** anyways.
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The 2006-2008 Tier list
- Thread starter Mic_128
- Start date
- Status
Number 1 DK
Smash Apprentice
Tiers are only ******** if you think they are a ranking system of how good the characters actually are. Tiers are based on tournament results, that's why DK is high tier in Japan, because one of their best players is a DK player. If everyone went to tournaments and placed high with Mewtwo, he would not be the lowest ranked character in the tiers.
Aesir
Smash Master
I addressed that in my second part. but fact of the matter is fox's tend to get farther then marths. hence why you see more fox's in the top 8 but marth always wins.
M2k just knows that match up like the back of his hand anyway so its not to surprising. >_>
Binx
Smash Master
Marth is getting an upswing in play and Fox has remained streadily one of if not the most used character. You can't judge a tier list based on what people play the most, it has to be based on what tactics are dominating the largest tournaments. PC Chris can beat almost everyone with his Fox, M2K can beat almost everyone with his Marth, KDJ can beat almost everyone with his Sheik. M2K counter picks Falcon with Fox, PC counter picks Peach with Marth. Thats the only thing you can base Tiers off is match ups, anything else other than that is inaccurate because player skill becomes a huge deal.
Think of it this way, Peach has a ton of advantages in countering IC grabs and seperating them, the reason she is a counter is because of these insanely effective tactics. Fox has an advantage vs almost every character because of his speed, the only characters he has trouble against really is Marth cause of range and Falco because Falco's lasers reduce his speed to a reasonable level. Grabs play a huge role in almost every match up. So does gimping, Fox owns characters like Falcon because of low percent kills off the stage.
If you take 2 characters, 2 people who know about them and discover which character is easier to win with then you know who has the advantage. The reason I word it this way is because EVERY single time you get hit is because you made a mistake or miss-predicted (a mistake also). If a Marth grabs you its because you didnt spot dodge, or you jumped to avoid something or you missed an attack or something. So if Marth has many ways of pressuring you into a ledge and he forces you to act and you dont do something very unexpected odds are you will be grabbed, after this grab you are usually fairly easy to predict again else you are at least recoving and still in a defensive position, Marth can put almost all characters in this situation.
Tier lists ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE. Creative players will discover effective tactics for every match up, this takes time and sometimes can be very random and it can stay very under ground for a long time, when very effective tactics are created the tiers can change, Marth players do double retreating fairs now, it leaves him very safe and allows him to maintain good spacing against almost all characters. He has definately moved up in Tiers. This tier list is no longer accurate. Who should be where is debatable because we dont have the best at every character in the world in one room testing tactics against eachother to know for sure. But from recent tournament results you can definately see a lack of Falco, who cares about the top 20? Falco is easy to play and you can get by against a majority of players with good tech skill alone. Falco does not deserve second place, he isn't that good anymore.
~Binx
Think of it this way, Peach has a ton of advantages in countering IC grabs and seperating them, the reason she is a counter is because of these insanely effective tactics. Fox has an advantage vs almost every character because of his speed, the only characters he has trouble against really is Marth cause of range and Falco because Falco's lasers reduce his speed to a reasonable level. Grabs play a huge role in almost every match up. So does gimping, Fox owns characters like Falcon because of low percent kills off the stage.
If you take 2 characters, 2 people who know about them and discover which character is easier to win with then you know who has the advantage. The reason I word it this way is because EVERY single time you get hit is because you made a mistake or miss-predicted (a mistake also). If a Marth grabs you its because you didnt spot dodge, or you jumped to avoid something or you missed an attack or something. So if Marth has many ways of pressuring you into a ledge and he forces you to act and you dont do something very unexpected odds are you will be grabbed, after this grab you are usually fairly easy to predict again else you are at least recoving and still in a defensive position, Marth can put almost all characters in this situation.
Tier lists ARE SUBJECT TO CHANGE. Creative players will discover effective tactics for every match up, this takes time and sometimes can be very random and it can stay very under ground for a long time, when very effective tactics are created the tiers can change, Marth players do double retreating fairs now, it leaves him very safe and allows him to maintain good spacing against almost all characters. He has definately moved up in Tiers. This tier list is no longer accurate. Who should be where is debatable because we dont have the best at every character in the world in one room testing tactics against eachother to know for sure. But from recent tournament results you can definately see a lack of Falco, who cares about the top 20? Falco is easy to play and you can get by against a majority of players with good tech skill alone. Falco does not deserve second place, he isn't that good anymore.
~Binx
Number 1 DK
Smash Apprentice
Falco will always be good enought to hold 2nd. If you think people have found a counter for Falco's SHL, Dair, and Dtilt, then let me know. He is ranked 2nd becuase there is no counter for him, and there never will be a truly effective one.
Aesir
Smash Master
LOL Sorry I couldn't help myself.
Falco is far from perfect all it takes is a well timed grab you can throw him off, once he's off he's dead. >_>
Falco is far from perfect all it takes is a well timed grab you can throw him off, once he's off he's dead. >_>
Down tilt?! LOL that's a good enough counter to your argument.
But I'll continue for fun.
Marth suffices as a counter to falco in so many ways. With keen focus and some practice you can power shield his shl very easily, and marth's grab combos lead into simple and easy edge guards so well it's ********. Also, Marth can DI out of Falco's shine combos pretty easily. The match up is A LOT more work for falco than for marth.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Ken just won Evo World with Marth.
And yes, being that Marth wins the most would put him on top of the TIER LIST.
Falco&Victory
Smash Champion
Finally, people that agree with me. I think I got bashed a few weeks ago for saying Marth for top tier. He isn't as a sexy as a good fox or falco player, but just because he doesn't have a lot of cool tricks doesn't mean he isn't awesome.
TIPPAH!
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Any character that can beat spacies consistently should be top no matter if that character was countered by the rest of the cast.
max32090
Smash Ace
i thought i was the only person who thinks pichu should be top tier!
Aesir
Smash Master
don't bring evo world into this, while your point is true. the first matches were best of 1 seriously wtf? >_>
Binx
Smash Master
Pretty dumb lol.
@ brookman - I am glad someone else realizes that Falco isn't very good
@ newb who's name I can't remember - Falco's Pillar can be stopped by a well timed grab, his counter is Marth and Ice Climbers and Peach too. Marth can COUNTER LASERS OMG, also one powershield at close range (is not that hard my friend can do it like 80%) and its a guaranteed grab which is probably death or edgegaurd which might as well be death against falco. ICs can dash dance and have nana take the laser and grab for a nearly inescable dthrow dair or wobble KO. Peach can float above SH laser height and come down whenever with a ridiculously low lag attack followed by grabs dsmashes or whatever, one grab here leads to a dead falco.
Dtilt can be stopped by ANYTHING cause it isn't good unless you are over 100% light and can't DI.
Cort
Apple Head
Actually, you could agree to a best of 3 but M2K didn't know. He also wanted to strike Dreamland but the match started abruptly and he didn't care to ban a stage.
If Ken was in M2K's spot the same thing would have happened to him (except Ken actually lost a SET to Mango in Marth vs Jiggs while M2K lost a single match vs Mango in Sheik vs Jiggs)
Either way, a Marth would have won.
If Ken was in M2K's spot the same thing would have happened to him (except Ken actually lost a SET to Mango in Marth vs Jiggs while M2K lost a single match vs Mango in Sheik vs Jiggs)
Either way, a Marth would have won.
I think falco is ****ing fantastic, he really just requires absolute precision, playing falco is more of a chore than anything.
Falco's pillar is stupid. IC's and peach don't COUNTER falco, especially not ICs, peach...eh. You make it sound like falco NEEDS to shl to win, OMG THEY NULLIFY TEH SHLERSZES ?!? COUNTERED!!
If falco can't SHL its obvious he can't do anything
On Giant Melee 2.0 damage HIS SHINE DOES ALL THE WORK FOR HIM
On Giant Melee 2.0 damage HIS SHINE DOES ALL THE WORK FOR HIM
axemangx
Smash Champion
Sorry for being off topic, but why is Dr. Mario over Mario? o_o
numberonenacho
Smash Lord
Falco&Victory
Smash Champion
I admit that Falco needs to be 3rd or 4th, but saying he's not good is just ignorance. And pillaring isn't worthless, people who pillar are worthless. You don't just do the whole SHFFLd Dair Shine repeat, throw in some lasers and grabs and maybe jump over and bair.
also Brookman you said Fox said? I hope you're not serious, seriously...
also Brookman you said Fox said? I hope you're not serious, seriously...
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
LOL @ this amazing post.
Kaa
Smash Cadet
HUZZAH!
You win this thread!
Binx
Smash Master
This is the main reason, Dr. Mario is also better at Tetris and Puzzle Fighter.
NeoFalconHavok
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2007
- Messages
- 48
What a gay list.
What a ******** post
brawlpro
Smash Master
^^What an awesome friend^^
Cort
Apple Head
I think I might agree with NeoFalconHavok.
BigRick
Smash Master
Almost 4000 posts guys, keep it up.
Marth and Sheik for top tier.
yada yada yada
Marth and Sheik for top tier.
yada yada yada
Eci4
Smash Ace
I think the highest tier should be called red/blue tier because red and blue were the best pokemons...
BigRick
Smash Master
Noob, everyone knows the tier list is god and should be the only deciding factor in how you pick your character
Falco&Victory
Smash Champion
you forgot how strong their attacks are because speed is worthless
and that Roy's B is the best attack in the game
someone landed ganon's utilt on my boozer earlier =\
BigRick
Smash Master
KevinM is right.
The tier list should be a deciding factor when you try to pick up a char.
The tier list should be a deciding factor when you try to pick up a char.
Eci4
Smash Ace
I agree, and furthermore, I believe tournaments should be 26 player rrs with the top seeded player using Mewtwo, and the worst seeded player using fox. All other characters will be chosen in this manner.
am I doing it right?
am I doing it right?
Falco&Victory
Smash Champion
yes
furthermore to stop tier confusion we need to ban all glitches in the game and play on FD
furthermore to stop tier confusion we need to ban all glitches in the game and play on FD
numberonenacho
Smash Lord
yes
furthermore we should turn on pokeballs, and set items to max.
furthermore we should turn on pokeballs, and set items to max.
Endless Nightmares
Smash Master
yes
furthermore we should play in single button mode so we can only use the control stick and A.
Hellooo, this is Super Smash Bros, not Super L-Cancel Bros!
furthermore we should play in single button mode so we can only use the control stick and A.
Hellooo, this is Super Smash Bros, not Super L-Cancel Bros!
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