The 2006-2008 Tier list

[Samochan]

Imo...

Peach is disadvantaged vs fox on ntsc and slight disadvantage on pal version. Peach has ccc, cg, edgeguard, projectiles, anti-fast faller. Fox has early kills, shine and it's applications, lasers, speed, anti-cc to some extent(dair and shine), combos.

Peach is slight disadvantaged/even/slightly advantaged vs Falco, pick your favourite. I dunno where the heck the myth that Peach counters Falco has come from, cause obviously lasers still own peach as much as any character and she is very comboable by Falco. Falco is only at disadvantage when we look at his recovery against peach. Maybe only Falco's that don't laser and run away against peach for some reason... So in short, Peach has ccc, projectiles, cg, edgeguard, float over lasers, anti-fast faller. Falco has lasers, anti-cc, shine and it's applications, spike, combos.

Peach is disadvantaged vs Marth, dunno how much the dair spike would tip the scale in Marth's favor, might be only slight disadvantage on Pal. Peach has projectiles, ccc to some extent, juggles decently, can live long. Marth has *spike (NTSC), range and priority, combos, early kills, grab combos, anti-cc, juggle.

Peach is disadvantaged vs Sheik on ntsc, slight disadvantage on Pal or even matchup. Peach has projectiles, ccc, juggles sheik moderately, edgeguard. Sheik has *grab, *early kills (NTSC), range and priority, projectiles, speed, juggles.

Peach is even with C.Falcon. Peach has ccc, cg, edgeguard, projectiles, anti-fast faller. Falcon rapesauce combo stuff, speed, early kills, juggles.

Peach is even with Samus. Peach ccc, anti-cc, projectiles, lives long. Samus has projectiles, lives long, aerial priority, screw attack.

Peach is slightly advantaged/even vs Ganondorf. Peach has projectiles, edgeguard, juggles ganon moderately, faster attacks. Ganon has power, range, anti-cc, grab kills.

Peach has slight advantage vs Jiggs. Peach has ccc, projectiles, lives long. Jiggs has priority, rest, can live long. Peach also lacks vertical KO setups.

Peach has slight advantage vs Link. Peach has ccc, anti-cc, projectiles, juggles Link moderately, edgeguard, faster aerials. Link has range, projectiles, can live long.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Peach loses to 4 Characters

Fox
Jiggs
Marth
Shiek

Even with:

Ganon
Falcon
Luigi

 

[mood4food77]

luigi....how so?

explain that one to me

i'd put link she's even with over luigi, same with y. link

 

[Eci4]

Peach loses to 4 Characters

Fox
Jiggs
Marth
Shiek

Even with:

Ganon
Falcon
Luigi

Add young link to the top list and I agree completly

 

[kenny10]

luigi....how so?

explain that one to me

Maybe because Luigi has good aerials. He could easily keep Peach from staying in the air with his high jump and fair. I don't think his wavedash would help that much against a Peach, though and his recovery is pretty bad against a Peach who knows how to edgeguard.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Young Link does not beat Peach.

Caveman did that 1 time and it was years ago.

A Young Link will never beat a good Peach ever again.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Peach loses to 4 Characters

Fox
Jiggs
Marth
Shiek

Even with:

Ganon
Falcon
Luigi

"Has some trouble with" =/= "loses to"

 

[kenny10]

I still disagree with Peach having an advantage over Jiggs. Because they're both floaties and have crazy recovery distance, they can both survive for a long time. However, it's harder for Jiggs to WoP a Peach because of her recovery. Also against Peach, Jiggs doesn't have many kill moves until you get to higher percentages except for fsmash, uair, and rest. Peach has her aerials, dsmash, and throws at a high enough percentage. That's my opinion.

 

[JBM falcon08]

i wouldn't go as far as saying falco is at a disadvantage to marth, also, doodah, i'm pretty sure ganon is at an advantage vs peach, alot of peach mains have told me so. and about the jiggs at an advantage to peach, i was told yesterday at a tourney that this jiggs thinks that jiggs is at the disadvantage.

 

[Eci4]

Jigglypuff beats peach.. Down smash doesn't work on the puff because it should always be above peach. Peach's fair has enough startup lag where jiggz can do something about it usually. It's harder to rack up damage with peach, so while they both gotta kill at high percents, it is usually easier for jigglypuff.

Turnips don't work on jigglypuff, they just get faired or baired away. Peach's bair can be traded with a fair/bair. Jigglypuff can camp better than peach can because she cannot rely on turnips.



As for the Peach/Y.Link matchup, why is peach so much better than y. link? Because of his projectile game, it is extremly hard to approach with peach. After that getting hit with either a bomb or a boomerang means peach eats either a dair or a uair.
Meh', thinking about it maybe I dont know this matchup so well, but I still think y. link is at least even with peach.

 

[ganon543]

i wouldn't go as far as saying falco is at a disadvantage to marth, also, doodah, i'm pretty sure ganon is at an advantage vs peach, alot of peach mains have told me so. and about the jiggs at an advantage to peach, i was told yesterday at a tourney that this jiggs thinks that jiggs is at the disadvantage.

lol stoops ganon goes exactly even with peach, it all evens out when you count in edgeguarding/ gayness.

 

[Aesir]

Falco has these little red lines that shoot out of his gun that go pew pew pew which can slow down marth. esencially though very techy and intellegent falcos can beat marth. its really only like mid-level fox's that lose. Unless its m2k then it doens't matter.

 

[REDRAGON]

Falco has these little red lines that shoot out of his gun that go pew pew pew which can slow down marth. esencially though very techy and intellegent falcos can beat marth. its really only like mid-level fox's that lose. Unless its m2k then it doens't matter.

Marth has a advantage vs Fox and Falco(more falco)
Its a small advantage, but a advantage none the less!!!



Redragon

 

[Eci4]

Marth has a advantage vs Fox and Falco(more falco)
Its a small advantage, but a advantage none the less!!!



Redragon

why?

also ten characters

 

[REDRAGON]

why?

also ten characters

Chaingrabin, range, edguarding, combos

 

[trademark0013]

I still disagree with Peach having an advantage over Jiggs. Because they're both floaties and have crazy recovery distance, they can both survive for a long time. However, it's harder for Jiggs to WoP a Peach because of her recovery. Also against Peach, Jiggs doesn't have many kill moves until you get to higher percentages except for fsmash, uair, and rest. Peach has her aerials, dsmash, and throws at a high enough percentage. That's my opinion.

u disagree with peach haivn the advantage... but.. this post explains how she does... wth?

 

[Eci4]

Chaingrabin, range, edguarding, combos

Edgegaurding, chaingrabbing, and combos all become much harder to pull off when a falco player presses y, b, and then down multiple times.

Chain grabs only work on Final Destination because falco can DI onto platforms fairly well. This isn't always good though as it can often set up for up tilts and tips. It's also fairly difficult to get a grab on falco

Falco can combo marth too, so you can't argue comboing as one of marths victories over falco, it is something they both have.

Marth's range is beat by falco's lasers.

Lastly is marth's edgeguarding, and yes, Marth can do that. The fact that falco has bad recovery makes it that much easier.

Falco however can be so disruptive that Marth can't really do anything but shield, and that is when the falco player starts a pillar. Honestly, because of lasers, falco has marth beat.

 

[REDRAGON]

Edgegaurding, chaingrabbing, and combos all become much harder to pull off when a falco player presses y, b, and then down multiple times.

Chain grabs only work on Final Destination because falco can DI onto platforms fairly well. This isn't always good though as it can often set up for up tilts and tips. It's also fairly difficult to get a grab on falco

Falco can combo marth too, so you can't argue comboing as one of marths victories over falco, it is something they both have.

Marth's range is beat by falco's lasers.

Lastly is marth's edgeguarding, and yes, Marth can do that. The fact that falco has bad recovery makes it that much easier.

Falco however can be so disruptive that Marth can't really do anything but shield, and that is when the falco player starts a pillar. Honestly, because of lasers, falco has marth beat.

Chaingrabs work on any stage cause even if they go to a platform, they will get hit with up-tilts and smash tipper..

combos might go even, but just because falco can be combod easily i think it goes in Marth favor.

A good Marth will play offensive vs falco so lasers are limited, and Marths sword gives him the range advantage.

On the stats it may look close, but ask pretty much any pro, and they will tell you that Marth has the advantage, its small but its there..

 

[Eci4]

If pretty much every pro would say marth has the advantage, and the tierlist was created by the pros (backroom=pros) then why is falco ahead of marth?

also, it isn't always possible to chaingrab on stages with platforms because if you DI onto the platform, and then tech away you can often get away from tilts.

The matchup is close, but I maintain it is in Falco's favor (not that it really matters)

 

[Endless Nightmares]

A good Marth will play offensive vs falco so lasers are limited, and Marths sword gives him the range advantage.

Playing offensive vs a Falco isn't always the best thing to do, 9 times out of ten you're running straight into a combo from Falco. How does playing offensive limit Falco's lasers? He can just back away and continue to laser.

 

[REDRAGON]

If pretty much every pro would say marth has the advantage, and the tierlist was created by the pros (backroom=pros) then why is falco ahead of marth?

also, it isn't always possible to chaingrab on stages with platforms because if you DI onto the platform, and then tech away you can often get away from tilts.

The matchup is close, but I maintain it is in Falco's favor (not that it really matters)

first off, just because one character has the advantage does not mean they should go above the other.......
second, if you look back when people made there own tier list every one put Falco as 4th or at least below Marth.
Ask people dude, EVERYONE knows that the age of Falco has past....
btw, do you watch ANY videos of ssbm??? Marth always pwns falco.....

no offense, but you need to check your info before saying stuff like this...

 

[Endless Nightmares]

no offense, but you need to check your info before saying stuff like this...

Roy does do pretty well vs falco/fox as far as i know.....

>___________________________>

Sometimes the best thing to do is take your own advice

 

[Eci4]

I mostly just play the game... and to say that videos mean anything says that everyone has the same skill level.

Also, as for the people posting their own tierlist, which one of them was a pro? I know some of these people are respected in their own smash communities, but that does not make them pro.

I know I'm not known or anything though, and I will admit, I do not know the marth/falco matchup.

Lastly, for some reason i was thinking that the tier list right now read Fox, Falco, Marth (but I now realize sheik is in between the two) but if it had been as I said, then yes, the Falco/Marth matchup would equal their ranking between 2nd and 3rd (sorry though this was my mistake)

I may be a bit biased to saying falco is better though as MN has so many falcos and so few (currently active) marths.

Now however, we are talking less and less on the matchup, and more on each other's credibility, which really doesn't matter. I don't see how the tier list really matters (says an original Ness main who switched to Fox)

Play who you can win with, and know your matchups for counterpicks. I'm going to quit posting here though because I really don't care about the tierlist. I know who is good (and all of the top 5 are good) I know who I like (I happen to like fox) and I know who I'll counterpick with.

 

[REDRAGON]

>___________________________>

Sometimes the best thing to do is take your own advice

Whats wrong with what i said???


To end the Falco vs Marth argument, i went to the falco guide and found this:
"Falco: 50% Marth: 50% (Pretty even and common fight, though marth has a slight advantage)"

score one for the boys back home!!!

 

[mood4food77]

he's pointing out to what you said about roy

roy gets butt ***** by fox/falco pretty much, but does better agaisnt them than most low tiers

you said roy can handle them....

 

[Smooth_One]

Yeah because opinions matter like, tons.

Hey Mood, does Ganon do particularly better in any matchup than Falcon would? I would think Ganon is generally better against floaties...?

 

[REDRAGON]

The reasons i say Roy "can handle" Fox is this:

1) Roy being a fast faller with decent weight does not die off the top easy, where fox gets most of his kills.
2) Roy can chaingrab Fox easy to a forward smash.
3) Roys down-tilt sets up an easy aerial or forward smash on Fox.
4) Roy can edgeguard the crap outta Fox with Down b and charge B.
5) Roys DED works wonders on Fox because he is a fast faller.

in short: Roy can kill fox pretty easy(usually a high weakness for him) and Roy does not die very easy in this fight...


I am not saying he has the advantage, buts its closer then some think...

 

[Pat/Pro]

If pretty much every pro would say marth has the advantage, and the tierlist was created by the pros (backroom=pros) then why is falco ahead of marth?

also, it isn't always possible to chaingrab on stages with platforms because if you DI onto the platform, and then tech away you can often get away from tilts.

The matchup is close, but I maintain it is in Falco's favor (not that it really matters)

Pretty much every pro would consider marth to have a slight advantage over falco. The reason he is behind him is because the tier list is old and outdated. Just like when shiek was in first and then everyone was like wait a second these space animals are pretty good. And someone can still counter someone even if they are ahead of them on the tier list so that logic is pretty much out the window. The advantage is slight though.

 

[kenny10]

Yeah. Those Ken v. PC matches is another great example on how a Marth has a slight advantage over a Falco even if he has lasers. It's pretty easy to dodge those lasers and Falco players don't really want to SHL into a Marth's face just to be killed by a tipper. That's one of Marth's biggest factors, the ability to kill just about anyone at a low percentage with a single tipper. Also, Falco has some good combos but they're easy to DI out of if you know what your doing.

 

[mood4food77]

ganon does better against peach, i think all pokes (jiggs may be an exception), zelda, luigi, ICs, and DK

they pretty much **** the rest of the low tiers, and falcon does better against most of the high tiers

roy against fox

roy is shine bait, his recovery sucks
roy can die easily off the top, he's not that much of a fastfaller (and weight has an effect of the percent it needs to kill off the top)
roy can't CG
roy's dtilt is easily CC
roy lacks kill moves
his DED is not as good as marth's, at most, you will only hit 3 times
roy can't edgegaurd fox like fox can edgegaurd roy
and fox can run circles around roy
also, roy's not the fastest thing in the world

roy dies easily, he's an easy character to shine spike, remember roy does have the worst recovery in the game

why roy gets pretty much ***** by fox

falco isn't easy for marth, but it's in marth's favor, more like 6-4

doc...what about him? anyone else know...XD

 

[REDRAGON]

roy against fox

roy is shine bait, his recovery sucks
roy can die easily off the top, he's not that much of a fastfaller (and weight has an effect of the percent it needs to kill off the top)
roy can't CG
roy's dtilt is easily CC
roy lacks kill moves
his DED is not as good as marth's, at most, you will only hit 3 times
roy can't edgegaurd fox like fox can edgegaurd roy
and fox can run circles around roy
also, roy's not the fastest thing in the world

roy dies easily, he's an easy character to shine spike, remember roy does have the worst recovery in the game

why roy gets pretty much ***** by fox

True his recovery sucks, but that by NO means makes his easy shine bait.......think about it..
Roy has average weight, but falls the 4th fastest making him die off the top hard(check your factsbefore saying stuff like that)
Roy can CG(I know its not as good as Marths, but he can it)
Roys dtilt is one of is great moves and used quite by the pros, who cares of it can be cc? IT rarely is, and its great for combos and smashes..
Roy DED is better then Marths because it has more power. Its speed and power, along with the fact that Fox cant really get out of it, makes it a GREAT killing move.
Roy edge guarding is great against Fox. The shine is great, but situational, while Roy has a move for every situation.
Fox is darn fast, but Roy has great running speed, great wd, great shffls, and longgrab range which all hurt Fox.

Roy does better then people think against Fox
case closed

 

[Binx]

For one of the first times I really do agree with redragon, Roy is at a disadvantage assuming both players know the matchup, and I have deffinately had an easier time shine spiking Roy than say Marth, but he doesnt do that poorly against fox. I pretty much replace the A button with the B button when I play roy and it works pretty well for me just spam tons of f-b and some down tilts with neatral airs and the occasional neatral b edgegaurd or counter edgegaurd and it makes it a pretty even matchup.

 

[mood4food77]

someone had a thread about vertical kills

i think he dies at a lower percent than samus does off the top, or around the same percent (Samus' fatness saves her)

 

[StripesOrBars]

I really think there should be one more tier list update.

There's a few things that need to be changed.

 

[mood4food77]

yes, there are, we need more tiers...i've suggested this since this one came out

 

[StripesOrBars]

Another tier would be perfect.

Something like this

TOP
Marth
Fox

TOP2
Falco
Shiek

HIGH
Peach
Falcon
Gannon
ICs

MIDDLE
Samus
Jiggz
Doc
Luigi
Mario

LOW
Link
DK
Ness
Pika
Young Link
G&W

GARBAGE
Yoshi
Zelda
Roy
Bowser
Mew2
Pichu
Kirby

 

[mood4food77]

i was thinking

top:
fox
marth
sheik

upper:
falco
peach
ICs
falcon

high:
samus
ganon
doc
mario
jiggs

mid:
DK
luigi
link

low:
y. link
pika
roy

lower:
g&w
yoshi
ness
zelda

bottom:
bowser
mewtwo
pichu
kirby

 

[Aesir]

^ I disagree with that list so much its not even funny. >_>

You have to set guidelines on what your list is is measuring you can't just pop out a list without any backing towards it. Why on doodahs list is Marth top tier but on yours its Fox. You have to have some sort of guideline like either A. Tourney results B. human potential.

Something like that. <_<

I think if you were basing it off of, the current metagame it would be Marth Fox for top. But if you were going off human potential, it wuold probably be Sheik marth.

 

[Del Money]

i agree with mood4food77 except for Dk being above link. unless there is no particular order to that list

 

[ZoSo]

Sadly, the current tier list made more sense when there was a God Tier.

Case in point: Falcon is not a Middle Tier character.

TOP:

Fox
Marth
Falco
Sheik

UPPER:

Peach
ICs
Falcon

HIGH:

Samus
Ganondorf
Jiggs
Doc
Mario

MIDDLE:

DK
Luigi
Link

LOW:

Pikachu
Young Link
Roy

LOWER:

Ness
Zelda
Yoshi
G&W

BOTTOM:

Bowser
Mewtwo
Pichu
Kirby