frotaz37
Smash Lord
Oh yeah, cause you can see into the future.
He will probably do well untill people take a step back, examine his game and say "Oh wait, it's just DK....." and then destroy him.
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The 2006-2008 Tier list
- Thread starter Mic_128
- Start date
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He will probably do well untill people take a step back, examine his game and say "Oh wait, it's just DK....." and then destroy him.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
fair enuf we'll see =)
mog112
Smash Ace
his first reason is very much correct. People do see a character doing well, or they see the teir list and pick their characters based on this. While this is not a bad idea, i feel to much emphasis has been placed on the differences of characters skills in the teirs.
When any melee character is played close to their potential, the difference between the characters is very small. Even the difference between fox and g&w is really not that much when played at higher levels. Hopefully more people will realize this.
Samochan
Smash Master
Bum already got destroyed, by Jash's Y.link. I even have vid and tourney placings ect. if you don't believe me.
The reason why Bum lost was because he couldn't handle the spam Jash did to him. Dk is such a big target it's harder to miss than to hit him, then proceed to combo the big guy. But clearly this doesn't mean Y.link should be up, just cause Jash beat Bum. And clearly Bum is taking full advantage of the combos DK can do to fast fallers so he can win tournaments, but since y.link is no fast faller, he can't really be comboed with anything DK does and YL combos DK with everything. Not to mention most stages are more in favour of y.link than DK.
Anyways, DK might do brutal comboes to some higher tier cast, but if he can't do the same to lower tiers and floathers and gets destroyed by them, then in my opinnion he should stay where he is.
I
i8waffles612
Guest
Really, dont yell at me for this:
What is the tier-list???
What is the tier-list???
straight8
Banned via Warnings
The charcters in order of how good they usually are...
I think y. link should be higher, and so should c. falcon.
And ganondorf should be lower.
I think y. link should be higher, and so should c. falcon.
And ganondorf should be lower.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
You have four hundred posts... and this topic is about the tier list... if you're not being sarcastic then you really don't belong here >_> IT'S ON THE FIRST PAGE OF THE TOPIC.
arrowhead
Smash Ace
according to the current metagame at which the tier list was made
And tournament placings are taking into account.
Aesir
Smash Master
we should all stop talking about this since the meta game is like shifting again! its like the world!!! =O
Wilhelmsan
Smash Lord
I still think that Samus and Ice Climbers should trade places.
Demenise
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 22, 2007
- Messages
- 498
Ness should be in a higher tier. He's WAY too good. He's got one of the best throws in the game, his bat is the 8th most powerful horizontal smash, and his PK Flash is teh pwnage when it comes to edge guarding against light characters/slow fallers.
Form thine own opinions. Just because Mew2King plays Marth doesn't mean Marth is automatically better than Sheik and Falco.
True, but it helps my opinions....
I really think Sheik time is up.
She has little potential and she is so well known. Down with Sheik!!!
True, but it helps my opinions....
I really think Sheik time is up.
She has little potential and she is so well known. Down with Sheik!!!
So Sheik is easy to win with at any level, but she has little potential....? One or the other might be true, or none of them are.
Kirby is pretty terrible against the majority of the environment. Marth really loves comboing Kirby, Fox and Falco's strong KOs mess with Kirby... and Kirby only has a soft counter against Sheik. There are several pro Kirby players out there, but not enough to put him at a higher tier, unfortunately.
At the peak of here potential(which is small) she is good, even one of the best. But people are seeing how to play her and finding her flaws. Also even at her peak she is easy to use.
Thats how i see it.
Smooth_One
Smash Ace
How can you say her peak is small, yet one of the best? Contradiction, perhaps?
Yeah, Sheik's easy to use, but so are Falco and Peach. That doesn't matter in a friggin' tier list.
Yeah, Sheik's easy to use, but so are Falco and Peach. That doesn't matter in a friggin' tier list.
ElChibo
Smash Apprentice
I think that the tier list needs to change a little bit soon. First, I think Marth needs to move into the top tier, if not #1 seeing his edgeguarding against space animals. What really changed my mind was watching M2K against PC Chris at events like Evo 2k7. I also think that Peach should be considered for being higher than Shiek, but that's a real close one. As a quick note for bottom tier, I think Ness is better than Game and Watch. While GaW shuffles are awesome, his shield is terrible and tons of attacks can hit right through it.
ElChibo
Smash Apprentice
I also forgot to mention, if Wobbling becomes banned at tournaments, Ice Climbers should be bumped down a bit, perhaps to middle tier.
ICs already are in mid-tier... they're just really high up in it right now. And they were placed there before Wobbles became termed, I think.
Marth can definitely edgeguard spacies, but then, he's a known counterpick to them... Edgeguarding is only one of many punishing things Marth can do to Fox and Falco. The problem is in Fox's ability to deal with it and more or less even the game against Marth, and Sheik players giving some trouble as well. Peach is VERY hard to bring to a high level of play, and I've not seen many of them place that high in tournaments compared to Sheik. What is your reasoning for Peach being moved up?
G&W has a really gimpy shield, but Ness doesn't have quite the popularity... I'm guessing that was the only thing that placed him above Ness, so I have no argument against the two being switched.
Marth can definitely edgeguard spacies, but then, he's a known counterpick to them... Edgeguarding is only one of many punishing things Marth can do to Fox and Falco. The problem is in Fox's ability to deal with it and more or less even the game against Marth, and Sheik players giving some trouble as well. Peach is VERY hard to bring to a high level of play, and I've not seen many of them place that high in tournaments compared to Sheik. What is your reasoning for Peach being moved up?
G&W has a really gimpy shield, but Ness doesn't have quite the popularity... I'm guessing that was the only thing that placed him above Ness, so I have no argument against the two being switched.
Her peak IS small yet one of the best....
Why do you think everyone agrees that Sheik is the most easy to use???
Her simple combos and moves are easy but very effective. At least they used to be.
Imo sheik easy combos which used to be great are fading away.......
My thoughts.
Wilhelmsan
Smash Lord
Playing Sheik at her full potential requires just as much skill as any other character, maybe more.
The poster above me does not know what they're talking about.
EDIT: no offense or anything
The poster above me does not know what they're talking about.
EDIT: no offense or anything
WHAT IS HARD ABOUT SHEIK????
All her grab combos are easy.
Her ftilt to fair is THE EASIEST FINISHER in the game!!!
Her edguarding is on the easy side.
The needles are on the easy side
Her l-canceling is easy(IMO)
Wavedash is easy(Different but easy)
Chaingrab is easy
I know her dashdance is on the hard side but thats it!!!
Please tell me what is hard about her???
Tell me, why isn't every single MLG and EVO tournament dominated by Sheik dittos?
Smooth_One
Smash Ace
Easiest to play/learn doesn't mean easiest to win.
the CRAB
Smash Cadet
sheik is falling out of the race. that's all there is to it. the tiers are based on results, not favortisim, and opinions arent going to change them. as smooth said, easy to play doesnt mean you're gonna win. when sheiks start winning again, she'll move up.
there's just not much point (IMHO) in debating the tiers seeing as they're based on tourney standings. if you want luigi, sheik, etc to get a higher ranking, go out and win some. and more power to you, and congrats if you make it happen. if you, or others dont, however, i just cant see a point in arguing the standings for what they are.
there's just not much point (IMHO) in debating the tiers seeing as they're based on tourney standings. if you want luigi, sheik, etc to get a higher ranking, go out and win some. and more power to you, and congrats if you make it happen. if you, or others dont, however, i just cant see a point in arguing the standings for what they are.
Randizzle
Smash Ace
On the higher levels of play technical ability doesn't really matter that much anymore. A lot of people can do pretty much everything technically. It comes down to good mindgames, experience, and play style. Sheik can't rely on tech skill nearly as easily as fox and falco. For that reason, she can be pretty tough to play.
But starting off and learning, there's no doubt that sheik is easy.
But starting off and learning, there's no doubt that sheik is easy.
No, not really. Maybe it's just me, but you keep giving two extremes of opinion on Sheik, both contradicting each other and both wrong. You claim Sheik is cheap and easy to play and win with at any level, then you turn around and say that Sheik has little potential and shouldn't be as high in the tier list as she is, then you again say that she has all these auto-win combos and attacks that clearly make her broken.
Smooth_One
Smash Ace
Actually Ankoku (alliteration w00t) it's not just you.
;_; It seems Falcon isn't going anywhere good. He does too bad against Fox, Falco, and Sheik; and his match-ups against Marth and Peach are debatable.
Personally I say he has a small advantage on Marth, and loses just as much to Peach. I might get into specifics later hopefully.
;_; It seems Falcon isn't going anywhere good. He does too bad against Fox, Falco, and Sheik; and his match-ups against Marth and Peach are debatable.
Personally I say he has a small advantage on Marth, and loses just as much to Peach. I might get into specifics later hopefully.
Wilhelmsan
Smash Lord
I stand by what I said.
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
Well, there are two things to consider. Shiek's technical game is, you must realize, relatively simple in comparison to someone like Falco or Fox. Yet, what comes after that is what makes any character more difficult, the application. Your ability to exploit their strengths and use them properly.
arrowhead
Smash Ace
ice climbers
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
Ness is horrible. His bthrow is nice but he has the 2nd worst grab range in the game. His fsmash is slow. The power of it doesn't quite make up for that, or else Bowser would be higher. And no, PK Flash is actually pretty worthless.
I think I agree with most of the other stuff you said, but it seriously boggles my mind that anyone continues to perpetuate this insane myth, which as far as I can tell is based on an extremely old video (like 2004 status) of Isai's Kirby almost beating Ken's Sheik. I personally think Kirby is the worst character in the game, and I'm a big Kirby fan even.
Kirby does not do well against Sheik.
Randizzle
Smash Ace
kirby is tough to grab when crouching and has options with crouch canceling and not especially easy to gimp. Those are a few things that are good to have against sheik, but kirby is by no means a counter to sheik in any way and still dies very easily to sheik's KO moves. I don't play kirby, nor have i played any really good players that main kirby so perhaps somehow can correct me on this.
I agree. Kirby doesn't do well against Sheik. He has certain things that make it harder for Sheik to kill him, but at the same time, he's easy to kill. I'm only assuming that the myth is accepted by the masses, since apparently phanna hasn't been bothered enough to change the matchup.
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