Ess oh Aytch
Smash Ace
... Wow. Falco is way more solid than Marth, pretty much dominating tons of match-ups. Okay, so your defense on Samus being higher than Falcon and Ice Climbers is her recovery?
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The 2006-2008 Tier list
- Thread starter Mic_128
- Start date
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StripesOrBars
Smash Master
controlfreak7
Smash Ace
Notice how he said all you play in tournaments are top tiers, that is the exact problem with the tier list being based primarily off tourney results. You basically will only see top tier characters and it is very likely you won't see a character like mewtwo at major tourneys (which I'm pretty sure are the only ones that count) so how do we know where mewtwo places on the tier list along with a bunch of other characters you probably won't see and if you do very little.
Let me ask you something if all you ever saw at a major tourney was one Mewtwo and the Mewtwo did horrible do you just put Mewtwo at bottom of bottom cause of how that mewtwo placed? If this is the case than the tier list is a major assumption. Perhaps the reason falco and fox place so high in tourneys is cause there are so many of them that they are basically going against themselves. If mewtwo has more better matchups than pichu than he should be higher than pichu. If pichu places higher no matter the circumstance I think he is "better" than mewtwo. But in tourneys you still see a lot of peaches, marths, captain falcons. So does this mean Pichu does better against these characters as well?
smashfan34
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2006
- Messages
- 187
Tier list 2007.
Here is the true "tier list" (perhaps you'll adopt it in 2007).
Fox > Everyone, if that players skill is > everyone else.
Fox<Everyone, if that players skill is < everyone else.
Link>Everyone, if this player's skill is > everyone else.
Link< Everyone, if this players skill is < everyone else.
falco>everyone, if this player's skill is > everyone else.
falco<everyone, if that player's skill is < everyone else.
etc. 23 more times.
Look, I know someone that is insane with melee, and I used to determine if they were good by who they play with. And he said mewtwo and I laughed, never again will I determine if a player sucks by what character they use. As far as showing which characters the top players use most, I don't have a problem with that. But it should be called top tournament character results, not tier list.
Here is the true "tier list" (perhaps you'll adopt it in 2007).
Fox > Everyone, if that players skill is > everyone else.
Fox<Everyone, if that players skill is < everyone else.
Link>Everyone, if this player's skill is > everyone else.
Link< Everyone, if this players skill is < everyone else.
falco>everyone, if this player's skill is > everyone else.
falco<everyone, if that player's skill is < everyone else.
etc. 23 more times.
Look, I know someone that is insane with melee, and I used to determine if they were good by who they play with. And he said mewtwo and I laughed, never again will I determine if a player sucks by what character they use. As far as showing which characters the top players use most, I don't have a problem with that. But it should be called top tournament character results, not tier list.
DarkKnight077
Smash Lord
Mud if you wanted correct you may as you wish but don't go attacking me..I bet you have not been in a tourney yourself. So your tier list is just bunch of nonsense. Mewtwo is better than emo-chu any day. Mewtwo has a much better grab game than Pichu. But since it's based on results how they do..then it's not important is it? Also besides..The tier list is also based how many people play with each character. Why do you think Fox and Falco are way up there..because thousands play with them or not millions.
ChozenOne
Smash Champion
He's only posted Since the beggining of Augest but teh man speaks truth..
Smashfan's Brain > Everyone, since Smashfan's Brain > Everyone Else
Mud Buddha < Everyone, since Mud Buddha's Brain < Everyone Else
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
ChozenOne
Smash Champion
Mindgames is skill >_>
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
ChozenOne
Smash Champion
No... mindgames and skill are the same.. When you talk about people like Drephen, and Dope do you say.. "dang, those guys have mad skills..." or do you say "dang, those guys have no skill, but amazing mindgames"
DarkKnight077
Smash Lord
...Mind games are not skill they just happen. Skill take takes some time to devlop.
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
Please stop.
Anyone with any form of tournament experience knows the difference between skill and mind games.
ChozenOne
Smash Champion
Technical skill and skill are two different things. Skill is a combination of Mindgames+Technical skill, that is why people specify the difference between skill and technical skill. With Mindgames comes technical skill, and vice versa.
ChaosKnight
Smash Master
Chozen >< wtf you know skill and mind games are diffrent.....
Anyone with Enough tourney experince knows this
Anyone with Enough tourney experince knows this
ChozenOne
Smash Champion
Technical Skill+Mindgames... Yes. Skill overall... No. Don't try to tell me i don't have enough tournament experience.. You've only been to one more tournament than me. and we have been to quite a few. <_<
StripesOrBars
Smash Master
ChozenOne
Smash Champion
Yes, they are both part of this game all the same, however they together make up one's overall skill. There is also a limit to one's mindgames as well, no one has just reached it yet..
DarkKnight077
Smash Lord
Mind games are never the same that's why they are called "mind games". It's stragety it requires no skill it just happens in the match. If you have an approach and it does not work then change it. That's why mind games>>>skill.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
And since when has strategy not required skill, in any game?
ChozenOne
Smash Champion
Good man *gives thumbs up*
DarkKnight077
Smash Lord
Well let's see um Tetris? Ummm Mario, DKC. Racing game.
REØ
Smash Lord
Tetris requires skill.
DarkKnight077
Smash Lord
Really?..Meh I didn't after level 99. =/
Inferno_blaze
Smash Lord
Strategy always requires skill, have you ever played RTS? The whole point of the game is to hav e a strategy, you plan ahead to say if I spend X amount of power on this units I will at this point have enough power for S unit allowing me to attack both flanks of the enemy wit hfull force, what you have said makes no sense of course you can adapt a strategy, that's nothing to do with mindgaming it still ivolves skill. Say on smash I could run forward luring him into an attack at which pint i can wd backward then forward agin into a dsmash which will knock him off the dge then you move onto a edgegaurding stategy, mingaming is part of the strategy, you form a strategy on what you thnk your oppenent will do.
Mighty Dogg
Smash Apprentice
I think that Marth and Falco should switch. Also Roy below DK? Roy's been doing better in tournys.
skill:
1. Proficiency, facility, or dexterity that is acquired or developed through training or experience.
There isn't a compeditive game that doesn't require skill.
i wish you were right. but if you were, every character would have a good chance. this only works if that player's skill is FAR greater than everyone else's. if skill is not far greater, than it only works for some characters.
Mighty Dogg
Smash Apprentice
True that is true uremog.
mcc
Smash Ace
anyone know japan's tier list?
Vicioustale
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
- Messages
- 4
just gonna add my two cents here, dunno if anyone really cares, my main game is Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike anyways. Anyway, a tier list shouldn't be based off of tournament results, if you ask me that's just ********. If you base a tier list off of tournament results you're ranking people not the characters. Even though when i look at that list it doesn't seem too far from the truth, Fox and Falco own that is a fact, but it should be based on how many favorable matchups each character has for example, from my experience i see that Marth,Fox,Falco,Shiek, and Peach don't really have any bad matchups, maybe each other but that's about it they seem pretty even to me. Falcon actually shouldn't be so high because if he faces someone who knows how to keep him on tabs he gets stomped if that character has even a low level edge guard. Samus is **** good, well placed missiles seem like free damage, your opponent will at least get hit by one trying to get to you+bomb jump recovery. Jiggs is crazy, she should be pretty **** high, with combos into rest and what not.
Link isn't that bad, he's got good edgeguard(dtilt,upB,dair), Ganon is a beast if used properly, better than falcon? I would say so call me dumb, but they both got crappy recovery because they can't hit their opponent unless their opponent is too close to the edge, and they get edgeguarded, and i think the only two things Falcon has over ganon are the knee and speed. But Ganon's strength is just ****.... your opponent can keep you away the whole stock and then you can come back in a single combo. But I'm a noob what do i know? I just don't see whats so good about Falcon,Doc, and Mario, everyone else is fine where they are except Link who shouldn't be low tier, he's a solid middle if you ask me, mind games with his speacials pwn and UpB isn't even that hard to land, so Link higher and someone explain Falcon and the Marios' greatness to me. And stop ranking people and start ranking the characters based on matchups make it Top 5 in no order and whoever else, maybe shiek at the bottom of the top 5 'cause i think i heard she does bad against Kirby? so she's got one bad matchup while the other top 5 have 0.
Link isn't that bad, he's got good edgeguard(dtilt,upB,dair), Ganon is a beast if used properly, better than falcon? I would say so call me dumb, but they both got crappy recovery because they can't hit their opponent unless their opponent is too close to the edge, and they get edgeguarded, and i think the only two things Falcon has over ganon are the knee and speed. But Ganon's strength is just ****.... your opponent can keep you away the whole stock and then you can come back in a single combo. But I'm a noob what do i know? I just don't see whats so good about Falcon,Doc, and Mario, everyone else is fine where they are except Link who shouldn't be low tier, he's a solid middle if you ask me, mind games with his speacials pwn and UpB isn't even that hard to land, so Link higher and someone explain Falcon and the Marios' greatness to me. And stop ranking people and start ranking the characters based on matchups make it Top 5 in no order and whoever else, maybe shiek at the bottom of the top 5 'cause i think i heard she does bad against Kirby? so she's got one bad matchup while the other top 5 have 0.
DrizzitDudden
Smash Rookie
@Vicious I agree with some of the things you say, but saying it isn't in any way going to make anybody change their mind about it. I think it would be cool if they at least changed the name of this list to something about tournament rankings and then have the "tier list" be about character advantages. It's true that the current tier list is about who is doing good with whatever character, but if more and more falcos are winning, then it seems he is better. That is kinda contradictory but I'm a very neutral person on a lot of things. So honestly I don't care. I just like to play the game and the tier list doesn't affect my playing in any way.
controlfreak7
Smash Ace
So in conclusion the tier list is a list of characters from best to worst. I'm not sure why people don't try to go that far, but in the end its true. How can I play someone beat them dozens of times and just because they beat me once I no longer have the power to say I am better than them? It isn't that I do better against them or do better than them, I AM BETTER THAN THEM. Same goes with tiers, its avoided for some reason I dunno why and it took me a while to realize but its true.
If Fox and Falco do the best, that means they are the best and whoever can do well against them is considered to do better than those who don't so in the end those that do better against them are better because they do better against the best of the best. (That was a lot of bests and betters =P)
Anyways how in the ****ing world do mindgames not require skill, if you say that you are basically saying that pros aren't pros. They are just really lucky their mindgames work. Skill = mindgames and techs.
If Fox and Falco do the best, that means they are the best and whoever can do well against them is considered to do better than those who don't so in the end those that do better against them are better because they do better against the best of the best. (That was a lot of bests and betters =P)
Anyways how in the ****ing world do mindgames not require skill, if you say that you are basically saying that pros aren't pros. They are just really lucky their mindgames work. Skill = mindgames and techs.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
the tier list looks pretty **** perfect to me... except for perhaps roy over dk but then again who cares... that's one spot.
i don't get all the fuss over tiers. they exist because the characters are different, xD.
vicious, it's not based on tournament results. it may look that way, but the characters are where they are because of the people who play best with them.
anyways, mindgames over matter. all hail taj's mewtwo
i don't get all the fuss over tiers. they exist because the characters are different, xD.
vicious, it's not based on tournament results. it may look that way, but the characters are where they are because of the people who play best with them.
anyways, mindgames over matter. all hail taj's mewtwo
NDigighost
Smash Apprentice
Mud Buddha
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2005
- Messages
- 518
What the **** is this? Do you think you're "cool" enough to get away without actually posting anything of substance ? It's not funny, no one else here thinks it's funny. Please stop.
Because other types of matches. However little it may be, it still gives an impression of how well they fare. The point that you have made is exactly why they are harder to place than the top bunch.
This my point exactly.
Dude, what? I've shown several times the bredth of my knowledge, and you still want to come to that? Why did you even post that? As far as I can recall I haven't ever done anything to make you want to lash out at me.
This thread has degraded into tripe. There will always be people who come into threads and don't give justification behind their posts. Sigh.
controlfreak7
Smash Ace
I don't disagree with the tier list I disagree with how people say its based off tourney results when it is actually based only on how good characters are.
Eggz
Smash Hero
I actually find him pretty **** hilarious. >_>MudBuddah said:
On the Pichu and Mewtwo debate-
Both characters are pieces of ****, and its pretty pointless debating their placement. I mean they are basically obsolete anyway, and only non conformists argue otherwise. They are garbage. End of story. Probably equally so. Nuff said.
Inferno_blaze
Smash Lord
The main reason it's not based on how good characters are is the lower half of the tier list, those charaters are mainly based on how well they do agasin't the highest characters (which everyone plays). Someone playing Bowser may be able to own someone playing Yoshi or G&W but they will do far worse against someone playing fox than yoshi or G&W. This is how it is based of tournament results and why when people complain that character A is better than character B it doesn't matter because it's how they've done in tourneys, it may have been that for the past year only crap links have entered tourneys so it's lower it's got nothing to do with how good acharacter is unless you look at the top of the list and even then it's still not perfect.
Mud Buddha
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2005
- Messages
- 518
It is based on tournaments. See post 8 of this thread.
Well it kind of holds true for third strike..
Top three characters, yun, chun, ken..
At sbo that was the top team.
At evo we had 4 yun, 3 chun, and a ken. and 2 yun taking top two... results... proof it.
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