The 2006-2008 Tier list

[NDigighost]

If popo was in the tierlist, where would you reckon he'd be?

 

[Inferno_blaze]

he wouldn't be it's based on tournament results and popo doesn't compete in tournaments as a character, the iceclimbers name encompasses how well he does.

 

[NDigighost]

I guess the words reckon and if don't translate to well

IF popo was in the tierlist (condition) where would he be?
the question is asking you to provide an answer of where would IF he was in the tierlist, saying that he is not in it is not even an answer, and is incorrect.

Let's say I ask you this:
If water was lighter then air how do you think we would get our drinking water?
Would this be a valid answer?
"Water is not lighter than air"

It certainly would not. I suggest you read my post, It's not too long...

I will explain in further detail:
If, hypothetically, the Ice Climbers slot would be replaced with Popo with the exact same moveset, how well would he have done in tournaments and where would he have been on the tier list?

Clear enough?

 

[Mud Buddha]

Lower, that much is clear. But by how much is difficult to say. Just below Luigi I reckon.

(I'm basing this on my tierlist, not SBR's)

 

[Inferno_blaze]

I guess the words reckon and if don't translate to well

IF popo was in the tierlist (condition) where would he be?
the question is asking you to provide an answer of where would IF he was in the tierlist, saying that he is not in it is not even an answer, and is incorrect.

Let's say I ask you this:
If water was lighter then air how do you think we would get our drinking water?
Would this be a valid answer?
"Water is not lighter than air"

It certainly would not. I suggest you read my post, It's not too long...

I will explain in further detail:
If, hypothetically, the Ice Climbers slot would be replaced with Popo with the exact same moveset, how well would he have done in tournaments and where would he have been on the tier list?

Clear enough?

I was stating that it's not possible for him to be incorporated into THIS tier list as it's based on tournament results, iwasn't offensive in anyway and didn't expect such an arrogant answer. Mud buddha there has a fine post as he is basing it on his tier list. If you would like to make a tier list then ask, feel free. Just because you posted so arrogantly I will not reply to your now correct statement that did not mean what you originaly said, no matter how you look at it.

 

[NDigighost]

sorry mate, I misunderstood you, thought you were Being an AH...

By translation, I meant translation, only now I see yout from the UK, I honestly thought you might not know the expression reckon (I'm probably even typing it wrong).

When I said if i meant it as a programming condition, I thought you might use it as a question about the assumption as well, my first sentence was not sarcastic, simply... silly.

Why do I want to know? not just curiousity, were thinking of allowing popo in small low-tier tournys (He would have a big diadvantage in having to give up his invincibility to lose nana). losing nana is quite easy, airdodge over the edge, nana dies popo grabs.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

popo in low tier touneys eh? Well for some reason I find it easier (at least with boozer) to fight them both at once. Also, if water was lighter than air we'd probably drink air (if air was made heavier). if air wasn't made heavier then water would simply be on the boundries of the atmosphere and there fore we'd have to send ships up to collect it but by that ppoint we'd all be dead anyway unless we drank milk, the moral of this story is drink more milk.

 

[NJzFinest]

anyone know japan's tier list?

It was posted on the earlier pages

 

[Wuss]

popo in low tier touneys eh? Well for some reason I find it easier (at least with boozer) to fight them both at once. Also, if water was lighter than air we'd probably drink air (if air was made heavier). if air wasn't made heavier then water would simply be on the boundries of the atmosphere and there fore we'd have to send ships up to collect it but by that ppoint we'd all be dead anyway unless we drank milk, the moral of this story is drink more milk.

Im confuzed

 

[Inferno_blaze]

I think you'll find it's chicken in a bowl!

 

[mcc]

the japanese tier list was from a while back and wasn't official

 

[Skyshroud]

I asked for it the first time. Yeah, it was an estimation of Japan's tiers. If you want to look at it, go to page 3 (it's post #42). It is pretty much the same as ours, just with a little shuffling.

 

[controlfreak7]

But then there is the question wouldn't you say that characters that do better against better characters are better than characters that do better against not so good characters? So basically it can still be considered a list from best to worst.

 

[Skyshroud]

Not neccessarily. The tier list is subject to a lot of change depending on what people use at tournaments. Let's just say, for all intensive purposes, that ICs counter Sheik. Now, if the number of IC players starts rising a lot, Sheik should be played less, and therefore moves down on the latter, along with the ICs rising. With ICs being more popular and Sheik less popular, other characters are going to shift around as well. Remember this is hypothetical.

So, the tier list isn't really about whose good and whose bad, though that does affect it somewhat. I would consider it more of a metagame, and it reacts to the choices made within it.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

For example ojn character might mop the floor with al lof the bottom half of the tier list but then do badly against those at the top (who are the ones most played) and therefore ar eplaced lower than a ton of characters they can beat.

 

[flaco]

omg god why is peach on high tier bull****.I just dont like peach I main marth but I just dont like them.With them tulips I know no jons.

 

[Skyshroud]

It's not based on who you do/don't like...

 

[flaco]

Is not that I dont like them is that they give me a hard time to beat.Well peach is a good character to be on the high tier,I will try to learn who to use her.

 

[blaksheap82]

Okay, first I forgot to quote this...

the japanese don't gather around in forums and make tier lists, they just own. That's what makes them japanese.
The closest thing to a japanese tier list we ever got was from conversations between jesusfreak and captain jack, remember that this is some dated stuff:

Yeah good point. He also says Link should be upper.

This is an approximation from what I've gathered from talking to him:

GOD
Fox

Top
Sheik
Marth
Peach
Falco

Upper
Falcon
Samus
Jiggly
Link
ICs

High
Ganon
Mario
Doc

Mid
Roy
Pika
Luigi
Yoshi
DK
Ness

Low
Y Link
Kirby
Zelda
G&W

Bottom
Bowser
Pichu
Mewtwo

Now this isn't probably 100% accurate, I wasn't sure where to place the marios, Ness, or Y Link. I based those decisions on some of the things he's said, some Japanese videos, and a little bit of my own opinion. But overall this is what he's told me.

I didn't get a chance to earlier, but I wanted to point out something about this list. One, I prefer more levels to the current number, mostly because it puts Link at bottom. Yes, it's at the top of the bottom, but that's like being king of the losers club. Second, what do the Japanese do differently with Link that others don't, at least in the US? I actually only have two Marth VS Link vids, a Ken VS Germ and a Isai VS Husband, and in both Link wins. Link's slow jumping and fast falling are definitely major cons, but the good outweighs that. Versatile recovery, projs rivaled only by Samus that can **** a Fox or Falco's recovery (especially Falco's), several killmoves (yes, I know, his usmash isn't very reliable, but there are plenty of others), a nair that stops cold even Doc's upb for edgeguarding. He can even be hard to edgeguard becuse of his projs, if used correctly. Yes, he has tremendous lag compared to Shiek, Fox, and Falco, but Ganon has more, and no projs, so what puts Ganon higher than Link? (Albeit, now it's only one spot, but it used to be higher.) Looking at the list again, only half of the chars in the top three tiers have projs (not counting Fox, because his doesn't stun; you could shoot someone all you want, and it wouldn't do anything to stop a smash to the face). Isai won the match due to the projs almost more than anything, and actually Germ's win was really kind of a fluke in a friendly, but it was still due to Link's recovery (and it was pretty funny, too). I suppose it's like King said, the tiers measure what's being done with each char in the metagame. But we've seen what Germ and HDL have done, so that brings me (the long way) back to what I was originally wondering: what do the Japanese do differently with Link? Something tells me I shouldn't be suprised if it has something to do with CJ using DK (unless the person who posted that earlier was just kidding).

 

[controlfreak7]

Not neccessarily. The tier list is subject to a lot of change depending on what people use at tournaments. Let's just say, for all intensive purposes, that ICs counter Sheik. Now, if the number of IC players starts rising a lot, Sheik should be played less, and therefore moves down on the latter, along with the ICs rising. With ICs being more popular and Sheik less popular, other characters are going to shift around as well. Remember this is hypothetical.

So, the tier list isn't really about whose good and whose bad, though that does affect it somewhat. I would consider it more of a metagame, and it reacts to the choices made within it.

Well you made a point there, I suppose, but the thing is that is a counterpick and I don't think counterpicks in terms of having a few minor or one major would greatly effect how good a character is. In this case Sheik is a good character who gets owned by a character lower on the list, but how are there other matchups, who does better against other higher tier characters or in this case any character in general.

And this example of how often a character is chosen proves that the tier list is still based on something other than how well a character does in a tournament. If it is not best to worse then it must be who is the most chosen.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Not neccessarily. The tier list is subject to a lot of change depending on what people use at tournaments. Let's just say, for all intensive purposes, that ICs counter Sheik. Now, if the number of IC players starts rising a lot, Sheik should be played less, and therefore moves down on the latter, along with the ICs rising. With ICs being more popular and Sheik less popular, other characters are going to shift around as well. Remember this is hypothetical.

So, the tier list isn't really about whose good and whose bad, though that does affect it somewhat. I would consider it more of a metagame, and it reacts to the choices made within it.

Wrong.

People play Shiek(Fox falco marth peach) at tournaments cuz she's good vs every character in the game. Save for a few EVEN(not counters) matchups in Fox Falco and close to counters in the marios.

The same goes with the rest of the upper half of the tier list. People play them cu thier better than the rest of the characters.

If everyone started playing ICs, then Shiek players would have a secondary for beating ICs.

Probably Marth Fox or Peach.

All of which are top tiers.

 

[Dr.ROC]

Its based on how well ppl who play that char. in tourneys do. One char. isn't better than any other its all about style, it just happens to be that most ppl like the marth, peach, falco, fox, shiek attack method more than for say, mewtwo or pikachu/pichu.

 

[DuKe™]

C. Falcon Just doesnt seem like mid tier material

 

[Inferno_blaze]

You're still ignoring the point though that sheik would drop down the ladder because she would played less and her secondary would be played more.

 

[controlfreak7]

Yes and the problem there is you assume that less sheiks would start playing if there were more ICs. Then you would have to assume that ICs' counters would be played less cause that would have to be the case in order for ICs to become more common.

Anyways it is true and I'll admit the fact that the tierlist is constantly changing, but that just may be because opinion has. I personally think that falco and fox made it up there because they did so well in tournaments, but that was as a result of them being the best characters.

Plus lets assume someone asked a question.

Why are fox and falco top on the tiers? Because they do the best in tourneys. Why? what would you say? I'd assume in that situation someone would either say because they are the best or that they are most commonly chosen. Then someone would ask why they were most commonly chosen or why they were the best? Then if you answered chosen most commonly you would probably say they were the best and if you had answered they were the best before you would say they have the greatest move set and techs. The questions would just go on and on.

I'm just curious to find out who is used most often in tourneys do you actually take real tourney statistics?

O btw what is the use of the tierlist?

 

[Inferno_blaze]

It never really had a use, just showed which characters' metagames have evolved the most recently and are therefore doing better in the current tourneys.

 

[StripesOrBars]

It never really had a use, just showed which characters' metagames have evolved the most recently and are therefore doing better in the current tourneys.

This is the first tier list that focused mainly on tourney results

 

[blaksheap82]

Look at King's post on page one. The gist of what he'd said is that the tiers this time around really measure a char's potential, the way Falco has moved up. Watch vids of Falco's from recent tournies compared to older ones. There's a marked difference; bombsoldier isn't the only one on the block with what he can do anymore, and even if he never was, then there a lot more in the neighborhood now. I just watched a couple of DaShizWiz's vids, and while I haven't seen a bombsoldier vid in a while, I can definitely say that DaShiz can at least compare. King said it's the same reason for why IC's moved up and Shiek moved down, that other chars' potential is being brought out, and Shiek's has mostly been used up. If someone innovates with Shiek (which I don't see happening much very soon), she could possibly move back up again, but right now other chars have moved past her with their potential.

 

[choknater]

C. Falcon Just doesnt seem like mid tier material

i agree... falcon's great. i think he's been put in mid because the difference between falcon and peach is pretty large, despite how good falcon is.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Captain Falcon gets owned by Fox. That's why he's mid tier.

 

[NJzFinest]

cfalcon was 6th in the old tier list...in this new one, he's still 6th....

wtf people

 

[StripesOrBars]

If it wasn't for fox and falco, c fal would be right under shiek.

 

[Mud Buddha]

If it weren't for Fox and Falco, everyone would have just two less bad matchups. That's all.

 

[leafgreen386]

If it weren't for Fox and Falco, everyone would have just two less bad matchups. That's all.

And when everyone plays Fox and Falco...

 

[Vasilicus]

Lmao, Roy is just as good as Marth, but nobody plays him.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Uh... sure...

 

[MagnuM]

Yay, the Bowser faithful are moving Bowser up the ranks!

Shouldn't this thread be stickied or something?

 

[leafgreen386]

Yay, the Bowser faithful are moving Bowser up the ranks!

Shouldn't this thread be stickied or something?

It gets enough replies it doesn't really need it.

 

[StripesOrBars]

If it weren't for Fox and Falco, everyone would have just two less bad matchups. That's all.

LOL I love ignorace.

The tier list is the way it is because of fox and falco.

Who does the best vs fox and falco??

Shiek, Marth and Peach.

Falcon can **** all 3 of them easily. His only real big problem is the space animals(and ICs but who plays ICs??).

 

[DarkKnight077]

Ice Climbers are that high because..of Chu no?