The 2006-2008 Tier list

[Aiser]

Yeah but in reality, FD isn't theonlystage you play on. Fox ***** marth on other stages and vise versa.

I think you misunderstood me, over all fox is a better character then Marth.
So how is marth over all a better character then fox? when fox has no counters yet marth technically does.

 

[Mew2King]

I don't think Fox is that great. The problem with Fox is his lack of priority compared to other characters. I've played Captain Jack countless times at OC2, and his Sheik beat my Fox most of the time we played, but I won a little over half our Sheik dittos. When Jack fights my Fox he controls spacing EXTREMELY well. He outprioritizes most of my attacks with his Fair, Bair, and even Forward Tilt (Sheik's Forward Tilt eats through Fox's Nair if spaced right). If I laser camp him then he charges needles, and shoots them to get me when I land, doing much more damage to me than I do to him. If I try to Nair him he usually short hops backwards and does Bair or Fair. He also smash DIs my up throw Uairs much of the time so he gets hardly any damage from it, and he tech chases me very well. After he down throws me, if he sees me tech roll he dash attacks in that direction, and combos me or tech chases me to death with much success. If I tech in place he does various things to mix it up, but the most common is to Jab me for just before I can attack him. If I don't Crouch Cancel this Jab, it's basically another free grab for Jack. If I DI his attacks toward the center of the stage, he often does a few tilts to a dashing Up Smash (me expecting him to Fair me off the stage like most Sheiks do, so I DI into him many times because of this)

Anyway the point is, Sheik does good on Fox on many stages. I think Fox does good on Poke Stad, FD, and Yoshis Story, while Sheik has the advantage on DL64, Battlefield, and FoD.

And no Fox does not **** Sheik it's a pretty even matchup contrary to popular belief.

While Fox doesn't have any real counters besides Falco (I don't care what you say PC Chris) he has a lot of pretty even matchups.

The top 4 characters in the tier list, Falco Fox Sheik Marth, are all within like 99% as good as each other basically. Arguing over who's better by 1% just so they can have an excuse if they lose a matchup with them by that 1% advantage being the reason they lost is stupid, but is also a big reason why the Tier list is so argued for many people.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Yeah but in reality, FD isn't theonlystage you play on. Fox ***** marth on other stages and vise versa.

I think you misunderstood me, over all fox is a better character then Marth.
So how is marth over all a better character then fox? when fox has no counters yet marth technically does.

Fox and Marth are even. The most even match up in the game infact(then Shiek vs Fox).

As characters:

Fox has no counter, ***** all and can get rapped by everyone.

Marth has 1 semi counter, ***** all and doesn't get comboed to hell(except by Shiek[his counter] and Falcon).

Edit: Hooray for Mew2Kingzies.

 

[JUST A PIECE OF MEAT!!]

lol. u guys dont know doodah. if u only knew.lol

 

[StripesOrBars]

Hi lambchops!! Hows yur ****?

 

[JUST A PIECE OF MEAT!!]

good hows urs? lol. pathetic arguments. lol. there is one thing i know that there is no point in reasoning to people cause some people will never learn. yep that is the cold hard truth, lol doodah u haaate sheik.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Excellent.

Wanna smash?

 

[JUST A PIECE OF MEAT!!]

Excellent.

Wanna smash?

when and where?

 

[Aiser]

>_> you still don't get what I'm saying, but whatever no use arguing about it.

 

[JBM falcon08]

all fox has on marth is the shine, and the u-throw to constant uairs, usmash finishing blow,and it depends about the uair, if it even works since you can DI out of those to prevent damage.

but marth on the other hand, has chainthrows, easy tech chases, much more priority, and more range to benefit. also, he has a tipper which absolutely ***** fox.

 

[frotaz37]

I no longer consider Fox's up air to be a reason for him countering characters, simply because of Smash DI.

 

[frotaz37]

FC6: Falco
Smash AID: Shiek
MLG Orlando: C Fal (Ken's FOx and Marth got beat by KDJ and Isai's Shiek).

So you conclude from 3 tournaments that Fox and Marth don't win tournaments anymore...good point? -__-

Man I don't know why I even bother posting in this topic.

 

[NJ'zFinest]

So you conclude from 3 tournaments that Fox and Marth don't win tournaments anymore...good point? -__-

The tournaments he noted where the most recent large tournaments....so it was wrong for him to use an up to date source? -___-

Man I don't know why I even bother posting in this topic.

YES, good question bye

 

[The Blackstar]

The tournaments he noted where the most recent large tournaments....so it was wrong for him to use an up to date source? -___-

YES, good question bye

Don't be a douche. Yes, the were recent tournaments, but if you're going to make an argument like that, your data sample pool should be larger than 3 tournaments is what I'm sure he was saying.

You guys are all wrong, though. Luigi is the best character in this game. Specifically, Pimpin' Pink Luigi. The "Oh, so Icy"s are a close second.

 

[mcc]

if you're going to use tournament results as a reason, i think you should post the top 5 or something. like if it was 1.shiek and 2-5. fox, I would think the shiek would be an outlier or something

 

[Cinnamon]

As if anybody posting in here would change anything related to the tier list...

 

[StripesOrBars]

MLG Chicago- Marth

What other big recent tournaments have their been? exactly.

 

[NJ'zFinest]

Don't be a douche. Yes, the were recent tournaments, but if you're going to make an argument like that, your data sample pool should be larger than 3 tournaments is what I'm sure he was saying.

lol, you always think I'm beening a douche.
where's our black pride?

MLG Chicago- Marth

What other big recent tournaments have their been? exactly.

thank you Doodah

 

[Sighrax]

I think falcon is definitely getting more popular and maybe should move into high tier?
Considering MLG Orlando was won by Azen who played falcon against Chu's IC's (I don't know if this should REALLY count, considering it is Azen)... also with Darkrain and now Jiano and of course Isai and SS, Falcon players are starting to learn that Fox is no longer an impossible matchup. Falco, however, is still really tough.

Any thoughts of him maybe replacing peacH?

 

[NJ'zFinest]

I think falcon is definitely getting more popular and maybe should move into high tier?
Considering MLG Orlando was won by Azen who played falcon against Chu's IC's (I don't know if this should REALLY count, considering it is Azen)...

I seriously think that Azen is the only CFalcon who could beat Chu, he understands the match up better than anyone else. Azen is Azen, I wouldn't use him for any example. I mean, he uses everyone. You can basically say that Luigi, Pikachu, Link, and Zelda should be higher because Azen has done so good with them.

 

[Sighrax]

I seriously think that Azen is the only CFalcon who could beat Chu, he understands the match up better than anyone else. Azen is Azen, I wouldn't use him for any example. I mean, he uses everyone. You can basically say that Luigi, Pikachu, Link, and Zelda should be higher because of Azen has done so good with them.

Well, I was there to see that stuff in person, Azen played so much differently than any falcon I'd ever seen :X
That's why I had the parenthesis, but seriously, I think the top falcons are really showing the true potential of the manliest character in smash.
If he doesn't deserve a move up, I think Ganondorf definitely needs a boost in Mid Tier (to change topics if I'm wrong about Falcon )

"What the hell @ "starting to learn that Fox is no longer an impossible matchup". Can you elaborate on that lol? Give a solid example plz."

Basically I think it started at FC3 when Isai was thrown in against Darkrain and used fox as a try to basically counter Falcon. Considering how ridiculously easy it is to edgeguard falcon with fox, I think it's a ridiculously tough matchup, but watching lots and lots videos of Falcons that tech follow grab (which seems to be the best way to neutralize fox) can lead to a more even matchup. Still, I think fox has a LOT of priority, so reaction time from the falcon has to be insanely quick.

Shrug :/



Also yes I know peach > cfalcon, but I think that only applies when Falcon is off the stage. Peach gets dominated terribly and is easily combo'd.

 

[NJ'zFinest]

i have more to add on your other post

also with Darkrain and now Jiano and of course Isai and SS, Falcon players are starting to learn that Fox is no longer an impossible matchup. Falco, however, is still really tough.

What the hell @ "starting to learn that Fox is no longer an impossible matchup". Can you elaborate on that lol? Give a solid example plz.

Any thoughts of him maybe replacing peacH?

The best CFalcon player himself (Isai), thinks Peach should be even higher the where she is...
btw, Peach definately>CFalcon. She has a much better time vs Space Animals and she beats pretty much everyone below her on the list (except Link/YLink). I personally think that Peach does better on Sheik than CFalcon (because of the good argument some Peach players have), but I have to look more into that.

 

[Sighrax]

The best CFalcon player himself (Isai), thinks Peach should be even higher the where she is...
btw, Peach definately>CFalcon. She has a much better time vs Space Animals and she beats pretty much everyone below her on the list (except Link/YLink). I personally think that Peach does better on Sheik than CFalcon (because of the good argument some Peach players have), but I have to look more into that.

I think peach can also have a tough time against Luigi, but then again, Luigi does well against Falcon as well. Peach definitely does have several advantages that Falcon doesn't have against space animals in particular (dmash, easier edgeguarding, chain throw). I'm not sure about the sheik match either, I think both Peach and Falcon have a tough time.

 

[nameless_shadow]

IMO Ice Climbers aren't where they should be. They can fend off lots of characters. They should be top tier and no not just because Chu is good with them. I would like to try and bring the IC's best out as well. Also I believe Roy is being overlooked. He should be either middle or top tier. If Marth has reach and speed, Roy can match with strength and better repel. He can easily be made top or middle tier rather easily. But that's my thoughts as I do play him. And not to mention C.F. being middle tier. I'm ok with middle but he should be below IC's. That or put IC's on the bottom of top tier. And also, C.F. is probably where he should be. I agree Peach owns him but that doesn't mean she is always better. Anyone who will say that is completely ignorant and all around stupid. There is always a possibility given the player's abilities, for a lower rank character to beat someone above them. C.F. is not always beaten by Peach or Falco/Fox. Tiers are completely mis-understood. They are simply stating the popular vote and more commonly played characters. This doesn't always mean "this character owns that one because they're above the other". I hate when people assume stuff like that. Tiers are simple guidelines. I could easily say IC's are top tier and they can beat every character in the game. Doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Sighrax]

That's all pretty common knowledge here, nameless. Except for the Roy thing. He's good where he is, and has no place in top or middle tier due to his terrible air game and recovery.

 

[StripesOrBars]

Roy sucks. So does Batman.

 

[Sighrax]

Roy sucks. So does Batman.

I wonder if tippy is gonna make ganon move up the list

 

[NJ'zFinest]

Also I believe Roy is being overlooked. He should be either middle or top tier. .

That ruined your post. Roy is a horrible character.

I wonder if tippy is gonna make ganon move up the list

One person can't do that despite how good he may be (<3 Tipman). I mean, Ken *****... but is Marth first????

 

[Sighrax]

One person can't do that despite how good he may be (<3 Tipman). I mean, Ken *****... but is Marth first????

Chu Dat did it with Icy's Tipman is up in NY now for an undetermined period of time, and will be going to smashtality so go to it

What do you think about falcon though? The top falcon players are owning! I keep seeing falcons in finals for a lot of tournies, it's pretty sweet. I don't know. ;_; I just love him so much.

 

[NJ'zFinest]

Chu Dat did it with Icy's Tipman is up in NY now for an undetermined period of time, and will be going to smashtality so go to it

No...there where other IC players lol. Chu just stood out the most since he's at every large tournament....

What do you think about falcon though? The top falcon players are owning! I keep seeing falcons in finals for a lot of tournies, it's pretty sweet. I don't know. ;_; I just love him so much.

Isai uses Sheik for a reason. I haven't seen Darkrain and SS in finals recently.

 

[Sighrax]

No...there where other IC players lol. Chu just stood out the most since he's at every large tournament....

Isai uses Sheik for a reason. I haven't seen Darkrain and SS in finals recently.

Who, for IC? Trail? He did okay but I don't recall him winning anything too big.

Darkrain vs Jiano was a falcon ditto finals in a Midwest tourney, and I can't wait to see how he does at NYC. SS doesn't travel

Also, Isai doesn't like singles, really, he lives for doubles, and I've never seen him have more fun than when he plays falcon in doubles.

 

[NJ'zFinest]

Who, for IC? Trail? He did okay but I don't recall him winning anything too big.

Trail isn't the only player I had in mind, but I don't recall SS, Isai, Darkrain, and Jiano winning anything too big.

Darkrain vs Jiano was a falcon ditto finals in a Midwest tourney, and I can't wait to see how he does at NYC.

You're judging simply on a vid?

SS doesn't travel

No Johns

Also, Isai doesn't like singles, really, he lives for doubles, and I've never seen him have more fun than when he plays falcon in doubles.

True ^
He uses CFalcon for usually fun in doubles (sometimes he has to use CFalcon- ex. Isai + CJ at OC), but he uses Sheik mostly when he wants to win (he's Sheik is known for being the best partner anyone can have for doubles ).

 

[Sighrax]

No, I'm not basing a simple fact that Darkrain is amazing on one vid. I watched that stuff in person and actually played him

What other IC's really helped put them up the tier list? I want to know, because I'd like to see their stuff.

Jiano is known to falcon players as one of the best now along with DR, SS, Isai, and some say Tapion now too. :D

 

[nameless_shadow]

Umm...seriously I'd love to see some more impressive IC's as well. I am not saying Chu is the only one. I am pursuing them as well. Hope I eventually get the chance to duke it out against Chu. Of course...thats a ways away. But it'll be fiun nonetheless. If you have any vids of good IC's let's see them or even just names

 

[Sighrax]

Umm...seriously I'd love to see some more impressive IC's as well. I am not saying Chu is the only one. I am pursuing them as well. Hope I eventually get the chance to duke it out against Chu. Of course...thats a ways away. But it'll be fiun nonetheless. If you have any vids of good IC's let's see them or even just names

I like Meep (MeepXZero) from TA. D:~

 

[nameless_shadow]

cool. any vids of him on the boards?

 

[ToP CaT]

a little bit, in that ta crew vid

 

[nameless_shadow]

hmm, I saw em'. Yeah he is fairly good. It'd be fun to play agaisnt him as well.

 

[NJ'zFinest]

Don't judge on videos....especially outdated ones...lol

 

[Sighrax]

Don't judge on videos....especially outdated ones...lol

hey listen talk to me about ganon's placement >:[

imho, it should go falcon samus ic jiggly ganon others for "mid tier"

opinions?