Test Your Might V! April 4th? Cleveland, Ohio Melee?

[King~]

nice we welecome all newcomers

 

[ithrowthings]

Yay, he's listening to me this time. I mean, the 8th could *probably* work but I'm 99% sure we'd only get locals again and not very many. Not to mention the short notice would probably drive ppl away.

Cold fusion seemed kinda mad at the last one. Everyone was doin friendlies after the tournament and some employee there was like "free play ends at 9" or something like that. Where did all the cool employees go, I never see that Indian guy there anymore or that other guy that was there when it was in bedford heights.

28th works for me to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Smash Glov]

28th works for me i just need to know so i can call off plz try to lock a date soon ^_^

 

[Revven]

I hope I can be there =)

This would be my first tourney

Btw I play Brawl(+), Melee, and 64 =)

Dude, badass, definitely need more Brawl+ rep in Ohio. Bring a Brawl+ setup with the latest set if you come dude, it was a major hit at the last TYM and I'm sure this time won't be any different.

28th works beautifully for me, I'm off on Spring Break that week as well. And, SFG could probably make it to it as well but, I'll have to check.

 

[The_Altrox]

I think i not do the 4th, ugh. decisions decisions. What about March 28th anyone?

I might finally be able to come. and maybe my friends will come too. I'll play Brawl and Melee, but I've never played Brawl+ before. I'll give it a try.
(Note: Truthfully, I am sort of opposed to Brawl+, as it seems to be the creation of whiners who didn't like the changes from melee, but if it exists, I wanna play it too.)

 

[slartibartfast42]

Truthfully, I am sort of opposed to Brawl+, as it seems to be the creation of whiners who didn't like the changes from melee

Truthfully, I think you have no idea what you're talking about. You have never been to a brawl tournament or a melee tournament. No offense but there's no way you've experienced how either game works at the tournament level. Brawl+ does not feel like melee. It feels like a version of brawl that isn't boring. While this was most easily accomplished by adding in exciting elements from melee such as easier edgeguarding and combos, but it still feels like brawl, except it's actually fun (for me at least). I can't play marth or peach in Brawl+ the same way I do in melee, it's actually more similar to the way I would play them in Brawl.

 

[The_Altrox]

Truthfully, I think you have no idea what you're talking about. You have never been to a brawl tournament or a melee tournament. No offense but there's no way you've experienced how either game works at the tournament level. Brawl+ does not feel like melee. It feels like a version of brawl that isn't boring. While this was most easily accomplished by adding in exciting elements from melee such as easier edgeguarding and combos, but it still feels like brawl, except it's actually fun (for me at least). I can't play marth or peach in Brawl+ the same way I do in melee, it's actually more similar to the way I would play them in Brawl.

Of course it isn't melee. I doubt it would feel the same even ifthey adjusted it down to the last detail. but I no get it why Brawl in itself isn't consideded good enough. IMO, Brawl already had enough competitive value in itself to begin with, and I never understood why people found it boring to begin with. I hope Brawl+ becomes the precedent. But once again this is not saying I won't play Brawl+. I already said I'd try it. I'm not that close minded.

 

[Earth_Swords_Man_009]

So yea...Joe I'm again up in the air about this one. Sorry Bro.

By the way, JoeS want to team? I don't think 4% is going to come again so Im a need a teammate.

 

[Eddie G]

Of course it isn't melee. I doubt it would feel the same even ifthey adjusted it down to the last detail. but I no get it why Brawl in itself isn't consideded good enough. IMO, Brawl already had enough competitive value in itself to begin with, and I never understood why people found it boring to begin with. I hope Brawl+ becomes the precedent. But once again this is not saying I won't play Brawl+. I already said I'd try it. I'm not that close minded.

Brawl was made with the intent to eliminate competitive play, so it was naturally limited no matter how much people managed to exploit its gameplay. Brawl+ wasn't made by "whiners" or anything of the sort, they just craved for more competitive depth that Brawl just couldn't satisfy, and it's fun for them to play it in that new way. It is not Melee, it is similar to it but vastly different at the same time. I'm glad that you're open minded about it but your claim on their intent for creating it was unfair to say.

 

[slartibartfast42]

Of course it isn't melee. I doubt it would feel the same even ifthey adjusted it down to the last detail. but I no get it why Brawl in itself isn't consideded good enough. IMO, Brawl already had enough competitive value in itself to begin with, and I never understood why people found it boring to begin with. I hope Brawl+ becomes the precedent. But once again this is not saying I won't play Brawl+. I already said I'd try it. I'm not that close minded.

The real reason I like melee and 64 more than brawl (and every other fighting game really) is because of the extremely interesting/varied comboing and edgeguarding games. Brawl doesn't have that. I'm not neccisarily saying brawl is a bad game it just doesn't have what made me love melee/64 so much. Brawl+ is more interesting, it has edgeguarding/combos and a lot more options overall, especially with auto L-cancelling, which makes many more moves viable. It also has the potential to be extremely well balanced.

Also, I need to shut up more because I myself don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to high level brawl play. I quit really early on.

 

[GirugaMarc]

=) good to see Ohio has smash activity

I've been thinking Ohio was a dead smash zone ;-;

My spring break starts on April 10 =x

I'll see if I can make it whenever this thing is planned to be

 

[The_Altrox]

But that's what I like about Brawl. Less straight forward combos. Rather than combo combo combo DEATH!!! it works more that you can potentially make combos, but not in the same way. If I'm fighting someone, it comes down to: I hit this person, then I have to make a second hit. But they might be ready to counter that. So I need to be able to counter that counter, or try a completely new approach. Not saying that doesn't previously exist, but it's existance is pretty firm in Brawl.

But again, I am open to Brawl+ and will try it. I just can't convince my friends otherwise...

 

[Revven]

But that's what I like about Brawl. Less straight forward combos. Rather than combo combo combo DEATH!!! it works more that you can potentially make combos, but not in the same way. If I'm fighting someone, it comes down to: I hit this person, then I have to make a second hit. But they might be ready to counter that. So I need to be able to counter that counter, or try a completely new approach. Not saying that doesn't previously exist, but it's existance is pretty firm in Brawl.

The problem with Brawl isn't that because combos don generally exits it's because defense is too overpowered. Why do think almost every new technique discovered deals with the shield or some form of defense? IIRC, there hasn't been anything new for offense for months that works for every character equally. Sure there's DACUS but, that's only for a few characters.

The point is, the defensive options are too overpowering. If the defense and offense were equal and hitstun wasn't there, it would be much better but, not that much better. You'll still have that terribly slow feeling and boring matches (I almost NEVER watch Brawl matches, ever, because none of the matches are ever that exciting. They're all mostly the same formula).

Everybody's complaint isn't the lack of combos, of course, that's part of the reason but the bigger picture is the overpowered defensive options. Why do you think everybody and their mother rushes to MK? Because he's an offensive character and is REALLY good at taking advantage of his defensive options as well. He's also fast unlike the majority of the cast, who are slow and clunky (REALLY clunky). He just so happens to also be the best character so far, which is merely coincidental.

No matter what though, the person approaching is always at a disadvantage. Camping is a powerful tacic (even though it can be beaten by a intelligent player, it doesn't mean camping still isn't a problem, because it is, especially for newer players who find out that camping is really good). Shield grabs are too good, you can sit there and watch the player get shield grabbed for approaching, just merely approaching. Sure, they might not have done it safely, but that's also beside the point. Shield grabbing was not this good before, especially when the shield drop for most characters is 1 frame.

Practically everything about Brawl is defensive. You can hardly ever be offensive (unless you're MK) and if you do play offensively, you get screwed, quite badly too. This may be an exaggeration but, it is generally true.

The defensive options far outweigh your offensive options in Brawl it's just a question of asking Sakurai what he was thinking but, then again, he made Brawl with items in mind which is another good reason why Brawl+ was made (not only that but, to fix glitches and balance the offense and defense).

But, yeah, you definitely need to try Brawl+ out. It's all good and fun.

 

[4% APR]

So yea...Joe I'm again up in the air about this one. Sorry Bro.

By the way, JoeS want to team? I don't think 4% is going to come again so Im a need a teammate.

yeah, even if i did make it, you really wouldn't want to team with me anymore, i haven't touched the game since the last time we teamed

 

[Earth_Swords_Man_009]

**** son...we need to practice ASAP then.

 

[slartibartfast42]

Why do you think everybody and their mother rushes to MK? Because he's an offensive character and is REALLY good at taking advantage of his defensive options as well. He's also fast unlike the majority of the cast, who are slow and clunky (REALLY clunky). He just so happens to also be the best character so far, which is merely coincidental.

This is the only thing I really disagree with...

While I admit my knowledge of the brawl metagame is limited, I think I see a pattern in the brawl tier list.... Higher characters have a greater variety of good moves against shield.

Meta- Tornado/aerials that can't be shieldgrabbed/really good dash grab
snake- grenades/ftilt
DeDeDe- camp, waddle dee spam, huge grab range.
Mr. G&W- Turtle

Captain falcon- Nothing, so he's bottom tier

Anyone who knows what they're talking about tell me if I'm wrong.

 

[ithrowthings]

I was talking with MI at a tourney this weekend and I made the comment that it seemed they just made brawl+ revolve around cap'n falcon and try to make MK worse and they said that that's actually exactly how they designed it. Then we talked for like an hour about frame data and argued about which variables they changed to add the hitstun and if other variables existed for knocking into the tumble animation and how these affected hitstuns. Good times but kinda disappointing that they just took the tier list and flipped the top with the bottom and messed around with the other guys too then said it was balanced and more competitive.


Also at slarti. While that's kinda true it's not really true. It's more of which moves are "safer" MK has a lot of moves that are very safe due to his stupid sword being a disjoint. Snake is somewhat safe to play because he's just so hard to approach. If you mess up your approach in the slightest you're getting hit by a nade, C4, F-tilt, u-tilt, jab combo, nair, SOMETHING but you're getting hit.


you're kind of on the right track with dealing with shields and that's why you see SO MANY grabs at higher levels of play. this isn't to say that grabs are amazing either though otherwise ICs would be top tier hands down. Brawl is extremely competitive at the higher levels of play and it seems the more we learn about the game the more tech skill is required (watch kirk's smash DI video and pivot fsmashes to see what I'm talking about) Considering how little time has been spent in brawl+ we haven't even begun to find anything advanced in the game thus far. I'm sure if you spent a lot of time with it there would be at least a couple 0-death combos. If I wanted 0-death combos I would either fight an IC in brawl or go back to the N64 version.

 

[The_Altrox]

Hey Ithrowthings, do you go to University of Akron? Cause my sister goes there.
btw, a date confirmation would be very nice

 

[Ballistaboy]

BRAWL+ is needed!!!!!!

Ill be coming to this

And i can bring a setup for both brawl+ and brawl, also will bring a melee disc and memory card

I was talking with MI at a tourney this weekend and I made the comment that it seemed they just made brawl+ revolve around cap'n falcon and try to make MK worse and they said that that's actually exactly how they designed it.

Also ITT, MK is the best in Brawl+ easily, basically anything he does can combo into and air combo causing death. Its ********.

 

[ithrowthings]

Hey Ithrowthings, do you go to University of Akron? Cause my sister goes there.
btw, a date confirmation would be very nice

Yes, I attend the university of akron. We play brawl there sometimes but some ******* stole my wii that I left at the game room so we don't play very much anymore. Mostly scrubs there.

BRAWL+ is needed!!!!!!

Ill be coming to this

And i can bring a setup for both brawl+ and brawl, also will bring a melee disc and memory card



Also ITT, MK is the best in Brawl+ easily, basically anything he does can combo into and air combo causing death. Its ********.

I still don't think MK is the best in brawl+ They gave his down smash downtime, tornado landing lag and just tried all around to make him a worse character. It doesn't really matter though because brawl+ won't ever become truly competitive, It'll always just be a side event.

 

[The_Altrox]

Yes, I attend the university of akron. We play brawl there sometimes but some ******* stole my wii that I left at the game room so we don't play very much anymore. Mostly scrubs there.

That sucks. You should have brought a sibling or borrowed a sibling on sibz week and tried to win that wii in bingo

 

[ithrowthings]

I've been to their bingo things before but haven't won any yet. I went to that janky halo 3 tourney they had last friday and I won that though.

 

[Revven]

I was talking with MI at a tourney this weekend and I made the comment that it seemed they just made brawl+ revolve around cap'n falcon and try to make MK worse and they said that that's actually exactly how they designed it. Then we talked for like an hour about frame data and argued about which variables they changed to add the hitstun and if other variables existed for knocking into the tumble animation and how these affected hitstuns. Good times but kinda disappointing that they just took the tier list and flipped the top with the bottom and messed around with the other guys too then said it was balanced and more competitive.


Also at slarti. While that's kinda true it's not really true. It's more of which moves are "safer" MK has a lot of moves that are very safe due to his stupid sword being a disjoint. Snake is somewhat safe to play because he's just so hard to approach. If you mess up your approach in the slightest you're getting hit by a nade, C4, F-tilt, u-tilt, jab combo, nair, SOMETHING but you're getting hit.


you're kind of on the right track with dealing with shields and that's why you see SO MANY grabs at higher levels of play. this isn't to say that grabs are amazing either though otherwise ICs would be top tier hands down. Brawl is extremely competitive at the higher levels of play and it seems the more we learn about the game the more tech skill is required (watch kirk's smash DI video and pivot fsmashes to see what I'm talking about) Considering how little time has been spent in brawl+ we haven't even begun to find anything advanced in the game thus far. I'm sure if you spent a lot of time with it there would be at least a couple 0-death combos. If I wanted 0-death combos I would either fight an IC in brawl or go back to the N64 version.

All I'm going to say is this: You've got our thinking wrong. The premise of Brawl+ is to make Brawl what makes smash a competitive game. Brawl DOES work as a competitive game, I'm not gonna lie, but there are some serious problems with it that make it unfun to play, not very interesting to watch matches, and has ******** depth (if you can even call some of the things you mentioned 'depth', personally speaking, release grab combos aren't depth, it's abusing a poor system). In any case, I think you should give it time before judging it so early, it's still in its beta stages, a lot could change from here to the end result.

Captain Falcon just so happened to get good because guess what? He was builtwith Smash's core mechanics in mind (hitstun, lower landing lag, his own fallspeed, dash dancing, and etc.) He got better on his own, we didn't buff him specifically, the codes that came out did. If you have anything to blame for Falcon getting buffed, it's hitstun and the gravity changes to him. Would you prefer that he sucked and was unviable like he is in Brawl? I didn't think so. In the latest set, Meta Knight has lost the 'nado nerf and Dsmash nerf, but still dies earlier.

Like I said, it's still in beta, you should give it some time. Yes, it's a lot of fun, I don't expect it to "take over Brawl", I at least expect it to be accepted as at MOST a side event, anything higher and that's welcome as well. I recommend watching Brawl+ matches of top players like The Cape if you don't have access to Brawl+ at all atm. So, please Joe, side event pl0x?

Also, just wanted to mention that Chudat <3s Brawl+ now.

 

[Eddie G]

There are too many misconceptions about Brawl+. I personally play and enjoy every variation of Smash, with Melee and Brawl being on my competitive attention; and what is being done with Brawl+ is interesting and there is nothing wrong with wanting to play the game that way. I don't know, people can do whatever they want, I don't want to waste my time complaining or anything when I can just use my time to understand and improve at the game. How do you think I improved at both Melee and Brawl while others were whining about each game from their own perspective? Yeah... O.~

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i think i could make it on the 4th and i want to try brawl+ this time.

 

[XtacyfalcoX]

you still gonna be my partner bboy?

 

[Smash Glov]

money is looking tight right now im not sure if i can come to this one reguardless ill try tho

 

[PYON!]

Come on glov at least come for some melee friendlies. Its just not the same without a bowser there.

Im gonna try to make it to at least play some melee.

 

[Earth_Swords_Man_009]

...You asshat....

 

[The_Altrox]

If it's still the 4th, i can't come. sorry...

 

[aquteen]

If I don't go to poeII I will try my hardest to come with my crew (7 people)

Do you need setups or tv's for this?

and I can bring recording equipment.

of course this is only if there's melee.

 

[Smash Glov]

if i can get some monies for gas bowser will make a appearence lol hes just to much

which brings me to my next question why did they take him out of brawl....?

xD

 

[XtacyfalcoX]

if i can get some monies for gas bowser will make a appearence lol hes just to much

which brings me to my next question why did they take him out of brawl....?

xD

nigg a i always give you gas monies so we're goin

 

[Smash Glov]

can i get a date for this please! perhaps the weekend after the 4th cause its pushin it for a request off now....

 

[KingChaos]

man if me and shugo are going to go to this one i gotta learn how to get there...im bad with directions and such lol. argh crap hope I can figure it out.

 

[Smash Glov]

get a compass it saved me and xtacy xD

 

[Revven]

man if me and shugo are going to go to this one i gotta learn how to get there...im bad with directions and such lol. argh crap hope I can figure it out.

Yeah please come dude and try Brawl+ some more, you'll get used to the No FF on C-stick Dairs (You can still press down on the control stick and down on C-stick to FF it though).

Brawl+ represent! And ... moar side event pl0x.

 

[Earth_Swords_Man_009]

I'm still up in the air for going. I'll know by the end of next week fo sho.

 

[Thanatos*~]

so, this be a confirmed tourney?

 

[Alus]

If it is april 4th then i cannot go (leaving for vacation)