Tekken Mafia | Now with the real endgame flavour.... Who won?

[#HBC | Kary]

Nabe is 4-shot Neighbourizer Vigilante and wants me lynched because he thinks I'm Bulletproof Marker.

say that back to yourself slowly.

Who's scum, Nabe?

 

[Kataefi]

VOTE COUNT:

[1] Kary: Nabe
[1] Nabe: Kary

[0] -Masquerain-
[0] Krystedez
[0] BarDulL
[0] Pink Lemonade
[0] Jdietz43
[0] WashedLaundry

[6] Not Voting: Krystedez / WashedLaundry / BarDulL / Pink Lemonade / Jdietz43 / -Masquerain-

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline set for Monday 6th August, Midnight GMT.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Prior to my asking, Kary never suggested that I could be town and wrong. He said, "You're lying. You're lying."

@Nabe: are you actually claiming 4-shot Neighbourize/Vigilante? Did you actually shoot me?

Or are you confusing yourself with Joey's even less plausible 3-shot vig claim?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

"Are you actually" = "I don't believe you" = "You're lying"

I shot you because I thought you were marker, I want you lynched because you're bulletproof scum claiming VT

 

[Jdietz43]

I'm really tired of this, Nabe is getting less and less coherent in the QT and Kary is flailing at the speed of sound while Washed just doesn't want to play at all.


PL: I'm pulling an Overswarm. Tell me who you want to die and I'll vote with you.


@Mod: Request prod on PL (and WL if it's been long enough)

 

[Jdietz43]

EBWOP

@Mod: Request prod on PL (and WL if it's been long enough)

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm really tired of this, Nabe is getting less and less coherent in the QT and Kary is flailing at the speed of sound while Washed just doesn't want to play at all.

Nice fence-sit.
Also, being loud doesn't equal flailing, thought you should know.

I shot you because I thought you were marker, I want you lynched because you're bulletproof scum claiming VT

who's scum?
no really, other than me, who's scum?

I'd really like for you to stop trying to make my slot look bad
and answer the very simple question.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Laundry. Other than that, currently being worked on. If you could actually answer my questions about Dietz, that would go a long way to being helpful.

As for trying to make your slot look bad, that's not necessary. I shot you and you didn't die. Your response to that, you vocally ignoring my questions, you bullying other players, these things speak for themselves.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I had four shots, wanted to save one for vig, and I'd burned three.

Right. I WIFOM'd in-thread that Ditz would keep me safe by watching me, and told him in the QT not to watch me. After which we had a hilarious discussion about how I'd been wrong about his role and that he wasn't a track/watch combo like I'd thought. But it was too late so we just hoped for the best.

So let me get this straight, you didn't shoot me Night 4 because you wanted to save the shot for vig. Even though at that point you had me as a scumread.

And even after Dietz told you he wasn't a watcher, and it should have been clear that Dietz hadn't claimed watcher, you didn't decide to use a shot, just hope for the best?

No, you're not. I will shove this down your throat until you cough up what I'm asking you.

What the hell are you expecting from me?

You're scum, I don't see why I should play ball with you.

You've claimed a bingo on me, and if you were town and had a bingo, I don't think you'd be pushing me this hard. What would you get from it?


You're scum, and you pulled this claim from where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[Kataefi]

Krystedez, Pink Lemonade and WashedLaundry have all received prods!

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

It's okay to say ***, you know. I'd understand.


What I expected from you was the willingness to showcase your "innocence" by answering some simple questions. Instead I've just gotten backtalk.

That's fine; I understand now that your Dietz read isn't legitimate. If you and Dietz were both scum, you'd be MvI, meaning you'd be in the right place to tell me exactly why he's not town, and you'd do so fervently when offered the chance.

As town with a bingo on you, what I'm getting by pushing you so hard is to get you lynched, since you're mafia, in probable MyLo where we need a mafia lynch, in a situation where you're trying to paint me as the villain and Gotham's ready to believe you.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Bard, is your roleblocking/ability-stopping thing an exclusive-or, or can it be both as well?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Has anybody claimed roleblocked aside from Dietz?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

nice that you ignored the pretty simple questions about how your claim stinks

weird that you think i'd be bulletproof as mafia; is that to balance your role then?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

maybe I didn't say that loud enough.

WHY AM I BULLETPROOF IF I'M MAFIA?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I was making bacon and coffee. I'd share but you know how that goes. And a tip, I don't intend to spend all day in here.

nice that you ignored the pretty simple questions about how your claim stinks

What questions would those be? I've answered every new point you made in 1609.
If we're talking about questions though, I've got a good batch of them a while back.

weird that you think i'd be bulletproof as mafia; is that to balance your role then?

Must be the case. I thought prior that you were bulletproof marker, which would go harder towards being the opposite of Ticket Puncher, and BP indy makes more sense. But you being mafia is the only thing that explains why you'd bring up J's multiple factions WIFOM.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Maybe you got scum docced. :S The thought occurs to me now.

 

[Dooms]

Dietz why isn't your vote on Kary?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Yeah, I'd prefer if you just rolled over and died, yeah.

Because my being BP mafia or there being a mafia doc seems completely unnecessary in a game where town has half a killing role. The mechanical justification for being BP mafia is incredibly weak.

But you're convinced I must be BP mafia because I think Ditzy is indy. Riiiiight.


Actually, I think you genuinely believe I'm indy. Which is hilarious. But you're mafia, and that is pretty much the only reasonable explanation for:

your claim smelling bogus
you playing your role badly (e.g. not shooting me N4)
your push on me today when I'm unlikely to be mafia;
both mechanically, as BP mafia
and based on my play, such as interactions with Swiss
you being determined to lynch me over any scumbuddy I may have

and

you faking a shot on me


that's about it.

 

[Dooms]

LOL.

Dietz vote this guy so we can catch more scum tomorrow without hearing this bs pls.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Joey,

Why is what I'm saying BS

when Nabe has claimed 4-shot neighbourizer/vigilante
and thinks i'm bulletproof mafia?

do you genuinely think i'm mafia in this scenario?

 

[Dooms]

I agree with Dietz in the fact that you could very possibly be indy.

I also, however, agree with the fact that you could be mafia from Nabe considering the fact that you brought back up the J BS.

I do see mafia/indy having a BP when considering Nabe's claim. I also see Nabe's claim making sense when the only other decent PR we have that couldn't back fire on town REALLY early (aka losing one of the line tappers/get info from lines people very early which makes the other useless) is Jdietz (who you also have as indy wtf), and there was literally a mafia/indy that completely wrecks Bardull's role (female that took the information thingy from him). I don't see town being all VT's + two pr's that rely on eachother completely.

Considering that there is a counter for Bardull and theres a counter for town roles in general (aka mafia roleblocker), I think you're more than likely indy with BP considering that Nabe could have had four vig shots instead of neighborhood shots. I feel like that if it was a real role, then there would probably be SOMETHING stopping it from killing an indy and possibly mafia. I could POSSIBLY see you as scum due to this, but I'm leaning towards indy. I don't see Nabe scum, and if we have to lynch between the two of you, then I'm going after the Indy/Possible Scum.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Catching up right now.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Nabe has claimed 4-shot neighbourizer/vigilante

Actually, I'm Ticket Puncher, give Kata some credit
You'll find when you say it that way it's way more hilarious

 

[BarDulL]

Bard, is your roleblocking/ability-stopping thing an exclusive-or, or can it be both as well?

I don't have a role blocking ability or anything of the sort, otherwise I would have claimed it.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Kary: if you're indy, claim as much so we don't lose the game lynching you toDay

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Also, there is some information I have that indicates that there is either a role blocker in this game, or someone who can't be targeted by abilities.

I was asking about this

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

But you being mafia is the only thing that explains why you'd bring up J's multiple factions WIFOM.

Kary, explain this

 

[BarDulL]

I just don't believe
that it's REMOTELY balanced
that Bardull claiming his role
would kill not just him
but ANOTHER townie

What's SO important about Bardull's role that he can't claim?

How on earth is it fair that you slipping up would kill ANOTHER townie?

Squirm more, but know my role is completely legitimate.

 

[BarDulL]

I was asking about this

I don't know if I can explain that. One second.

 

[BarDulL]

Can't explain role-blocking part.

Kary, can we have a read list from you?

 

[BarDulL]

Oh, but I see why you'd ask now.

Nabe, if Kary really can't be targeted by abilities, that makes WL autoscum. But it also makes Kary scum with him because Kary said he was VT.

 

[BarDulL]

Rephrase: don't know if they are the same alignment are not, but it would make both of them scum.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Thanks, so you can't say if there could be both a roleblocker and an ability-avoider in the game?

 

[BarDulL]

Oh, there definitely could be, I just can't say how I know that there could be.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

S'fine, that's what I needed to know, since Kary must be the ability thing and Dietz / other people(?) have claimed roleblocked

 

[Pink Lemonade]

So much stuff to catch up on ><

No, i get that it's WIFOM and scum could be keeping you alive. But, like, why are both you and Ditzy still here? Let alone why wasn't there night kills nights 2 and 4? Why are you saying it's just desperation on my part? you're trying to paint me as scum when I have very little idea what's going on this game and you're not talking to me

This was the first thing that caught my eye from Kary after my last post and basically after most of the massclaim was underway, and it seems really paranoid and like he's flailing despite there being very little pressure on him at the time. Also saying he has very little idea what is going on this game is not a strong excuse this game considering most players either are or have been inactive and Kary has been one of the most consistently active players all game.

Look, I have 3 townreads that I'm basically not going to flip on: Joey, Bardull and Krys. I strongly suspect there's 3 scum in the 4 remaining, and I think it's you/Ditz and likely Washed.

Just noting this, I agree with Joey town, but why the JDietz suspicions? JDietz is responsible for catching the only scum we've caught this game, and his play in general seems driven to scumhunt and actually look at intent/connections, so I'm strongly standing by JDietz town.

Claiming!

Hwoarang, Town Vigilante!

I don't have forever shots. Only 3 shots. I've only used one, too! Didn't want to lose town the game with my inactivity. As you'll soon see, I was brought into a neighborhood. I didn't do much discussion there, as I was AFK a lot. However, I made sure to read last game night since I claimed in the QT, and they requested a Kary shot. So I made it!

Kary is still here.

We've had no one claim a protective. So we have these options:

Scum has a protective and used it on town (NOPE)
Scum has a protective and used it on scum (Doubt it)
Kary is BP as town (didn't claim it so doubt it)
Kary is BP as scum (BINGO)

Vote: Kary

Nabe claim whenever.

(I'm slightly biased because I've read through what happens already) but when I read this I thought that a 3-shot vig could make sense, especially with the hammer mechanic to balance it out. Either way, this claim seemed reasonable to me and Joey has been very townie all game.

I'm Ling Xiaoyu, Town Neighbourizer!

I had three shots too, all gone to bring us kids together. FF N1, Joey N2, Dietz N3.

This also makes a lot of sense with JDeitz saying that Nabe would not have to claim, and it confirms that Nabe/Joey/Jdeitz are not a scumteam together.

UGH

there's the bull****.

Anyways.

Joey, why didn't you shoot RR Night 3?

Nabe, do you actually believe Joey's claim?

Ditzy, which one of Nabe/Joey is scum?

This is NOT the reaction I expected from Kary in response to a result from a solid town read of his having reason to suspect him. He immediately calls Joey a liar and (while he later says that just because he thinks Joey is lying that doesn't make him scum) that's not what he infers from that bolded question. It's a very harsh reaction that doesn't consider the chance of a redirect or something screwy going on to give Joey a false result/suspicion, and that's something much more typical of scum; to try and discredit the results/player rather than to consider other roles/options because as scum they already know those other roles/options don't exist.

still scum
why?

@Joey:

I just don't think Ditzy vs. J was a bus, especially given J's comments about multiple mafia factions in twilight. But Ditzy remains waay to scummy to be town. I'm also not 100% about his claim, either, but eh.

I really, really don't understand the JDeitz suspicions. Explain to me what is so scummy about him to you, Kary?

Kary is probably scum at this point based on claim and reaction, but there are still other issues to attend to before we close out today.

@Bardull: What exactly aren't you allowed to tell us? You've claimed not being able to tell us exactly what happened, but following that today you've essentially claimed your results in full.

@Nabe: Are you scum too? Why didn't you shoot RR when you had the chance. Why didn't you tell us your claim after you announced surety of Joey's alignment in our neighborhood?


I applaud Joey for taking the initiative in faking his claim to help Nabe, but the reality is Nabe has claimed 4 shot Neighborize/Vig in our QT. Lying about it, though well intentioned and all but guaranteeing Joey town, does not actually help us in this scenario. All things being equal it would be better for Nabe to be shot during the night to confirm him as his role is already spent rather than a VT be killed in his place for a fakeclaim.

Now needless to say this little stint has been fruitful for reads, at this point I was even supposed to further it by claiming a result through my RB at Nabe's bequest for further reaction tests. But I'm starting to think that may not have been suggested with the best intentions. I'm finding it somewhat hard to believe a vig role in a game with claims such as Bardull's and a confirmed line tapper plus a Watch/Track, it seems OP. Tack that on to a combined role such as Neighbor/Vig and it becomes questionable.

My apologies for our joint gambit, but it has seemingly proved fruitful. I'm not about to let everyone in town remain in the dark about this foible however since it's still possible we're reaching Mylo.

Lots of information O_O either way it affirms Joey/JDeitz town for me, there is no way that Joey would have pulled that gambit as scum, and JDeitz had no reason to out the gambit that would help him if he was scum, rather it seems like he did it to allow for more open discussion and a statement of suspicions with full disclosure now wrt the neighborhood.

Nabe being neighborizer and vig seems off to me, unless there is some kind of hitch. Nabe, do you have 3 shots to neighborize AND 3 vig shots? Can you use both on the same Night or no?

Nabe claiming neighborizer gave me a town vibe. If he is town, forming a neighborhood of himself, JDeitz and Joey would create a very strong alliance and town forum which would deff help in late game (ex: this gambit and the reactions from it). However, if he's scum, the neighborhood could help him too in getting into strong town players' heads.

The neighbor/vig ability is what makes me think he might be scum, because we saw no evidence of a vig earlier in the game and it came out of nowhere with the neighbor ability. However, I was surprised there wasn't a vig early on, especially with this being a large game and the unique hammer mechanic. So it's not either ability which I think is off, it's the fact that he claims he has both which seems OP.

Still, trying to shoot Kary makes sense; he's had some real high points and low points, and his interactions with Swiss on D2 seemed forced before Kary immediately dropped them on J coming into the game. I definitely think it's a possibility that both Nabe and Kary are scum.

Has Washed and Kary claimed yet?

One of them is lying. That is all I can say.

Both WL and Kary claimed vt, and with Nabe's results and Bardull's results it really, really seems like Kary is lying about being just a vt. WL could be lying as well, but his lack of presence/conviction this game makes his vt claim seem slightly more believable than Kary's.

I did hammer J.

The point of a vig is to clear questionmarks so that town does not have to waste days simply lynching people and nothing more (as we did with RR). By holding his shot he gave scum an extra night to work with after we had to spend the day lynching RR rather than having him already dead. Neighborizing me was the wrong play in that situation.

Kary is likely not town in this situation, though for the record overreacting is normal for Kary based on previous experience in ERB mafia. As I said, there has to be a reason scumNabe would go to such lengths to get a single kill. Either they suspect Kary to be opposed to their faction and difficult to remove at night, or this is the final mislynch they need to win the game.

There is definitely something about Kary that doesn't line up with him being vt. He's been going after everyone, even his strong town reads, who suspect him, rather they have results to back it or not. Bardull + Nabe's results also infer that Kary has something going on at Night that does NOT make him a vt. Even if Nabe is scum, there's something more there than just him trying to get through a potential final mislynch, especially since there are plenty of inactives (including myself) he could have pushed instead if that's his angle.

Would it be possible to lynch outside of Kary/Nabe? I'm thinking Washed honestly. I feel like we have a greater chance of lynching scum through Washed than we do arguing between Nabe/Kary now that I realize I can't trust Nabe's 4-shot claim fully anymore. :/.

Unvote

If we lynch outside of Nabe/Kary it would have to be WL because of Bardull's results, and we need to get something dealing with the results/screwy claims settled toDay.

I just don't believe
that it's REMOTELY balanced
that Bardull claiming his role
would kill not just him
but ANOTHER townie

What's SO important about Bardull's role that he can't claim?

How on earth is it fair that you slipping up would kill ANOTHER townie?

I don't see what it matters at this point, he's provided us with all the information he can and basically guided us through his results, the only thing he didn't do is explicitly state them, but he has explicitly stated that they incriminate you and/or WL as scum and at least one of you as lying about your role as a vt.

Has anybody claimed roleblocked aside from Dietz?

I was visited by the mystery woman N1 I believe. That's all it said, I guess because I didn't have any ability for her to mess with.

I'm really tired of this, Nabe is getting less and less coherent in the QT and Kary is flailing at the speed of sound while Washed just doesn't want to play at all.


PL: I'm pulling an Overswarm. Tell me who you want to die and I'll vote with you.


@Mod: Request prod on PL (and WL if it's been long enough)

I want Kary to die. I don't trust his claim as a vt, he hasn't played like a vt all game, and Bardull's results seem to support that Kary could be lying about his role. I also think that Kary has handled every single suspicion against him atrociously, and he literally turned on his solid town read (Joey) in a split second after he claimed he had reason to believe he was scum. That kind of knee-jerk attack on the player/result instead of trying to figure out what happened and WHY he got that result is something I've done as scum with a guilty on me because it's hard to defend your innocence when you KNOW they are right, so instead you discredit the player. I also don't like his suspicions of JDeitz and Bardull and his turn on Joey, they are weak and ill-substantiated attacks so far.

Other thoughts:

There are 8 players right now.

JDeitz, Joey, and Bardull are town. Bardull/Fynal honestly flew under the radar for me earlier on, but his claim makes perfect sense with Soup's role and toDay he's presented his results/suspicions calmly and handled Kary's retorts back to him very well; I don't see him being scum at this point.

That leaves Kary, Krystedez, WL, and Nabe as potential scum. I've had Krystedez as town most of the game, but if Kary flips scum I think it's somewhere we need to look again since Kary pulled a strong town read on him out of nowhere yesterDay and that seems to be the only town read he hasn't waivered on toDay. Nabe is scum if Kary isn't, and if Kary flips indy/something not aligned with J then Nabe needs to still be a consideration toMorrow. If Kary does flip scum (Nabe has a vig correct?) he should shoot between WL and Krstedez toNight, I would prefer WL though. WL is also scum if Kary isn't, and still needs to be looked at if Kary is because of Bardull's results.

I'd like to put my vote down before 5 pm today because I have work tonight and I don't know whether I'll be able to get on tomorrow.

 

[Krystedez]

I'll get on a Kary wagon, I'm re-evaulating my thoughts on my personal conviction that WL and PL are not the same alignment. Nabe I don't know much about.

Sorry for my lack of enthusiasm in this game I just feel utterly useless at this point. Reading slots 1500~ posts in is not something I'm used to, and it was the same when I was 1000~ posts in LOL... I'll never personally replace again unless I'm not in another game at all. Not fair at all.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Shameless prod-dodge.

Nabe vs. Kary is ******** as hell. Both of their claims don't make ****ing sense. Could be that usual scum vs. indy thing that happens when scum shoot an indy in end-game and then immediately give it away by going hard on the indy. Not sure though, could be wrong.

 

[Jdietz43]

LOL.

Dietz vote this guy so we can catch more scum tomorrow without hearing this bs pls.

Dietz why isn't your vote on Kary?

Settle Joey. I'd like to hear Nabe's answer to my question in the QT.


@PL: If you had to choose and were guaranteed success, which would you lynch today: Indy or Mafia?