Tekken Mafia | Now with the real endgame flavour.... Who won?

[Dooms]

I haven't been discussing much in general. My plan for the rest of the game was literally to get you lynched and then to get shot tonight. Since that obviously won't work now, I've been discussing more (plus I actually have free time for mafia!).

I claimed to them on the 27th, and started posting way more in the QT on the 1st to discuss who would go first in the mass claim order (me v Nabe). So I've been posting more in general the 1st and 3rd. Outside of that, I haven't at all. (There were literally no quick topic posts at all yesterday)

Dietz, I know it's kinda pointless since you've been RB'd, but can you post all of your results? "Targeted X; got roleblocked". Just for completions sake honestly. =P

Would it be possible to lynch outside of Kary/Nabe? I'm thinking Washed honestly. I feel like we have a greater chance of lynching scum through Washed than we do arguing between Nabe/Kary now that I realize I can't trust Nabe's 4-shot claim fully anymore. :/.

Unvote

 

[Kataefi]

VOTE COUNT:

[1] Kary: Nabe
[1] Nabe: Kary

[0] -Masquerain-
[0] Krystedez
[0] BarDulL
[0] Pink Lemonade
[0] Jdietz43
[0] WashedLaundry

[6] Not Voting: Krystedez / WashedLaundry / BarDulL / Pink Lemonade / Jdietz43 / -Masquerain-

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline set for Monday 6th August, Midnight GMT.

 

[BarDulL]

There is one final piece to the puzzle I've been given:

Nabe's name was mentioned in 3 different locations on N4 via people who were tapped.

As far as I know, VTs don't normally have quicktopics in this game, so if someone who is claimed VT was also "heard speaking," there's a big problem there.

By the way, does anyone know if Soup was roleblocked on one of the nights?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Okay.

Re-claiming Ling Xiaoyu, Town Ticket Puncher.

Four shots of Neighbourhood/Vig. It's carrot or stick, I can let people into my amusement park or I can kill them. Same actions as I claimed before, and I also shot Kary last Night. Dietz suggested Laundry as a shot, Krys was mentioned as well. I selected Kary because of my gut scumread on him, as I've said earlier toDay.

Kary didn't die, which meant I'd have to claim and get Kary lynched. Joey suggested entirely of his accord that he'd claim in my place so he could get shot toNight, which is why I said earlier there's no chance he's not town.

I'll be back in a bit to respond if there are any posts directed to me specifically.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Nabe: Are you scum too?

No.

Why didn't you shoot RR when you had the chance.

As soon as I got the role I decided not to use the vig side unless I needed it lategame. After the J lynch, Ruy was obvscum and so we had it in our heads that he was an auto-lynch next Day. That is a vig shot, except I don't have to waste my ability on nightkills. The possibility of townRyu never entered my head.

Why didn't you tell us your claim after you announced surety of Joey's alignment in our neighborhood?

I never had Joey as "sure" town. I only claimed because Bard took my hammer on Glyph's lynch. In the QT where I claimed, it says right in my claim that I wasn't 100% on Joey.

Now needless to say this little stint has been fruitful for reads, at this point I was even supposed to further it by claiming a result through my RB at Nabe's bequest for further reaction tests. But I'm starting to think that may not have been suggested with the best intentions.

You claiming a Track was always the main gambit. How would it have hurt town at all to tell Laundry you caught him at DH's body? Even before outing me and Joey, you could've run the damn thing.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

The point of a vig is to clear questionmarks so that town does not have to waste days simply lynching people and nothing more (as we did with RR). By holding his shot he gave scum an extra night to work with after we had to spend the day lynching RR rather than having him already dead. Neighborizing me was the wrong play in that situation.

Yes. Hindsight shows it was the wrong play. I should have shot J N1 too.

There's also the fact that he told me he had three shots and he asked me who he should bring into the neighborhood, which I responded with you if J flipped scum. Neighborizing you may have been the wrong play, but it was based on what I said, and you know how intelligent I'm not. Trying to use this to incriminate him is kinda crappy . Pretty sure this discussion was posted in the QT for you to see as well. :/.

That's not how it happened. I asked you, you said jokingly you would've picked J, we talked about Fynal, then I suggested Ditz on a J scumflip and you agreed.

 

[Jdietz43]

As soon as I got the role I decided not to use the vig side unless I needed it lategame. After the J lynch, Ruy was obvscum and so we had it in our heads that he was an auto-lynch next Day. That is a vig shot, except I don't have to waste my ability on nightkills. The possibility of townRyu never entered my head.

That is not a vig shot, that's a lynch. You're claiming you saw the merit in a dead RR and yet consciously decided to spend an entire day we didn't have to to lynch him.

Why would you hold your shot? That is the king of vig shot opportunities and you let it hang? It literally only helps scum and scum alone. You gave them a free extra kill that you could have prevented if you shot RR.

I never had Joey as "sure" town. I only claimed because Bard took my hammer on Glyph's lynch. In the QT where I claimed, it says right in my claim that I wasn't 100% on Joey.

Okay

You claiming a Track was always the main gambit. How would it have hurt town at all to tell Laundry you caught him at DH's body? Even before outing me and Joey, you could've run the damn thing.

It could have hurt easily, it creates added confusion in a situation where there are already claims on the table including two fake ones from you and Joey. Getting to the bottom of your alignment cleanly is currently more pressing than one reaction test against WL.



@Joey: Washed is a scumspect yes, but why wouldn't we want to get to the bottom of this Nabe and Kary issue?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

A vig is a lynch is a cop. Ryu was scum and would be dead, and as such he was out of my thoughts entirely. Instead of Ryu, I could investigate you one-on-one and see how you interacted with Joey and I, and we could hear your reports in private so we could catch scum and run amazing gambits.

How would the gambit create any confusion? The three of us were the only ones who needed to consider the truth, from our little objective island, and we've been building to it the whole Day. It's why you asked Laundry to claim first, it's why we did the massclaim. You claim to have tracked Laundry to DH, he hopefully slips and says it's impossible because he tracked you, or he doesn't, but either way the gambit is done and we out what really happened. That's simple ****, it won't confuse reasonably intelligent people.

 

[Jdietz43]

Sorry Nabe, but gambiting too many times hurts my credibility and this needed to be cleared up. (If you're scum I have to assume you suggested such a thing for me to do for a reason as well)

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Go look at the QT.

 

[Jdietz43]

Dietz, I know it's kinda pointless since you've been RB'd, but can you post all of your results? "Targeted X; got roleblocked". Just for completions sake honestly. =P

I may as well, the object of my curiosity after I stopped claiming who I followed publicly is already flipped.

N1: Track Adumb: Visited No One
N2: Watch J: Used Kill
N3: Track Nabe: No Result
N4: Watch Dark Horse: No Result
N5: Track Dark Horse: No Result

Go look at the QT.

Ok

There is one final piece to the puzzle I've been given:

Nabe's name was mentioned in 3 different locations on N4 via people who were tapped.

As far as I know, VTs don't normally have quicktopics in this game, so if someone who is claimed VT was also "heard speaking," there's a big problem there.

By the way, does anyone know if Soup was roleblocked on one of the nights?

Not that we know of. He died before he ever claimed any of his role.



I'd like to hear Washed and PL's take on this.

 

[Jdietz43]

As I said before: I'm glad people are so heavily invested in this game.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Kary, why are you so adamant that me shooting you is a lie? I've seen you in here a few times now and you haven't commented at all. There are questions posed to you in 1531, most importantly "Why did you bring up J's factions comment, and how does it relate to Dietz?"

 

[BarDulL]

Some reads I have:

Nabe/Joey/JD is not a scum team.
JD Town.

WL seems likely scum. Do not like that he is pushing for Nabe/Joey/JD as the final scum team in what is probably LyLo.

Kary is a generally over-reactive player. I think he's scummy for how he is trying to discredit other players, i.e. "something seems fishy about BarDulL's claim" when he's only really stating that to save himself without really looking at the content of my claim; I've stated that one of WL and Kary is lying, or both, but he hasn't taken my word for it/ continued pushing for WL. Instead, he says something is fishy about my role, which is odd considering his earlier push on WL. He also isn't pushing for WL anymore and is now going for Nabe on a weird premise.

At least one of them MUST be scum though between WL/Kary. Has to. If Town trusts me, assume that is a FACT and distinguish who you think is scum between the two.

I'm leaning on both of them being scum, with a bigger lean on WL.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Nabe, I'd like you to talk me through your night actions this game, and the reasoning behind each of them. For instance, where you neighbouring people in order to get a read on them, or to have a bunch of obv-town players working together? What prompted you to shoot me over Washed? And so on.

Frankly I don't think they add up, but I'd rather you explained it first.

@Bardull: I really think you need to hard claim right now. Right now your claim seems kinda fishy, and if I'm not just going to ignore your slot I think you should tell us what you know. You're going to get round any restriction you might have through liberal use of air quotes, or failing that, by replacing the initial letter of a word with the letter x, e.g. 'I xignaled Xary last xight' which is clearly nonsense.

Also you should probably tell me whether Nabe is scum.


Finally, I noticed on my re-read that ther was a plan in the neighbourhood for Ditzy to fake a guilty on Washed? WHAT? Even if scum Washed visited someone, what do you expect him to say? He probably did the ****ing roleblock! HOW would you manage to catch him out like that?


THAT there was a plan today to fake guilties on me AND Washed actually just makes me feel better about Washed's slot. I can easily see scumNabe pulling this in order to push attention onto Washed/Kary and mislynch whichever of us reacts worse.


also, wow that's one hella ninja

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Do not like that he is pushing for Nabe/Joey/JD as the final scum team in what is probably LyLo.

That was Kary.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

No, it wasn't.

 

[BarDulL]

^I read this post as WL pushing for Nabe/Joey/JD scum team.

 

[BarDulL]

Kary, have you not been paying attention? I can not claim certain information as it is "hard-corded into my system." If I claim, Town loses immediately.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Bardull, have you been purposefully *****-footing around?

Hard claim through the medium of rhyme if you have to

The VERY FACT that you cannot claim without killing two townies makes me VERY suspicious of your slot right off the bat. Given that you've said you're not pulling a gambit etc. (which I initially assumed), what do you want me to think?

 

[BarDulL]

Deal with it. I've laid out all the pieces of the puzzle. If you're smart, you can connect the dots. I can not explicitly state certain information that I know to be true.

In fact, I'll very clearly connect it for you since you can't seem to handle basic deduction.

1. I heard someone/s talking about Nabe on N4 from 3 different locations.

That being said, one or both of Kary/WL is lying about their VT claim.

I can not state how I came to this conclusion by any means.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Nabe, I'd like you to talk me through your night actions this game, and the reasoning behind each of them. For instance, where you neighbouring people in order to get a read on them

Yes.

or to have a bunch of obvtown players working together?

This too, if/when it became clear they were town. N1, FF is a power player and I wanted the chance to privately read him and to share reads with him if I felt he was legit. N2, I had hopes Joey was a role and thought he was pretty obvtown from the start. N3, I knew Dietz was a role after the J flip, but was suspicious about his alignment.

What prompted you to shoot me over Washed?

My overwhelming gut scumread on you. See any of my other town games ever, where unwaveringly I follow my gut over common sense. Bingo Mafia is a great example, where I was VT and claimed cop on the Gorf/Kuz hydra. (They were scum.)

Finally, I noticed on my re-read that ther was a plan in the neighbourhood for Ditzy to fake a guilty on Washed? WHAT? Even if scum Washed visited someone, what do you expect him to say? He probably did the ****ing roleblock! HOW would you manage to catch him out like that?

It's a textbook trap. ScumLaundry says something to the tune of, "You're lying, you couldn't have seen me at DH last Night!" where townLaundry with no knowledge of the RB would instead say, "There must be some mistake, I'm a VT".

THAT there was a plan today to fake guilties on me AND Washed actually just makes me feel better about Washed's slot. I can easily see scumNabe pulling this in order to push attention onto Washed/Kary and mislynch whichever of us reacts worse.

I'm claiming shooting you and you not dying. The Laundry gambit was meant to catch him as scum. Considering the weight of my claim on you, it's objectively clear where my focus is.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Nabe: maybe i didn't make myself clear. I want you to talk me through each of your night actions one by one and the reasoning for each of them. For instance, why bother neighbourizing frozenflame given he was very likely to die if town aligned?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Bardull: but you already mentioned it had something to do with line taps, what's that about?

Or are you just scum?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Nabe: maybe i didn't make myself clear. I want you to talk me through each of your night actions one by one and the reasoning for each of them. For instance, why bother neighbourizing frozenflame given he was very likely to die if town aligned?

... I did list my reasoning.

FF wasn't the best player in the game D1. Swiss or Adumb should've been nightkilled before him from a D1 paradigm.

 

[BarDulL]

>Wants me to out information about my role when I've explicitly stated that there is certain information I can't openly state without dying and killing a Townie in the process.

Kary, this line of questioning is ridiculous. That's me putting aside the fact that you've literally been the most inconsistent player this day phase; you've pushed for WL, Nabe, and now you're trying to push for me? Call me crazy, but the only person who really looks like scum right now is you. Or maybe you really are just hella paranoid, but I don't think that's the case.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Bardull: I'm only asking this because it's you. Let's assume you're town aligned and you full claim, how many townies die?

 

[BarDulL]

"I'm only asking this because it's you." Can't get more vague than that.

I die, along with a randomly chosen TOWN-ALIGNED player, so technically that makes for two.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Alright, so Kary, maybe I didn't make myself clear. I want my 1531 answered.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

@Bardull: I'm just checking there's not any ambiguity, alright? You already got midnight wrong.

@Nabe: nah, I'm handwaving that.
talk me through taking no action Night 4. I gather you have a scumread on me, Dietz has outed you as a power role, and you didn't want to, and didn't, hammer for immunity.

 

[BarDulL]

I feel mildly insulted that you actually think you feel the need to make sure I'm not being ambiguous.

Going on a bike ride, see you all in a bit. Remember, one of Kary/WL MUST BE scum.

 

[BarDulL]

Or both.

Peace.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

@Nabe: nah, I'm handwaving that.

No, you're not. I will shove this down your throat until you cough up what I'm asking you.

talk me through taking no action Night 4.

I had four shots, wanted to save one for vig, and I'd burned three.

I gather you have a scumread on me, Dietz has outed you as a power role, and you didn't want to, and didn't, hammer for immunity.

Right. I WIFOM'd in-thread that Ditz would keep me safe by watching me, and told him in the QT not to watch me. After which we had a hilarious discussion about how I'd been wrong about his role and that he wasn't a track/watch combo like I'd thought. But it was too late so we just hoped for the best.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I just don't believe
that it's REMOTELY balanced
that Bardull claiming his role
would kill not just him
but ANOTHER townie

What's SO important about Bardull's role that he can't claim?

How on earth is it fair that you slipping up would kill ANOTHER townie?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Kary, why are you so adamant that me shooting you is a lie?

This too.

ooh ooh

 

[#HBC | Kary]

but you didn't shoot me N4 because....?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

why are you so adamant you shooting me went through?

maybe you're popcap vig?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

but you didn't shoot me N4 because....?

That didn't seem necessary. Going into MyLo, I suspected you of being a piper or marker, and told the boys as much.

What the **** is popcap vig? I know my shot went through because Dietz was roleblocked and got confirmation of such, meaning the roleblocker wasn't on me. Answer my question: why are you adamant that I'm lying?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

why are you so adamant you shooting me went through?

Okay, town, take a look at this.

Prior to my asking, Kary never suggested that I could be town and wrong. He said, "You're lying. You're lying."

This is exactly the tell I was looking for from Laundry re: the Dietz gambit. It shows without a doubt that Kary has the intent to prove me wrong, not the intent to prove he's innocent. It's an important distinction, because trying to prove me wrong makes it about me, while proving himself innocent leaves it about him, something he can't afford.

Survivalism 101.

 

[Dooms]

I'm fine with a Kary lynch going through.

I feel like this discussion isn't going anywhere and all I can see is Kary squirming.