Tech Skill Exercises?

[JonaDiaper]

Nah, we never say ey. We're like the U.S. except we don't have racist southern areas and we have more girls.

I have never met a Canadian that uses 'eh' as a part of their speech.

are you srs???

no eh????!?!?! lol

racism isnt just against blacks,

in new york its more against mexicans then anything.

the guy to girl ratio in all the colleges that visited my school were terrible

they were all like 5 to 1, and one of them was 7 to 1.

pathetic. but i have a girl so who cares.

 

[IrArby]

Canada? Its actually spelled C, eh(A), N, eh(A), D, eh(A). Thats how it got its name. There isn't an "A" in the Canadian alphabet actually, just an "eh".

On the relevant subject of clawing I know Scotu and I think Silent Wolf discussed this in another thread (probably the Fox advice thread) and Scotu particulary is pretty against the claw. The problems that people usually have are SHDL and Multishines. Really its learning one difficult movement with your thumb vs. changing your whole control grip completely for like two techs. Really, who multishines in mathces with fox anyway? I usually make the first laser everytime nearly always frame perfect but my thumb gets to lazy to come up again for the second laser for some reason. I think the thumb "Y" to "B" slide is much easier to do consistently since you're sliding horizontally not tapping down vertically which makes precise button depression more difficult IMO.

Has anyone tried waveshining using the joystick to jump cancel and quickly pointing it down diagonally to wavedash? Its tricky but you'll jc your shine fast as hell. Really, I wouldn't recommend it though. I don't have any tips just now. Just Slander, Opinions, and a ridiculous question. Sorry

 

[Shai Hulud]

Claw is awesome! How many of you can do thunder's combo from shield? I can so take that!

Plus the whole argument that you can do all these techs without clawing because "look at silent wolf!" is kind of stupid. Are YOU silent wolf? Probably not. The point is that clawing lets me play just as technical as players much, much better than me. Without clawing there's no way I would be as technical. I just can't move my fingers that fast or that precisely. Sure, it's *possible* to do everything with a normal grip, but I promise you it is much easier if you claw. I mean, I can fire frame perfect double lasers all day, including retreating SHDL. Who else can do that? Only players much more skilled than I am.

Clawing lets bad people have tech skill, and I think it would improve the tech skill of even the best players.

 

[IrArby]

Wait who used the "SW doesn't claw argument"? Not I! I actually said SW discussed it and Scotu was against it. He really did have more reasons and explained himself extensively so just saying.

Also, I know for a fact that SW uses the control stick to jump for all lasers SHDL or RSHDL, so the "Y" to "B" slide that I brought up, vs. the Claw grip, doesn't even apply to SW since he uses neither.

Lastly, Shining out of shield would sorta fall under the same category as multishining since its all to do with JC shine. I totally agree that for that and multishines The Claw is easier since it requires less finger stamina and speed even if it may be harder to be precise with it (for most players). I hadn't thought of that particular use in OoS shines. That leaves SHDL which takes less practice to do consitently using the control stick flick (a la SW) vs. changing over to the Claw.

I have yet to see uses for the Claw other than easier/faster JCing. Even Waveshining, which admittedly probably could be done faster by Clawing, isn't since Shining an opponent makes you stay in the shine for a certain amount of time however fast you might be able to JC it. A decent Fox can consitently wavedash out with this delayed timing using a standard grip.

I'm really not knocking the Claw but I don't think its way easier to use especially if you're not making tech skill vids with 22 JC shines. Otherwise its impractical since waveshining and SHDL have easier methods. If your not a Fox main or a Falco who really likes multishines, I just don't see the point at all. The only great use I've heard is your OoS Thunders which is impressive. I'm not tring to be a **** Shai I just enjoy the discussion.

 

[Cactuar]

The layout of the GC controller is amazing. You don't need finger placement tricksies.

 

[JonaDiaper]

werd, your just making things more complicated then they already are.

unless you began to use to controller like that since the beginning.

theres no reason to learn a new grip.

get faster or go home

 

[TheGeneral]

I guess I would fit into your first description, I just naturally started clawing early on because I thought it felt more like playing on an arcade joystick and I like to play Street Fighter. I didn't even know it was called the claw for a while and I thought I was like the only person that used it. Of course I realized that I was wrong about that pretty quickly. Doesn't/ Didn't M2K claw?

I mean I can play with my thumbs but, yeah, I just lose all sorts of precision. and the point of melee is to look kewl with all my teks, rite?

 

[Shai Hulud]

I'm really not knocking the Claw but I don't think its way easier to use especially if you're not making tech skill vids with 22 JC shines. Otherwise its impractical since waveshining and SHDL have easier methods. If your not a Fox main or a Falco who really likes multishines, I just don't see the point at all. The only great use I've heard is your OoS Thunders which is impressive. I'm not tring to be a **** Shai I just enjoy the discussion.

I can also waveshine Marths, ICs, Luigis, etc., across FD using JC shines. Also it's really hard to shoot frame perfect SHDL if you don't claw. Every time I see vids of someone doing SHDL they're not frame-perfect (you can tell by whether both lasers will hit certain opponents on the ground). Claw is useful for all characters, not just technical ones, because it helps with aerials. You can easily start aerials on the first available frame after the jump or double jump, which means for Fox, things like uthrow => uair are easier to connect (M2K claws when he does this), ledge bair => regrab edge is easier, etc., for Marth you can do SHDF on the first available frame, with the C-stick. Etc. For all characters you can do aerials on any arbitrary frame, with the C-stick. It doesn't matter how fast you get with a normal grip, you cannot do this. Granted you can get close enough that it makes little difference, but you will never be able to C-stick aerials as fast as you can clawing.

And I could make a tech skill vid but there wouldn't be much anybody hasn't already seen before. I may make one anyway over Christmas break though.

JonaDiaper, I have been clawing from the beginning. I started clawing for Halo (somewhere from 10 - 20% of Halo players claw) and when I started playing Smash I found it very natural. The controller is even easier to claw than the xbox controller s.

 

[TemPesT-]

someone bring colbol in here haha... *goes to check and make sure colbol has already posted*

<_<

 

[Da Shuffla]

My fingers are too long for the claw. Makes it extremely painful. Still, though, thanks for your exercise ideas, Shai. Practicing has never been so rewarding.

 

[IrArby]

@Shai: I shouldn't think that SW's Control stick jump method to SHDL would be difficult to do frame perfectly since its using both hands.

 

[Da Shuffla]

I can do frame perfect SHDL, but only 1/4 consistency. How do people use the control stick to SH? Don't you have to flick it?

 

[EWC]

I can do frame perfect SHDL, advancing and retreating, with about 70% consistency using y->b. I don't really think clawing is worth learning, because most everything that it makes easier can be covered by thumb sliding or using the control stick to jump. The time it would take to learn claw would be better spent learning more efficient finger movements. Of course, if you already claw, and are comfortable with it, then this doesn't apply.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Clawing is probably the best way of controlling you char if you can master it. If you do, you literally have no limitations in terms of speed.
There are tons of things I want to be able to do that I can't because I'm not fast enough. And I DO have pretty **** fast fingers. For example, I can JC usmashes with Link using Y and c-stick up (without clawing). I can SHDF with marth in both directions using Y and the c-stick. I can SHDL with 99% consistency (y-b) and do a jc shine out of shield consistently with about 90% consistency.

But there are still many things I am not fast enough to do. For example, a good combo against a sheik at low percent from an uthrow that DI's a little bit (people often do this to **** up your spacing) is a shffl'd reverse bair (followed up by a jab or utilt or something). The spacing here is very precise since you need to hit them with the top of the bair hitbox, otherwise they can jump away.
I can not do it with Y and the c-stick before they can jump away consistently enough. So what do I do? I do it with Y and A. But since I need to press forward and then back really fast on the normal control stick, it messes up my spacing. I could also jump with the control stick and do the arial with the c-stick. but spacing short hops with the control stick is really hard.
With clawing this would be easy as pie.

EVERYBODY is hindered by speed, and clawing takes away this problem. The only downside to it that I can think of is that you'd have to "relearn" the way you control the game, which is why I don't claw.

 

[halcyon.days]

I can do frame perfect SHDL, but only 1/4 consistency. How do people use the control stick to SH? Don't you have to flick it?

Think of it like shorthopping. You basically have to press up on the control stick and then release right away. So technically you could flick it but it's possible to be able to just press up and then put it back to neutral asap.

I only use the control stick to SH when I'm doing SHDL, other than that I use Y.

 

[BlackPanther]

Hmmm, does it matter how the controller is bein gripped lol? I thought it was preference and claw doesn't guarantee ultimate character control in my opinion. I can probably outdo anyone who uses the claw =).

 

[sKatZ]

Clawing is probably the best way of controlling you char if you can master it. If you do, you literally have no limitations in terms of speed.
There are tons of things I want to be able to do that I can't because I'm not fast enough. And I DO have pretty **** fast fingers. For example, I can JC usmashes with Link using Y and c-stick up (without clawing). I can SHDF with marth in both directions using Y and the c-stick. I can SHDL with 99% consistency (y-b) and do a jc shine out of shield consistently with about 90% consistency.

But there are still many things I am not fast enough to do. For example, a good combo against a sheik at low percent from an uthrow that DI's a little bit (people often do this to **** up your spacing) is a shffl'd reverse bair (followed up by a jab or utilt or something). The spacing here is very precise since you need to hit them with the top of the bair hitbox, otherwise they can jump away.
I can not do it with Y and the c-stick before they can jump away consistently enough. So what do I do? I do it with Y and A. But since I need to press forward and then back really fast on the normal control stick, it messes up my spacing. I could also jump with the control stick and do the arial with the c-stick. but spacing short hops with the control stick is really hard.
With clawing this would be easy as pie.

EVERYBODY is hindered by speed, and clawing takes away this problem. The only downside to it that I can think of is that you'd have to "relearn" the way you control the game, which is why I don't claw.

i thought about claw, but i feel no rhythym or timing with it, im sure u can get used to it it just doesnt feel very intuitive.
i personally use a combination of control stick jumping for things like midair shine cancels, and full hop retreating aerials

 

[CommanderCody08]

something I've just started doing to get my thumbs faster is wearing a rubber band wrapped around my thumb and pointer finger and just pulling my thumb away to get it stronger. If in a few weeks I can shdl competently, then I'll probably make a tread on it.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

that doesnt help your muscle memory that just makes your finger muscles stronger...

 

[Da Shuffla]

I was practicing waveshining last night and I have some tips for those who may be just starting out with Fox. Note: These are not my ideas, just some stuff that I have gathered from the forums for people who don't feel like searching.

1. Use Y. Period. If you are fast with X, fine, but you will be faster with Y.
2. After only tilting the control stick the necessary distance to shine, RETURN IT TO NEUTRAL, and then tilt it for the waveshine direction. I found that not returning it to neutral caused me to become "stuck" in my shine. Returning it to neutral will make you far more consistent.
3. Go straight from B to Y in one smooth motion. I used to wait to see the shine for some reason. Just go from one to the other quickly: Your goal is to barely see the shine at all.
4. Like Shai said, practice on Peach/Link etc. Speeding up your waveshines will not only help you against high traction characters, but against spacies for things like Thunders' combo.
5. Lastly, tilt the stick as close to the horizontal as possible. This will make your wavedashes long.

That is all.

 

[Zeonix]

Hmm... speaking of clawing.

How the hell do players who claw get used to clawing? I've tried it and I still press all my buttons with my thumb. I'd love to learn it so I'm really willing XD

Also, the tips given are really helpful. Keep'um commin

My friend starting clawing when I first taught him the game 1.5 years ago. I guess it makes it easier for him to short hop, or vise versa...

 

[Neverender]

For some reason i have trouble wavedashing out of shines when i use them in combos.
I need help. D:

 

[TheManaLord]

just practice and consistency will come

 

[LumpyCPU...]

well i'm really consistent with fox's tech skill.
and i play a little over technical for kicks...
but my real problem is that when i play someone better than me,
or when i'm under pressure (a tourney match or an aggressive falco),
i tend to make a great deal of technical errors, such as fulljumping out of shine instead of wavedashing.

help?

p.s. what is thunders combo? i feel like a noob. lol

 

[Frames]

p.s. what is thunders combo? i feel like a noob. lol

aerial - shine - jab - falling up air - upsmash

thunderssssssssssssssssss

 

[Doggalina]

but my real problem is that when i play someone better than me,
or when i'm under pressure (a tourney match or an aggressive falco),
i tend to make a great deal of technical errors, such as fulljumping out of shine instead of wavedashing.

help?

I do this, too, but for me, it's usually do to a combination of pressure and fatigue. I just try taking deep breathes. If you're nervous with Fox, you end up screwing up a lot.

 

[Da Shuffla]

"Free your mind."

 

[RaynEX]

well i'm really consistent with fox's tech skill.
and i play a little over technical for kicks...
but my real problem is that when i play someone better than me,
or when i'm under pressure (a tourney match or an aggressive falco),
i tend to make a great deal of technical errors, such as fulljumping out of shine instead of wavedashing.

help?

p.s. what is thunders combo? i feel like a noob. lol

Thunders combo was invented by a Japanese Fox named Thunders.

Someone already posted how its done. Basically just aerial, shine then jab.

 

[Stratford]

Lol does anyone else find shl harder than shdl?

 

[Da Shuffla]

Actually, sometimes, it is. I sometimes mess up my SH when doing SHL, but with SHDL, I'm so focused on getting to B to press it twice, I rarely mess it up. The short hop, at least.

 

[Zantetsu]

Lol does anyone else find shl harder than shdl?

I find it harder to do at a reasonable pace compared to my shdl. I don't get it D:

Also, I'm surprised people are still posting in this thread. My wii stopped reading gcn disks a long time ago and I haven't had melee in a while so I've been stuck with Street Fighter. Eh, I guess this thread could help others though.

 

[Da Shuffla]

Buy a cube.

 

[Zantetsu]

Buy a cube.

I expected this response. I've got one but it's at my friends house because it's basically the main hangout place and I really don't feel like paying 30 bucks for a cube and 30 bucks for another copy of melee just to tech skill practice by myself. I'll just walk that one extra block to my friends and play there