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Team Star Fox call in Krystal for Smash!

RetrogamerMax

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Something interesting I found.

That is interesting. I wonder if Dorkly was working on that project with them since Dorkly use to work at CollegeHumor.

A new Star Fox animation featuring Krystal.

Krystal is so cute here.
 

Dinoman96

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The Star Fox/Zelda thing was all the way back in 2015.

I assume that Nintendo was originally planning to do a web Star Fox miniseries with College Humor that would promote and lead up to the release of Star Fox Zero, but then of course plans fell through. I guess then they decided to work with an anime studio to make an animated short, which ended up as The Battle Begins.
 

MorbidMiraj

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It's so weird to me that Nintendo would respond to Netflix leaking their Zelda show by... cancelling Star Fox at College Humor?

Like what is this, a scorched earth thing?

Around that time they also were making their deals with Universal for the theme park, and Illumination for the Mario movie. If they distrust western media companies so much, why allow those?

Sure seems like Star Fox is always screwed over, even if it's someone else's mess up. Geez. This franchise just can't catch a break.
 

Dinoman96

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It's so weird to me that Nintendo would respond to Netflix leaking their Zelda show by... cancelling Star Fox at College Humor?

Like what is this, a scorched earth thing?

Around that time they also were making their deals with Universal for the theme park, and Illumination for the Mario movie. If they distrust western media companies so much, why allow those?

Sure seems like Star Fox is always screwed over, even if it's someone else's mess up. Geez. This franchise just can't catch a break.
Like I said, I don't think it was that major of a loss. Considering this was back in like 2015, this was clearly something that was being done to promote Star Fox Zero, like a short web series being put out in the lead up to its release. In the long run, we still got The Battle Begins short out of it.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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It's so weird to me that Nintendo would respond to Netflix leaking their Zelda show by... cancelling Star Fox at College Humor?

Like what is this, a scorched earth thing?

Around that time they also were making their deals with Universal for the theme park, and Illumination for the Mario movie. If they distrust western media companies so much, why allow those?

Sure seems like Star Fox is always screwed over, even if it's someone else's mess up. Geez. This franchise just can't catch a break.
I swear, the Star Fox franchise is in a even worser position now than what the DKC franchise was in the 2000s. DKC might have not had any mainline games in the 2000s, but at least it had several spin off games so it really wasn't on life support. Star Fox on the other hand has only had one mixed reception title that sold under a million and a unreleased game brought back from the grave both in the 2010s. To me, it feels like Star Fox is on life support and is barely making it through. Miyamoto is the only person keeping it alive as he mentioned before how he wishes Star Fox was bigger. But Miyamoto needs to stop remaking the original over and over again and come up with new stories so people will get interested in Star Fox again.

Promote Star Fox Zero = No Krystal in the shorts

Image result for suddenly don't care meme't care meme
You know, I normally would agree. But the Star Fox franchise is pretty much in it's dark ages right now and anymore exposure for the Star Fox franchise is good for Krystal if she's in it or not. Less Star Fox or no Star Fox means no Krystal or Krystal less likely to return. The health and the well being of the franchise should be taken care of first before Krystal makes her grand return.
 

MorbidMiraj

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Like I said, I don't think it was that major of a loss. Considering this was back in like 2015, this was clearly something that was being done to promote Star Fox Zero, like a short web series being put out in the lead up to its release. In the long run, we still got The Battle Begins short out of it.
I mean, sure, we got the Battle Begins... but we could've also had a stop motion show. Maybe it would've been good, and maybe would've increased interest in the show. Who knows. It's also just example 585060438 of Nintendo cancelling a Star Fox project. I swear this series is forever cursed.
 

RetrogamerMax

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I mean, sure, we got the Battle Begins... but we could've also had a stop motion show. Maybe it would've been good, and maybe would've increased interest in the show. Who knows. It's also just example 585060438 of Nintendo cancelling a Star Fox project. I swear this series is forever cursed.
I mean, if DKC can rise back from the grave than so can Star Fox.
 

MorbidMiraj

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I swear, the Star Fox franchise is in a even worser position now than what the DKC franchise was in the 2000s. DKC might have not had any mainline games in the 2000s, but at least it had several spin off games so it really wasn't on life support. Star Fox on the other hand has only had one mixed reception title that sold under a million and a unreleased game brought back from the grave both in the 2010s. To me, it feels like Star Fox is on life support and is barely making it through. Miyamoto is the only person keeping it alive as he mentioned before how he wishes Star Fox was bigger. But Miyamoto needs to stop remaking the original over and over again and come up with new stories so people will get interested in Star Fox again.
I feel the same way. Some may point out that we've gotten 3 games in the past 5 years, but they're all with caveats:
One was the third remake/reboot of the series, when people wanted a sequel
One was some e-shop level game that was just a gamepad tech demo with Slippy slapped on it
One was a SNES game that was finished 20+ years ago and ROM dumped onto the SNES classic

I mean sure, it's not F-Zero-level of dead, but the franchise is definitely lost in the woods, and Nintendo IPs only get sequels if they sell 5 million+ per entry, or they have a champion producer at Nintendo. Star Fox's only champions are Miyamoto, Cuthbert, and Imamura. Miyamoto is semi-retired and focusing on theme park and movie stuff now, Cuthbert does little indie games on mobile phones, and Imamura just retired. There's nobody left to champion the series anymore. If it returns, it'll have to be rebooted yet again, this time by a younger team with fresh ideas. But for now, the series has no clear future, and it's honestly extremely worrisome.
 

Captain Hazama

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Star Fox Mass Effect concept art.

Now I wouldn't mind that. Love both series.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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You know, it sucks that some Nintendo franchises don't have a 4th character in the roster like DKC, Kirby and Star Fox as Dixie, Dee and Krystal would pretty much round out the main cast for those franchises in my opinion. Is it too much to ask for a 4th rep from those franchises when a smaller franchise like Fire Emblem get's 8 freaking characters? It's pretty sad to look at as if we ever get Krystal and Dixie, I'll never ask for another Nintendo newcomer again. That's how bad I want the Rare girls.
 

MorbidMiraj

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You know, it sucks that some Nintendo franchises don't have a 4th character in the roster like DKC, Kirby and Star Fox as Dixie, Dee and Krystal would pretty much round out the main cast for those franchises in my opinion. Is it too much to ask for a 4th rep from those franchises when a smaller franchise like Fire Emblem get's 8 freaking characters? It's pretty sad to look at as if we ever get Krystal and Dixie, I'll never ask for another Nintendo newcomer again. That's how bad I want the Rare girls.
Who needs more variety in franchise representation in Smash when Sakurai can just dump in the latest Fire Emblem rep? /s

But really though, there are glaring omissions for franchises like Star Fox and DK, and it's irritating that Sakurai keeps putting FE reps in, or third parties.
 

Fluttershy64

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You know, it sucks that some Nintendo franchises don't have a 4th character in the roster like DKC, Kirby and Star Fox as Dixie, Dee and Krystal would pretty much round out the main cast for those franchises in my opinion. Is it too much to ask for a 4th rep from those franchises when a smaller franchise like Fire Emblem get's 8 freaking characters? It's pretty sad to look at as if we ever get Krystal and Dixie, I'll never ask for another Nintendo newcomer again. That's how bad I want the Rare girls.
I feel like after Brawl, if we got a new Star Fox game on either the DS, Wii, 3DS or in the early days of the Wii U with Krystal being a big part of the story. She would have been a top choice for Smash 4. She would be up there with Villager, Palutena, Mega Man, etc....
 

RetrogamerMax

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I feel like after Brawl, if we got a new Star Fox game on either the DS, Wii, 3DS or in the early days of the Wii U with Krystal being a big part of the story. She would have been a top choice for Smash 4. She would be up there with Villager, Palutena, Mega Man, etc....
I feel like if Krystal was relevant and was in a new Star Fox game that was release closely prior to the Smash Ballot, she would have gotten enough votes to make it in as a newcomer in Ultimate for later like Ridley, K. Rool and Banjo & Kazooie. I think our votes got her that Assist Trophy so could you imagine in alternate reality how much better she would have done if she was relevant? We might have gotten her in by now.
 

Fluttershy64

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I feel like if Krystal was relevant and was in a new Star Fox game that was release closely prior to the Smash Ballot, she would have gotten enough votes to make it in as a newcomer in Ultimate for later like Ridley, K. Rool and Banjo & Kazooie. I think our votes got her that Assist Trophy so could you imagine in alternate reality how much better she would have done if she was relevant? We might have gotten her in by now.
I agree. I'm hoping that a new Star Fox game comes out with Krystal as a big focus that she becomes a big request for the next game. As for the Fighter Ballot, realistically I feel like she placed in the top 25. I was honestly shocked she was an asset trophy.
 

JOJONumber691

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I had a weird thought. So you know how the Star Fox Characters in Smash have original designs based loosely off of their Latest Appearance? Well, I think we can put Krystal onto some Steroids here. What if Krystal wore a Spacesuit instead of her main outfits. She wasn’t in Zero, and I’d imagine she’d be a great Space Explorer in the Zero Continuity, being more willing to explore in foot if needed, thus being more willing to put on a Spacesuit.
 

Mushroomguy12

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I feel like if Krystal was relevant and was in a new Star Fox game that was release closely prior to the Smash Ballot, she would have gotten enough votes to make it in as a newcomer in Ultimate for later like Ridley, K. Rool and Banjo & Kazooie. I think our votes got her that Assist Trophy so could you imagine in alternate reality how much better she would have done if she was relevant? We might have gotten her in by now.
Even :ultkrool:himself hadn't appeared in a main platformer DK game since DK64 when he got in, it was pretty much entirely fan demand that propelled him to the top. While a new game would certainly help, if we can keep up fan demand that would be just as helpful for Krystal.
 

Fluttershy64

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Even :ultkrool:himself hadn't appeared in a main platformer DK game since DK64 when he got in, it was pretty much entirely fan demand that propelled him to the top. While a new game would certainly help, if we can keep up fan demand that would be just as helpful for Krystal.
Yeah. Especially since in terms of first party character that are highly requested, Krystal is up there. The only other characters that are higher than Krystal that I can think of are Issac, Dixie, Waluigi, and Bandana Waddle Dee.
 

RetrogamerMax

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I had a weird thought. So you know how the Star Fox Characters in Smash have original designs based loosely off of their Latest Appearance? Well, I think we can put Krystal onto some Steroids here. What if Krystal wore a Spacesuit instead of her main outfits. She wasn’t in Zero, and I’d imagine she’d be a great Space Explorer in the Zero Continuity, being more willing to explore in foot if needed, thus being more willing to put on a Spacesuit.
Ridley's Smash design is a mix between Super and Other M while K. Rool's Smash design is a mix between his Rare and PAON designs. I feel like with Krystal they would go a similar route with her Smash design being a mix of her Adventures, Assault and Command designs kind of a like a spacesuit adventurer like you described.

Even :ultkrool:himself hadn't appeared in a main platformer DK game since DK64 when he got in, it was pretty much entirely fan demand that propelled him to the top. While a new game would certainly help, if we can keep up fan demand that would be just as helpful for Krystal.
True. But I feel like Krystal returning to the Star Fox franchise would boost her popularity and put Krystal back on the popularity throne in the Smash community like how gigantic she was during the Brawl days. If Krystal ever returns to Star Fox, this fanbase will relive it's glory days from the Brawl days and beyond which would be really exciting as Krystal was just as popular as Ridley and Geno back then. I'm sure a full revival of the character will do wonders for this fanbase even if she doesn't make it into Smash first
 

JOJONumber691

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Yeah. I’m imagining the idea of Krystal being in a thick Space Suit for Smash, with it having some of the Color Theming of Command and Assault (Pink highlights on a White Suit as the Default since it matches best with Command and irl Space Suits. Though the suit itself would also look very... worn. It wouldn’t be damaged considering how that would be something awful for Krystal, considering her job, but there’s a LOT of Moon Dust on her suit. There would be an Alt which is just her Suit without the Dust, and her Adventures Assist Trophy Model, albeit upscaled, would also be an Alt as well. The Dust here is primarily to help with connecting this design to her Origins in Adventures. That, alongside her Staff. The Bulk of her moveset would be the Staff, which is where the Adventures Influence REALLY Shines. She mostly attacks using the Staff, though considering the Era of Star Fox she comes from, I wouldn’t be surprised if she also snuck in some of the Weapons from Assault. That and her using some of those weapons would make sense considering how Krystal has to be Reworked to fit within Zero, while still feeling like Krystal. Same personality, similar back story, different position in the Story, just like how Zero was with the Story of the Original. It’s definitely an interesting idea, though it’s definitely a Far-Fetched Take, mostly as a Side Effect of Zero taking place in a New Continuity separate from the 64 Universe that Command was in.

I probably made myself sound like an idiot, but character continuities not being consistent bothers me, so I just let my initial thoughts ramble out lol.
 

Fluttershy64

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True. But I feel like Krystal returning to the Star Fox franchise would boost her popularity and put Krystal back on the popularity throne in the Smash community like how gigantic she was during the Brawl days. If Krystal ever returns to Star Fox, this fanbase will relive it's glory days from the Brawl days and beyond which would be really exciting as Krystal was just as popular as Ridley and Geno back then. I'm sure a full revival of the character will do wonders for this fanbase even if she doesn't make it into Smash first
Speaking of the Brawl days of speculation, what was the general speculation for Krystal chances to be in Brawl and the reaction to her not being in the game.
 

Mushroomguy12

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Speaking of the Brawl days of speculation, what was the general speculation for Krystal chances to be in Brawl and the reaction to her not being in the game.
I'd imagine there was a lot of anger at Wolf for "stealing" her slot. Both her Brawl (she actually had two Brawl threads) and her Smash 4 thread were much larger than this one, that's for sure.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Speaking of the Brawl days of speculation, what was the general speculation for Krystal chances to be in Brawl and the reaction to her not being in the game.
A lot of Krystal fans thought she was extremely likely almost a lock pretty much. They were angry about Wolf getting in over her like Mushroomguy12 Mushroomguy12 said above.
 
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Mushroomguy12

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You know, if she wasn't going to get in either way, I would have rather she got AT'd at November so she could at least build a fanbase (which is important if you want your character to get a chance in future games).

It was really tragic how Krystal was Assist Trophied right away at E3 2018, honestly. If she had been AT'd in November like Isaac, yeah, it still would have sucked, and the short term blowback at the time would have been even more crushing, but in the long term she could have at least built a fanbase (Isaac's thread is now sitting at a pretty 45,000 replies and more than 1000 pages and 2 million views and is the top active support thread on the site, that's how much a five month difference can make.) Even Ashley being AT'd in August was a better fate (her thread was climbing to 8000 replies until she got shot down in the August direct, more than double this thread, with just two months in difference). You can even see this in the difference between different Fire Emblem characters, for example, Black Knight got Assist Trophied in November and his thread is at 18 pages, while Lyn was Assist Trophied right away in June and her thread just barely got past 7 pages. Another example is with Zelda characters, Skull Kid's AT wasn't shown off until November, while Midna's was shown off right away in June, and look at the difference in sizes in their support threads. The only real exception to this is Waluigi (since he had enough popularity in Mario Kart and the like outside of Smash to back him up, although his thread literally got shut down, his popularity mainly grew outside of Smashboards).

At the end of the day, Ultimate's Base game speculation was much shorter than Brawl or Smash 4's so building a fanbase in that critical 5 month period between E3 2018 and the final November Direct was really essential for lots of first parties.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Thats what I figured. It was have been a shock when one of the most speculated/popular characters didn't get it.
A lot of fanbases at the time at the end of Brawl speculation were ****** about Wolf's inclusion. Afterwards, a lot of those fanbases collapsed and never gain back the momentum or drive they had during Brawl speculation since.
 

Dinoman96

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You know, if she wasn't going to get in either way, I would have rather she got AT'd at November so she could at least build a fanbase (which is important if you want your character to get a chance in future games).

It was really tragic how Krystal was Assist Trophied right away at E3 2018, honestly. If she had been AT'd in November like Isaac, yeah, it still would have sucked, and the short term blowback at the time would have been even more crushing, but in the long term she could have at least built a fanbase (Isaac's thread is now sitting at a pretty 45,000 replies and more than 1000 pages and 2 million views and is the top active support thread on the site, that's how much a five month difference can make.) Even Ashley being AT'd in August was a better fate (her thread was climbing to 8000 replies until she got shot down in the August direct, more than double this thread, with just two months in difference). You can even see this in the difference between different Fire Emblem characters, for example, Black Knight got Assist Trophied in November and his thread is at 18 pages, while Lyn was Assist Trophied right away in June and her thread just barely got past 7 pages. Another example is with Zelda characters, Skull Kid's AT wasn't shown off until November, while Midna's was shown off right away in June, and look at the difference in sizes in their support threads. The only real exception to this is Waluigi (since he had enough popularity in Mario Kart and the like outside of Smash to back him up, although his thread literally got shut down, his popularity mainly grew outside of Smashboards).

At the end of the day, Ultimate's Base game speculation was much shorter than Brawl or Smash 4's so building a fanbase in that critical 5 month period between E3 2018 and the final November Direct was really essential for lots of first parties.
Honestly? I legimately think it was a good thing that Krystal fans were given closure as soon as possible, rather than getting their hopes up for several months on end only to be violently struck down at the very end. I wish the same had happened with the likes of Isaac and Shadow. It's just better to put these fandoms out of their misery right away rather than prolonging the inevitable.

I think the most cruel thing was literally dragging out the Geno outfit for two whole years. Maybe weird licensing issues prevented it but I really do think Geno should of just been made an assist trophy in the base game to provide closure to his fans right then and there. Alternatively try to squeeze in the outfit with Hero or something, just whatever was the fastest and efficient way to bear the news to his fanbase.
 

Mushroomguy12

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Honestly? I legimately think it was a good thing that Krystal fans were given closure as soon as possible, rather than getting their hopes up for several months on end only to be violently struck down at the very end. I wish the same had happened with the likes of Isaac and Shadow. It's just better to put these fandoms out of their misery right away rather than prolonging the inevitable.

I think the most cruel thing was literally dragging out the Geno outfit for two whole years. Maybe weird licensing issues prevented it but I really do think Geno should of just been made an assist trophy in the base game to provide closure to his fans right then and there. Alternatively try to squeeze in the outfit with Hero or something, just whatever was the fastest and efficient way to bear the news to his fanbase.
In the short term, yes it was more cruel, but in the long term, just look at the sizes of this thread and the Isaac/Geno thread and how many more people probably joined the fanbase. More people means louder demand, and that's critical if you want your character to be added in future games.
 
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Fluttershy64

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In the short term, yes it was more cruel, but in the long term, just look at the sizes of this thread and the Isaac/Geno thread and how many more people probably joined the fanbase. More people means louder demand, and that's critical if you want your character to be added in future games.
I see both sides to it. If she wasn't revealed at E3 2018, I feel like she would have built up tons of momentum like Issac. But personality, if she was always going to be an AT, I would rather rip the band-aid off right way to avoid getting my hopes up for a long time and getting them destroyed.
 

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Speaking of the Brawl days of speculation, what was the general speculation for Krystal chances to be in Brawl and the reaction to her not being in the game.
As someone that was there, the big factors I remember at the time were an accidental leak by the voice actress Alesia Glidewell crediting her voicework in Brawl (she also did ZSS and Knuckle Joe) having Krystal on it at a time we knew nothing about the hidden taunt codecs, and those who chose to not believe the roster leaks at the time (from either confusion or frustration that some of their favorites didn't make it).

Specifically it wasn't just Wolf, people were angry over R.O.B. initially (some thought it was actually ROB 64 since we had previously seen that R.O.B. was a fodder enemy in Subspace). The same way others, like Ridley fans, quickly denounced that characters they didn't care for were easily wastes of slots (not just newcomers, seeing so many characters still be "semi-clones" was seen as disappointing).

Apart from that, I also remember some being underwhelmed with how little female characters were playable at the time. The only newcomer was another version of Samus, who was tied to the original with a gimmick (much like Zelda/Sheik at the time) so they wouldn't even show up on the roster select screen (you'd pick ZSS by holding shield while picking Samus, or after enabling Smash Balls). Krystal did get a trophy along with the taunt codecs, but in comparison it seemed like she was tucked away/easily missed as opposed to others (even Palutena shows up briefly in Subspace cutscenes/Pit's Final Smash in that game).

All in all, the fanbase felt let down for building itself up/feeling entitled. At the time the Star Fox series was in that weird place (just after Command), not feeling like it was a doomed franchise. It wasn't until later with SF64 on 3DS that it got another game, then Zero later kinda doing what it did to cement the "64 but again" bias that left us feeling even more let down that we aren't really moving forward with the series in terms of story. Krystal isn't some "last chance/Smash is all they really have left" character, or at least most us would say/feel, their popularity can't really be denied (despite a lot of detractors wrongly attaching her to the "downfall in the franchise").

I was absolutely ecstatic they got the assist trophy role after years of not being in any of her own series' games, even if it's not the full thing we want. She's still one of my most wanted going forward, and I only see it as a positive that she has this foothold in Smash now. Plus seeing her in Smash Flash 2, maybe in other fan things someday (if Wolf in Melee is any indication) and eventually seeing another SF game with her wouldn't be so out of the question.
 

Mushroomguy12

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Apart from that, I also remember some being underwhelmed with how little female characters were playable at the time. The only newcomer was another version of Samus, who was tied to the original with a gimmick (much like Zelda/Sheik at the time) so they wouldn't even show up on the roster select screen (you'd pick ZSS by holding shield while picking Samus, or after enabling Smash Balls).
Also didn't help that after the game's release, dataminers found that there actually were more female newcomers planned found in the game's code in the form of Dixie Kong and Toon Zelda/Toon Shiek (presumed to be Tetra), both of which happened to be the only clear characters in the "Forbidden 7" that haven't made it to this day (since the rest were Melee veterans that returned in Smash 4 or had unclear codenames).
 

Fluttershy64

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Apart from that, I also remember some being underwhelmed with how little female characters were playable at the time. The only newcomer was another version of Samus, who was tied to the original with a gimmick (much like Zelda/Sheik at the time) so they wouldn't even show up on the roster select screen (you'd pick ZSS by holding shield while picking Samus, or after enabling Smash Balls). Krystal did get a trophy along with the taunt codecs, but in comparison it seemed like she was tucked away/easily missed as opposed to others (even Palutena shows up briefly in Subspace cutscenes/Pit's Final Smash in that game).
I remember during Smash 4 when we were getting a lot of female characters people thought that Krystal would be a great candidate. Kind of surprised it did not happen.
 
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MorbidMiraj

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I can't help but wonder if Sakurai's focus on third parties is one of the reasons more long-desired characters like Krystal, Dixie, and Isaac never got in, and why characters like Ridley and K Rool took forever to be included.

With the hype/marketing/DLC sales cycle with Smash being so focused on getting more and more big names outside of Nintendo's first party, this makes me think that the next Smash will either have to significantly par down and rebuild the roster from the ground-up, or it'll go full blown Nintendo Vs and just be nothing but third parties vs the core Smash 4/Ultimate roster from now on.
 
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