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Team Star Fox call in Krystal for Smash!

MorbidMiraj

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I remember some speculation that the reason Krystal didn't get into Brawl was because Sega waffled about Sonic's inclusion, and then agreed to his inclusion at the last minute, upending development scheduling. This resulted in Wolf being a compromise Star Fox pick, since they wanted a third Star Fox rep, and he was easier to include as a clone. As Sakurai said in an old interview, it was Wolf or nothing at all.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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I can't help but wonder if Sakurai's focus on third parties is one of the reasons more long-desired characters like Krystal, Dixie, and Isaac never got in, and why characters like Ridley and K Rool took forever to be included.

With the hype/marketing/DLC sales cycle with Smash being so focused on getting more and more big names outside of Nintendo's first party, this makes me think that the next Smash will either have to significantly par down and rebuild the roster from the ground-up, or it'll go full blown Nintendo Vs and just be nothing but third parties vs the core Smash 4/Ultimate roster from now on.
I think it's more Nintendo getting in the way from these long desired fan requests from getting in and wanting to promote other characters relevant to new and upcoming games they're releasing. That's why we get a billion Fire Emblem characters because Nintendo wants to promote the **** out of Fire Emblem.

I remember some speculation that the reason Krystal didn't get into Brawl was because Sega waffled about Sonic's inclusion, and then agreed to his inclusion at the last minute, upending development scheduling.
I think you're getting Krystal mixed with Mewtwo in that story as Mewtwo would have gotten in if Sakurai didn't try attempt to contact Sega in the last minute to get Sonic in. That was why Mewtwo was cut from Brawl from what I've heard.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Anyone seen this hilarious art of Krystal meeting K. Rool and mistaking him as General Scales?



Art by SpongicX on Deviantart.

Saying this right now, if Brawl had the ability to get DLC, Krystal, Dixie Kong, and Mewtwo would’ve made it into Brawl.
This. I've totally believed this for years. Hell, I believe we might have gotten all the Forbidden 7 if Brawl had DLC.
 

Dinoman96

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Honestly I kinda doubt we'd gotten Krystal and Dixie considering how the DLC has been handeled for Smash 4 and onwards.

I definitely think Roy and Mewtwo would of come back, especially since they came back for Smash 4 DLC. Maybe Dr. Mario as well? Though I imagine he'd have to be given the Roy treatment and made into more of a semi-clone to be more enticing as a DLC character.

Newcomer wise, I imagine Mega Man would of been first in line. Hell, maybe if the Wii had supported proper DLC, Sakurai and the team would of held back Sonic for it instead of jamming him into the base game at the last minute.
 
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RetrogamerMax

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Honestly I kinda doubt we'd gotten Krystal and Dixie considering how the DLC has been handeled for Smash 4 and onwards.

I definitely think Roy and Mewtwo would of come back, especially since they came back for Smash 4 DLC. Maybe Dr. Mario as well? Though I imagine he'd have to be given the Roy treatment and made into more of a semi-clone to be more enticing as a DLC character.

Newcomer wise, I imagine Mega Man would of been first in line. Hell, maybe if the Wii had supported proper DLC, Sakurai and the team would of held back Sonic for it instead of jamming him into the base game at the last minute.
I think had DLC been a thing in Brawl, Sonic would have been DLC like you said and Mewtwo or Roy would have been in base game instead of Sonic while the rest of the Forbidden 7 would have ended up as DLC as well instead of just getting cut.
 

Dinoman96

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Outside of the veterans, I really doubt the Forbidden 7 would of wounded up as DLC.

Toon Zelda/Sheik would of just been clones/semi-clones, and unless it's a veteran character that people already have attachment to, I don't see those ever being premium DLC you have to pay $5.99 for. Plusle and Minun only kinda sorta made sense to add back in 2005 when Gen 3 was still new but would of felt really outdated in 2008 as DLC characters, and as for Dixie...well, let's be real here. She was mostly inactive outside of some spinoffs and was seemingly only considered by Sakurai under the pretense of her being a partner for Diddy, so I don't think she would be a priority.

She had a new starring role in Tropical Freeze in 2014 and that still wasn't enough for her to be priortised for Smash 4's DLC.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Outside of the veterans, I really doubt the Forbidden 7 would of wounded up as DLC.

Toon Zelda/Sheik would of just been clones/semi-clones, and unless it's a veteran character that people already have attachment to, I don't see those ever being premium DLC you have to pay $5.99 for. Plusle and Minun only kinda sorta made sense to add back in 2005 when Gen 3 was still new but would of felt really outdated in 2008 as DLC characters, and as for Dixie...well, let's be real here. She was mostly inactive outside of some spinoffs and was seemingly only considered by Sakurai under the pretense of her being a partner for Diddy, so I don't think she would be a priority.

She had a new starring role in Tropical Freeze in 2014 and that still wasn't enough for her to be priortised for Smash 4's DLC.
Still, I'm postive Mewtwo, Roy and Dr. Mario would have made it in Brawl had it had DLC since those 3 all returned in Smash 4 and two of them became DLC in that game.
 

JOJONumber691

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This. I've totally believed this for years. Hell, I believe we might have gotten all the Forbidden 7 if Brawl had DLC.
Honestly, considering how Smash 3DS/Wii U and Ultimate went, here's what I think Brawl DLC would've looked like.
Dixie Kong goes first, mostly because of her Semi-Clone Status.
Terry goes Second. Mostly due to this being the First Smash Game with Third Parties. I'm mixed on whether Mega Man would make it or not. If he were to have made it in, then I think Mega Man would've been in the Second Half.
Mewtwo is in the Middle.
Krystal would've been right after and would've brought along Classic Costumes for the Rest of the Star Fox Characters.
Not sure if Mega Man would've made it, but if he was prioritized, then he would go here.
And SEGA would've probably forced the Werehog in because SEGA likes Money.
As for Stages, I think Terry, The Werehog, and Mega Man if he got prioritized would've come with Stages, probably KOF Stadium (the Cameos are still a thing here in order to Reuse the Trophy Models), Rooftop Run for the Werehog, and Wily Castle (without the Yellow Devil) for Mega Man. I think Fountain of Dreams, Flat Zone, Saffron City, Kongo Jungle (64), and Hyrule Castle would've been brought back, on top of Mario Galaxy probably getting a Stage as well. And all the DLC Stages wouldn't have any repeating Tracks. This would've been before that Philosophy Shift within the Smash Team. I'd imagine Kongo Jungle would've gotten DKC 1-3 Music, Saffron City would've gotten Some Gen 3 Music, Fountain of Dreams would've likely gotten some Kirby Air Ride Music, Flat Zone is an exception, mostly because of how Limited the Music Selection is, and Hyrule Castle would've likely received some Ocarina and Majora's Rips. Mario Galaxy would've probably had Seven or so Galaxy Rips, and it's pretty obvious what the Thrid Parties would've received. Also, PM would've been in a weird position lol.
 

Mushroomguy12

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Toon Zelda/Sheik would of just been clones/semi-clones, and unless it's a veteran character that people already have attachment to, I don't see those ever being premium DLC you have to pay $5.99 for.
Wasn't Phantom Hourglass coming out around that time? Assuming that Toon Sheik was Tetra, I could see them doing cross promotion for that. Let's not forget 3rd parties were still relatively scarce during that era anyway.
 

Fluttershy64

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With the announcement of a direct tomorrow, how does everyone feel about Krystal being potential revealed? The way I look at it is anything can happen!
 

MorbidMiraj

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For a while, Nintendo was obsessed with the Wind Waker style. They also used it for: Four Swords Adventures, Minish Cap, Spirit Tracks, Phantom Hourglass and Tri Force Heroes. I'm not surprised they prioritized Toon Link since his aesthetic is used in so many games from the Brawl/4 era.

Regarding Dixie, it is really strange that she had a big starring role again and yet she was still left out of 4 and Ultimate. Meanwhile K Rool, who hadn't appeared in a game in forever, came back. I dunno, but I'm reminded of hearing how Sakurai said there just weren't that many well-known female game characters that Smash could use, and I'm thinking "Krystal? Dixie? Birdo? Midna? Impa?" etc. - I mean, I guess Wii Fit Trainer is more iconic than them, or something. I just don't get Sakurai's thought process most of the time. Maybe all those female reps need to have swords. Then he'd be really interested suddenly.
 

MorbidMiraj

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So what do you guys think the odds of getting anything Star Fox related tomorrow are?
Nil. It's going to be Zelda anniversary, Fire Emblem anniversary, probably some usual Mario stuff... maybe if we're lucky some Metroid Prime 4 or 2D Metroid reveals (also because it's an anniversary). Nintendo seems to be holding games for anniversaries nowadays. Which means Star Fox might get something in 2023, for the 30 year anniversary of the SNES game. If we're lucky.
 

ArcaneKitsune

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Year I feel that way. Especially if Golden Sun is getting some remakes, Issac would be a good candidate for the fighter's pass.
Honestly I feel that Waluigi & Krystal would be the best choices for an AT promotion. Isaac is popular yes, but Japan doesn’t really care for the Golden Sun series as much as North America or Europe does so I don’t how well received Isaac would be in Japan if he was promoted.
 
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Fluttershy64

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Honestly I feel that Waluigi & Krystal would be the best choices for an AT promotion. Isaac is popular yes, but Japan doesn’t really care for the Golden Sun series as much as North America or Europe does so I don’t how well received Isaac would be in Japan if he was promoted.
How popular is Krystal in Europe & Japan?
 

MorbidMiraj

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Krystal would too if they announce a new Star Fox game with Krystal in it. But I don't think we'll see either though.
If this didn't work for Dixie Kong or Impa (twice with both Hyrule Warriors games), then I don't think it'll ever work for Krystal. I think Sakurai at least is aware there's fans of her though, which is why he likely made her the premiere AT as a consolation prize.
 

Dinoman96

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Well friends, it finally happened: a build of the original version of Dinosaur Planet has just been released.

 

RetrogamerMax

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Well friends, it finally happened: a build of the original version of Dinosaur Planet has just been released.

Amazing! Finally after all these years we can play Dinosaur Planet. But it's not surprising to me in was in the hands of a private collector as I think these type of people hoard and keep all these beta builds to themselves. I remember hearing one dude in the circle claiming to once having a Earthbound 64 prototype in their possossion and he said he sold it off to another collector. Why didn't he dump? Chances are the dude was lying, but if you go YouTube channel, he had a lot of rare prototypes and rare stuff in general so he might have been telling the truth. I forgot the dude's name, but it just pisses me off to see these private collectors keep these legendary beta prototypes to themselves.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Amazing! Finally after all these years we can play Dinosaur Planet. But it's not surprising to me in was in the hands of a private collector as I think these type of people hoard and keep all these beta builds to themselves. I remember hearing one dude in the circle claiming to once having a Earthbound 64 prototype in their possossion and he said he sold it off to another collector. Why didn't he dump? Chances are the dude was lying, but if you go YouTube channel, he had a lot of rare prototypes and rare stuff in general so he might have been telling the truth. I forgot the dude's name, but it just pisses me off to see these private collectors keep these legendary beta prototypes to themselves.
The 1.5 version of Resident Evil has been rife with this problem.

Incidentally is interesting that Fox was in a prominent role in Animal Crossing even back during the N64 version. Curious to see how much his part changed in the shift to the Gamecube.
 

Guybrush20X6

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No idea why people buy betas and then keep them.
But in any case, we've got it now and can comb through it.

Funny thing is, when the news dropped I was playing Rare Replay.

 

RetrogamerMax

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So I saw this walkthrough of the build of Dinosaur Planet that was dumped today and I notice some interesting differences:

- General Scales doesn't fall off the ship like he does in Star Fox Adventures and he teleports himself away after he confronts Krystal.

- Randorn gives us a little insight on the history of Dinosaur Planet and the universe and how at the beginning of time, the Krazoa ruled and how there was peace. We never got really any info on the history of Dinosaur Planet in Star Fox Adventures.

- Randorn gives you a spellbook. General Scales tore out some of the pages so you'll have to look for those to gain spells.

- It appears Krystal doesn't get trapped in that crystal by the suppose Krazoa spirit like in Star Fox Adventures as Fox first appears in the snow level where he first meets Tricky.

- Everything else besides everything above thus far seems pretty much the same as in Star Fox Adventures as Fox first meets Tricky the same way and he goes after Scales' men on those motor vehicles just like in the final version of Star Fox Adventures.

Some very interesting stuff.
 

Mushroomguy12

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Sakurai did a tweet for Star Fox's anniversary.


"Star Fox" released today in 1993 !! A great work that expresses 3D polygon shooting with Super Nintendo by installing Super FX chip. The Andorf that appears in Smash Bros. is this first edition. It tastes good. #Smash Bros. SP
 
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MorbidMiraj

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The Dinosaur Planet leak is amazing. The game is a technical marvel for the N64, and some of the texture work is really impressive. Being able to swap between Fox and Krystal is a feature I really wish they had kept for Adventures, and it's hopefully something they'd bring back if they ever did a remake. Speaking of Fox, the theory was always that when the game was reworked for Gamecube, that was when they added in Fox to replace the original co-lead Sabre, but his appearance in this N64 build throws a wrench in that theory. You can tell it's early stuff, since his face textures are nowhere near as animated as Krystal's, and most of the time the game still refers to him as Sabre. Still fascinating though. And check out that sword!
 
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