Team Star Fox call in Krystal for Smash!

[Dinoman96]

There's also the 4th burden of being associated with the series' decline.

Star Fox Adventures (Krystal's debut game) was, to a lot of people, the game that buried the Star Fox IP, after the popularity and good will it enjoyed back in the 90s with Star Fox SNES and Star Fox 64. And then afterwards Assault and Command happened, both of which not being particurly well received in their time.

It's kinda like how certain classic Sonic fans detest the character of Shadow, as they associate him with the downfall of the Sonic IP going into the Dreamcast era.

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

Of course, said person had a loli anime icon lol

If they do support loli, then that would be pretty hypocritical.

Nothing wrong with loli and nothing wrong with furry either.

Westerners just seem to have some desire to make an issue where there isn't one.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think the detractors need to watch this video to get a better idea instead of just calling Krystal furry bait:

 

[DrCoeloCephalo]

I guess it's no exaggeration to say Krystal is the Waluigi of the Star Fox series.

Miyamoto didn't make the character but a third party company did and despite said character having tons of interesting character traits and untapped potential for their series, that character retains a huge and loyal fan following.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I guess it's no exaggeration to say Krystal is the Waluigi of the Star Fox series.

Miyamoto didn't make the character but a third party company did and despite said character having tons of untapped potential for their series, that character retains a huge and loyal fan following.

Your point is pretty accurate.

 

[Doc Monocle]

Krystal has been a hugely popular choice as a newcomer for the Super Smash Bros series for years - as far back as Brawl from what I remember.

With the playable Star Fox characters in Smash all playing pretty similar she would make for an amazing opportunity for Sakurai to introduce a completely new kind of play-style via Krystal and her staff.
As a magical staff wielder and a telepath there is just a lot of potential for a super unique moveset.

Having Krystal involved in Smash Switch would not only make many people who have wanted her included for years happy but I believe it would also breath new life and excitement into the Star Fox series in general as people would be interested in this new kind of Star Fox character and the more ambitious games she was a part of like Star Fox Assault.

Krystal has been highly requested to Sakurai and Nintendo for so many years now - it is important for our voices to stay heard!

Krystal for Smash!

I am a supporter. I am not a Starfox connoisseur, but all of the characters that are significant in the main games appear to be good choices for Starfox Representatives.

 

[SDFox]

wow this thread is still going. I see a lot of new faces here as well.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

wow this thread is still going. I see a lot of new faces here as well.

Our light will never die!

 

[SDFox]

Our light will never die!

Whats been the goings on in the community? I've stopped paying attention a year or two ago when some of us moved to discord.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Wait, I can't believe this thread is still going

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Whats been the goings on in the community? I've stopped paying attention a year or two ago when some of us moved to discord.

A lot. Way too much to explain in detail over the course of what's been going on in the past 2 years in this community since the November, 2018 Smash Direct massacre.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

Whats been the goings on in the community? I've stopped paying attention a year or two ago when some of us moved to discord.

Mostly speculating, or just discussing the character. Sharing the occasional piece of Krystal-related artwork or youtube analysis. Keeping the conversation with her going, even if there's a almost 0% chance of her getting into Ultimate. Hopefully the visibility boost will help expand her fanbase and Nintendo may take notice and make her playable in a future Smash or Star Fox.

 

[Planet Cool]

I think the future looks bright for Krystal. She's not only one of the better and more animated (no pun intended) assist trophies, she's a Legend-class spirit. That probably means that Sakurai thinks highly of her. I wish her fans could make noise for her without looking like thirsty furries, though. There's definitely a stigma attached to stanning Krystal.

Does anyone else prefer her design from Star Fox Assault? If she makes playable someday, I hope that's the look they go with. Or at least make it an alt, since the tribal getup is admittedly more iconic.

 

[Ryuvain]

I think the future looks bright for Krystal. She's not only one of the better and more animated (no pun intended) assist trophies, she's a Legend-class spirit. That probably means that Sakurai thinks highly of her. I wish her fans could make noise for her without looking like thirsty furries, though. There's definitely a stigma attached to stanning Krystal.

Does anyone else prefer her design from Star Fox Assault? If she makes playable someday, I hope that's the look they go with. Or at least make it an alt, since the tribal getup is admittedly more iconic.

Try liking any animal character and not being called furry. Let's just ignore that anthro characters appeared way back to even Egyptian gods and just shame any animal characters because I heard it somewhere on the internet.

A little ranty but thats always gotten on my nerves as a fan of those types of characters. Being an animal and pet lover doesn't help either. At this point I stopped caring being called that.

Regarding Krystals outfits I could see both being added. A redesign like Wolf received would also be amazing for her assault suit.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think the future looks bright for Krystal. She's not only one of the better and more animated (no pun intended) assist trophies, she's a Legend-class spirit. That probably means that Sakurai thinks highly of her. I wish her fans could make noise for her without looking like thirsty furries, though. There's definitely a stigma attached to stanning Krystal.

Does anyone else prefer her design from Star Fox Assault? If she makes playable someday, I hope that's the look they go with. Or at least make it an alt, since the tribal getup is admittedly more iconic.

I think Krystal fans won't be as vocal again like they were in the Brawl days until Krystal returns to the Star Fox series which hopefully happens sooner whether than later. And yes, I greatly prefer her Assault design over her Adventures or Command designs.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

I think Krystal fans won't be as vocal again like they were in the Brawl days until Krystal returns to the Star Fox series which hopefully happens sooner whether than later. And yes, I greatly prefer her Assault design over her Adventures or Command designs.

It could also be a K. Rool situation where Nintendo notices that fans are upset about her absence and decide to bring her back. They ignored K. Rool for a long while but brought him back when they realized fans missed him. Sakurai and the staff that run the Smash website seem to acknowledge her, as they made her the featured AT essentially. There were rumors that Miyamoto and staff laughed off the idea of putting Krystal into SF Zero, but I think everyone is collectively laughing back at them over that game. Not that Krystal's inclusion would've fixed the game's problems. K. Rool and Krystal could be examples of dormant fan favorites being brought back in Smash, possibly leading to their reintroduction into their own franchises. We shall see!

 

[RetrogamerMax]

It could also be a K. Rool situation where Nintendo notices that fans are upset about her absence and decide to bring her back. They ignored K. Rool for a long while but brought him back when they realized fans missed him. Sakurai and the staff that run the Smash website seem to acknowledge her, as they made her the featured AT essentially. There were rumors that Miyamoto and staff laughed off the idea of putting Krystal into SF Zero, but I think everyone is collectively laughing back at them over that game. Not that Krystal's inclusion would've fixed the game's problems. K. Rool and Krystal could be examples of dormant fan favorites being brought back in Smash, possibly leading to their reintroduction into their own franchises. We shall see!

Hopefully so. I hope Krystal's popularity and Zero's failure is enough to wake up Nintendo to put her in the next Star Fox game or in Smash Bros. as DLC or both.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

Try liking any animal character and not being called furry. Let's just ignore that anthro characters appeared way back to even Egyptian gods and just shame any animal characters because I heard it somewhere on the internet.

A little ranty but thats always gotten on my nerves as a fan of those types of characters. Being an animal and pet lover doesn't help either. At this point I stopped caring being called that.

Regarding Krystals outfits I could see both being added. A redesign like Wolf received would also be amazing for her assault suit.

Agreed, and it's pretty silly in the 2020s for people to attack furries, when they're actually a pretty popular, respected community. They have big conventions that bring a lot of revenue to cities, and they do massive charity drives. They also are very LGBTQ+ friendly. Furries have also broadened out to more SFW and fanart stuff, and it's quite common to see anime or pokemon or videogame artists also attend furry cons or vice versa, since these geeky subcultures all overlap. The people still trying to stigmatize furries are pretty ignorant at this point, because the fandom is way more diverse and mainstream nowadays.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Agreed, and it's pretty silly in the 2020s for people to attack furries, when they're actually a pretty popular, respected community. They have big conventions that bring a lot of revenue to cities, and they do massive charity drives. They also are very LGBTQ+ friendly. Furries have also broadened out to more SFW and fanart stuff, and it's quite common to see anime or pokemon or videogame artists also attend furry cons or vice versa, since these geeky subcultures all overlap. The people still trying to stigmatize furries are pretty ignorant at this point, because the fandom is way more diverse and mainstream nowadays.

Detractors in the Smash community always find any excuse they can make for any character they don't want.

 

[Fluttershy64]

Detractors in the Smash community always find any excuse they can make for any character they don't want.

I don't know a single character in which the entire community would be happy to see in smash.

 

[Planet Cool]

Let's not assume Nintendo doesn't like Krystal. They put her in Assault and Command, after all. She isn't in Zero because that's another retelling of Star Fox/Star Fox 64, before she joined the team. I think Zero's director even said he'd be happy to put her in a sequel.

The question is, can we expect another Star Fox sometime this decade?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I think the problem isn't Nintendo possibly disliking Krystal but Miyamoto constantly remaking the original Star Fox over and over again which doesn't have her in it. Miyamoto is on a life mission to remake Star Fox on the SNES a billion times.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

Hopefully so. I hope Krystal's popularity and Zero's failure is enough to wake up Nintendo to put her in the next Star Fox game or in Smash Bros. as DLC or both.

I think the problem isn't Nintendo possibly disliking Krystal but Miyamoto constantly remaking the original Star Fox over and over again which doesn't have her in it. Miyamoto is on a life mission to remake Star Fox on the SNES a billion times.

I think it's partly because only the SNES original and Star Fox 64 were titles (before Zero) that Miyamoto had any major supervisory role in. All the other sequels were pretty much outsourced work with likely minimal input from him. I'm frankly not surprised he then decided to just keep remaking 64 (and by extension SNES) over and over again. Really though, SF643DS and SF Zero are basically remakes of 64 way more than they are remakes of SNES.

I remember him saying that Star Fox 2 would never be released. Then the SNES Classic team wanted it as a bonus game, and got their way. There's a whole kinda shady history of Miyamoto canning SF2 at the last second, and using Argonaut's ideas for Star Fox 64. There's also him reportedly using Argonaut's pitch for a 3D Yoshi game (which later became Croc) along with some of the ideas for the walker mode in SF2 to develop into Mario 64. But I digress...

I think it's interesting that for a very long time, SF64 purists and game journalists have pined for a Star Fox 64 part 2. They basically got that twice over - the 3DS remake and SF Zero, which is like a remix of 64 in a lot of ways. Despite the gimmicks (3D, gyro controls, second screens), neither game did very well. 643DS only crossed a million sales after being on the market for nearly a decade, and only then when it was re-released as a Player's Choice title. SF Zero was the worst selling entry in the franchise, despite having a pack-in title and releasing for the Wii U with little else to play on the system that year.

I think it's pretty clear Star Fox needs to move past the trappings of the 90s rail shooters and go into new territory if it wants to survive. And while Krystal's inclusion wouldn't have helped Zero, I think it being seen as "just another remake of 64" didn't do it any favors either. Maybe now that Miyamoto is working on theme parks and Mario movies, he won't be there to fixate on remaking his 90s tech showcase game over and over again, and hopefully younger developers that grew up with Adventures and Assault can use fresh ideas and perspectives to revitalize the series (and bring Krystal back too).

 

[Planet Cool]

I think it's fine for Star Fox to still be a rail shooter as long as they actually tell new stories.

 

[Fluttershy64]

I think it's partly because only the SNES original and Star Fox 64 were titles (before Zero) that Miyamoto had any major supervisory role in. All the other sequels were pretty much outsourced work with likely minimal input from him. I'm frankly not surprised he then decided to just keep remaking 64 (and by extension SNES) over and over again. Really though, SF643DS and SF Zero are basically remakes of 64 way more than they are remakes of SNES.

I remember him saying that Star Fox 2 would never be released. Then the SNES Classic team wanted it as a bonus game, and got their way. There's a whole kinda shady history of Miyamoto canning SF2 at the last second, and using Argonaut's ideas for Star Fox 64. There's also him reportedly using Argonaut's pitch for a 3D Yoshi game (which later became Croc) along with some of the ideas for the walker mode in SF2 to develop into Mario 64. But I digress...

I think it's interesting that for a very long time, SF64 purists and game journalists have pined for a Star Fox 64 part 2. They basically got that twice over - the 3DS remake and SF Zero, which is like a remix of 64 in a lot of ways. Despite the gimmicks (3D, gyro controls, second screens), neither game did very well. 643DS only crossed a million sales after being on the market for nearly a decade, and only then when it was re-released as a Player's Choice title. SF Zero was the worst selling entry in the franchise, despite having a pack-in title and releasing for the Wii U with little else to play on the system that year.

I think it's pretty clear Star Fox needs to move past the trappings of the 90s rail shooters and go into new territory if it wants to survive. And while Krystal's inclusion wouldn't have helped Zero, I think it being seen as "just another remake of 64" didn't do it any favors either. Maybe now that Miyamoto is working on theme parks and Mario movies, he won't be there to fixate on remaking his 90s tech showcase game over and over again, and hopefully younger developers that grew up with Adventures and Assault can use fresh ideas and perspectives to revitalize the series (and bring Krystal back too).

If you were to go away from the 90s rail shooter, how would you take the series?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Star Fox has become an interesting (albeit depressing) series in that its recent forms essentially please no real segment of the fanbase. Those really into the story and characters of Adventures/Assault have seen their universe disappear via a reboot, Fans that wanted a third person action/adventure evolution of the series have seen those hopes fade. And even those that wanted a continuation of SF64 gameplay specifically have gotten a 3DS port and a Wii U game that not only had less interesting level design than the 64 but also centered on an intrusive camera/reticle gimmick that was literally solving a problem that didn't exist.

Some game franchises focus on fulfilling one segment of players to the detriment of others, Star Fox has managed the rare feat of alienating everyone in favor of an imaginary audience Nintendo apparently believes doesn't want any of the most notable elements from the past games.

 

[Ryuvain]

If you were to go away from the 90s rail shooter, how would you take the series?

What if Star Fox went the action/futuristic action shooter route? This may be my Assault bias speaking but a title based on 3D flying and aerial combat equally split with ground based laser gun combat.

It would be somewhat like Star Wars in how those games play. That's kind of what assault tried to do, but with more depth and bigger missions and levels. Maybe even exploring space like Atlas.

 

[Fluttershy64]

What if Star Fox went the action/futuristic action shooter route? This may be my Assault bias speaking but a title based on 3D flying and aerial combat equally split with ground based laser gun combat.

It would be somewhat like Star Wars in how those games play. That's kind of what assault tried to do, but with more depth and bigger missions and levels. Maybe even exploring space like Atlas.

That would be cool. I would add a mix of the rail shooter (have it traveling from planet to planet), the ground based laser gun combat. They could show off all kinds of new weapons if they went this way.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

If you were to go away from the 90s rail shooter, how would you take the series?

There's a lot of possibilities, but I think whatever they do, it has has has to focus on character and story significantly more than the series has in the past 10 years.

Personally I would like to see a greater focus on third person action. When I heard Platinum was co-developing a Star Fox game, I was expecting something akin to Vanquish or Metal Gear Rising - a bonkers third person sci-fi action game. There have often be calls for a "Furry Mass Effect", so a third person shooter with heavy RPG elements. You could even go the strategy route and do a Mario+Rabbids or X-COM-style tactical shooter.

If Arwing combat must be the focus, then I'd still heavily flesh out the story and characters, and go for something more like Wing Commander or X-Wing/TIE-Fighter. The issue with that is that those games are essentially SIM games, and I don't think that genre is popular enough to do well at retail unless your name is Star Wars.

I think Star Fox's appeal and longevity in the public consciousness is due to its iconic and endearing characters and its amazing music. I think if it weren't for those things, the series would've just been yet another early 3D rail shooter from the 90s that vanished into history.

The rail shooter genre is just not popular anymore, despite how good the games can be. Sin & Punishment 2 came out on Nintendo's best selling home console ever, and it flopped so hard that Treasure effectively went bankrupt. Even Sakurai, one of the most famous and successful developers in history, did a rail shooter with Kid Icarus and it sold just over a million copies on the very popular 3DS. There's just not a large enough audience for those styles of games anymore, and I think Star Fox should run with its strengths and think outside the box (or Arwing) if it wants to be commercially viable.

 

[MorbidMiraj]

Star Fox has become an interesting (albeit depressing) series in that its recent forms essentially please no real segment of the fanbase. Those really into the story and characters of Adventures/Assault have seen their universe disappear via a reboot, Fans that wanted a third person action/adventure evolution of the series have seen those hopes fade. And even those that wanted a continuation of SF64 gameplay specifically have gotten a 3DS port and a Wii U game that not only had less interesting level design than the 64 but also centered on an intrusive camera/reticle gimmick that was literally solving a problem that didn't exist.

This, very much so. Nintendo's senior staff that created the franchise outsourced it for so long they became completely out of touch with what people want. Nintendo does this with other series too (Donkey Kong for instance). Unless they develop games in-house consistently for decades, they lose sight of what people want. It doesn't help that Nintendo of Japan is notoriously insular and obtuse.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As far as Star Fox being strictly a space shooter there's two paths ahead in that regard; it goes big or it goes very focused.

With the former it can dive into becoming a full blown open world space setting; essentially a more varied Starlink with both main quest and side quest missions while incorporating gradual updates/features to the Arwing. Throw in the equivalent of BotW style shrines where you have rail shooter like levels for a bit of old school challenge. Finally, maybe there's also a choice of pilot which will of course affect which specific strengths and abilities one has when playing.

The latter way is just outright embracing the rail shooter origins and accepting its status as a more modest series (perhaps with a price to match). It takes the Sonic Mania route of being a shorter game that specifically emphasizing replay value via medals and multiple paths, perhaps with some innovations along the way. In that sense there's a really intriguing video that posits some very interesting ideas of evolving the core experience without fundamentally changing it:

 

[MorbidMiraj]

As far as Star Fox being strictly a space shooter there's two paths ahead in that regard; it goes big or it goes very focused.

With the former it can dive into becoming a full blown open world space setting; essentially a more varied Starlink with both main quest and side quest missions while incorporating gradual updates/features to the Arwing. Throw in the equivalent of BotW style shrines where you have rail shooter like levels for a bit of old school challenge. Finally, maybe there's also a choice of pilot which will of course affect which specific strengths and abilities one has when playing.

The latter way is just outright embracing the rail shooter origins and accepting its status as a more modest series (perhaps with a price to match). It takes the Sonic Mania route of being a shorter game that specifically emphasizing replay value via medals and multiple paths, perhaps with some innovations along the way. In that sense there's a really intriguing video that posits some very interesting ideas of evolving the core experience without fundamentally changing it:

I think a Star Fox 3 like what this artist did would work really well as an e-shop release: https://twitter.com/GeroVort/status/1344909664367091713?s=20

But I could only see it working as a one-off novelty. I doubt there would be a large enough appetite for a continuing series of "retro/demake" games.

If they want the series to be mainstream and longterm successful, I don't know if ship-based combat would work. Starlink was a big budget, open world Star Fox-ish game and it was a massive flop. I think the era of Schumps, whether 2D sidescrolling, rail shooters, or SIM games, is pretty much only a niche thing now. I also think the idea of getting Ace Combat devs to make Star Fox wouldn't work because Ace Combat is very focused on military tech enthusiasts, so it's not a game that would necessarily see success if it weren't exactly what it already was.

 

[Fluttershy64]

I think a Star Fox 3 like what this artist did would work really well as an e-shop release: https://twitter.com/GeroVort/status/1344909664367091713?s=20

But I could only see it working as a one-off novelty. I doubt there would be a large enough appetite for a continuing series of "retro/demake" games.

If they want the series to be mainstream and longterm successful, I don't know if ship-based combat would work. Starlink was a big budget, open world Star Fox-ish game and it was a massive flop. I think the era of Schumps, whether 2D sidescrolling, rail shooters, or SIM games, is pretty much only a niche thing now. I also think the idea of getting Ace Combat devs to make Star Fox wouldn't work because Ace Combat is very focused on military tech enthusiasts, so it's not a game that would necessarily see success if it weren't exactly what it already was.

That would be cool. Maybe a platform mix with the rail shooter would be a hit. I don't think Starfox as an open world game like BOTW, would work.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Wait, I can't believe this thread is still going

Why not? Isaac is an Assist Trophy just like us, and his thread literally the largest active support thread on the site. The real question we should be asking is why this thread is still so small in comparison.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Why not? Isaac is an Assist Trophy just like us, and his thread literally the largest active support thread on the site. The real question we should be asking is why this thread is still so small in comparison.

Isaac had more time for his Ultimate support base to grow, seeing as how it took months after Ultimate's reveal for his AT to be shown as opposed to immediately when Ultimate was properly shown off.

 

[Fluttershy64]

Isaac had more time for his Ultimate support base to grow, seeing as how it took months after Ultimate's reveal for his AT to be shown as opposed to immediately when Ultimate was properly shown off.

Plus for Issac there was a lot of things pointing for him to be a playable character.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Why not? Isaac is an Assist Trophy just like us, and his thread literally the largest active support thread on the site. The real question we should be asking is why this thread is still so small in comparison.

Comic Book Guy: Because people don't want to believe any Assist Trophy has a ghost of a chance besides Waluigi and Isaac. "But Comic Book Guy, that isn't true!" It's... ONE HUNDRED PERCENT TRUE AS FACT!!!

Isaac had more time for his Ultimate support base to grow, seeing as how it took months after Ultimate's reveal for his AT to be shown as opposed to immediately when Ultimate was properly shown off.

Still, they have managed to go a extra 200 pages after his Assist Trophy was announced. Why can't we stay just as active and since we are in the same boat?

Plus for Issac there was a lot of things pointing for him to be a playable character.

Comic Book Guy: A lot of things people THINKING pointed to Isaac. The Rathalos picture was just a funny coincidence and the Grinch leak took most of us in as fools.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

A fan artists take on Krystal's old concept art.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[RetrogamerMax]

A fan artists take on Krystal's old concept art.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

OMG! I love this design more than the Star Fox one and Dinosaur Planet's. It's like the best of both worlds. I wish this fan design was official.

 

[Fluttershy64]

Comic Book Guy: A lot of things people THINKING pointed to Isaac. The Rathalos picture was just a funny coincidence and the Grinch leak took most of us in as fools.

Yeah. I also remember when a direct was delayed due to an earthquake in Japan. People speculated that part of the reason was because Issac was going to be revealed, and they delayed it because Issac splash art was going to be something like "Issac Shakes Things Up." It was proven wrong, but I remember that theory going around.