TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[Sieguest]

LOL what just happened?

@marth13- the IC's wouldn't stomp the pikmin so much as chest kick and crush...
also if you have 10 pikmin and each can lift 10 times their weight then you have a lot of force to protect Olimar...even if only for a small amount of time...

@kalle3004- just throwing the pikmin won't help, the pikmin will have to cling to it's opponet and proceed to attack it before any damage is done...this excludes the purple, which is sorta like the cannonball of the group...and white's are like sacrificial pikmin...

@sammy p- Olimar could pull more pikmin as his ranks are defeated...if an onion is around...

either way though...even with pikmin coming at the IC's...the climbers could use the rope to sweep ground pikmin and the hammer to bat away pikmin in the air...then they could closeline olimar with the rope and yeah just finish it...

 

[uhmuzing]

Er, I'm not sure how much of an impact this'll make, if any, but watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6aoGmFuuzc&feature=related

Stop at 6:37! They can cough up toxins....

 

[Sieguest]

Er, I'm not sure how much of an impact this'll make, if any, but watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6aoGmFuuzc&feature=related

Stop at 6:37! They can cough up toxins....

I can't watch the whole thing...I have to go back to class...
but I did fast forward to 6:37....
Dang....but how will the toxins get inside the body...it have to go through pores...and the only area not really covered by the IC's is there face...an aerial advance would make a face shot hard...

 

[justaway12]

Er, I'm not sure how much of an impact this'll make, if any, but watch this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6aoGmFuuzc&feature=related

Stop at 6:37! They can cough up toxins....

Doesn't that only come from white Pikimen, it looks like it does considering it's attribute, JOE! said there is only 2 white Pikimen, and it doesn't look like it covers a lot of the area, only if the ICs are very close, unless this type poison was mentioned before in the bulbasaur debate or something.

 

[uhmuzing]

The whites (still arguable) and purples seem to be the most useful right now.

Regarding Olimar's defense, I'd think that he would keep a burly purple with him just for a last resort. An IC could be taken out with a good shot to the head from a purple, but it depends alot on whether Olimar can aim precisely. In his games, Olimar can throw pikmin at the exact place he wishes to, but since this is based on the player's ability to do so, I'm not sure if its canon...

Another thing is that part of the ICs' advantage is that there is two of them. If one is taken out, the other can be overwhelmed by the pikmin surrounding him/her. Also, Belay is sorta useless alone. Also, a fair startegy to take out a Climber is to, like I said before, hit him/her with a Purple. Even if its not a head shot, it could still knock him/her down for a white pikmin to rush over an cough/bite the Climber on the ground. I say bite, because it has to cough out of some kind of opening; a nose or mouth being the possible opening.

EDIT: It doesn't cover alot of area, and yes its for white pikmin only. But breathing into an IC's face would probably get it done.

 

[JOE!]

k, Whites have a poison breath weapon...


Im still vying for reds to have a kindof "beak"

 

[uhmuzing]

k, Whites have a poison breath weapon...


Im still vying for reds to have a kindof "beak"

That would help; its just, I've never seen a pikmin attack with its nose... Pikmin attack with theit stems.

Hey, BTW, are these flower, bud, or leaf pikmin?

 

[arch knight]

That would help; its just, I've never seen a pikmin attack with its nose... Pikmin attack with theit stems.

Hey, BTW, are these flower, bud, or leaf pikmin?

Finally someone else posts about the pikmin evolution scale.

And Purple pikmin can carry 20x there weight i believe since 5 purple can carry an object that would require 10 standard pikmin.
Enough with the cleats ICs are short and stubby their kick would be very close range and with pikmin swarms it would be very ineffective.
Having those mallets would take a great amount of fatigue to follow to smash pikmin. IC would get tired after trying to smash them out..
The rope is no good if they are apart they would need to be together to prep the rope and running at pikmin hoping to clothesline them wouldnt work it would just hit their stems which are flexible and just roll over them.

IF the pikmin are flowered they are faster and stronger doing far more damage than stages 2 or 1 They would have heightened senses making it harder to smash them as they dodge and resist IC hammers

 

[uhmuzing]

Finally someone else posts about the pikmin evolution scale.

And Purple pikmin can carry 20x there weight i believe since 5 purple can carry an object that would require 10 standard pikmin.
Enough with the cleats ICs are short and stubby their kick would be very close range and with pikmin swarms it would be very ineffective.
Having those mallets would take a great amount of fatigue to follow to smash pikmin. IC would get tired after trying to smash them out..
The rope is no good if they are apart they would need to be together to prep the rope and running at pikmin hoping to clothesline them wouldnt work it would just hit their stems which are flexible and just roll over them

You make some good points! Actually, Purples are 10x the strength of the others, not twice. But that's a bit unrealistic....

If the pikmin are at their last stage, the flowers, then they can run very fast - almost as fast as Olimar himself. Whites especially are very fast and mobile. And you're right - those hammers are pretty big. A good and bad thing.

The rope could work; they would just have to throw it high enough over the stems.

 

[JOE!]

id assume he has flowered...

 

[justaway12]

Finally someone else posts about the pikmin evolution scale.

And Purple pikmin can carry 20x there weight i believe since 5 purple can carry an object that would require 10 standard pikmin.
Enough with the cleats ICs are short and stubby their kick would be very close range and with pikmin swarms it would be very ineffective.

Only 2 of each kind, only 10.

Having those mallets would take a great amount of fatigue to follow to smash pikmin. IC would get tired after trying to smash them out..

Well the Ice climbers climb mountains, or whatever the block things are, that should make them very fit, and full of stamina, shouldn't it?

@Flowers: Wouldn't it just be leaf, eventually turn to bud and etc. like normal?

Just saw JOE!'s edit, Kk, I guess.

 

[uhmuzing]

Only 2 of each kind, only 10.

10 is still more than two, and we're still evaluating how strong the Pikmin are.

@Flowers: Wouldn't it just be leaf, eventually turn to bud and etc. like normal?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B]

That, or 3, 3, and 4. All flowers might be considered unfair or biased.

 

[arch knight]

Then this would give Olimar the advantage have an elite group of pikmin of 2 of each type There would be less time for IC to react If a pikmin latches onto one they have to try to shake them off which would be difficult in their mountain gear the parkas are fuzzy like wool giving pikmin more grip. The ICs would have to try to remove them with one hand due to their mallets or drop it to use both all while trying to fight the pikmin on the ground charging them. Pikmin can take away said mallet during the confusion and all the ICs attacks are mallet based. GAME set.

 

[uhmuzing]

Yes, taking the hammer would be an effective tactic. OLimar could use it if they brought it to him.

 

[†Slader7†]

I still think the ICs will win because they have cleats which can step on those little pikmin and the fact that oxygen is poisonous to Olimar.

 

[adumbrodeus]

A few really important points (more like questions).


Bugs are able to carry a lot reletive to their body weight because their exoskeleton is really efficent at small sizes by allowing to have a more efficent muscular system, but at human size an equivilent system would crush them. Keeping that in mind, is it realistic for pikmen to be that strong?

Also, the toxic pikman is small, but the ability to breath a toxic cloud is very potent, what's the concentration at which it's damaging? If it's low enough, it could linger for a while, allowing them to pull an ivysaur defense in spite of their small clouds.

 

[uhmuzing]

I still think the ICs will win because they have cleats which can step on those little pikmin and the fact that oxygen is poisonous to Olimar.

Take into account that he has the advantage of numbers. The pikmin themselves are strong even though they're small. Yes, the ICs can step on them and crush their frail bodies. But the pikmin themselves are strong, fast, and intelligent. Olimar makes a great leader and is strong himself. The ICs have hammers that can possibly be taken away. Just a few pointers....

@ Adumbrodeus - the poison kills instantly as seen in Pikmin 2.

 

[arch knight]

I still think the ICs will win because they have cleats which can step on those little pikmin and the fact that oxygen is poisonous to Olimar.

The pikmin are not that small we have clarified this. Cleats are ineffective even if they are jumping the pikmin just move out of the way. they dont FF
And even if they do jump around trying to stomp on them the cleats would get stuck into the ground either breaking the spikes or holding the ICs in one place Then its back to the scenario i pointed out only the ICs cant move.

 

[†Slader7†]

And how many of each pikmin will olimar have?
Will it be 2 of each or 10 white pikmin or something?

 

[arch knight]

And how many of each pikmin will olimar have?
Will it be 2 of each or 10 white pikmin or something?

he has 2 of each.
Please read a few posts to get all that has been said

 

[justaway12]

And how many of each pikmin will olimar have?
Will it be 2 of each or 10 white pikmin or something?

2 of each.

10 is still more than two, and we're still evaluating how strong the Pikmin are.

He said Pikimen swarms, I guess I didn't get that.

 

[uhmuzing]

And how many of each pikmin will olimar have?
Will it be 2 of each or 10 white pikmin or something?

To a certain extent, I think its realistic enough for a Pikmin to carry something heavy. It might take a few to pick one up, but they can do it. besides, they probably won't try to pick a climber up; it was more of a evaluation of how much strength they can incorporate into their fight.

 

[bobson]

Regardless of how much damage they can do to the Climbers if they latch, I don't see how the Pikmin, excepting perhaps the purples, could stop the Climbers from just rushing through them and smashing Olimar's helmet for the win. They're small enough to be pushed aside or just run over. For comparison, consider two adults running through five six-year-olds each.
The purples could potentially trip them with their bulk or back up a group of Pikmin enough so that they can hold the Climbers back, but they're slow enough that the Climbers can move around them if needbe.

What can Olimar do to stop a deathrush by the Climbers?



And for future reference, the plural of Pikmin is Pikmin.

 

[adumbrodeus]

@ Adumbrodeus - the poison kills instantly as seen in Pikmin 2.

How large are the creatures that it kills instantly reletive to the pikmin? More importantly can it kill creatures as large or larger then the ice climbers instantly?


Also, notice how it disipates, it doesn't go down to the ground, it just goes outward until it's invisible, meaning it could stay in the air at potential leathal (or crippling) doses for long periods of time.

 

[uhmuzing]

How large are the creatures that it kills instantly reletive to the pikmin? More importantly can it kill creatures as large or larger then the ice climbers instantly?


Also, notice how it disipates, it doesn't go down to the ground, it just goes outward until it's invisible, meaning it could stay in the air at potential leathal (or crippling) doses for long periods of time.

Oh yes! The things that die quickly are much, much, much larger than Pikmin! And yes, the poison could linger there. However, pikmin tyhemselves seem to be immune to this poison, seeing as that the whites don't kill them.

What can Olimar do to stop a deathrush by the Climbers?

Well, for one thing, Olimar could throw the Pikmin at them instead of making a wall. Pikmin excel at latching onto things; their hands "stick" to whatever they need to hold onto. The Ice Climbers can brush them off or try to shield themselves with hammers, but Olimar can throw very fast, and the whites pose a threat to those who try to rush things through. The pikmin have a firm grip.
The purples might be selected to stay behind for a last resort, and as I said a little earlier, they really can be a good defense! Ice Climbers must not trip or slip up here, or be overwhelmed by the pikmin or subjected to toxins.

 

[bobson]

@ Adumbrodeus - the poison kills instantly as seen in Pikmin 2.

What? No it doesn't. The poison is carried inside them and only works when the Pikmin are eaten, and when that happens a big portion of the enemy's life bar is taken (and nothing happens if the Pikmin are outright killed, either, as demonstrated by the man-at-legs and those ******* missile-launching fish things). It'll only kill instantly if it's a weak enemy. Ingame, there's no other use of their poison.

It does seem like they could be able to emit some type of poisonous gas, but it wouldn't kill instantly.

Well, for one thing, Olimar could throw the Pikmin at them instead of making a wall. Pikmin excel at latching onto things; their hands "stick" to whatever they need to hold onto. The Ice Climbers can brush them off or try to shield themselves with hammers, but Olimar can throw very fast, and the whites pose a threat to those who try to rush things through. The pikmin have a firm grip.

The point is that the Climbers aren't trying to brush them off or shield themselves. They're just rushing in as fast as possible and taking any Pikmin that are thrown at them to land the critical hit that ends Olimar.

 

[uhmuzing]

What? No it doesn't. The poison is carried inside them and only works when the Pikmin are eaten, and when that happens a big portion of the enemy's life bar is taken (and nothing happens if the Pikmin are outright killed, either, as demonstrated by the man-at-legs and those ******* missile-launching fish things). It'll only kill instantly if it's a weak enemy. Ingame, there's no other use of their poison.

It does seem like they could be able to emit some type of poisonous gas, but it wouldn't kill instantly.

The poison gas is likely to be the same poisons it emits when eaten. Also, the poison doesn't always kill, yes, but considering how much larger the enemies are than the pikmin, that'd be more than enough to finish the ICs.

Keep in mind just how big the enemies are in the game.

 

[bobson]

The poison gas is likely to be the same poisons it emits when eaten. Also, the poison doesn't always kill, yes, but considering how much larger the enemies are than the pikmin, that'd be more than enough to finish the ICs.

If the Climbers ATE the whites, yeah, but that would be the maximum amount of poison all hitting the body at the same time. A gas cloud would just be small amounts.

 

[kirbywizard]

Oh yes! The things that die quickly are much, much, much larger than Pikmin! And yes, the poison could linger there. However, pikmin tyhemselves seem to be immune to this poison, seeing as that the whites don't kill them.





Well, for one thing, Olimar could throw the Pikmin at them instead of making a wall. Pikmin excel at latching onto things; their hands "stick" to whatever they need to hold onto. The Ice Climbers can brush them off or try to shield themselves with hammers, but Olimar can throw very fast, and the whites pose a threat to those who try to rush things through. The pikmin have a firm grip.
The purples might be selected to stay behind for a last resort, and as I said a little earlier, they really can be a good defense! Ice Climbers must not trip or slip up here, or be overwhelmed by the pikmin or subjected to toxins.

Purples are the most sturdy in Pikmin 2 and make a viable defense.
Also only the white pikmin are immune to poison, the other panic and suffocate. Aslo the best bet for IC if they get stuck with Pikmin it to try to shake them off, it may take a little longer then pulling them off with their hands but if they try that they will just get more pikmin stuck to them.

Also Pikmin lose their flowers and turn back to leafs when they get shaken off sometimes. Smaller enemies in Pikmin games usually get swarmed and die easier. Once one Ice Climber gets seperated he or she will most likely die.

Olimar can fight in his game, and by fight I mean just spam one simple punch. He can kill enemies just not to well.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Oh yes! The things that die quickly are much, much, much larger than Pikmin! And yes, the poison could linger there. However, pikmin tyhemselves seem to be immune to this poison, seeing as that the whites don't kill them.

Ok, how large is the largest creature it kills instantly reletive to Olimar (we've defined ICs to be as large as olimar)?


This is the crucial line of questioning here, if the white's poison proves powerful enough, this is basically Ivysaur vs. Yoshi v2.

If the Climbers ATE the whites, yeah, but that would be the maximum amount of poison all hitting the body at the same time. A gas cloud would just be small amounts.

Which is why we're trying to define how potent it is. If it's potent enough, even the small amounts emited in their breath will be instantly deadly to the ICs. That's entirely realistic because there are toxins that potent.

 

[uhmuzing]

Purples are the most sturdy in Pikmin 2 and make a viable defense.
Also only the white pikmin are immune to poison, the other panic and suffocate. Aslo the best bet for IC if they get stuck with Pikmin it to try to shake them off, it may take a little longer then pulling them off with their hands but if they try that they will just get more pikmin stuck to them.

Also Pikmin lose their flowers and turn back to leafs when they get shaken off sometimes. Smaller enemies in Pikmin games usually get swarmed and die easier. Once one Ice Climber gets seperated he or she will most likely die.

Olimar can fight in his game, and by fight I mean just spam one simple punch. He can kill enemies just not to well.

The other pikmin do not have immunities to poison except that if the white pikmins' gas breath lingers, the pikmin obviously seem capable of walking thru it unharmed. Which would mean that this is a poison deadly to all beings except pikmin themselves. The poison they panic from is not the white pikmins'. its just another type that the white pikmin are immune to.

Also, it could be tough to shake the pikmin off without using their hands. Pikmin have a tight grip, as they can latch on to an object immediately from being thrown. And yes, Olimar could help, though it would be dangerous.

Also, Olimar's helmet may not be that weak, as he can take several hits in his games from wild creatures (much, much larger than him).




EDIT: @ Adumbrodeus - think of a creature a twenty or more times bigger than he is.

 

[bobson]

Which is why we're trying to define how potent it is. If it's potent enough, even the small amounts emited in their breath will be instantly deadly to the ICs. That's entirely realistic because there are toxins that potent.

Then we have a problem, because the toxins are only deadly when an enemy swallows a Pikmin ingame. The poison they sometimes emit from their breath does nothing to enemies.

Another point that kirbywizard pointed out would be that only whites are immune to the poison; any type of poison defense would cripple all the other Pikmin in the group.
Olimar himself is immune, though.

The other pikmin do not have immunities to poison except that if the white pikmins' gas breath lingers, the pikmin obviously seem capable of walking thru it unharmed. Which would mean that this is a poison deadly to all beings except pikmin themselves. The poison they panic from is not the white pikmins'. its just another type that the white pikmin are immune to.

If you're going by the game, enemies walk through it unharmed as well. I don't think the whites' breath is poisonous to anything in small amounts.

 

[uhmuzing]

Then we have a problem, because the toxins are only deadly when an enemy swallows a Pikmin ingame. The poison they sometimes emit from their breath does nothing to enemies.

Remember that the enemies in the game are really big and are almost never in the range of the breath toxins; they have to breathe it in or take it thru an opening. Again, the poison in their breaths is probably identical or similar to the ones that enemies succumb to when they've eaten a white pikmin.

 

[kirbywizard]

Also, Olimar's helmet may not be that weak, as he can take several hits in his games from wild creatures (much, much larger than him).

This makes me wonder what Olimar helmet is really made out of. Also I think in the game his suit is the one that is damaged and is repaired when it takes to much damage.

 

[bobson]

Remember that the enemies in the game are really big and are almost never in the range of the breath toxins; they have to breathe it in or take it thru an opening. Again, the poison in their breaths is probably identical or similar to the ones that enemies succumb to when they've eaten a white pikmin.

Bulborb babies, Grubwigs and other enemies who would be in the range of their breath (and are instantly killed if they swallow whites) aren't harmed.

If their breath is identical to the toxins inside them, it isn't deadly or harmful in small amounts.


Also your font is really annoying to read in whiteboards.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Then we have a problem, because the toxins are only deadly when an enemy swallows a Pikmin ingame. The poison they sometimes emit from their breath do nothing to enemies.

Another point that kirbywizard pointed out would be that only whites are immune to the poison; any type of poison defense would cripple all the other Pikmin in the group.
Olimar himself is immune, though.

Do they ever actually try?

Also, how quickly do enemies die after eating the pikmin?


Unless the poison is extremely impotent it's not realistic for a cloud of poison particles so concentrated that they're visable in the air to not be detrimental to your health.


As for the other pikmin, they're constantly exposed to the outbreath in small amounts, unless they had a natural immunity the poison would build up in them eventually killing them,which makes sense given their similar evolutionary path and biology, it's just something that their biology is unaffected by (and yes, they do have rather unusual biology) but most other things are.

Olimar's suit is airtight, he's probably not immune.

 

[arch knight]

I would say olimars helmet is made out of the same type of glass/plastic an astronauts helmet is made out of its very durable and ment to not shatter.

 

[JOE!]

^ you can change the look of the boards?

anywho, why arent we discussing Red/Yellow/Blues?

there are 6 of them...


Also, toward steh poison breath: In game that would be silly due to having White pikmin just stand there and kill stuff, having the enemy eat the pikmin is the pay-off for the epic damage: you lose a pikmin.

If you had no drawbacks, then whats the point of having anything else besides for the puzzles?

 

[bobson]

Do they ever actually try?

Not that I'm aware of. But if Olimar couldn't figure out how to command them to do it in the game, I don't think he'd figure it out in the course of this fight.

Also, how quickly do enemies die after eating the pikmin?

Instantly upon swallowing them.

Olimar's suit is airtight, he's probably not immune.

Right, that's what I meant by "immune." He'd be taking the reserves from his suit rather than the poison.

Incidentally, if the Climbers managed to drag the fight out for thirty days, Olimar's reserves would run out and he'd die.

 

[kirbywizard]

^ you can change the look of the boards?

anywho, why arent we discussing Red/Yellow/Blues?

there are 6 of them...

And they are almost useless here >_>. Well not useless but
Red= not effected by fire, Yellow= not effected by electric attacks, Blue: not effected by water. That is mostly what they can do, they can not shoot fire water or electricity.