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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

zeldspazz

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Good arguments Zeldaspazz

In real life I think Pit would be able to move with his mirror shield as any other warrior in history could move with their respective shields.

Technically it should end in a tie...
Fox fires his laser, Pit holds his mirror shield in front of him, laser bounces off into fox's reflector, reflects back to Pit's shield then back to Fox's reflector etc. etc...
But what I'm saying is that the mirror shield, even if being movable, takes 1 hand to shield, and a bow take 2 to fire. Therefore, at long range, pit is a big disadvantage because Fox's pistol takes 1 hand, and his reflector takes 1 (0?) hands, thus giving Fox the ability to Fire and shield at the same time, and pit the ability to Fire or shield, but not both at the same time. This is why, at a distance, Pit is at a disadvantage right off the bat. Plus, if fox shoots one of his wings, he cant fly thus depriving him the ability to fly. So, unless Pit proves to be better in hand-to-hand combat, Fox is at an advantage so far =)

Edit: Also, we should discuss their armour. I believe Pit has no armour suitable for protection, IDK about fox tho.
 

Crystanium

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But what I'm saying is that the mirror shield, even if being movable, takes 1 hand to shield, and a bow take 2 to fire. Therefore, at long range, pit is a big disadvantage because Fox's pistol takes 1 hand, and his reflector takes 1 (0?) hands, thus giving Fox the ability to Fire and shield at the same time, and pit the ability to Fire or shield, but not both at the same time. This is why, at a distance, Pit is at a disadvantage right off the bat. Plus, if fox shoots one of his wings, he cant fly thus depriving him the ability to fly. So, unless Pit proves to be better in hand-to-hand combat, Fox is at an advantage so far =)

Edit: Also, we should discuss their armour. I believe Pit has no armour suitable for protection, IDK about fox tho.
There's a problem. Can Fox fire through his Reflector while using his Blaster? I don't understand why the Reflector would be able to reflect outside projectiles, but if it's inside, it just passes through. That doesn't make sense. Otherwise, all Fox would need to do is activate his Reflector and walk up to Pit and continue firing his Blaster has he approaches. Then we could move onto the next match.

Also, Fox doesn't have any amor.
 

JOE!

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There's a problem. Can Fox fire through his Reflector while using his Blaster? I don't understand why the Reflector would be able to reflect outside projectiles, but if it's inside, it just passes through. That doesn't make sense. Otherwise, all Fox would need to do is activate his Reflector and walk up to Pit and continue firing his Blaster has he approaches. Then we could move onto the next match.

Also, Fox doesn't have any amor.
look at falco and wolf people, you cannot do anything while maintaining a reflector
 

tocador

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There's a problem. Can Fox fire through his Reflector while using his Blaster? I don't understand why the Reflector would be able to reflect outside projectiles, but if it's inside, it just passes through. That doesn't make sense. Otherwise, all Fox would need to do is activate his Reflector and walk up to Pit and continue firing his Blaster has he approaches. Then we could move onto the next match.

Also, Fox doesn't have any amor.
Every starfox games had the reflector as a really fast weapon in activation. So i can see fox shooting really fast, and when he sees a arrow, he activates the reflector, thus almost making a "fire from inside".

Arrows take long to prepare and shot. 2 Seconds minimun to reload, and to aim plus 2 seconds at least. Cause arros are influenced by gravity/wind wereas lasers not :D!

Fox has a armor, hes a trained marine that has a armor. Not a big and sexy one, but he has the minimum, while pit has some fugly dress to protect himself.

I give the edge for fox in this fight. While in the groudn pit will be obliterated, from range(lasers + reflector > arro + 2hand shield), it can be kinda even in melee combat, with a slight edge to fox, because he has kinda "animal" instincts, while pit besides being a good fighter as seens in kid icarus, cant win from a marine like fox ^^.

In the air, i really cant see pit doing much besides trying to glinde into fox, and shooting arrows while moving will be besides hard, useless cause of reflector. And lasers will get pit otherwise.

700/300 FOX imo.
 

Crystanium

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Every starfox games had the reflector as a really fast weapon in activation. So i can see fox shooting really fast, and when he sees a arrow, he activates the reflector, thus almost making a "fire from inside".
Name the games, please. I'm only aware of one StarFox game where Fox is on foot, rather than in space, and that's StarFox Adventures.

Arrows take long to prepare and shot. 2 Seconds minimun to reload, and to aim plus 2 seconds at least. Cause arros are influenced by gravity/wind wereas lasers not :D!
Let's get an idea of Pit from Kid Icarus.

Fox has a armor, hes a trained marine that has a armor. Not a big and sexy one, but he has the minimum, while pit has some fugly dress to protect himself.
Show me this alleged armor and how it will protect Fox McCloud.







From what I see, both do not have armor, or at least not enough to protect them. Fox isn't wearing anything like Samus Aran. The Light Arrows that Pit possesses would fire straight through, just like it would against his enemies at the last level.

I give the edge for fox in this fight. While in the groudn pit will be obliterated, from range(lasers + reflector > arro + 2hand shield),
Arrows plus Mirror Shield. And a two-handed shield? What nonsense is that?

it can be kinda even in melee combat, with a slight edge to fox, because he has kinda "animal" instincts, while pit besides being a good fighter as seens in kid icarus, cant win from a marine like fox ^^.
Fox is a marine? I didn't know that. Source? What I did know was that Pit is the captain of Palutena's army.

In the air, i really cant see pit doing much besides trying to glinde into fox, and shooting arrows while moving will be besides hard, useless cause of reflector. And lasers will get pit otherwise.
That Mirror Shield sure helped against Medusa when she fired her beams, and Pit was in the air.

Are we allowing Pit to fly, or just jump really high?

I do think Fox McCloud would win this one, but only because of the future technology. I'd really like to see which Fox we are using, however. I mean, if this was Fox McCloud versus Pit, and we were using Fox from StarFox Adventures, Pit would have this.
 

smashbot226

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Essentially, it's a decision between Future technology and Heaven technology. Pit has wings, a shield, and a bow and "arrow." Fox has a blaster, reflector, and speed.

Excellent matchup in my opinion!
 

adumbrodeus

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Show me this alleged armor and how it will protect Fox McCloud.







From what I see, both do not have armor, or at least not enough to protect them. Fox isn't wearing anything like Samus Aran. The Light Arrows that Pit possesses would fire straight through, just like it would against his enemies at the last level.
3 is pretty obviously armor of some kind, it's far to rigid to not be.

2 looks it.

1 looks too much like cloth, but it's possible, silk for example, can block bullets, just like Kevlar vests.


Anyway, here's the aesthetic we're looking at with armor for fox:



So, yea, fox would have armor.
 

Crazy_mofo213

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Name the games, please. I'm only aware of one StarFox game where Fox is on foot, rather than in space, and that's StarFox Adventures.
I believe he's referring to Star Fox Assualt, in which Fox had the ability to use a shield to deflect and protect him from enemy fire. Fox also could shoot from inside the shield, but after taking a certain amount of damage his shield would dissappear.
 

adumbrodeus

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adumbrodeus said:
Name the games, please. I'm only aware of one StarFox game where Fox is on foot, rather than in space, and that's StarFox Adventures.

I believe he's referring to Star Fox Assualt, in which Fox had the ability to use a shield to deflect and protect him from enemy fire. Fox also could shoot from inside the shield, but after taking a certain amount of damage his shield would dissappear.
Ummmm, I never said that.

And tt links to my post which the section is clearly not part of.
 

Darkshadow7827

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So far, I'd give range advantage to fox, but just by a hair. A one handed rapid fire gun and an one handed reflector that comes out quickly. Pit has a reflecting shield, but cannot continue to fire as quickly as fox. A regular arrow, since we are ruling OUT light arrows, isn't as deadly as lasers.

I would, however, give the CQC advantage to pit... wait, scratch that. I forgot his possession of dual swords was not confirmed. I don't know how pit fairs in close quarter combat. I don't think pit can logically have a bow that can form into two swords. Realistically, swords need to be firm and stable to make a cut. Bows, on the other hand, need to bend in order to allow tension in the string to build, which then launches the arrow. These two factors contradict each other, so I think it's logical to say that pit's bow doesn't split into dual swords.

Each has a reflector and a long range weapon. To determine CQC, it can either be pure hands or perhaps each could have a weapon. Again, I haven't played either the Kid Icarus game or the star fox games, so. Right now, I'm leaning towards fox by a hair due to his rapid pistol and pits slower bow and arrow.
 

zeldspazz

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Oh so fox cant use his blaster and reflector at the same time? I was thinking like have the reflector cover his chest area and such and then like "fire around" his blaster. How big is his reflector exactly?
 

Moozle

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The OP already says that Pit has his blades. He also has a high jump and a glide(basically flying?). I'm still undecided on who will win this, but I do think that Fox would definitely have better armor than Pit.
 

Crystanium

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So, yea, fox would have armor.
Even if Fox does have armor, it isn't much, and I don't find it benefiting him in this battle. Both can try to get a clear headshot. The arms and legs are also exposed, as a Kevlar vest would only be protecting the torso area.

A regular arrow, since we are ruling OUT light arrows, isn't as deadly as lasers.
If we're going to rule out light arrows for Pit, which would just work like a laser anyway, give Pit fire arrows. That's the other kind of arrow upgrade he had in Kid Icarus.

Also, people, please don't say, "Oh, well Pit just wields a bow and arrow." Archers are quite amazing at what they can do.
 

zeldspazz

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Any armour is benefitial IMO, comsidering Pit has no armour. thats just gives fox that much more potential to win. Still waiting to hear how wide his reflector will be.
 

Crystanium

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Any armour is benefitial IMO, comsidering Pit has no armour. thats just gives fox that much more potential to win. Still waiting to hear how wide his reflector will be.
Well, in Kid Icarus, Pit's Mirror Shield is longer than what you'd see in Brawl, so it covers his entire body, all the way up to his chin. He doesn't have to kneel down. Also, he has a helmet for head protection.
 

Smooth Criminal

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Also, people, please don't say, "Oh, well Pit just wields a bow and arrow." Archers are quite amazing at what they can do.
Not as amazing as someone who wields the equivalent of a semi-automatic handgun (Fox's laser), bro. I dare you to say that an archer would have enough time to notch an arrow as they are being shot up by somebody who has (again with the following word) the equivalent of a full clip of rounds.

To put it simply: I fire shots at you as fast as I pull the trigger and only reload (i.e. notch an arrow) when I run out of bullets in my clip. Time it takes for you to reload after each shot with a bow/arrow? Seconds. Time it takes for me to pull the trigger, while my ammo is already in place? Half a second, if that.

Smooth Criminal
 

JOE!

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Any armour is benefitial IMO, comsidering Pit has no armour. thats just gives fox that much more potential to win. Still waiting to hear how wide his reflector will be.
the reflector covers the whole body, but the user cannot do anything while in it

did you look up Wolf or Falco in the thread dude? :p
 

D3w3y

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I think everyone forgets to realize that fox can not reflect Pit's arrows in real life as he does in brawl making his reflector useless to everything but the laser he has reflected back at him. Plus the armor that Fox has is just a speculation looking at pictures there is no proof that his vest has any protective properties.

Does anyone know/have proof if Pit has swords in the new Kid Icarus game for Wii or not?
 

D3w3y

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Darkshadow7827

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Very interesting. I didn't know there was a kid icarus game coming out for the wii. The sword-bow design it pretty cool looking.

Well, if the OP said pit can wield a blade, then I think that gives pit the short range advantage. Looking at the fox pictures, it appears that he has regular hands and no claws. Although he may fast and a skilled fighter (even though skill factor is limited), pit's swords would give him that much more range. If we count pit's dual blades, then it's even more ferocious, since it'd be easier to maneuver both short blades. And okay Dryn, the fire arrows make pit's projectile more dealier too.

This is a good matchup. I'm still kind of undecided. I believe Fox has a slight range advantage and Pit with a clear short range advantage. Of course I haven't even taken into account air and ground mobility, so... Hmmm... I'm leaning a bit towards Pit.
 

zeldspazz

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Ok will Pit be able to move with his Mirror shield while protecting himseld, because if it covers his whole body, I'm guessing it would be pretty heavy.
 

Mota

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In this battle, I believe Pit would win.

Both characters have reflectors, so projectiles are useless.

Close range Pit has a weapon while Fox has only his feet and clwas, which are shorter in range + Pit can glide to attack and evade.
 

D3w3y

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I don't know the specs on the mirror shield but most people can move with a shield unless it really is THAT large.

Plus Fox and Pit both have fighting experience (their games revolve around them fighting) so I don't think Fox will have as big as an advantage as everyone is saying in terms of fighting skill.
 

zeldspazz

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Ok this is what I'm guessing so far:

Pit

Advantages
-Great aerial mobility, with the ability to jump very high and glide.
-A bow being able to weild and shoot normal (fire too?) arrows at high speeds.
-A mirror shield being able to reflect Fox's lazers and covers him from his chin to feet while standing up.
-His bow will be able to change into dual blades, for quick, slashing attacks in close-hand combat, giving Pit a range advantage.
-Pit's ability to fight effectively in the air and on the ground make his combat skills well-rounded

Disadvantages
-Practically no worn armour
-May take a bit too long to shoot an arrow, losing him precious time in a projectile vs. projectile fight
-Being shot in the wing may make him lose the ability to fly, just my opinion though I'm not sure how strong him wings are.
-Mediocre ground speed if compared to Fox, so Pit would want to stay airborn perhaps if approaching

Fox

Advantages
-His lazer pistol gives him a rapid fire and speedy shot. One shot could be very fatal to Pit, as he has no armour without his mirror shield.
-He has a reflector although the ability for it to reflect Pit's arrows is unknown for now. It covers his whole body.
-He has outstanding ground mobility
-Very agile and a skilled fighter (but Pit is also a skilled fighter, just a different style.)

Disadvantages
-He is unable to perform any attack options while using his reflector
-Though he has some thin armour around his torso area, it is still probably ineffective and irrelevant to this matchup
-He yields no close-combat weapon unlike pit, so he has to rely on his agility to get passed Pit's dual blades.
-His inability to fly gives Pit the advantage overhead.

About their projectiles:
Pit: His arrows can move at a fast speed, and Fox's reflector may not provide protection against it, but no matter how skilled Pit is his arrows are slightly affected by gravity and other natural elements and the time it takes to reload another arrows and take aim can hinder him with a storm of lazers coming his way.

Fox: His lazer can shoot rapid fire lazers that are uneffected by natural elements and since it is as small as a handgun and as easy to shoot as pressing a trigger, I think his projectile is better overall. However, Pit's mirror shield WILL easily reflect these shots, so getting a shot to actually hit pit may be a probelm for Fox

About their close-combat:

Pit: He just might have the advantage here. His bow converts into dual blades (two small swords), and since he is a skilled fighter his skills with them should be incredible. They give him more range than fox, are easily maneuverable do to their size/design, and I'm going to assume are going to be stronger and more lethal than Fox's paws when a hit connects.

Fox: Fox has no weapon for close-combat other than his two fists (paws ^^). I'm not sure if he has claws (verify someone?) but if he does I'm pretty sure they aren't longer range than pit's dual blades. The only way I can see for Fox to win close-combat is to use his immense ground agility to bait Pit to slash one way, and then follow up with a hit to the part of his body that is open.

Where they are even

-Both have an effective projectile
-Both have a reflector (but I'm not sure if Fox's can be used against Pit's arrows)
-Both have agility in their elements, but less in their opponents.
-Both are skilled and experienced fighters/leaders
-Both have very limited, if no, worn armour.

OUTCOME

600:400 in Pit's favor.

Both have an effective projectile and reflector, and their projectile and reflector have their disadvantages that balance them out. However, Pit has the option of shooting from the air giving him different shooting angles/more flexibility, so this may hamper Fox in projectile fighting. In close combat, I'm pretty sure pit has the advantage. His blades are longer ranged and more fatal than Fox's fists, even with claws, and I'm sure Pit has to be pretty agile and quick with his blades since they are his main weapon up close. All in all, Pit has slight advantages everywhere, the way Fox can win is by getting a shot at Pit's wings, giving him the inability to fly, or find a way to find an open shot around Pit's mirror shield for a fatal lazer to the face/chest. In close-combat, Fox needs to bait swings of the blade and and then use his agility to get a shot at where Pit is open, but most of the time I think Pit will be skillful enough with his blades to avoid these kinds of situations


Whew that was a lot of work tell how it looks so far =)

EDIT: haha this was my 200th post w00t ^_^
 

Crystanium

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Not as amazing as someone who wields the equivalent of a semi-automatic handgun (Fox's laser), bro. I dare you to say that an archer would have enough time to notch an arrow as they are being shot up by somebody who has (again with the following word) the equivalent of a full clip of rounds.

To put it simply: I fire shots at you as fast as I pull the trigger and only reload (i.e. notch an arrow) when I run out of bullets in my clip. Time it takes for you to reload after each shot with a bow/arrow? Seconds. Time it takes for me to pull the trigger, while my ammo is already in place? Half a second, if that.

Smooth Criminal
Bro, I think you ignore the appreciation of an archer. Not that Pit is going to be a contortionist in this match, but check this out. Frankly, this is how I see it. Pit can be hiding behind his Mirror Shield as he gets the next arrow in. There is nothing amazing about wielding a Blaster. Sorry. There just isn't.

zeldspazz, wasn't it you yesterday who said that Fox would win?
 

zeldspazz

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Yes Dryn but after reviewing everything that has been said and thinking about it some more I think Pit should win this. I was thinking Fox at first though.
 

JOE!

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You guys take into account that Fox can use his blaster in Melee range, unlike Pit's bow?

all he has to do is point and shoot...


Also, like in falco/wolf comments, if it is metal tipped or energy based, the reflector reflects it
 

zeldspazz

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Um I'm not honestly buying that Pit is going to let Fox get a shot in with those dual blodes honestly but I guess u could be right.
 

droughboi

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lmao at week7. idk... pit got dual blades... arrows... big shield... spinny sheild... and can fly.

Fox has... a gun... a reflector.... and big feet.... thats bout it....
 

tocador

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Bro, I think you ignore the appreciation of an archer. Not that Pit is going to be a contortionist in this match, but check this out. Frankly, this is how I see it. Pit can be hiding behind his Mirror Shield as he gets the next arrow in. There is nothing amazing about wielding a Blaster. Sorry. There just isn't.

zeldspazz, wasn't it you yesterday who said that Fox would win?
If Pit just stayed with his shield STILL and started reloading the bow, fox could just run ARROUND the shield. If you may, there is no possible way you can hold a shield AND reload a Bow at the same time. You would need at least 3 hands. So PIT HAS TO CHOOSE between:

1.Chargin with the shield in hands

2.Let the shield STILL in one place and set his bow.

For n1, fox can out-run and shoot him, as a shield that is AS big as your body isnt light, this would make his easy target btw.

For n2, fox can run to the sides of pit and shoot him from there, cause as long as i know, you cant follow someone with a GIANT shield and reload a bow while avoiding lasers.

Fox has the edge in the RANGE combat. As long as he stays there, he wins.

600/400 FOX.
 

tocador

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Bro, I think you ignore the appreciation of an archer. Not that Pit is going to be a contortionist in this match, but check this out. Frankly, this is how I see it. Pit can be hiding behind his Mirror Shield as he gets the next arrow in. There is nothing amazing about wielding a Blaster. Sorry. There just isn't.

zeldspazz, wasn't it you yesterday who said that Fox would win?
Sorry for double :B.


Quite amazing your vid Dryn. But lets say that the range was kinda short, and that she wasnt being shot with a volley of arrows while doing it. And she took at least 1 second to aim, so yeah, laser guns still out-do bows ^^.
 

zeldspazz

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Theres something called hold a shield? Fox can't just "run around Pit". You think he's just gonna stand and watch fox run circles around him? There were many successful armies that used full body shields and still had decent mobility. Also, Pit can just put his reflector in front of the fire (as stated above). Eventually, fox is gonna get tired of shooting the lazers at a reflector, so he'll have to go for a change of plans. Also, I might add, if you look at the original Kid Icarus game, while Pit is flying, he his shield weilded around his torso, and he is able to shoot at the same time. Therefore, he is able to shield and shoot, be in th air which is the element fox has no control over, and I'm sure since Pit is an expert bowman, he's going to be loading faster than you give him credit for (obviously longer reload than Fox though, just not exactly "slow"). Also, I think someone mentioned he had a helmet, but I'm not sure...
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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Pit's shield isn't whole body, he has to duck behind it, and I don't see how he'll see Fox, unless he wants to be shot in the face.

Flying serves no purpose, Fox will just shoot him out of the sky.

A helmet has openings, doesn't really serve a purpose if he plans on looking at Fox.

Also, how is Pit going to be able to take his shield out without betting shot? He has to take it out and then buckle it on, which will take a few seconds. I really don't see how the hell he's just going to whip it out to deflect Fox's lasers.

Fox has (essentially) infinite ammo, so he can just hope for a lucky shot.

I say Fox, but it's pretty close. Newer technology wins the battle.
 

JOE!

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The max you can load a bow is like 2 seconds...then he has to aim and fire

Fox has to point and shoot

also, if the mirror shield covers his whole body while reloading the bow, how would he see fox sneaking around the side without exposing his head to the laser volley?
 

tocador

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Theres something called hold a shield? Fox can't just "run around Pit". You think he's just gonna stand and watch fox run circles around him? There were many successful armies that used full body shields and still had decent mobility. Also, Pit can just put his reflector in front of the fire (as stated above). Eventually, fox is gonna get tired of shooting the lazers at a reflector, so he'll have to go for a change of plans. Also, I might add, if you look at the original Kid Icarus game, while Pit is flying, he his shield weilded around his torso, and he is able to shoot at the same time. Therefore, he is able to shield and shoot, be in th air which is the element fox has no control over, and I'm sure since Pit is an expert bowman, he's going to be loading faster than you give him credit for (obviously longer reload than Fox though, just not exactly "slow"). Also, I think someone mentioned he had a helmet, but I'm not sure...
You cant quite read, sir.

How can you manage to hold a shield(1 hand or 2 like some people say) and reload a bow(2 hand MINIMUM) at the same time? For PIT to reflect and shoot, it WOULDNT be possible. He would need at least 3 hands, so he MUST choose between hiding, or shooting.

Im not talking that pit is going to stay immobile, but with a full body shield, he cant match with fox's ground speed. And therefore if he chooses to walk with the shield, he cant shot with the Bow,

And he cant just put the shield there as he wants and hope fox will shoot straight forward. Fox can run in circles arround him and shot. Doing this he wont be damaged from reflection, and moving a GIANT shield arround yourself cant be as fast as someones running and shooting at you.

Just l2read next time =/.
 

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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@JOE!: Last sentence was essentially what I said above, and adding to it, the only way Pit can see Fox is if Fox is on the side of Pit and Pit happened to be looking that way, and even then all Pit can do is turn his shield, and then Fox just has to get lucky and be on the side Pit isn't looking on and shoot him.
 
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