I'm going to ingore you leffen from now on since you don't respond to my posts, it's futile on my part.
Also, I sadly have to agree with bËst of our fellow finnish players.
Draver, you have no idea what depth / full potential really is, or how it is relevant to this matter.
You are basically trying to argue that Texas hold em should have 5 decks and that you should get 20 cards at the start because there are more variables, and because of that it must increase the "depth".
Less is more, ******
Really? How about you stop making terrible comparisons since I can also make ones easily as bad as you did and call it a day? "There should be only one player instead of eleven in football because ledd is more lololo". See? Equally as bad. Come back after you have passed kindergarten.
Yeah, Idd finland has already embarrassed themselves with this tourney.
Lol, "bias has no place in rulesets". You couldnt be more wrong.
This has nothing to do with any character bias, its simply a bias for having fun. Please give me an example of a game with rules that arent made specifically because the majority of the people playing it enjoy it that way. Please.
So the entire community has banned stages such as Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar because of them not being fun according to you and ingoring all the competitive depth they bring in? I have already given up on the Melee community but this is just quite something else. In any existing world, no one asks if players like the rules when creating them, that should be basics. They are essentially made functional, fair and using all the depth available to everyone not including any personal fun factors or anything alike.
Uh, nice example...
Sports also implement changes on the ruleset if they feel as the "metagame" is becoming to gay etc
Let me just say here that camping and counterpick stages aren't "gay", they are a fundamental part of the game. You can't take those away just because "deyre gay q_q". Stop living in a dream world, you are playing Smash Brothers.
Here's what I think of Draver's stages:
In general, moving stages add random factors to the game. You may be able to predict something that is not technically "random", but for humans playing this game, everything outside of how far ahead you can plan your combos is random.
The cloud on YS is random until you're outside the stage and happen to notice "hey, if I shine-stall a little, I can make it".
That is not an excuse to not to use counterpicks that are, in reality, even less random than Yoshi's Story (Shy Guys) and Fountain of Dreams (moving platforms). Everything in Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise and Poké Floats is following clear patterns that are easy to remember. Even the cloud in Yoshi's Story can be followed since it moves the same speed all the time and there is the timer to look from where the cloud next appears or is going. All it requires is a little knowledge of the stages, I don't know why leave them out because of this, we don't want to cut off the importance of stage knowledge from a platform fighter. You have to keep an eye on the stage when you combo and such, you can't just mindlessly start doing tricks and be then accuse the stage of being hit or something. You should aknowledge the risks that await when you're doing something.
You should be fighting your opponent(s), not the stage.
Why do people think Melee is or should be like street fighter practically ingoring the effect of the stages? You even won't be doing any "battle vs. the stage" if you know what you're doing. Using the stage to your advantage is the key point in every single stage in the game, for example, FD being platformless is one kind of an hazard (a major one you know) and you "have to fight against it" just like you do with the lava of Brinstar. The better player uses his or her knowledge of the stage against you in every single stage. And to even give you more options on it, you can counterpick any character you like there.
Also, some stages help camping. Like, really help it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K80TYnAjqaw
What do you except from Peach vs. Fox on Poké Floats? Armada was given all the chances in the world to pick a better character there since Peach is easy to outcamp on that stage. It was stupid not to and it shows although he managed to pull out the win in the end. This is a game of counterpicking and not knowing how to do it, is a sign of being a somewhat bad player. I'm not saying Armada is bad (duh) but there he didn't show his ability to counterpick right leading to stuff like that.
The game is really what we want it to be, not necessarily what it was designed to be. It was designed to be a party game.
The majority apparently don't want those stages in a tournament. You're free to do whatever you want in friendlies, but when you enter a tournament, it's not a competition of "who is best at partying with this game". Sure the stagelist can seem a little artificial, but without boundaries, we might as well play HRC instead.
You're assuming that Brinstar, Rainbow Cruise, Kongo Jungle N64 and Poké Floats aren't competitive by default. Wrong.
You're assuming that it would be the same thing to play in those stages and playing HRC. Wrong again.
The game was't indeed desingned to be fully competitive form of a fighter but that is not a reason to leave those stages out because of articicial and subjective reasons. The absolute goal isn't to make a stagelist that would please everyone but...
...to do an objective and fair competitive ruleset where the goal is to make as versatile and deep metagame with all the elements the game has to offer which doesn't take personal preferences into account, that is common knowledge.
We can't leave competitively fine elements out just because we can or are delusional and think Smash should be a player vs. player without a need of any stage knowledge and adaptation. I don't know how many times I have said that but so far no one has probably even bothered reading it.
Also Schwa, don't be sorry for ccst since he doesn't understand how brackets work with four pools although it has been explained already many times in this thread.
EDIT: So many typos in my post, dem be now fixed.
xD.
