Moving back to your suggestion for the frames, make the duration shorter. I recommend spacing the hits less. It shouldn't last very long. Also, the endlag needs to be cut down to more like 15 frames. Unless I'm imagining frame speed wrong (I probably am)
For perspective, it's time before the last active hitbox is shorter than Pit's nair (by 7 frames even). It's total duration of active hitboxes is 12 frames, compared to Pit's massive 21 frames.
It's endlag is also 5 frames FASTER than Pit's nair. Frame data is hard to interpret into raw speed (it's hard to figure out just what 1/4th of a second feels like), so we can experiment with lag times down the road. I'd rather just start on the side of possibly being a little too slow, rather than starting from too fast (moves end up less broken that way).
there won't really be any sideways hit on his way down... Someone who shielded the first bit would certainly have time to do something as Lloyd's up there spinning. My last suggestion is that the damage be reduced to 8%.
0_o. I feel like you've lost me here. My impression was that you wanted tempest to only do a small hop above the ground. With that in mind, a circular hitbox that hits a reasonable amount above him would undoubtedly be able to hit an opponent next to him (unless we want swords going through them visual with no hitbox to match). A shielding opponent would be forced to shield the whole thing (not that that's a bad thing).
Also, Lloyd's not really a weak hitter... Beast and Sonic Thrust, for example, are pretty strong. I'm going to point out, though, that characters who do not kill upwards well usually can kill sideways well and can spike and/or gimp. Lloyd can't do these last things, and I think we should make his usmash have kill capacity. I mean, it doesn't have to be crazy good, but it should be able kill once, say, Mario is at 110ish%. Gotta go now, I'm sure I'll have more to say later.[/color]
Killing Mario at 110 is actually fairly impressive. Heck,
Mario can't kill Mario at 110%.
Normally combo oriented characters have fairly weak kill moves (with exceptions for moves that have A LOT of end lag)
I'd brawl you just to prove that wrong, bub. His upsmash is fantastic.
Non-competitive people like you just see others spam it all the time.
(I'm assuming you're non-competitive. If you are tell me so and don't be offended.)
And MK's upsmash can slide really far without DACUS and like the rest of his moves, poke great and are multi-hit and do a decent amount of damage.
I'm serious about the whole brawl thing btw. I got new internetz and I am a ton better than I think you think I am.
Lol.
First, nothing should ever be based off wifi.
Second, I am a competitive melee player (have been since 06), and a pretty good brawl+ player (just ask Cape <_<). And it doesn't take much to see that the startup of Lucas's upsmash, coupled with it's massive endlag, it really is not a good move used offline. It is rare that an opponent is ever in a situation where they cannot simply avoid it on reaction (wifi hinders reaction based gameplay greatly, making some moves seem better than they're supposed to be). Power means nothing if the move doesn't land, and Lucas has absolutely no setups to land this move.
Lastly, MK's upsmash is bad simply because the risk does not justify the gain. Upsmash has fairly quick startup, but has almost non existent shield stun, long duration (with few active hitboxes), and litterally half a second of cooldown (much longer than you'd think), meaning it is very very easy for an opponent to punish it with something far more damaging than the upsmash itself. Many characters can smash MK after shielding his upsmash, or sometimes worse (grab release shenanigans
)
