Beren_Zaiga, in case you didn't notice, this thread is for the making of Lloyd playable in Brawl. If you make comments about something related to Lloyd and don't specifically say otherwise, it'll probably be assumed that you're talking about it in relation to the project, since, you know, that would be on topic. That said, please don't use such huge text. It's unnecessary and very annoying. Post about the project, or don't post. This isn't a ToS general discussion.
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Tales of Brawl - Innerscope has released Lloyd 2.0!
- Thread starter GP&B
- Start date
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
Don't come here to be rude. Fen already stated what I was going to say; I was assuming that you had interest in using the ToS2 voices. Otherwise, I have no idea why you would want to discuss it anyways.
And no, Rising Falcon and Sword Rain both sound terrible. His ToS2 voice is not a primary concern. If someone really wants it, they can figure out the sound effects replacement process. Most Lloyd fans (or general Tales of fans) are going to be far more familiar with his ToS1 voice (especially because it's a superior game over the sequel and one of the very few RPGs on the Gamecube).
With that in mind, don't bother discussing it anymore.
Beren Zaiga
Smash Ace
Very well then.
*Honestly couldn't think of anything else to say.*
*Honestly couldn't think of anything else to say.*
manman1235
Smash Cadet
Very good! Since I've stopped working on my project (temporarily *wink*) I'm willing to animate since you need animators. However, I've never played a Tales game and don't plan to, so just tell me what you want Lloyd to do and I'll make him do it.
Zephron
Smash Ace
Stick is adding a whopping 12 extra sounds with me today, and I'll have an updated download on here. I'll need SqLeon's help though because I used some different sounds for them and I need them rearranged.
I also made another progress video in case you haven't already seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Asm9ga5N5g
I'll probably make another video in a week or so.
I also made another progress video in case you haven't already seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Asm9ga5N5g
I'll probably make another video in a week or so.
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
Commented on it.
It's all looking quite nice and the stage is certainly better in action.
It's all looking quite nice and the stage is certainly better in action.
Zephron
Smash Ace
I'll organize it and hopefully let this post be a point of reference.
I can edit it later and update it if need be.
Also, please dont argue about placement anymore. We've done it for 15 pages.
Feel free to argue about the ones in green, but make sure you read the description first.
With all the work we have I was wondering if we could have 2 PSA guys.
Green: Done / nearly done
Yellow: Needs work + being worked on
Red: Far from done / not started yet
Specials
Neutral B: (Demon Fang) Needs to go diagonally in air, then finished.
Side B: (Rising Falcon) Not Started Yet
Up B: (Psi Tempest) Sq is working on allowing you to control Tempest during the move.
Down B: (Beast) Hitboxes are little strange, and we need them to end quicker, but overall finished. (The graphic should be tweaked a little too.)
Tilts
Jab: Need to work on endlag and knockback a little, but mostly finished.
Dash: Not Started Yet.
Side Tilt: (Tiger Blade) Not Started Yet, but has starter hitboxes.
Up Tilt: (Tempest) Not started, but very fun to use anyway.
Down tilt: (Sword Rain) Hitboxes are little strange, and we need to include Alpha, and beta end hits.
Aerials
Neutral Air Hitboxes and hitstun good, but it doesn't increase in knockback and it is extremely fast.
Forward Air : Finished.
Back Air : Not Yet Started.
Up Air : Hitboxes finished as well as %, but is extremely fast and has almost no endlag.
Down Air : Is a strong spike, needs to be made considerably weaker, and needs more endlag.
Smashes
Forward Smash : (Sonic Thrust) Endlag and hitboxes need to be tweaked a little, and it needs to be able to be charged correctly.
Up Smash : Not Started Yet.
Down Smash : (Demonic Circle) Not Started Yet.
Throws
Pummel: Not Started Yet.
Forward Throw : Not Started Yet.
Back Throw : Not Started Yet.
Up Throw : Not Started Yet.
Down Throw : (Fierce Demon Fang) Not Started Yet.
Other
Ledge Attack: Not Started Yet.
Guardian: We got the sound and the graphic ready.
Get-up Attack: Not Started Yet.
Weight : Not Started Yet.
Sword Trails : We're trying to get it to work, minor successes but no final solution yet.
I can edit it later and update it if need be.
Also, please dont argue about placement anymore. We've done it for 15 pages.
Feel free to argue about the ones in green, but make sure you read the description first.
With all the work we have I was wondering if we could have 2 PSA guys.
Green: Done / nearly done
Yellow: Needs work + being worked on
Red: Far from done / not started yet
Specials
Neutral B: (Demon Fang) Needs to go diagonally in air, then finished.
Side B: (Rising Falcon) Not Started Yet
Up B: (Psi Tempest) Sq is working on allowing you to control Tempest during the move.
Down B: (Beast) Hitboxes are little strange, and we need them to end quicker, but overall finished. (The graphic should be tweaked a little too.)
Tilts
Jab: Need to work on endlag and knockback a little, but mostly finished.
Dash: Not Started Yet.
Side Tilt: (Tiger Blade) Not Started Yet, but has starter hitboxes.
Up Tilt: (Tempest) Not started, but very fun to use anyway.
Down tilt: (Sword Rain) Hitboxes are little strange, and we need to include Alpha, and beta end hits.
Aerials
Neutral Air Hitboxes and hitstun good, but it doesn't increase in knockback and it is extremely fast.
Forward Air : Finished.
Back Air : Not Yet Started.
Up Air : Hitboxes finished as well as %, but is extremely fast and has almost no endlag.
Down Air : Is a strong spike, needs to be made considerably weaker, and needs more endlag.
Smashes
Forward Smash : (Sonic Thrust) Endlag and hitboxes need to be tweaked a little, and it needs to be able to be charged correctly.
Up Smash : Not Started Yet.
Down Smash : (Demonic Circle) Not Started Yet.
Throws
Pummel: Not Started Yet.
Forward Throw : Not Started Yet.
Back Throw : Not Started Yet.
Up Throw : Not Started Yet.
Down Throw : (Fierce Demon Fang) Not Started Yet.
Other
Ledge Attack: Not Started Yet.
Guardian: We got the sound and the graphic ready.
Get-up Attack: Not Started Yet.
Weight : Not Started Yet.
Sword Trails : We're trying to get it to work, minor successes but no final solution yet.
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
It's probably a safe bet that the completion of these moves are currently not accounting effects, right? It doesn't bother me at the moment as move fluency is much more important.
Zephron
Smash Ace
Yeah, we haven't done many effects.
Most of the effects though would look great with just the sword trails, like Tempest.
We gave Sonic Thrust it's effect though.
SqLeon isn't going to be able to finish all of the PSA at this rate...
Most of the effects though would look great with just the sword trails, like Tempest.
We gave Sonic Thrust it's effect though.
SqLeon isn't going to be able to finish all of the PSA at this rate...
JamietheAuraUser
Smash Lord
He says "Psi Tempest". While that's technically the move being used, I gotta say, it would make more sense for him to just say "Tempest".
Also, having watched some vids of ToS1 Lloyd in action, I gotta say I really don't like how you worked Beast. The Beast symbol needs to be larger and appear lower (and closer to Lloyd), for one thing, but it also just doesn't feel right for some reason. There probably needs to be a bit of hitlag when the first hit impacts (not on the second one the way you've done it, it just doesn't feel right), and the second hit needs to come out fairly quickly after that. Also, the launch angle is way too low (it knocks them downwards and sideways, when it should really knock them sideways and slightly upwards. That, and it can knock them backwards. The first hit should be entirely in front of Lloyd, so if the first hit connects (which is supposed to be required for the second hit to come out) the second hit should only be able to hit the enemy forwards). I understand that it's still not done, so don't take offence or anything. (And while we're at it, why does the second hit still come out when the first misses? If the first misses, instead of getting the second hit and Beast symbol, you should get massive endlag.)
Also, I suggest that for the backwards rolling dodge, we should use Lloyd's Backstep animation, or some slight variation of it. His neutral floor tech should use his Recover animation, but probably sped up, knowing how slow the Recover skill is in ToS2.
And Sonic Thrust needs a more visible special effect (the green laser thingy), and it has a seriously weird amount of knockback. I understand it having good damage, given the 1.4x damage multiplier it has in-game, but I gotta say, that knockback just looks messed up, after having seen the move in action in ToS1.
Also, having watched some vids of ToS1 Lloyd in action, I gotta say I really don't like how you worked Beast. The Beast symbol needs to be larger and appear lower (and closer to Lloyd), for one thing, but it also just doesn't feel right for some reason. There probably needs to be a bit of hitlag when the first hit impacts (not on the second one the way you've done it, it just doesn't feel right), and the second hit needs to come out fairly quickly after that. Also, the launch angle is way too low (it knocks them downwards and sideways, when it should really knock them sideways and slightly upwards. That, and it can knock them backwards. The first hit should be entirely in front of Lloyd, so if the first hit connects (which is supposed to be required for the second hit to come out) the second hit should only be able to hit the enemy forwards). I understand that it's still not done, so don't take offence or anything. (And while we're at it, why does the second hit still come out when the first misses? If the first misses, instead of getting the second hit and Beast symbol, you should get massive endlag.)
Also, I suggest that for the backwards rolling dodge, we should use Lloyd's Backstep animation, or some slight variation of it. His neutral floor tech should use his Recover animation, but probably sped up, knowing how slow the Recover skill is in ToS2.
And Sonic Thrust needs a more visible special effect (the green laser thingy), and it has a seriously weird amount of knockback. I understand it having good damage, given the 1.4x damage multiplier it has in-game, but I gotta say, that knockback just looks messed up, after having seen the move in action in ToS1.
Zephron
Smash Ace
Did you read my post? You told me not to take offense but you still ignored all my details.
As for the knockback angle, we'll discuss it with SqLeon. Keep in mind that we can't always make moves "feel right" for every single person.
The move is yellow and also totally isn't anywhere near done. It's super powerful because it acts fully charged regardless of if it is or not.
Since we're using Tempest already in the moveset we decided for Psi Tempest and because the move is more controllable than normal tempest.
I told you to read the move's description before you commented. I already said the graphic is wrong and we'll fix it. I agree on the whole larger and lower thing.
We already fixed the whole "hits behind him" problem. Sq hasn't gotten to the "first hit must connect" part. It needs to be the second hit for the strong one because Beast hasn't even come out yet, and the first hit must connect is the whole way we're balancing it.
As for the knockback angle, we'll discuss it with SqLeon. Keep in mind that we can't always make moves "feel right" for every single person.
Kind of unnecessary, but idk if we have that animation on hand I'll run it by the animators.
We've also already done that if you read my posts.
The move is yellow and also totally isn't anywhere near done. It's super powerful because it acts fully charged regardless of if it is or not.
JamietheAuraUser
Smash Lord
Sorry, I must have missed some of that. I was basing my comments almost entirely off of what I saw in the vid, because I wasn't aware that it wasn't showing the newest version. Sorry about that! Also, it said Beast was near completion, which I assumed meant that it was, well near completion, because I figured that having the first hit connecting as a requirement for the second hit would be a major coding project that would push the move into the "yellow" zone if you were going to do it.
The reason I suggest the Backstep and Recover animations is because it will probably be easier overall and look more polished than using fully custom animations.
Anyway, enough of that.
The reason I suggest the Backstep and Recover animations is because it will probably be easier overall and look more polished than using fully custom animations.
Anyway, enough of that.
Holy Lance
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 10, 2010
- Messages
- 85
on demon fang there is a small wolf pistol by one of the swords.
not sure if there's anything that can be done, just thought I should let you guys know
not sure if there's anything that can be done, just thought I should let you guys know
Wackykid5000
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2010
- Messages
- 4
This is probably going to sound silly, but would I have to replace Wolf for Lloyd? Or can I use another character?
You would have to replace Wolf.
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
Unless you know how to port the character properly, but I think some issues can occur from that.
Zephron
Smash Ace
Even if you magically ported everything over nicely, you'd have to re-do all of the sounds all over again.
Ultraxwing
Smash Ace
That wouldn't be fun, i'm still trying to figure out how to edit sounds, so i can well... make link sound <_< >_> like his CDI counter part. but it just crashes on me, but nontheless it has been done.
oh and sounds don't they need certain file sizes?
oh and sounds don't they need certain file sizes?
BSL
B-B-B-BLAMM!!!
If you just /resize="true" in riivolution, you should be good, right?
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
Yeah, I was pretty sure Riiv didn't have a problem with file sizes for the most part. It somehow literally just resizes them to fit.
Zephron
Smash Ace
You need to fit the sound effects properly in the smashsound.brsar though.
Sounds need to be the exact same length as the sound you're replacing.
I think PSA and other stuff can be made larger though.
Sounds need to be the exact same length as the sound you're replacing.
I think PSA and other stuff can be made larger though.
JamietheAuraUser
Smash Lord
Hey, are we gonna replace Wolf's "clawslash impact" sound with Lloyd's sword hit sound effect from ToS1? I think Wolf is the only one to use that particular slashing sound, so we could probably replace it without penalty.
Zephron
Smash Ace
He is, but I don't have any of those sound effects. Someone is going to have to rip them out for me.
It might be wise to rip out other sounds, like the ping when you use guardian and such.
It might be wise to rip out other sounds, like the ping when you use guardian and such.
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
Hey, temporarily speaking we could simply direct the claw slash call to another slash call like one of Marth's, Link's, or a general slashing sound until we get a replacement.
Avatar change, yus.
Avatar change, yus.
JamietheAuraUser
Smash Lord
Yeah, that's probably good for a temporary replacement. I'd say probably Marth's would fit best, either that or Pit's.
Speaking of Avatar Change...
Speaking of Avatar Change...
Zephron
Smash Ace
SqLeon apparently is only getting up at 3:00am in the morning and I keep missing him.
@GD
That avatar is awesome! Where did you get it?
I'm tempted to change mine now :X
@GD
That avatar is awesome! Where did you get it?
I'm tempted to change mine now :X
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
I searched "Legend of Zelda Skyward Sword" on deviantArt. This one was particularly hilarious and awesome 8D
AGFanProduction
Smash Journeyman
Hey Guys can someone help me...?
I want to put the Lloyd sound effects in this Smashbros_sound:
http://www.mediafire.com/?j3xlfbyzbim
I tried but I Fail
Can someone give me a Hand...?
I want to put the Lloyd sound effects in this Smashbros_sound:
http://www.mediafire.com/?j3xlfbyzbim
I tried but I Fail
Can someone give me a Hand...?
stickman
Smash Apprentice
is that a brsar in a zip or 98 mb of sounds you want in the brsar?Hey Guys can someone help me...?
I want to put the Lloyd sound effects in this Smashbros_sound:
http://www.mediafire.com/?j3xlfbyzbim
I tried but I Fail
Can someone give me a Hand...?
AGFanProduction
Smash Journeyman
Its a brsar with the Melee Mewtwo and Melee Captain Falcon sound effects, and I want the Lloyd sound effect In that brsar too
Can you give me a Hand...?
Please
stickman
Smash Apprentice
tell you what. i'm starting the hex packet movement VERY soon. i'll try to make a lloyd patch when i have time... if you have aim, yahoo, skype, msn, gtalk, or steam, just send me a message and keep reminding me
Wackykid5000
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2010
- Messages
- 4
Sorry, I'm a little confused. (I'm not very good at texture hacking.) What are the .DS_Store files for? Also, the sounds Lloyd makes comes with the pack right? because I put everything i nthe right folder and he still has Wolf's sounds. If I just didn't read and the sounds didn't come with the download then I apologize for my stupitidy.
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
Mac OS X will sometimes create those files under various circumstances. You should be able to just get rid of them.
I know this is a bit random but is there a guide on how to edit brsar's or if there's a list or something of which brsars go to which sounds. Cause I have the mewtwo one and the lloyd one but I can only have one at a time and I'm assuming I have to either rename one to something else or edit one sound file to go with the other. Assasin22red has like a bunch of them and I would like to also so any help would be very appreciated.
Richter Abend
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Messages
- 133
I had a thought recently.
Lloyd's hi-ougi in ToS and Mystic Arte in ToS: DotNW are the same name but different elements and hits.
For Lloyd's Final Smash, why not combine the two? You could use Link's or Ike's, but make him look slightly different.
When he gets the Smash Ball, pressing the B button makes him use a long distance move, like Rising Falcon. If it hits, the opponent gets attacked by swirling energy while he summons the Eternal Sword (The energy could be taken from the idle pose of texture hack Goddess Zelda v7) then he swings the sword upward, summoning a growing sphere of energy (Samus' default B), then slams the sword back down, doing an explosive finisher with a moderate range.
It's a ton to do, but I think a final smash like that would fit Lloyd best.
Total damage: 36-48%
Energy/slash hitbox: blade
Finisher hitbox: fire
EDIT: # of hits: 11
Length of time: 6-8 seconds
Lloyd's hi-ougi in ToS and Mystic Arte in ToS: DotNW are the same name but different elements and hits.
For Lloyd's Final Smash, why not combine the two? You could use Link's or Ike's, but make him look slightly different.
When he gets the Smash Ball, pressing the B button makes him use a long distance move, like Rising Falcon. If it hits, the opponent gets attacked by swirling energy while he summons the Eternal Sword (The energy could be taken from the idle pose of texture hack Goddess Zelda v7) then he swings the sword upward, summoning a growing sphere of energy (Samus' default B), then slams the sword back down, doing an explosive finisher with a moderate range.
It's a ton to do, but I think a final smash like that would fit Lloyd best.
Total damage: 36-48%
Energy/slash hitbox: blade
Finisher hitbox: fire
EDIT: # of hits: 11
Length of time: 6-8 seconds
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
I'm curious on what others think of your idea. My main issue with most of the MA's in ToS2 (like I said before) was how the actual hit just kind of happened somewhere in there. However, if we would instead just have a heavy hit at the end (which you said), that'd be fine.
Richter Abend
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Messages
- 133
If you could run it by them, I would be very grateful. I'd do it myself, but I lack the time and programs...
All I can do is make suggestions. Sorry for that...
I think you'd be better off modifying Ike's final smash than Link's, mainly because of the timing of the voice effects, but also because Ike's more strongly resembles Falcon's Crest/Divine Justice.
Yeah...I think that'd be best. Slap that Final Smash on Lloyd, but replace Ike's voice with his voice from one of the ToS games.
One problem I foresee, though, is getting Lloyd's swords to either transform into the Eternal Sword, or the blade of light he used in DotNW, during the FS. Hmm...
All I can do is make suggestions. Sorry for that...
I think you'd be better off modifying Ike's final smash than Link's, mainly because of the timing of the voice effects, but also because Ike's more strongly resembles Falcon's Crest/Divine Justice.
Yeah...I think that'd be best. Slap that Final Smash on Lloyd, but replace Ike's voice with his voice from one of the ToS games.
One problem I foresee, though, is getting Lloyd's swords to either transform into the Eternal Sword, or the blade of light he used in DotNW, during the FS. Hmm...
GP&B
Ike 'n' Ike
Nah, it's perfectly fine. Ironically, I can't do much myself. PSA is the only thing I could potentially get into to help, but my PC access is rather limited (I'm on a Mac and I need to order Windows at some point).
Richter Abend
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2009
- Messages
- 133
I also have a suggestion for Lloyd's final PSA.
Forward A: Overhead slash (link to default A combo from placeholder)
Down A: Low thrust (link to default A combo from placeholder)
Up A: Jump and upward slash, basically a .25 slower version of Marth's Up B
Dash A: Super Sonic Thrust (But actually Cross Thrust from ToS Unison Attack)
Forward Smash: Fierce Demon Fang (slash hitbox, 4 hits, 12-16 damage)
Upward Smash: Tiger Rage (slash hitbox, 4 hits, slams down on last hit, 15-19 damage)
Down Smash: Raging Beast (first two hits slash hitbox, third melee hitbox, 3 hits, med-high knockback, 14-19 damage)
Neutral Air: Tempest (4 hits, slash hitbox, 12 damage)
Upward Air: Backflip kick (melee hitbox, ?? damage)
Down Air: Rising Falcon (slash hitbox, 11 damage, medium knockback)
Forward Air: ???
Backward Air: ???
Default B: Demon Fang (from placeholder)
Forward B: Sonic Thrust (Marth's default B, change glow to red)
Down B: Hunting Beast (first hitbox melee, second hitbox paralyzer effect [1.5 seconds long], third hitbox melee with high knockback, 22 total damage)
Upward B: Omega Tempest/Psi Tempest (slash hitbox, 6-10 hits, 2-3 damage per hit)
Not too sure about this, but let me know what you think of it.
Forward A: Overhead slash (link to default A combo from placeholder)
Down A: Low thrust (link to default A combo from placeholder)
Up A: Jump and upward slash, basically a .25 slower version of Marth's Up B
Dash A: Super Sonic Thrust (But actually Cross Thrust from ToS Unison Attack)
Forward Smash: Fierce Demon Fang (slash hitbox, 4 hits, 12-16 damage)
Upward Smash: Tiger Rage (slash hitbox, 4 hits, slams down on last hit, 15-19 damage)
Down Smash: Raging Beast (first two hits slash hitbox, third melee hitbox, 3 hits, med-high knockback, 14-19 damage)
Neutral Air: Tempest (4 hits, slash hitbox, 12 damage)
Upward Air: Backflip kick (melee hitbox, ?? damage)
Down Air: Rising Falcon (slash hitbox, 11 damage, medium knockback)
Forward Air: ???
Backward Air: ???
Default B: Demon Fang (from placeholder)
Forward B: Sonic Thrust (Marth's default B, change glow to red)
Down B: Hunting Beast (first hitbox melee, second hitbox paralyzer effect [1.5 seconds long], third hitbox melee with high knockback, 22 total damage)
Upward B: Omega Tempest/Psi Tempest (slash hitbox, 6-10 hits, 2-3 damage per hit)
Not too sure about this, but let me know what you think of it.