Tales of Brawl - Innerscope has released Lloyd 2.0!

[Richter Abend]

Dammit. Here is when I wish I could be more of an asset than a mere fan of your work...

But I've too much blo...I mean, business to do work like this.

 

[kisamefishfries]

Yeah, we're using the area around the New World Tree from ToS2 for Lloyd's stage.

Unless you mean a ToS1 stage.

The New World Tree is a good idea that I never thought of, but I was thinking more of a tower of salvation or Derris Kharlan stage or somewhere else with a major fight.

 

[GP&B]

For that to work, there would have to have been a model somewhere in there that we could use. Otherwise, making it from scratch would be quite difficult.

Plus, thanyou worked hard with Mewtwo_2000 to get the NWT to where it is and I think it's quite fine. Still, if we could do something in the future for it, that would be cool.

 

[kisamefishfries]

For that to work, there would have to have been a model somewhere in there that we could use. Otherwise, making it from scratch would be quite difficult.

Plus, thanyou worked hard with Mewtwo_2000 to get the NWT to where it is and I think it's quite fine. Still, if we could do something in the future for it, that would be cool.

Is NWT up for Download yet?

 

[Zephron]

For that to work, there would have to have been a model somewhere in there that we could use. Otherwise, making it from scratch would be quite difficult.

Plus, thanyou worked hard with Mewtwo_2000 to get the NWT to where it is and I think it's quite fine. Still, if we could do something in the future for it, that would be cool.

We REALLY need to get some PSA work done, so I think we need to totally find some PSA people to help us. I'll start asking.

 

[BSL]

I have NWT... If there isn't a link, can I share it?

Mine might just be one of his betas, though. I'll pass.

 

[kisamefishfries]

We REALLY need to get some PSA work done, so I think we need to totally find some PSA people to help us. I'll start asking.

TheShyGuy at KittyCorp is good at PSA im sure he would help
Anyways... How about the stage? I just downloaded the BETA and you guys have the music. ( also Just saying seeing how making music files is really easy, you guys should add beat the angel, its the angel fight music remiel, Zelos, Kratos Battles. I have the music file but the looping sucks and whatnot.)

 

[Plaid02]

I did the music, and I could easily add those if you want me to. The Kratos battle song is definitely in there, though, I remember doing that one. Is there any other ToS music that people want me to add? I just picked my personal favorites of the ToS songs; I'm sure there are others that people might want.

 

[JetAurion]

You should list what songs you've added: I'm pretty sure you don't want multiple requests of the same song.

 

[Ronaldmcdonald]

So has new world tree been released?

 

[GP&B]

Page 21 when thanyou last posted, he had update pictures. However, I did not see a download link.

Maybe it slipped my mind, but where did you get the NWT stage, BSL? I wouldn't mind linking it for the time being.

 

[BSL]

i got it from thanyou. skype, lol

umm... lets see if i still have it.

its a .rar: Island version.rar

inside is what im assuming is the textures extracted from the model, a few different versions, presumably alpha. i never tried them so i dont know if they work.

http://www.mediafire.com/?r1v9i4425urg2x9

 

[kisamefishfries]

Page 21 when thanyou last posted, he had update pictures. However, I did not see a download link.

Maybe it slipped my mind, but where did you get the NWT stage, BSL? I wouldn't mind linking it for the time being.

Hey man I don't think the music files are working, I tried to listen to them in GUI and it said there was an error reading them.

 

[Plaid02]

I'm pretty sure the music files are working... I know Zeph and I haven't had any problems. Does anyone else want to confirm the music files work? I could reupload or something. Anyway, here are the names of the songs. Also, if someone has a better copy of Full Force, I could kinda use that because the one I had was fading out as it started to play something different so I could only loop part of the song. The part that's looped works fine, but I think it's missing some of the song.

Anyway, list.

Fighting of the Spirit
Full Force
Keen-Edged Blade
Keep Your Guard Up
Like a Glint of Light
The End of a Thought
The Law of the Battle
Won the Battle

Anyway, I have time to take requests for others and stuff. I was very careful to make sure these are looped perfectly, though, so tell me if they're not.

EDIT: For some reason Fatalize is not there. I thought it was. I definitely have it on my Wii; it's my favorite one.

 

[ryuu seika]

Hi guys. As you can see, I'm new to these forums and you can probably guess my reason for joining. You likely won't see me anywhere else around these boards but I just had to say that, of all the reasons I wish my wii could read brawl, this is by far the greatest! I bought soul calibur legends for Lloyd alone and would certainly mod my wii for the same reason if I could.

If it isn't too much work, I would love to see you reverse engineer an N64 version but you are clearly very busy being awesome so definitely don't let my wishes get in the way of your amazing work.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

Wait, your Wii can't read Brawl? That shouldn't happen. Unless you've got a Wii from a different place than the game, but then you could just use Gecko OS to force the right version for your Wii.

 

[JetAurion]

It could be a dirty disc lens.

 

[Richter Abend]

Or it could be a pirated copy disguised as an actual Brawl game, unless you bought it brand-new from the store.

 

[Zephron]

It could be a dirty disc lens.

This is most likely the case. The same problem happened to me.

Brawl is a dual layered disc, unlike most games on the Wii. Because of this, you need an extra clean laser in order to read it.

Take all traces of hacks off of your Wii and then send it in to Nintendo for a good cleaning. They'll give you your Wii back all nice and clean and then it'll be able to play brawl.

Its free, so I don't see the issue besides the whole not being able to use your wii during that time period thing.

 

[Nagito Izanagi]

Feel free to tell us any suggestions.

We can't incorporate everyone's, but we'll be sure to take it into account.
Also, most of the O.P is kind of dated moveset wise. We have an entire moveset but it's buried somewhere between pages 20 and 40.

Well, with moves I've personally seen Lloyd do. This is just an opinion of sorts and only an opinion of what move you could give Lloyd.


For Special-wise

Neutral B would be Demon Fang. It shouldn't be chargable because of the original idea I had. It should be able to have a three shot limit. (demonic chaos) So it would be spamable. But it would have a cooldown time. To prevent multiple demon fangs from beating you down. This move is meant to stun the opponent for a brief moment, so this would have zero knockback.

Up B would be Blazing Tempest from Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World. In dawn of the new world this move was given to Lloyd, due to the fact Lloyd was given an elemental attribute. This move has both horizonal and vertical length as a recovery move, mostly horizonal length.

Down B would be Guardian from the original game. It would act as a counterattack/reflector for Lloyd. Image-wise, it could look like Wolf's reflector only green. Uhm, I'm guessing it should have the same counterattack strength as Marth's Counter.

Side B would be Beast. It would be a shield breaker attack, and it would be chargable.


Neutral Air would be Tempest. This is meant rack up damage.

Down Air would be his Meteor Smash, Rising Phoenix.

So far, this is what I thought up. If you like the ideas you can use them. if not it's fine. I just want to see how Lloyd will be like in the end. He's a great combo master, that's why I'm hoping he'll combo well in battle.

 

[kisamefishfries]

Hey guys my Brawl isn't letting me upload any hacks over the stages.... 75MM and temple I think, BUT I really wouldn't care but thats the stage NWT goes over.

 

[GP&B]

Odd, are you re-directing it over the proper stage with an .rel file?

 

[[TSON]]

Well, with moves I've personally seen Lloyd do. This is just an opinion of sorts and only an opinion of what move you could give Lloyd.


For Special-wise

Neutral B would be Demon Fang. It shouldn't be chargable because of the original idea I had. It should be able to have a three shot limit. (demonic chaos) So it would be spamable. But it would have a cooldown time. To prevent multiple demon fangs from beating you down. This move is meant to stun the opponent for a brief moment, so this would have zero knockback.

Up B would be Blazing Tempest from Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World. In dawn of the new world this move was given to Lloyd, due to the fact Lloyd was given an elemental attribute. This move has both horizonal and vertical length as a recovery move, mostly horizonal length.

Down B would be Guardian from the original game. It would act as a counterattack/reflector for Lloyd. Image-wise, it could look like Wolf's reflector only green. Uhm, I'm guessing it should have the same counterattack strength as Marth's Counter.

Side B would be Beast. It would be a shield breaker attack, and it would be chargable.


Neutral Air would be Tempest. This is meant rack up damage.

Down Air would be his Meteor Smash, Rising Phoenix.

So far, this is what I thought up. If you like the ideas you can use them. if not it's fine. I just want to see how Lloyd will be like in the end. He's a great combo master, that's why I'm hoping he'll combo well in battle.

That's his old SSF2 Moveset >_>

 

[GP&B]

Pretty much >_>.

I got some inspiration from the SSF2 moveset such as Nair for Tempest (although that didn't stick in the end which is perfectly fine), but we also aren't at the limitations of sprites (doesn't make animating much easier though).

 

[TommoPuppy]

Hey guys my Brawl isn't letting me upload any hacks over the stages.... 75MM and temple I think, BUT I really wouldn't care but thats the stage NWT goes over.

I'm willing to bet that you're a PAL user like me. I have problems with 75m and Temple too.

 

[BSL]

This is most likely the case. The same problem happened to me.

Brawl is a dual layered disc, unlike most games on the Wii. Because of this, you need an extra clean laser in order to read it.

Take all traces of hacks off of your Wii and then send it in to Nintendo for a good cleaning. They'll give you your Wii back all nice and clean and then it'll be able to play brawl.

Its free, so I don't see the issue besides the whole not being able to use your wii during that time period thing.

other downside is 4.3, so you cant put homebrew back on, except for what you can load through smashstack/stacksmash(whatever its called) and stuff.

 

[PolygonLink]

Can't you put Riivolution on 4.3?

 

[BSL]

oh, i dont know. i thought when they updated it for 4.3, they meant it was compatible with wiis on 4.3. maybe you can install it, idk.

 

[Fen__]

I'm not sure that they update the firmware when you send it in, actually, but either way, we're straying a little off-topic.

 

[Richter Abend]

Well, with moves I've personally seen Lloyd do. This is just an opinion of sorts and only an opinion of what move you could give Lloyd.


For Special-wise

Neutral B would be Demon Fang. It shouldn't be chargable because of the original idea I had. It should be able to have a three shot limit. (demonic chaos) So it would be spamable. But it would have a cooldown time. To prevent multiple demon fangs from beating you down. This move is meant to stun the opponent for a brief moment, so this would have zero knockback.

Up B would be Blazing Tempest from Tales of Symphonia Dawn of the New World. In dawn of the new world this move was given to Lloyd, due to the fact Lloyd was given an elemental attribute. This move has both horizonal and vertical length as a recovery move, mostly horizonal length.

Down B would be Guardian from the original game. It would act as a counterattack/reflector for Lloyd. Image-wise, it could look like Wolf's reflector only green. Uhm, I'm guessing it should have the same counterattack strength as Marth's Counter.

Side B would be Beast. It would be a shield breaker attack, and it would be chargable.


Neutral Air would be Tempest. This is meant rack up damage.

Down Air would be his Meteor Smash, Rising Phoenix.

So far, this is what I thought up. If you like the ideas you can use them. if not it's fine. I just want to see how Lloyd will be like in the end. He's a great combo master, that's why I'm hoping he'll combo well in battle.

Hm. I like this as much as my suggestion. But Lloyd would need to be balanced, not cheap. So I'm not partial to the idea of making him a combo user. No offense meant, but Demon Fang should stay as it is. I do support Guardian, though, and Rising Phoenix in place of Rising Falcon.

 

[GP&B]

I think the placeholder moveset's current idea for Guardian is both easy to balance and blends perfectly into normal play. You get an extra shield option that also has its obvious drawbacks. It's incredibly unique to Lloyd (and maybe other ToS characters when we eventually get there).

 

[ryuu seika]

I'm pretty certain my wii simply suffers from the laser problem but from what I've seen from nintendo's website, they only appear to take wiis from america and japan, not european ones.

For Lloyds moveset, I'd suggest his Soul Calibur Legends "Sonic Slash" for his dash attack. As it's likely not very well known, I'll explain what it is: It is a base Arte (Tech) that extends into Rising Phoenix/Falcon where Lloyd rushes forward (along the ground) with swords out to his sides. It does not have its own voice file so a basic attack noise should be fine for it if you do use it.
Also, a second button press should probably extend Demon Fang into Double Demon Fang but a third almost certainly shouldn't extend it further as both versions of Demonic Chaos would likely be unfair.

EDIT: never mind, Double Demon Fang has already been shot down. It's probably for the best though and is made up for easily by having ariel Demon Fang instead. I still suggest Sonic Slash though.

EDIT 2: Blazing tempest is an awesome move and actually exist in every game Lloyd make an appearance in but the gamecube version of Symphonia (in the PS2 version it's an elemental Tech used after 150 uses of Tempest when dealing fire damage, in RadiMyth it's a seperate Arte, I don't know about VS but in Soul Calibur Legends it's a Tempest upgrade when using his 3rd and 4th weapons). I would suggest though, that Tempest and Blazing Tempest use the same button and direction combination, with Blazing being the from ground version.

Also, under no circumstances should Lloyd get Rising Phoenix. Rising Phoenix is Cless's Tech while Falcon is unique to Lloyd and therefore one of his iconic moves.

 

[kisamefishfries]

I'm willing to bet that you're a PAL user like me. I have problems with 75m and Temple too.

Nope not pal, Im going to asume that I needed a Rel file, I'm working on a marth PSA and the UP B is a version of psi tempest now if only it would move up....
Not the point though, I can try contacting shyguy for Coding if you guys want.

EDIT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jOTYFjcERY
this is a link for a video to put homebrew on a 4.3 wii, triede it and it works

 

[Plaid02]

Not meaning to sound rude, but please read the moveset and some of the discussion of it before making suggestions. It should be in the OP, right? Also, the discussion should be around pages 15-20. As much as it's a lot to ask to read the discussion, it's most likely your suggested changes have already been discussed in detail.

In my moveset, Psi Tempest is Up B while Tempest is Utilt. For a little bit more varied of a moveset (and as much as I hate ToS2), I'm willing to consider the idea of using Blazing Tempest instead of Tempest as the Utilt (Tempest is not very different from Psi Tempest).

 

[GP&B]

I have indeed linked the moveset in the OP.

Also ryuu, where does Cless use Rising Phoenix? Is it in the remakes or the original because I've gotten near the end of SNES ToP and haven't seen anything like that.

I tried suggesting an idea of Demon Fang -> Double Demon Fang from the beginning but it was indeed shot down. There was suggestions for charging on the other side, but we ended up agreeing on just simple Demon Fang. My idea is that it'll serve similar utility to forcing enemies stand up in ToS. In a Smash Bros. setting, it'll be great for tech chasing or punishing missed techs more so than just being a projectile.

I think it's hard to classify Tempest's purpose as a UTilt. Maybe using the same base arte twice in the moveset isn't great, but in theory, it sounds like a move with great platform and shield pressure. The alternative was probably something similar to Link's UTilt.

@kisame
Yeah, if you could do that (contact shyguy), we'd really appreciate it.

 

[Plaid02]

I totally forgot to address the current move discussion. First off, I also like Guardian where it was put by... me. I can still justify it, though. GD seems to have beaten me to the punch on that one, though.

I suppose now that we seem to be bringing back the debate of Rising Falcon/Beast on Side/Down B, I will put in my input... Again. You guys should really read some of the earlier pages.

Anyway, I put Beast on Down B for several reasons. The primary reason for its placement is the necessity of aerial alteration. You can't do Beast in the air, which led to discussion of what would happen. Some recommendations included just making it not usable in the air, but a much superior option, in my opinion, was to change Beast to the last part of Hunting Beast in the air. Lloyd doesn't do the initial part, but he plummets downward and slams his sword on the ground. The hitbox as he's going down is a downwards hit that takes you with him. The real hit with knockback is when he makes contact with the ground. As you may remember from the attack, there's a bluish shockwave that knocks foes on their backs in ToS. However, this entire solution makes absolutely no sense if Beast is a Side B.

Other reasons include Rising Falcon being predominantly sideways. Also, I recommended that the angle be made even slightly shallower than it was in-game. The initial jump would not be very high, and the dive would be relatively shallow. I heard some recommendations that Rising Falcon be made into a move similar to Falcon Kick in trajectory, but that simply does not make any sense, particularly if you look at Rising Falcon in the game.

Also, the arguments against using Rising Phoenix are very right; it should be Rising Falcon.

kthx

 

[ryuu seika]

Also ryuu, where does Cless use Rising Phoenix? Is it in the remakes or the original because I've gotten near the end of SNES ToP and haven't seen anything like that.

IIRC it was one of the skills which you had to find and purchase (in all versions) and was probably the only base tech you had to do that with. I'll check but I'm pretty sure I had it in the snes version as well as the gba version.

EDIT: apparently you have to be in the future to purchase it but it's definitely there.

EDIT 2: Beast has always been Down B in my ToS set up, as has Impact, Raging Blast and every other tech with similar functionality. Downing someone just feels like a Down B y'know?
Rising Falcon, on the other hand, feels like more of a Neutral or Up B but those spots are much better filled by Tempest (Blazing, Psi, ordinary or Omega) and Demon Fang. Despite the wierdness of it, Rising Falcon must be Side B if it is to be on the basic Tech set. It's not as if it would make any more sense as a Down B anyway.
Personally, I'd like Sword Rain: Alpha as Side B as it's a lot more fitting but you can't just ditch rising falcon when it's one of Lloyd's iconic moves and you apparently have other uses for Sword Rain.

 

[kisamefishfries]

@kisame
Yeah, if you could do that (contact shyguy), we'd really appreciate it.

DONE, but he is working on some sora psa so he might say no.
EDIT: He said no he said hes busy working on Sora and he is trying to make a program in C#

 

[GP&B]

@kisame
Dang, a shame to hear that. I'm really hoping to get another PSA guy on here.

As far as move placement goes for specials, I settled it temporarily by saying that it's very easy to transfer the move data to another input if found necessary. When we eventually get this moveset completed, we're going to test some different inputs on Beast/HB and RF and see what people like the most.

SR's input and function has been debated quite a bit. Some argued that it fit well into the end of a jab. Others argued that it's more proper as a DTilt. Some extraneous functions were also being debated such as transitioning into Alpha, Beta, or Sonic SR through directional input.

 

[kisamefishfries]

you know, if you want my opinion on the moveset set the up tilit to tigerblade and tempest to side. Tempest is more of a distance attack in the game if you think of it. The other versions of tempest get a bit more hieght but regular tempest is just like a foot or 2 off the groud, where tigerblade doesn't make sense as a side tilt. Thats just my opinion but I think it would feel more natural.