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TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

JustMyself13

Smash Journeyman
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Jul 12, 2014
Messages
369
Phoenix wouldn't need martial arts added to his kit. Just use the sprite poses for aerials and you got that covered. Smash attacks could use items he used in the games, and tilts don't matter as nearly everyone has made-up ones anyway.
Do you think you could elaborate on your ideas for his aerials? I can easily see a pointing forward air, but I'm having trouble envisioning any other ones.
 

RawkHawk2010

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What do you guys think are the most likely possibilities for Phoenix's recovery? I know there's "the stepladder" as a last resort but my mind keeps going to Sarge's drone.

P.S. Add me to the supporters list.
 

Dukemon102

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This thread being so active (We went from 2900s to 3500s pages in a few days) and the huge number of new people coming to support Nick makes me really happy.

Pearl excited.gif
 

JustMyself13

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Messages
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What do you guys think are the most likely possibilities for Phoenix's recovery? I know there's "the stepladder" as a last resort but my mind keeps going to Sarge's drone.

P.S. Add me to the supporters list.
Stepladder or riot. Make it like Sonic's spring but with the weight of Pac-Man's hydrant. It can be used by other characters so ladder attacks can be utilized in competitive play.

EDIT: I'd also like to be on the list!
 
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ThunderSageNun

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What do you guys think are the most likely possibilities for Phoenix's recovery? I know there's "the stepladder" as a last resort but my mind keeps going to Sarge's drone.

P.S. Add me to the supporters list.
Riding Max Galactica flying bust
 

Flyboy

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From what I hear the stepladder joke isn't as prominent in the Japanese version, so we may have things like a character giving him a boost, a sneeze that propels him skyward, or perhaps the witness stand appearing under him like how Incineroar's ring ropes pop up out of the ground.
 

Wyoming

Connery, Sean
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I want to revisit my moveset concept for him.

Phoenix Wright, moveset concept #4:

Mechanic: Evidence Collecting - Phoenix must look around for evidence during the fight, but the battle determines how likely he is to find it.

Misc:

Standing animation: In his neutral stance/pose. He will ponder while using his thinking animation when left alone.

Walking animation: Walks like a human as that's what he is.

Dash attack: He will release his case file at the end of it, releasing papers. Similar to a Marvel attack, just after a run.

Jab: First two hits are standard punches, followed by multi-hit use of papers from a case file he opens (see: Robin for similar effect)

Grabs: Phoenix unleashes an "Objection!" speech bubble near him. if hit, he grabs you and does the standard throwing shenanigans. Bonus points if Athena's judo over head back throw is his back throw.

Taunts: Confidence pose. Shrugging pose. Looks at his attorney's badge.

Victory Poses: Maya appears. So does confetti.


Smash attacks:

Side-Smash: Unleashes finger point that enlarges when used (see: Wario), When fully charge, he will shout "Objection!".

Up-Smash: Uses that strong head of his that survived being hit by a car, a sword, and a telephone pole and sends enemies upwards. References his (comical) sturdiness from across the series.

Down Smash: Uses a brief case where, fully charged, will open and have some things spill out of it from the front. Has no hitbox behind Phoenix. References Spirit of Justice prologue (loosely).

Aerials:

Neutral-Air: The confidence pose is used here. Functions like a sex kick, except the sweetspot is located within the elbow region.

Up-Air: Uses the spikes of his hair as a hitbox. Has the spike effect when it connects. He uses his shock sprite pose during it.

Forward-Air: Similar to side smash, BUT quicker and less powerful. This is loosely referencing his pointing animation without the objection oomph he does sometimes.

Back-Air: Probably needs a Smash made one to work like other characters in the past. I could see Ryu's working here.

Down-Air: Desk slam without the desk. Enlarges hands a bit to show strength.

Tilts:

Up-Tilt: Just make something up. Can be anything that works on his model.

Side-Tilt: Extends his leg vertically in a upwards trajectory.

Down-Tilt: Tries to examine the ground, doing a "digging" motion. This makes his hands into a hitbox. Similar to a Marvel attack, kind of.

Specials:

Neutral: Court Record - combines itself with the main mechanic of evidence collecting. Similarly to Marvel, you use it in an attempt to find evidence that can be used. The way you find evidence depends on the battle: The more your opponent attacks, the more likely you are to find evidence to use against him. The evidence is found by using neutral special to make Phoenix look at the ground. If he finds nothing, the attack is null. If he finds something, you can either unleash it immediately with another input, or shield to keep the evidence for later. The more evidence you have, the more firepower they will have once you release them. To release all the evidence, simply press B whilst holding at least one piece. You have a limit of three pieces. The pieces can be seen on his character render UI.

Side-Special: Attorney's Badge. Very specific hitbox, but if the opponent connects an attack on Phoenix, then the attorney's badge blinds the opponent and temporarily gives them the disabled effect for a very short time. The opponent has to be within range. Basically functions like a counter but setups counter attacks rather than a defensive/neutral move. Projectiles will trigger the attack but not the opponent if they are out of range.

Up-Special: Mr. Hat. He is summoned by Trucy, and he helps Phoenix back onto stage in arc movement. Think Meta Knight, but more wide than upwards.

Down Special: Magatama. Use it to stick a psyche lock on someone. If it connects, you can make it explode by throwing your evidence at it for increased power. The goal is to combined your locks and evidence for a more devastating blow. If no evidence is thrown at it in time, the psyche lock fails to explode...just like in the games if you fail to beat them. The lifebar appears as a timer for its appearance on the opposing character's render UI.

The goal for Phoenix is to survive long enough to counter-attack the opponent due to mistakes they make like in Ace Attorney. I think this is portrayed excellently in the mechanic and specials.



Final Smash: Courtroom Objection - Similar to Phoenix's Level 3 in Marvel. Phoenix will spawn a desk upon use. If hit by the desk, a cutscene begins. The difference is that Mia will appear, referencing
a certain scene in Trials & Tribulations.
 
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Arctiq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 23, 2015
Messages
314
From what I hear the stepladder joke isn't as prominent in the Japanese version, so we may have things like a character giving him a boost, a sneeze that propels him skyward, or perhaps the witness stand appearing under him like how Incineroar's ring ropes pop up out of the ground.
I was thinking a while ago that it would be cool if Max Galactica could be used as his Up-B. It could even reference the second opening for the anime.
 

Krankees

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Is it as good as the final case of the first game? That one is my current favorite.
Oh yeah definitely, to me it felt like a great way to end the trilogy.
From what I hear the stepladder joke isn't as prominent in the Japanese version, so we may have things like a character giving him a boost, a sneeze that propels him skyward, or perhaps the witness stand appearing under him like how Incineroar's ring ropes pop up out of the ground.
If :ultwiifittrainer: can use hula hoops to recover, I'm sure phoenix can have something.
 

Flyboy

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Is it as good as the final case of the first game? That one is my current favorite.
Everyone has a different favorite Ace Attorney game and a different favorite Ace Attorney case and, despite my personal feelings, I would argue that they're all correct. It's definitely one of the best, right up there with RFTA, 2-4, and several of my personal favorites.

I think T&T is probably the objective "best" game in the series, but it's not my favorite, though it has a lot of my favorite parts. I'm really glad to see more people playing and enjoying this awesome series.
 

Arctiq

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Messages
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I want to revisit my moveset concept for him.

Phoenix Wright, moveset concept #4:
Specials:


Neutral: Court Record - combines itself with the main mechanic of evidence collecting. Similarly to Marvel, you use it in an attempt to find evidence that can be used. The way you find evidence depends on the battle: The more your opponent attacks, the more likely you are to find evidence to use against him. The evidence is found by using neutral special to make Phoenix look at the ground. If he finds nothing, the attack is null. If he finds something, you can either unleash it immediately with another input, or shield to keep the evidence for later. The more evidence you have, the more firepower they will have once you release them. To release all the evidence, simply press B whilst holding at least one piece. You have a limit of three pieces. The pieces can be seen on his character render UI.
Would it be balanced better if you could get the evidence knocked out of you like the dragoon parts?
Similarly to how Von Karma attacks you and steals the evidence in the fourth case?
 
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Wyoming

Connery, Sean
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Would it be balanced better if you could get the evidence knocked out of you like the dragoon parts?
Similarly to how Von Karma attacks you and steals the evidence in the fourth case?
That could be a thing, yes! My goal in mind was to have Phoenix start off lacking potency in his specials, only to gradually get more as the fight goes on. I felt like rewarding good survivor skills as rewarding to play, but also fitting as the cases in Ace Attorney tend to start urgently for him but end on a smoother note.

Phoenix is a defensive character that gradually becomes more dangerous the more mistakes (whiffs, shield hits, spamming) you do without KO'ing him. The opponent should not want Phoenix to stay alive too long, otherwise he'll start finding ways to mess you up. Similarly to how prosecutors regret not closing him down way earlier. He bluffs, and I want to see that kind of diea in Smash for him.

I should note that if Phoenix gets KO'd, the whole process starts a new.
 

JustMyself13

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Messages
369
I guess I might as well give my idea for an evidence mechanic:

Gimmick: Turnabout Smash - Much like Villager and Isabelle, Phoenix can pocket enemy projectiles and items to use as evidence, as well as find his own evidence through his neutral special, Investigation. When using Investigation, Phoenix kneels to the ground in search of new evidence, which is randomly acquired with varying effects, power, and rarities. Phoenix can either use his evidence directly after finding it or store it in the Court Record, which allows Phoenix to hold up to three pieces of evidence, which are visible in a unique UI display next to his portrait. The unique evidence that Phoenix can find is listed as follows:

-The Thinker as a heavy projectile like Simon’s axe
-Cell phone that puts opponents to sleep while playing Toccatta and Fugue in an aura
-Cardboard badge that does 1%
-Samurai Spear that’s thrown in an arch and breaks into two pieces after it impacts
-Coldkiller X bottle that gives opponents a poison effect if hit by it
-Steel Samurai ball that bounces on stage in a fixed arch, low % but high knockback like the bumper

The more rare evidence Phoenix has at a time (enemy projectiles are considered medium rarity), the stronger and faster he becomes, though it has a limit. To balance this out, Phoenix loses evidence over time and when being hit over an accumulated percent threshold.

EDIT: Removed Phoenix's badge as evidence because he wouldn't let it leave his body if he had the choice.
 
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Wyoming

Connery, Sean
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When Phoenix loses, he should have an unique "clapping" animation where he holds his head in shame/despair.
 

JustMyself13

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Messages
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When Phoenix loses, he should have an unique "clapping" animation where he holds his head in shame/despair.
Or better yet, it shows him in that animation and then
background-ClosedDoors.png

Sweating/worried should be his shield break animation.
 
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ThunderSageNun

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I was about to post this, damn, guess I wasn't fast enough :4sonic:
I guess one of those flying samurai he summons in PxZ2 could work as well, but it feels more fantastical than AA should be, spirit channeling nonwithstanding.
 

ThunderSageNun

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I can buy verge getting wrong info (it's not like it hasn't happened before), or jumping to wrong conclusions, but lying at this point is uh...I dunno, doesn't seem like something they'd do from what we know about them.
 

Arctiq

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Messages
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So, uh, having glanced the thread JustMyself13 JustMyself13 's quote is from for a moment, I hear Fatman apparently claimed that Verge lied about there not being a Bamco character next?

Well, this is great, in addition to opposing sides, we have political slander now. :facepalm:
I'm not sure Fatman is an actual insider. I wouldn't take his word as gospel.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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I'm not sure Fatman is an actual insider. I wouldn't take his word as gospel.
Yeah I know, but he's really putting himself in hot water on this one. if he and his associate Sabi didn't come under fire before, they'll be torn apart by the fans like Jesus after the VGAs.

There was a problem fetching the tweet
 
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Flyboy

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So, uh, having glanced the thread JustMyself13 JustMyself13 's quote is from for a moment, I hear Fatman apparently claimed that Verge lied about there not being a Bamco character next?

Well, this is great, in addition to opposing sides, we have political slander now. :facepalm:
Fatman is talking out of his ass because he really really wants Geno and will do absolutely anything to make his weird theories make sense. He's not an insider, he just picks up tiny crumbs of info and then spins wild theories that always lead to Geno. Of course there's always the possibility that Verge or Sabi are wrong or have been mislead, but there's nothing to even suggest that he would be "lying".
 
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MissingGlitch

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Jan 18, 2019
Messages
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When Phoenix loses, he should have an unique "clapping" animation where he holds his head in shame/despair.
I hope he becomes the only character with a prop in his losing animation. He needs the defendant table for this to work effectively.
 
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StormC

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Oct 29, 2014
Messages
8,182
I hope he becomes the only character with a prop in his losing animation. He needs the defendant table for this to work effectively.
I'm having trouble picturing how they would put this in the screen and not have it look totally awkward, lol.

Imagine a No Contest screen with 8 Phoenixes.
 

StormC

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Messages
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Why not, we have Chrom defeating himself via Robin's FS due to lack of dev time. There's been sillier things in here.
It's more that I don't understand how the table would look in a big empty field. Would it just be a stand that's isolated from everything else?
 

MissingGlitch

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It is super nice to see more people finding this thread and it being more active

I guess all those "deconfirmations" were a blessing for us.
 

JustMyself13

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You know, I haven’t really thought about this, but I would really love it if Phoenix had some degree of cel-shading as a whole. We don’t really have any characters in that art style except for maybe Ryu’s focus attack, but it would work for Phoenix really well.
 

MissingGlitch

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You know, I haven’t really thought about this, but I would really love it if Phoenix had some degree of cel-shading as a whole. We don’t really have any characters in that art style except for maybe Ryu’s focus attack, but it would work for Phoenix really well.
I don't think that will work well. Smash prides itself in making all the characters look like they are supposed to be there. Cel Shaded Phoenix would look out of place.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Yeah, and cel shading is really only a thing in the 3DS version of 4, and it's limited to outlines.

I would understand if it was done as an alt for Viewtiful Joe, but since his chances are infinitesimal at best, as it stands, nah.
 
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ThunderSageNun

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Regardless of whether verge is right or wrong, I'll be a little surprised if he doesn't give Capcom the axe if his sources tell him it's not them given how much users must be pestering him about it.
You know, I haven’t really thought about this, but I would really love it if Phoenix had some degree of cel-shading as a whole. We don’t really have any characters in that art style except for maybe Ryu’s focus attack, but it would work for Phoenix really well.
It'd be cool, but I doubt Phoenix will get that treatment given Jokers potrayal despite P5 being super stylized, and I don't recall any of the 3DS games using much of this. The one character I could see receiving that (as in, a unique visual recreation) is Amaterasu given how Okami is all about the watercolor-esque visuals.
 
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AceAttorney9000

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I love ace attorney, but I was always against Phoenix in smash because I hate movesets that just add random martial arts to characters that don't have them
Phoenix wouldn't need martial arts added to his kit.
Reminds me of an old joke from the MVC3/UMVC3 speculation days, where someone said that Wright would just be a Ryu clone based entirely on his Japanese name being "Ryūichi Naruhodō". There was even a bad photoshop of Wright wearing Ryu's headband.

Another funny bit from that era: Godot being a playable character who could shoot eye lasers from his visor, Cyclops-style.
 

Dukemon102

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Is it as good as the final case of the first game? That one is my current favorite.
You are about to enter what's probably the most well regarded case of the entire series and the favorite of many people, and probably the reason many consider T&T the best game in the series (For me it's Investigations 2, but we all have opinions). I suggest you get out of any Ace Attorney related web. Because playing that case without spoilers is a magical experience.

I want to revisit my moveset concept for him.

Phoenix Wright, moveset concept #4:

Mechanic: Evidence Collecting - Phoenix must look around for evidence during the fight, but the battle determines how likely he is to find it.

Misc:

Standing animation: In his neutral stance/pose. He will ponder while using his thinking animation when left alone.

Walking animation: Walks like a human as that's what he is.

Dash attack: He will release his case file at the end of it, releasing papers. Similar to a Marvel attack, just after a run.

Jab: First two hits are standard punches, followed by multi-hit use of papers from a case file he opens (see: Robin for similar effect)

Taunts: Confidence pose. Shrugging pose. Looks at his attorney's badge.

Victory Poses: Maya appears. So does confetti.


Smash attacks:

Side-Smash: Unleashes finger point that enlarges when used (see: Wario), When fully charge, he will shout "Objection!".

Up-Smash: Uses that strong head of his that survived being hit by a car, a sword, and a telephone pole and sends enemies upwards. References his (comical) sturdiness from across the series.

Down Smash: Uses a brief case where, fully charged, will open and have some things spill out of it from the front. Has no hitbox behind Phoenix. References Spirit of Justice prologue (loosely).

Aerials:

Neutral-Air: The confidence pose is used here. Functions like a sex kick, except the sweetspot are located within the elbow region.

Up-Air: Uses the spikes of his hair as a hitbox. Has the spike effect when it connects. He uses his shock sprite pose during it.

Forward-Air: Similar to side smash, BUT quicker and less powerful. This is loosely referencing his pointing animation without the objection oomph he does sometimes.

Back-Air: Probably needs a Smash made one to work like other characters in the past. I could see Ryu's working here.

Down-Air: Desk slam without the desk. Enlarges hands a bit to show strength.

Tilts:

Up-Tilt: Just make something up. Can be anything that works on his model.

Side-Tilt: Extends his leg vertically in a upwards trajectory.

Down-Tilt: Tries to examine the ground, doing a "digging" motion. This makes his hands into a hitbox. Similar to a Marvel attack, kind of.

Specials:

Neutral: Court Record - combines itself with the main mechanic of evidence collecting. Similarly to Marvel, you use it in an attempt to find evidence that can be used. The way you find evidence depends on the battle: The more your opponent attacks, the more likely you are to find evidence to use against him. The evidence is found by using neutral special to make Phoenix look at the ground. If he finds nothing, the attack is null. If he finds something, you can either unleash it immediately with another input, or shield to keep the evidence for later. The more evidence you have, the more firepower they will have once you release them. To release all the evidence, simply press B whilst holding at least one piece. You have a limit of three pieces. The pieces can be seen on his character render UI.

Side-Special: Attorney's Badge. Very specific hitbox, but if the opponent connects an attack on Phoenix, then the attorney's badge blinds the opponent and temporarily gives them the disabled effect for a very short time. The opponent has to be within range. Basically functions like a counter but setups counter attacks rather than a defensive/neutral move. Projectiles will trigger the attack but not the opponent if they are out of range.

Up-Special: Mr. Hat. He is summoned by Trucy, and he helps Phoenix back onto stage in arc movement. Think Meta Knight, but more wide than upwards.

Down Special: Magatama. Use it to stick a psyche lock on someone. If it connects, you can make it explode by throwing your evidence at it for increased power. The goal is to combined your locks and evidence for a more devastating blow. If no evidence is thrown at it in time, the psyche lock fails to explode...just like in the games if you fail to beat them. The lifebar appears as a timer for its appearance on the opposing character's render UI.

The goal for Phoenix is to survive long enough to counter-attack the opponent due to mistakes they make like in Ace Attorney. I think this is portrayed excellently in the mechanic and specials.



Final Smash: Courtroom Objection - Similar to Phoenix's Level 3 in Marvel. Phoenix will spawn a desk upon use. If hit by the desk, a cutscene begins. The difference is that Mia will appear, referencing
a certain scene in Trials & Tribulations.
Compared to the one I made 10 pages ago (I changed up the Down B):

Idle pose: Stands confidently. If you don't move then he starts to adjust his suit and Attorney badge or start his thinking pose.

Jab: Brings out paper and shakes it to prove a point.
F-Tilt: HOLD IT!! text bubble appears. It's a decent disjoint.
D-Tilt: Brings out a notepad to take notes.
U-Tilt: Phoenix has an idea and a lightbulb appears in his head that does damage.
Dash Attack: He's checking paper while he walks, ends with a final hit when he finishes.

N-Air: Shakes out his head and body.
F-Air: He holds a paper and tries to show it. Which does damage.
B-Air: He turns around and does an aerial HOLD IT!!
U-Air: He suffers a backpain that makes his hands and legs stretch out and do damage.
D-Air: Phoenix's face becomes terrified. A transparent Hammer barely bigger than him appears and swings through his body. Nothing happens to Phoenix though. The hitbox spikes.

F-Smash: OBJECTION!! The hitbox is huge. Comparable to Corrin's F-Smash. But very laggy.
U-Smash: Slams a desk. The desk slam's impact reaches even above him.
D-Smash: He trips and falls on his butt.

Grab: Maya grabs the opponent instead of Phoenix.
Pummel: Phoenix questions the opponent with papers.
F-Throw: Phoenix shouts a HOLD IT!! while Maya is grabbing the opponent.
B-Throw: Pearl appears and slides from the opposite side while Maya is grabbing the opponent. Both Phoenix and Maya look surprised.
D-Throw: Maya regrets treating the opponent like that and throws him downwards a bit too fast and not too gentile.
U-Throw: Phoenix gets an idea and a combo of paperwork and the lightbulb launches the opponent upwards.

Special Moves:

Neutral Special: Find Evidence. Similar to Pac-Man, Phoenix starts to look for evidence in the ground. The amount of time you let him do it determines the evidence he gets, but each tier needs some time. Which are (From maximum time to mininum time):
- Autopsy Report: He holds the report in his hand and releases a stronger and almost lagless OBJECTION!! that can even be used in the air.
- Coffee: You can throw it to an opponent. If it hits, it does high gradual damage.
- Thinker Statue: Phoenix throws it but it has very little range, yet it kills very early and spikes in the air (Do you know how it feels now? Villager?).
- Luminol: He blows it and makes a little zone that does gradual damage similar to Piranha Plant.
- Cellphone: Makes a one time sound shockwave. It kills at high percentage.
- Trophy: "It's useless". You can throw it like Simon's Axe. It doesn't have that big of a range tho.

Side Special: Finger of Justice. If you have an evidence. You can use it to release a Finger attack. A really really big shining light comes from his finger that does big damage. The evidence gets lost after using it once. If you have nothing. Then he just points and nothing comes out. That does no damage.

Down Special:
Magatama: He presents the Magatama, each character per stock has 3 psyche-locks asigned to them. If you hit them with this attack while you have an evidence, one their psyche-locks break, but it does little damage and knockback. The evidence dissapears if Phoenix hits the move. You can shield this attack, it does moderate shield damage.
When all the psyche-locks of one character break, they enter a shield-broken state. If they survive an attack after that, they regenerate 1 psyche-lock.
But if this attack touches the shield of a character with only one psyche-lock left, it breaks instantly.

Up Special:
Sneeze: He sneezes and that propels him upwards. It also has a hitbox that spikes. Yes, seriously.

Final Smash: Breakdown. A Giant Hammer appears and slams the ground. Opponents hit by the hammer enter a cutscene where they get breakdown'd by Phoenix after he proves they are guilty. It they have more than 100%, then they die instantly.

Taunts:
Up: Phoenix and Maya start to talk while a transparent Step ladder appears behind them.
Side: Phoenix smiles and points at the sky while Maya throws confetti.
Down: Phoenix starts to think and says iconic lines from the series at random, while Maya tries to start looking for evidence.

I like how we can all have different takes on Phoenix's Smash moveset. It shows how big of a potential he has when it comes to a fighting game transition. Yours is more about making a comeback, while mine is about his evidence management and using that to his favor to win.
However, your Phoenix is aggressive and actually punches and kicks opponents. I feel that Phoenix shouldn't directly hurt his opponents, because that's not him, I feel all his damaging moves should come from his courtroom actions, or silly animations that hurt accidentaly. I like the effect of the Magatama, I wonder if something like that can be pulled off in combat. It makes Snake's C4 look like a child play. Wright is the 300000 IQ player here.
 
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