TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[GoodGrief741]

I would have the tagline be
"Phoenix Wright Objects!"

Hmmm, I don't know, feels too obvious, don't you think?

 

[Krankees]

I'll try doing some.
"Phoenix Wright declares Not Guilty!"
"Phoenix Wright calls himself!" (like calling witnesses)
"Phoenix Wright is ready, Your Honor!"

 

[TemporalShrew]

Picture it:

It's exactly the kind of trailer we all expect for Phoenix - he's in a courtroom, and either he's engaged in a nondescript case or there's a Nintendo character on trial. He's about to make the case-winning objection; we get to the splash screen... but something's odd. It reads: Phoenix Wright - Smells Something...? and there's an awkward pause.

BOOM.

Larry crashes into him from out-of-frame, out of control, and we get another splash screen as he flails his arms wildly:

Larry Butz - Butz In!

 

[JustMyself13]

Hmm I don't know how to feel about the Jill information. Phoenix has some circumstantial evidence that would be invalidated if he was decided on much later than we originally thought. The only way it really helps his case is if we assume Sakurai would continue to look to Capcom for a replacement and that Capcom would want to push him now. Plus, it doesn't feel as good when you think that Sakurai is just settling on Phoenix, instead of him being one of his top picks (if that makes any sense)? All in all, I hope that information isn't accurate.

To be honest, I was always under the impression a Resident Evil character would take priority anyway, so knowing that Jill might actually have been planned first is no surprise to me, that is to say that that information is actually true. We don’t actually know if Jill was ever considered, as we only have an unverified Twitter claim to back it up. Even so, I find it unlikely that Sakurai would select Jill from the list in the first place without thinking of what to do for her moveset, and I don’t think Nintendo would have even had her on the list without ensuring that issues with CERO wouldn’t arise. Besides, Phoenix is usually second-best and looked as lesser in his own games already, so I’m already used to this treatment of the character.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You know, I honestly wouldn't take leaker silence to mean that X third-party is in. We had fans assume Isaac, Shadow and Skull Kid's ATs not being shown off early meant they got playable, yet that wasn't the case.

That's true, but I honestly don't believe that RE in Smash would be rejected by CERO, it's incredibly easy to censor. Marvel vs. Capcom did it very well.

Yeah, but everything was made out of sprites in that game. RE Zombies aren't exactly Redead.

We simply just have to know what those supposed "political reasons" are, it doesn't sound like Jill's outfits or the zombies are the--

Wait! Is the STARS seal the reason?

 

[Dukemon102]

Half of these went over my head.

Oh. You didn't get the references to the series....

Spoiler: Jokes aside

Which ones you didn't get? I'm curious.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Wait! Is the STARS seal the reason?

Don't know too much about RE... what did you mean by that? Or was it just a joke that flew over my head?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Don't know too much about RE... what did you mean by that? Or was it just a joke that flew over my head?

It's not a joke, I'm talking about the seal on Jill's outfit maybe for some reason the seal ran into legal troubles. The original version of Metal Wolf Chaos was denied an export simply because the presidential seal in that game was too similar to the real one. So maybe they didn't want to run into any trouble with any official organisations, even though RE remakes have been fine about this.

 

[3BitSaurus]

It's not a joke, I'm talking about the seal on Jill's outfit maybe for some reason the seal ran into legal troubles. The original version of Metal Wolf Chaos was denied an export simply because the presidential seal in that game was too similar to the real one. So maybe they didn't want to run into any trouble with any official organisations, even though RE remakes have been fine about this.

Hmm, if RE releases were fine with it, I don't think it would affect Smash.

In regards to Sakurai "settling" for AA: I don't see it as a bad thing, considering he likes several IPs from the companies in Smash. If he could't get one, I feel like he could go for another as long as he thinks it would make a fun character. Then again, we don't know any of this for sure, so...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Hmm, if RE releases were fine with it, I don't think it would affect Smash.

In regards to Sakurai "settling" for AA: I don't see it as a bad thing, considering he likes several IPs from the companies in Smash. If he could't get one, I feel like he could go for another as long as he thinks it would make a fun character. Then again, we don't know any of this for sure, so...

Well, then I'm all out of ideas. I guess we'll never know what made them pass over RE for Ultimate.

In any case, we've seen that he doesn't necessarily start with the "biggest" shots of a company.

 

[3BitSaurus]

One thing: can someone check if ALL (or most) RE games are CERO Z? Maybe also Mortal Kombat, for comparison?

Last night, we only found MGS3 and MGS5 to be Z. So I'm thinking this could have to do with most games in a series being Z rather than just one. For example, Doomguy would have no problems with that in principle because 1993 Doom was CERO C, so Sakurai could base him on OG Doom.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The highest RE seems to get is Ds.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/games/franchise/348-resident-evil

Torture of any kind is possibly seen as more offensive than gory monsters and ultraviolence, somehow.

 

[3BitSaurus]

The highest RE seems to get is Ds.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/games/franchise/348-resident-evil

Torture of any kind is possibly seen as more offensive than gory monsters and ultraviolence, somehow.

Wait, as in "most games are Z and some are D" or is it the other way around?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Wait, as in "most games are Z and some are D" or is it the other way around?

As in, I haven't seen a single Z at all so far, it ain't rocket science.

So, if the general game rating's not the reason why RE wouldn't be in, it's possibly something that doesn't make any sense.

 

[3BitSaurus]

As in, I haven't seen a single Z at all so far, it ain't rocket science.

So, if the general game rating's not the reason why RE wouldn't be in, it's possibly something that doesn't make any sense.

Oh, I see. Didn't understand your post very well, is all.

Tried checking again for MGS and most games seem to be C or D. I guess maybe we'll just never know if this theory of RE being swept aside is true.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The only thing we have to go on from as it is right now is the possibility of post-base game spirit content being for series not intended to be getting playable characters. Sometimes, series just get passed over for no particular reason, something I hope the fans will understand by the time this DLC cycle ends.

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

It makes me so happy seeing this thread being more active than ever before. I still remember the pre-release days from Smash Ultimate. The last 70 of 86 pages in this thread are all from this year, whereas the first 16 pages were from 2018 and even the years before. At this rate I am sure we will reach 100 pages before TGA, let's just hope he doesn't get deconfirmed by then.

 

[Jovahexeon Joranvexeon]

That's true, but I honestly don't believe that RE in Smash would be rejected by CERO, it's incredibly easy to censor. Marvel vs. Capcom did it very well.

Eh...to be fair, that game was rated T, so there was more leeway,

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Hmm I don't know how to feel about the Jill information. Phoenix has some circumstantial evidence that would be invalidated if he was decided on much later than we originally thought. The only way it really helps his case is if we assume Sakurai would continue to look to Capcom for a replacement and that Capcom would want to push him now. Plus, it doesn't feel as good when you think that Sakurai is just settling on Phoenix, instead of him being one of his top picks (if that makes any sense)? All in all, I hope that information isn't accurate.

we'll probably never know, as unlike that one time Sakurai mentioned Heihachi, I doubt he'll mention Jill not making it in for whatever these political issues were if this info turns out to be real.

 

[Leotsune]

Regadless of what happens in the future, I'm just glad this little exposure and discussion Phoenix has gotten, has made a couple of people give Ace Attorney a try, and that makes me very happy.

 

[An Archie]

This has been mentioned a few times before in this thread, but what songs would you like to come with Phoenix if he is added, but you think are unlikely to be picked?
I personally think that literally anything from AAI2 or the great Ace Attorney would be great (those games have such good soundtracks), but I'd also like stuff like Laytons theme from AA vs PL Kay Faraday's theme.

 

[MissingGlitch]

It’s actually pretty shocking how different speculation is depending on the website. The Geno thread is banking on Nightmare from Soul Caliber and Twitter thinks it’s either going to be Sora or Wright,

What does the general newcomer speculation thread think?

 

[Deleted member]

It’s actually pretty shocking how different speculation is depending on the website. The Geno thread is banking on Nightmare from Soul Caliber and Twitter thinks it’s either going to be Sora or Wright,

What does the general newcomer speculation thread think?

I really don’t know.

There are a lot of possibilities in my mind right now.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

If they added Laytons theme with Phoenix...well, I think that'd be a pretty cruel way to disconfirm the guy.

It’s actually pretty shocking how different speculation is depending on the website. The Geno thread is banking on Nightmare from Soul Caliber and Twitter thinks it’s either going to be Sora or Wright,

Nightmare? Why's that? I find the idea of getting a Soulcalibur rep over Tekken to be all sorts of bizarre, I guess it doesn't have the complications of the limb system in that?

 

[Flyboy]

This has been mentioned a few times before in this thread, but what songs would you like to come with Phoenix if he is added, but you think are unlikely to be picked?
I personally think that literally anything from AAI2 or the great Ace Attorney would be great (those games have such good soundtracks), but I'd also like stuff like Laytons theme from AA vs PL Kay Faraday's theme.

The Man Who Masterminded The Game, The Enemy Who Surpasses The Law, The Masked Magician, and The Sword of Labyrinthia are my big unlikely wants, but anything from the AAI games would be fantastic. I'm also hoping we get Courtroom Revolutionnaire 2006.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Nightmare? Why's that? I find the idea of getting a Soulcalibur rep over Tekken to be all sorts of bizarre, I guess it doesn't have the complications of the limb system in that?

Mainly because of a well respected guy there who makes theories based off insider knowledge. Pretty cool guy. But I think a lot people tend to forget he is just making theories and they treat it as fact. I don’t expect Nightmare myself, but it’s pretty interesting and well explained why he thinks what he thinks.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Oh. You didn't get the references to the series....
View attachment 249605

Spoiler: Jokes aside

Which ones you didn't get? I'm curious.

3, 4 and 5.

Though looking at 3 I think I understood that one. I think it's trials and tribulations?

 

[Dukemon102]

3, 4 and 5.

Though looking at 3 I think I understood that one. I think it's trials and tribulations?

Spoiler: Plot of AA games

Third fight is Peach as Dahlia. Zelda is Maya. But if Maya is in Phoenix's moveset. It could also be Iris.

Fourth fight is Kristoph.
Apollo and Phoenix took him down together.
Pink Villager represents Vera Misham.

Fifth fight is the Phantom, also known as Detective Fullbright. Who was incredibly difficult to take down. And Athena was the suspect and the key to win that case.

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

This is the songs that plays when all your Capcom friends are deconfirmed for FP5 (not all of them, but some on the most likely ones), and you're the only one standing:

 

[Krankees]

Mainly because of a well respected guy there who makes theories based off insider knowledge. Pretty cool guy. But I think a lot people tend to forget he is just making theories and they treat it as fact. I don’t expect Nightmare myself, but it’s pretty interesting and well explained why he thinks what he thinks.

I though Nightmare was deconfirmed already because he's from bandai namco. (Supposedly)

 

[MissingGlitch]

I though Nightmare was deconfirmed already because he's from bandai namco. (Supposedly)

Well, only Verge claims is not a Bandai Namco rep. Which his accuracy is spotty. But a few people have said "trust him on this one" so who even knows at this point.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Mainly because of a well respected guy there who makes theories based off insider knowledge. Pretty cool guy. But I think a lot people tend to forget he is just making theories and they treat it as fact. I don’t expect Nightmare myself, but it’s pretty interesting and well explained why he thinks what he thinks.

I wouldn't mind Nightmare, I feel like he would add something interesting to the roster....even if personally I'm not a big Soul Calibur fan.

That said with talk of characters like Nightmare or Heihachi I'm getting a little tired of fighting game reps being added to Smash. It always feels like they have the most "straightforward" transition to Smash in terms of moveset.

 

[XorahnGaia]

Well, only Verge claims is not a Bandai Namco rep. Which his accuracy is spotty. But a few people have said "trust him on this one" so who even knows at this point.

I frankly don't see how Vergeben's accuracy is any spottier than Sabi. Atleast Vergeben didn't support a random 4chan leak for the sake of trolling

 

[Krankees]

Well, only Verge claims is not a Bandai Namco rep. Which his accuracy is spotty. But a few people have said "trust him on this one" so who even knows at this point.

Even then, I feel like Nightmare before someone like Lloyd or Heihachi seems unlikely to me.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Even then, I feel like Nightmare before someone like Lloyd or Heihachi seems unlikely to me.

Heihachi I agree, Lloyd not neccesarily, as I believe SC is a bigger success than Tales of. It's also kinda neat how it's another fighting series that made the whole guest/crossover aspect pretty common since its second entry, it'd be kinda neat for Link to return the favour in a way, much as I don't really care for the franchise myself.

It always feels like they have the most "straightforward" transition to Smash in terms of moveset.

I do agree with this part, but honestly, after Ryu got in, I kinda stopped caring. IMO, SF is among the most boring fighters out there, in pacing, mechanics, lore, etc. I simply don't care for it, so I wouldn't mind seeing more reps of the genre that I frankly find more enticing (Sol in particular, but I did end up finding Terrys addition neat in the end, and I wouldn't mind Heihachi or Nightmare, even Scorpion or Subzero if they find out how to tone them down or make Japan care given how MK almost doesn't exist there).
Disclaimer: I'm aware of SF historic importance to the industry and why they'd get him over anyone else from fighting games in Smash, doesn't really change how dull I found his addition, or how much I hate how he plays.

Mainly because of a well respected guy there who makes theories based off insider knowledge. Pretty cool guy. But I think a lot people tend to forget he is just making theories and they treat it as fact. I don’t expect Nightmare myself, but it’s pretty interesting and well explained why he thinks what he thinks.

I think I've seen that post in particular over the Sol thread, I do agree it's important to recognize just as speculation and not some sort of potential leak, but I'm willing to believe verge on no Namco for the time being.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I though Nightmare was deconfirmed already because he's from bandai namco. (Supposedly)

Yeah, but Fatman's a tool who makes up theories with zero regard for the actual information available.

Picture this: the guy isn't even an insider, he just spends a lot of time in Sabi (herself an unreliable insider)'s circle, and the guy thinks he knows better than the dude who leaked almost everything on the roster.

 

[Caladuz]

I find the idea of getting a Soulcalibur rep over Tekken to be all sorts of bizarre,

I know he isn't a main character but wouldn't it be interesting to add Yoshimitsu since he could rep both games?

 

[ThunderSageNun]

I know he isn't a main character but wouldn't it be interesting to add Yoshimitsu since he could rep both games?

You could say Heihachi kinda does that as well thanks to SC2 haha, but it's a fair enough logic. I'm not really big on either Tekken or SC to know who are their likeliest candidates outside of the Mishimas and Nightmare.

 

[Seanapotamus]

I though Nightmare was deconfirmed already because he's from bandai namco. (Supposedly)

Nightmare is out of the running for this spot, since he's a Bandai-Namco character. Thing is, Fatman makes baseless theories from what he heard on Sabi's private discord and the Geno thread buys into it. Fatman doesn't believe in Vergeben's statement on Bandai-Namco being deconfirmed, so that's why the Geno thread believes Nightmare could be next. And it doesn't help that Sabi has been acting weird lately. Vergeben on the other hand leaked almost every newcomer (minus Inklings, King K. Rool, Dark Samus, and Chrom since he didn't talk about them iirc), said Snake and Ice Climbers would return along with everyone who didn't make it to Smash 4, and also was one of the first people to say Hero (he said Erdrick) was in, as well as leaking Terry two days before his reveal. Yes, Vergeben has been wrong before, but for Smash Ultimate in particular he has been almost entirely spot on, even if he isn't always the first person to leak characters.

What does the general newcomer speculation thread think?

In general, there hasn't been a consensus on who's next besides on who we know isn't going to be next. We are guessing the next fighter could be either Phoenix Wright, Sora, Sol Badguy, Sakura Shinguji (from Sakura Wars), Reimu, a Nintendo character, or even someone else.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

In general, there hasn't been a consensus on who's next besides on who we know isn't going to be next. We are guessing the next fighter could be either Phoenix Wright, Sora, Sol Badguy, Sakura Shinguji (from Sakura Wars), Reimu, a Nintendo character, or even someone else.

I get the gist for Phoenix and Sora, but what's the logic behind the rest?
Is Sakura just because there's a new SW game?
Reimu because of that music leak from a while ago?
Sol because...I guess the new GG?
And Nintendo I imagine mostly because people are feeling we're outta 3rd parties at this point, but I don't buy it myself.