TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[Krankees]

I find it weird that after finding the Phoenix Wright leak was deconfirmed, Sabi decided not to investigate whether Phoenix would be FP5. After he deconfirmed Lloyd, he just decided to stop deconfirming before TGA. It's not like he thought Phoenix was deconfirmed already because the way he worded his tweet says otherwise. Plus he retweeted PushDustin's recent tweet about Phoenix which tells that he knows Phoenix isn't deconfirmed.

 

[Seanapotamus]

We need THIS song in Smash.

There's plenty of good music choices for Ace Attorney that can work in Smash. Pursuit, Cornered, Steel Samurai, etc. I always look forward to remixes of songs from new series (Dragon Quest was an exception because the composer is a ****)

Also RIP Brawlbrstms

 

[Desert Croc]

Have you guys seen this yet? Some pretty good theories are presented (no pun intended) as to why Phoenix could possibly be the next character.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I find it weird that after finding the Phoenix Wright leak was deconfirmed, Sabi decided not to investigate whether Phoenix would be FP5. After he deconfirmed Lloyd, he just decided to stop deconfirming before TGA. It's not like he thought Phoenix was deconfirmed already because the way he worded his tweet says otherwise. Plus he retweeted PushDustin's recent tweet about Phoenix which tells that he knows Phoenix isn't deconfirmed.

If you'll allow me to don a tinfoil hat for a moment... maybe Sabi's retweet was a subtle hint at Wright actually being confirmed?

Crazy, I know, but we've got 10 days until the Game Awards. Might as well amuse ourselves any way we can.

 

[JustMyself13]

Have you guys seen this yet? Some pretty good theories are presented (no pun intended) as to why Phoenix could possibly be the next character.

You know, I’m surprised that this wasn’t brought up in the video, but if we are to take PapaGeno’s words as truth, it makes sense that Takumi would say that. At that point in time, the Capcom rep wouldn’t have been Phoenix, it would’ve been Jill.

 

[Krankees]

Have you guys seen this yet? Some pretty good theories are presented (no pun intended) as to why Phoenix could possibly be the next character.

It's a good video, but isn't he wrong about his base roster theory? The only one I think fits that is Terry.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Honestly, it's all hypothetical right now and it's likely Sakurai would never say it out loud, but... hoo boy, if that thing with Jill was indeed true (I think the info came from IGC originally), some people would flip.

And I don't mean it in a good way.

These will be the longest 10 days of my life of speculation. Actually no, the wait for E3 without knowing if the Microsoft rep was Banjo or Steve was worse, but this is a good second.

 

[Dukemon102]

I can't believe NicoOlvia003 was disconfirmed, the nerve of the guy

Robin's past became even worse. Verge y u do tis?

Also, I searched what sabi said, and I thought they just claimed a leak going on about them saying fighter 5 is Arthur was false? Not flat out disconfirming him?

This is the tweet in question.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I guess it can be interpreted in multiple ways. But if the character is indeed Arthur. I don't think Sabi would have said that.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don't know how often Nintendo does these spirit events, but was the RE event the first third-party one? If so, then I have really high hopes for Capcom to at least be FP5.

Tetris and Daemon X Machina came first.

 

[Leotsune]

but I fear for the MEI2 tracks with the game being unlocalized and AA probably not getting 50 tracks like Terry did.

Y'know, Lucas is literally there, not being localized isn't a issue at all.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I find it weird that after finding the Phoenix Wright leak was deconfirmed, Sabi decided not to investigate whether Phoenix would be FP5. After he deconfirmed Lloyd, he just decided to stop deconfirming before TGA. It's not like he thought Phoenix was deconfirmed already because the way he worded his tweet says otherwise. Plus he retweeted PushDustin's recent tweet about Phoenix which tells that he knows Phoenix isn't deconfirmed.

First of all, Sabi is a girl, and second of all I got the impression that Sabi was simply getting tired of deconfirming every third-party under the sun, as we're going into the VGAs anyway.

Spoiler

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The most she did is deconfirming a fake leak for Phoenix so far, that's it. I honestly wouldn't read that as a hint. Hence the toilet humor joke post she did recently.

 

[Krankees]

First of all, Sabi is a girl, and second of all I got the impression that Sabi was simply getting tired of deconfirming every third-party under the sun, as we're going into the VGAs anyway.

Spoiler

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The most she did is deconfirming a fake leak for Phoenix so far, that's it. I honestly wouldn't read that as a hint. Hence the toilet humor joke post she did recently.

Sorry only heard of Sabi recently, so I didn't she was a girl.

 

[SNEKeater]

When a character has the spotlight is a beautiful and hype moment, but if Phoenix isn't FP5 that wouldn't be the end of the world. If he isn't the next character he always can be a post-pass DLC. At least he doesn't have Resident Evil as competition, "only" Dante and maybe Amaterasu.

If a "deconfirmed" character gets announced as FP5. Vergeben and/or Sabi will be cross-examined and breakdown'd by the whole Smash community.

That's true. Specially for Sabi I think, she is acting a bit strange and not very professional as she claims sometimes these last months, I think.
I don't think Verge will be wrong. He didn't deconfirmed 1 or 2 characters, he deconfirmed a ton of fighters. I guess that if he's really doing that is because he and his main source are completely sure about that.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Honestly, it's all hypothetical right now and it's likely Sakurai would never say it out loud, but... hoo boy, if that thing with Jill was indeed true (I think the info came from IGC originally), some people would flip.

Any source on this or was it some private convo?
I do think that if Capcom isn't fighter 5 and things keep getting outta control, Verge will eventually give them the no before

Y'know, Lucas is literally there, not being localized isn't a issue at all.

Yes, but Mother is a 3 entry franchise, and given Mother 3 was Lucas game, featuring no music at all from it would be a little bizarre. That Genealogy of the Holy War remix we got does prove your point however.
That said, AA has a lot more games to cover, and with MEI2 being a spinoff at that, I could see them passing up on it for the sake of giving enough coverage to AA1-6.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Any source on this or was it some private convo?
I do think that if Capcom isn't fighter 5 and things keep getting outta control, Verge will eventually give them the no before

I think it was on Resetera. I say this because I remember Papagenos talking about this all the way back in the base game. I'm on mobile, but I'll try googling it.

 

[TheYungLink]

For those of you citing Lucas, we haven't had any Mother 3 remixes since Brawl. At most, and I'm being generous, if we're getting any Gyakuten Kenji 2 music, it will be rips.

Imagine not including Pursuit ~ Wanting to Find the Truth regardless of whether the game is localized or not, though. Wouldn't put it past the Smash team to put that kick ass song in the game anyway.

 

[Hinata]

For those of you citing Lucas, we haven't had any Mother 3 remixes since Brawl. At most, and I'm being generous, if we're getting any Gyakuten Kenji 2 music, it will be rips.

Imagine not including Pursuit ~ Wanting to Find the Truth regardless of whether the game is localized or not, though. Wouldn't put it past the Smash team to put that kick ass song in the game anyway.

Wanting to Find the Truth is, bar none, the best cornered theme AA has ever had.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Wanting to Find the Truth is, bar none, the best cornered theme AA has ever had.

Even Jonny Atma just had to do that one.

Honestly, it's all hypothetical right now and it's likely Sakurai would never say it out loud, but... hoo boy, if that thing with Jill was indeed true (I think the info came from IGC originally), some people would flip.

And I don't mean it in a good way.

These will be the longest 10 days of my life of speculation. Actually no, the wait for E3 without knowing if the Microsoft rep was Banjo or Steve was worse, but this is a good second.

I think it was on Resetera. I say this because I remember Papagenos talking about this all the way back in the base game. I'm on mobile, but I'll try googling it.

Please do, this is potentially going to put more things into perspective.

 

[Desert Croc]

Really makes me wish Edgeworth could make it in as an alt if there won’t be any echoes, but I feel like they would go for Apollo instead.

 

[Dukemon102]

Really makes me wish Edgeworth could make it in as an alt if there won’t be any echoes, but I feel like they would go for Apollo instead.

Edgeworth fits more like a Luigified semi-clone than an echo. He's not as silly as Phoenix and it could be more agressively focused because he's a prosecutor.
Apollo can be a straight echo. Just replace Maya with Trucy or Athena, and if the moveset uses the Magatama. Switch it for the Bracelet. That could be the main difference between the two.

 

[Desert Croc]

Edgeworth fits more like a Luigified semi-clone than an echo. He's not as silly as Phoenix and it could be more agressively focused because he's a prosecutor.
Apollo can be a straight echo. Just replace Maya with Trucy or Athena, and if the moveset uses the Magatama. Switch it for the Bracelet. That could be the main difference between the two.

That’s why I think they would be more likely to choose Apollo if they were to give Phoenix an alt character, as he is a defense attorney/protagonist and is much more similar to Edgeworth than Phoinix in terms of appearance and animations. I personally prefer Edgeworth myself but yeah, he just wouldn’t work as a full clone.

 

[Krankees]

So if Phoenix were to get in, how do you guys think they would fit him into the mural.

 

[3BitSaurus]

FINALLY FOUND IT HOLY ****! No idea why it took this long - looks like it was scrubbed from almost every corner of the internet - barely got to 3 pages in all of my searches.

https://imgur.com/gKiOcHt

It's just the image rather than the original post. But here it is. Note the upload date of the image: February 6. No clear signs of being doctored unless it was the Inspector, but I kinda doubt it since Papa and Sabi seem to have referenced this in the past.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

FINALLY FOUND IT HOLY ****! No idea why it took this long - looks like it was scrubbed from almost every corner of the internet - barely got to 3 pages in all of my searches.

https://imgur.com/gKiOcHt

It's just the image rather than the original post. But here it is. Note the upload date of the image: February 6. No clear signs of being doctored unless it was the Inspector, but I kinda doubt it since Papa and Sabi seem to have referenced this in the past.

much appreciated! I'm curious what political issues would cause trouble with Jill now though, I don't recall anything offensive or controversial about the character?

 

[Flyboy]

FINALLY FOUND IT HOLY ****! No idea why it took this long - looks like it was scrubbed from almost every corner of the internet - barely got to 3 pages in all of my searches.

https://imgur.com/gKiOcHt

It's just the image rather than the original post. But here it is. Note the upload date of the image: February 6. No clear signs of being doctored unless it was the Inspector, but I kinda doubt it since Papa and Sabi seem to have referenced this in the past.

Interesting phrasing. "Political reasons". Think that lines up with the idea that CERO stepped in and was against a Z-Rated character being in Smash? Hmm.

 

[3BitSaurus]

much appreciated! I'm curious what political issues would cause trouble with Jill now though, I don't recall anything offensive or controversial about the character?

Interesting phrasing. "Political reasons". Think that lines up with the idea that CERO stepped in and was against a Z-Rated character being in Smash? Hmm.

Take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt - I'm just speculating - but if not CERO, then "political reasons" could refer to internal Nintendo or Capcom reasons rather than, well... actual politics. Remember, CERO seems more against panty shots than guns, so at first glance, I'd see no reason for them to step in.

EDIT: Though some others have said that a few of the RE monsters could have made CERO shake their heads, but again, this is all speculation.

 

[Flyboy]

Take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt - I'm just speculating - but if not CERO, then "political reasons" could refer to internal Nintendo or Capcom reasons rather than, well... actual politics. Remember, CERO seems more against panty shots than guns, so at first glance, I'd see no reason for them to step in.

You're right, but it could be less about the guns themselves and more about the fact that Resident Evil is a Z-Rated series. It'd really put a damper on a Resident Evil stage if you couldn't have the zombies in the background. Or maybe Sakurai just couldn't figure out how to really get her to work appropriately. Super interesting theory and info.

 

[3BitSaurus]

You're right, but it could be less about the guns themselves and more about the fact that Resident Evil is a Z-Rated series. It'd really put a damper on a Resident Evil stage if you couldn't have the zombies in the background. Or maybe Sakurai just couldn't figure out how to really get her to work appropriately. Super interesting theory and info.

Hmm, yes, looking at it better, do we have any other Z-rated games in Smash? I know MGS, Bayonetta and P5 are M-rated in the west, but are they Z-rated in Japan? True, a RE stage without zombies and BOWs wouldn't really be a RE stage, would it?

I don't think it has to do with moveset potential unless Sakurai himself was dissatisfied - remember, the thing with Heihachi for example, it's not that he CAN'T translate to Smash, it's just that Sakurai wasn't satisfied with whatever he could come up with at the time and thus deemed it "too difficult" back then. He made similar arguments for Villager and Ridley and eventually made them anyway. So I'm not sure that would be too big of an issue.

Regardless, this could be an interesting development. and if the post was made (or at least archived) in February... then it makes sense that this was related to DLC planning, possibly CP5. So at this point we're either closer to getting Phoenix now or Dante's chances will ******* skyrocket in season 2.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

I always thought the only thing that could pass up as problematic for RE to get in post Joker was how gory the zombies could be for a stage. I'd think that could easily be done by avoiding blood and super deep wounds, but eh, I guess that might have caused issues in the end.

Hmm, yes, looking at it better, do we have any other Z-rated games in Smash? I know MGS, Bayonetta and P5 are M-rated in the west, but are they Z-rated in Japan?

Very quick wiki rocking, but P5 and Bayonetta aren't, MGS5 at least is, I think the rest of the series isn't (then again, Snake debuted in Brawl, not Ultimate).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, it does add credence to the zombies being too gory to get in here. At least with Doom's monsters, you have the excuse of easily-edited, or relatively safer sprites. There really aren't much noteworthy RE games with usable sprites, and one was outright cancelled.

Or, Sak simply wasn't able to figure out how to differ Jill's playstyle enough from to be too samey for now, and is setting her aside for now.

Hmm, yes, looking at it better, do we have any other Z-rated games in Smash? I know MGS, Bayonetta and P5 are M-rated in the west, but are they Z-rated in Japan? True, a RE stage without zombies and BOWs wouldn't really be a RE stage, would it?

I don't think it has to do with moveset potential unless Sakurai himself was dissatisfied - remember, the thing with Heihachi for example, it's not that he CAN'T translate to Smash, it's just that Sakurai wasn't satisfied with whatever he could come up with at the time and thus deemed it "too difficult" back then. He made similar arguments for Villager and Ridley and eventually made them anyway. So I'm not sure that would be too big of an issue.

Regardless, this could be an interesting development. and if the post was made (or at least archived) in February... then it makes sense that this was related to DLC planning, possibly CP5. So at this point we're either closer to getting Phoenix now or Dante's chances will ******* skyrocket in season 2.

Heihachi's case is different, since it would mean translating 3-D fighter moves into 2 and a half D. It's like making diamonds out of coal.

I guess it had to have been a choice between shrinking Ridley and making him work, or adapting Heihachi's gameplay. He probably would have gone for the latter if Ishizuka hadn't died shortly after voicing Incineroar, but there is no way to tell.

 

[Dukemon102]

Hmm, yes, looking at it better, do we have any other Z-rated games in Smash? I know MGS, Bayonetta and P5 are M-rated in the west, but are they Z-rated in Japan? True, a RE stage without zombies and BOWs wouldn't really be a RE stage, would it?

I don't think it has to do with moveset potential unless Sakurai himself was dissatisfied - remember, the thing with Heihachi for example, it's not that he CAN'T translate to Smash, it's just that Sakurai wasn't satisfied with whatever he could come up with at the time and thus deemed it "too difficult" back then. He made similar arguments for Villager and Ridley and eventually made them anyway. So I'm not sure that would be too big of an issue.

Regardless, this could be an interesting development. and if the post was made (or at least archived) in February... then it makes sense that this was related to DLC planning, possibly CP5. So at this point we're either closer to getting Phoenix now or Dante's chances will ******* skyrocket in season 2.

I said a few pages back (HOLY COW, WE WENT FROM 2900s TO 3300s IN A FEW DAYS) that I thought a RE character was too similar to Snake moveset-wise. Maybe Sakurai scrapped that and decided to go for a more unique character instead.
If it is rating issues, it's probably some Resident Evil element that they couldn't remove to keep the rating.
CERO hates uncovered boobs, legs and gore. Not really guns. Because Bayo and Joker exist. As long as you don't go with Jill's RE3 outift there wouldn't be problems.
Palutena, ZSS, King K. Rool, Dedede and others didn't trigger CERO's alarm so....

 

[3BitSaurus]

Remember, all of this is pure speculation, so let's not make any fanrules out of this. I know people are being chill here, but I thought I'd say it just in case.

And again, if anyone had issue with the zombies, it would have been CERO, not Sakurai. Something interesting though: P5 is apparently rated CERO C and Bayonetta, CERO D. So the only Z content we have in Smash comes from MGS3 specifically (couldn't find any of the other MGS games on that category).

I think this could potentially have some merit to it. Interestingly, DMC4 seems to be Z-Rated, so I'm not sure what this would mean for Dante, as well.

Shouldn't have to say this again, but I will: take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

Geez, this just feels like a case. An Ace Attorney case. Turnabout Smash?

 

[3BitSaurus]

Palutena, ZSS, King K. Rool, Dedede and others didn't trigger CERO's alarm so....

Bro, I would have asked serious questions if CERO didn't consider K. Rool and Dedede "A-rating friendly".

In more ways than one.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Remember, all of this is pure speculation, so let's not make any fanrules out of this. I know people are being chill here, but I thought I'd say it just in case.

And again, if anyone had issue with the zombies, it would have been CERO, not Sakurai. Something interesting though: P5 is apparently rated CERO C and Bayonetta, CERO D. So the only Z content we have in Smash comes from MGS3 specifically (couldn't find any of the other MGS games on that category).

I think this could potentially have some merit to it. Interestingly, DMC4 seems to be Z-Rated, so I'm not sure what this would mean for Dante, as well.

Shouldn't have to say this again, but I will: take it with a grain of salt.

No need for a second Dukefire lad, we just have no idea what "political reasons" would mean otherwise. Besides, RE is seen as written off due to post-game spirits regardless.

Also, didn't IGC have insider info about Microsoft that isn't coming true for a good while?

Bro, I would have asked serious questions if CERO didn't consider K. Rool and Dedede "A-rating friendly".

In more ways than one.

Meanwhile there's uh, Krystal's everything.

 

[GoodGrief741]

FINALLY FOUND IT HOLY ****! No idea why it took this long - looks like it was scrubbed from almost every corner of the internet - barely got to 3 pages in all of my searches.

https://imgur.com/gKiOcHt

It's just the image rather than the original post. But here it is. Note the upload date of the image: February 6. No clear signs of being doctored unless it was the Inspector, but I kinda doubt it since Papa and Sabi seem to have referenced this in the past.

I don't see how this relates to our situation?

 

[Flyboy]

Palutena actually did have a bit of trouble in the Sm4sh days. CERO even made Sakurai retool the model via patch after the game was already released, closing her thigh slit slightly. He even mentioned how annoying they were in an interview, which is clearly still the case as he straight up called them out in the Terry presentation.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Palutena actually did have a bit of trouble in the Sm4sh days. CERO even made Sakurai retool the model via patch after the game was already released, closing her thigh slit slightly. He even mentioned how annoying they were in an interview, which is clearly still the case as he straight up called them out in the Terry presentation.

I love how his FS for just had him go nuts in regards to that.

 

[3BitSaurus]

No need for a second Dukefire lad, we just have no idea what "internal politics" would mean otherwise.

Also, didn't IGC have insider info that isn't coming true for a good while?

IGC seems to be 50-50, AFAIK. She was banking on Banjo before Shinobi, but also said Rare Replay would come to the Switch soon after, If I'm not mistaken. She was also one of the people who called Ori, I think.

Meanwhile there's uh, Krystal's everything.

...No comment.

I don't see how this relates to our situation?

This all started with a post a few pages ago with a video theorizing that CP5 is Capcom and talking about Jill's negotiations supposedly "falling through" as evidence, with another Capcom rep potentially taking her place (you know where this is going). I tried to find IGC's post to shed some light on the matter. That... about sums it up.

Nothing conclusive, of course, but we're supposed to speculate, so...

 

[culumon]

Palutena, ZSS, King K. Rool, Dedede and others didn't trigger CERO's alarm so....

...since when was Dedede packing heat?