TAKE THAT! Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney smashes the prosecution!

[ThunderSageNun]

It's hard to make good comparison between 3rd parties that don't even belong to the same dev/publisher at least, but given they all share the same genre (well, Layton debatably, but it's just as wordy, story driven and ridiculous in its twists), I think it's reasonable to throw all these 3 franchises on the same pit, and I simply don't see how DR outdoes either AA or Layton. Both have stronger ties to Nintendo with every mainline entry being available on its systems, Layton is particularly big in Europe (I believe it might even outsell AA and DR combined? not too sure on this), Ace Attorney is the most historic of the bunch and I'd imagine influenced VN more, and while they're all niche, I think it's safe to say Objection is probably the most iconic thing to come out of any of these franchises combined. At most, I'll give chunsoft that it hasn't been disconfirmed by our leakers so far, but unlike Capcom, I don't think that means much when they where never speculated around much.

We still have a few indie/doujin companies/creators, Marvelous (probably), Natsume and, bizarrely enough, Interplay. Otherwise, I think we may actually get a Nintendo character instead.

As in...Baldurs Gate interplay? Or did wikipedia fail me? I don't really know the legal complications regarding Harvest Moon to know who owns it, but I guess bust a move/bubble bobble ain't off the table. That said, you'll never convince me Senran Kagura for a Marvelous rep after Mais treatment.

 

[Dukemon102]

It's hard to make good comparison between 3rd parties that don't even belong to the same dev/publisher at least, but given they all share the same genre (well, Layton debatably, but it's just as wordy, story driven and ridiculous in its twists), I think it's reasonable to throw all these 3 franchises on the same pit, and I simply don't see how DR outdoes either AA or Layton. Both have stronger ties to Nintendo with every mainline entry being available on its systems, Layton is particularly big in Europe (I believe it might even outsell AA and DR combined? not too sure on this), Ace Attorney is the most historic of the bunch and I'd imagine influenced VN more, and while they're all niche, I think it's safe to say Objection is probably the most iconic thing to come out of any of these franchises combined. At most, I'll give chunsoft that it hasn't been disconfirmed by our leakers so far, but unlike Capcom, I don't think that means much when they where never speculated around much.

Layton is indeed more popular in Europe. Mostly thanks to the games always coming fully translated and dubbed to all languages. While Capcom took the lazy route after Apollo Justice. And Danganropa is mostly niche all over the world.
I would say Layton is more "played" in Europe.
But overall. Worldwide the OBJECTION!! catchphrase is widely recognized. Ace Attorney is the worldwide known king of visual novel franchises to me (King individual game is Ghost Trick but that's another story).

 

[Arctiq]

Required theme for Fighter 5 speculation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnDKcJgQbCw&t=54s

I'd argue this is a better theme:
https://youtu.be/0muwEn_FQYE

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Overall, isn't Sakurai known specifically for going after characters that aren't speculated much?

I'd argue this is a better theme:
https://youtu.be/0muwEn_FQYE

I forgot to mention, Grasshopper hasn't been taken out of FP5 yet, unless one takes Suda's comment about Travis not being worthy enough for Smash yet as being out of Ultimate.

On that note, much more fitting tense music:

Spoiler

As in...Baldurs Gate interplay? Or did wikipedia fail me? I don't really know the legal complications regarding Harvest Moon to know who owns it, but I guess bust a move/bubble bobble ain't off the table. That said, you'll never convince me Senran Kagura for a Marvelous rep after Mais treatment.

Talking about that worm guy that says groovy. I know his chances are like 1%, but still better than Bubsy's from Accolade.

Anyway, Marvelous owns the original series (labelled Story of Seasons, translated version of the original series name), while Natsume currently releases generic farming sims with the Harvest Moon named tacked on. Believe it or not, the Asuka thread has thought of several solutions.

 

[KatKit]

My sis is obsessed with Danganronpa but I haven't played it. Even though it's super unlikely, they took the time to deconfirm Nihon Falcom for FP5, so I wouldn't completely count it out yet.

Anyway, the Ace Attorney Trilogy is on sale on the Switch. It's $20 right now, for any lurkers here who are interested in the series but never played it.

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

Even though Danganronpa is a great franchise, Phoenix Wright is much more likely for Smash - not only is Ace Attorney probably more well known, but Phoenix Wright has a long history with Nintendo and his style would fit Smash much better imo. I wouldn't be too concerned, I'm sure Phoenix would be the preferred choice between those two. (Personally I would also love to see a Zero Escape character like Akane, however this is even unlikelier, unfortunately).

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Overall, isn't Sakurai known specifically for going after characters that aren't speculated much?

It's not so much on how Sakurai choses but rather that I don't think Chunsoft surviving the disconfirmation from leakers means as much as Capcom so far, given the latter has been a pretty common guess for these people to not shut them down after Namco was, whereas saying the next character isn't from Chun is as surprising as no Falcom or NIS, not really that big of a shock to the average Smash speculator. That asides, Sakurai has picked common choices, Hero and Banjo for this DLC batch in particular, so I don't think that's a given.

I forgot to mention, Grasshopper hasn't been taken out of FP5 yet, unless one takes Suda's comment about Travis not being worthy enough for Smash yet as being out of Ultimate.

Talking about that worm guy that says groovy. I know his chances are like 1%, but still better than Bubsy's from Accolade.

Anyway, Marvelous owns the original series (labelled Story of Seasons, translated version of the original series name), while Natsume currently releases generic farming sims with the Harvest Moon named tacked on. Believe it or not, the Asuka thread has thought of several solutions.

Travis is someone I keep in mind from time to time, but the series being such a sales bomb does make me wonder how likely he is given the most he has going for is a Wii cult classic (and this is exclusively in the west from what I understand, JP doesn't give 2 damns for the franchise, and while that's no dealbreaker, it certainly doesn't help).
I never thought about Earthworm Jim actually, I do wonder if the...creator controversial views affect his chances to ever return at all, regardless of Smash. It's probably a no given we've at least seen the DQ composer still kicking tunes and not affecting Heros inclusions in Smash (well, outside of using the MIDI version of the series music), but eh, worth a thought I guess.
I don't think toning down a SK feels feasible when the whole point of that series is fanservice, I know Bayonetta is in, but the whole premise of the game isn't just stripping down Bayonetta out of her hairsuit (I confess I've never played the franchise as I simply have no interest, but the mix of gameplay and CGs I've seen makes me feel the focus on sexuality is a whole lot worse than anything Bayonetta throws at you EDIT: I'll correct that this is debatable given some of the torture tools used in the games that flew over my head while writing this). If Sakurai cares about portraying these guests characters as accurate as possible, I don't see how they wouldn't have the girl assets jiggling all over the place as they lose most of their clothes in battle, or forego the ridiculous transformation animations for their stage intro or something, and that's not going to fly by cero/ESRB/whatever other rating board.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I will say this: people have vitriolic hatred at worst, apathy at best for Konami these days, yet we still got their characters in Ultimate.

Between that and Sak not caring about the console war, the only concern is whether he can get some of the characters that people care about and would like to see.

Also, you should post your constructive argument against Asuka in her support thread instead, it'd be more appropriate.

In any case, you never know what can happen. People thought wouldn't get in 4 due to her being too small and too niche a series, but they still went for her anyway.

We're just going in circles here until two Thursdays from now, so can't we just go back to talking about ladders or something? It's basically a court case at this stage, and everyone's missing the evidence.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

The only thing I'd say (as I agree we're going in circles on something that doesn't mean much for Phoenix), is that while Bayonetta is by no means an icon of the medium, the original did sell a million on PS360 (which I think is considered a good feat for a new IP), and with Nintendo funding the sequel, I wouldn't say her addition is as out of nowhere as other generally considered smaller fries.
So...what are the chances for a Missile cameo in the courtroom?

 

[Seanapotamus]

Hope I'm not too late on joining the Phoenix train. I think Phoenix has a ton of potential in his moveset (assuming he gets in) and would be a fun character to play as. The music is dope as well.

 

[Krankees]

My sis is obsessed with Danganronpa but I haven't played it. Even though it's super unlikely, they took the time to deconfirm Nihon Falcom for FP5, so I wouldn't completely count it out yet.

Anyway, the Ace Attorney Trilogy is on sale on the Switch. It's $20 right now, for any lurkers here who are interested in the series but never played it.

I feel like a problem for Monokuma is that Danganronpa has never been on a Nintendo console to my knowledge. While not being on a Nintendo console doesn't deconfirm him, it does hurt the character's chances.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I feel like a problem for Monokuma is that Danganronpa has never been on a Nintendo console to my knowledge. While not being on a Nintendo console doesn't deconfirm him, it does hurt the character's chances.

Well, actually, according to his supporters, he did get a cameo in one of Chunsoft's Nintendo-published games (besides the series songs being included in Crypt of the Necrodancer). Since making a cameo in a 3DS FF game was enough for him to get in, I wonder how far Sak is willing to stretch the loophole.

 

[KirbyMonadoBoy]

What do you think fits best as a victory theme for Phoenix Wright? I stumbled upon this on YouTube and think I think the SoJ-variant sounds really great:

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Well, actually, according to his supporters, he did get a cameo in one of Chunsoft's Nintendo-published games (besides the series songs being included in Crypt of the Necrodancer). Since making a cameo in a 3DS FF game was enough for him to get in, I wonder how far Sak is willing to stretch the loophole.

don't forget his really small role in KH:CoM!

What do you think fits best as a victory theme for Phoenix Wright? I stumbled upon this on YouTube and think I think the SoJ-variant sounds really great:

it's hard to guess given the won the lawsuit changes on each game, I'd say T&T and DD have my favorites, but that's no measure of likeliness. It could also just be a short rendition of the Objection theme, it's not like Hero goes with the weird victory screech from the DQ series for his victory theme

 

[Krankees]

Well, actually, according to his supporters, he did get a cameo in one of Chunsoft's Nintendo-published games (besides the series songs being included in Crypt of the Necrodancer). Since making a cameo in a 3DS FF game was enough for him to get in, I wonder how far Sak is willing to stretch the loophole.

I went online to check and apparently he made cameos in a lot of Chunsoft's games, some of which were on Nintendo systems. That raises his chances higher than I originally thought but I'm still gonna believe Phoenix has a better chance.

 

[Korar]

When it comes to victory themes, i think maybe they should just have the entire original "won the case" theme play over the victory screen.

I mean, if joker gets a special victory screen, i don't see why others can't.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

I wouldn't expect a permanent loop of a victory theme, what I do expect is lots of confetti falling from the skies that'll likely be cleaned by Gumshoe afterwards

 

[Arctiq]

When it comes to victory themes, i think maybe they should just have the entire original "won the case" theme play over the victory screen.

I mean, if joker gets a special victory screen, i don't see why others can't.

Ohh, I'd love to have a "not guilty" screen come up if Phoenix wins with his final smash.

 

[Hinata]

Ohh, I'd love to have a "not guilty" screen come up if Phoenix wins with his final smash.

When you're in a team match, the person sitting in the defendant's chair during Phoenix's Final Smash is one of your teammates.

if you're not on a team, the defendant is maya

 

[Dukemon102]

What do you think fits best as a victory theme for Phoenix Wright? I stumbled upon this on YouTube and think I think the SoJ-variant sounds really great:

A We Won the Case!! Variation would be ideal. But knowing the music's theme habits.
If a character doesn't have a short victory jingle. They take a snippet from his most famous and iconic theme (Unless you are of course).

I think they would make a victory jingle from Objection 2001. Like they did with or

 

[kirbsmash]

I-is he...still likely or...?

 

[ThunderSageNun]

While there's nothing teasing Phoenix atm, he has survived the onslaught of supposed disconfirmations so far, 2 of them from his biggest Capcom competition, and with Namco supposedly not being fighter 5, things are looking better than ever for Nick (although again, not confirmed or anything, so don't jump the gun).

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I-is he...still likely or...?

For now. No one and nothing has come out and straight up deconfirmed Wright yet.

... of course, we still have a week-and-a-half until the Game Awards, so brace yourself.

 

[Dukemon102]

Vergeben randomly appears on GameFAQs (Advice for your mental health, don't go there) on some topic that speculates about some company and then he shuts it down.
People there are spamming about Capcom to get Vergeben to deconfirm it. But he hasn't told anything since he killed Namco and Level 5.
My theory is that he doesn't say anything about Capcom because his source CAN'T say anything about it.

 

[Hinata]

Vergeben randomly appears on GameFAQs (Advice for your mental health, don't go there) on some topic that speculates about some company and then he shuts it down.
People there are spamming about Capcom to get Vergeben to deconfirm it. But he hasn't told anything since he killed Namco and Level 5.
My theory is that he can't say anything about Capcom because his source CAN'T say anything about it.

Alright, I'll be the first one to admit I'm biased as ****, and if anything points to Phoenix, you know I'm gonna chase it. But if what you're saying is true, and Verge hasn't deconfirmed Capcom yet (which is weird, considering it's not like he hasn't posted since the Namco deconfirmation)...

Gotta say, really makes you

 

[ThunderSageNun]

People there are spamming about Capcom to get Vergeben to deconfirm it. But he hasn't told anything since he killed Namco and Level 5.

Slight correction, he hasn't disconfirmed any other character/company since, but he has posted a few more times. It could be that our next character is Capcom, maybe his sources don't know for sure yet if it's them or not, or maybe Verge is just saving up more disconfirmations for another post for unknown reasons. I don't remember him disconfirming specific Capcom characters (that was Sabi), so I guess there's still that to watch out for.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

One other thing to be on the lookout for is spirit event announcements every week. They usually do uncreative ones, but occasionally they focus on series or characters that weren't represented in the game before then.

It roughly happens within the timeframe of Tuesday-Thursday.

 

[3BitSaurus]

if anything points to Phoenix

I see what you did there.

 

[Dukemon102]

Slight correction, he hasn't disconfirmed any other character/company since, but he has posted a few more times. It could be that our next character is Capcom, maybe his sources don't know for sure yet if it's them or not, or maybe Verge is just saving up more disconfirmations for another post for unknown reasons. I don't remember him disconfirming specific Capcom characters (that was Sabi), so I guess there's still that to watch out for.

Oh well. I actually meant that he hasn't said anything relevant (I really really don't want to go read the topics there). But the current trend there changed from Capcom to Sora. Our dear lawyer. Always being underestimated. But always looking out for the opportunity to create a turnabout.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

I do wonder why Sora is still being discussed for the first FP given Hashimotos supposed answer on the matter. Being a producer of the series, wouldn't it be likely he'd know and have to keep quiet or vague regarding the matter if he were to happen? Either way, I've already said how I feel about his chances on Smash, so I won't drag down further that topic.
I do kinda fear AA could be a potential random spirit board to happen, but I do wonder if they'd wait for AA7 release should that be the case given it's very unlikely that won't be on Switch.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, that is a good point there TSN. While AA almost certainly wouldn't get the spirit event treatment, other series may not be safe from that.

 

[fogbadge]

so whats the latest?

 

[Hinata]

so whats the latest?

Still no new deconfirmations from either Sabi or Verge, so our favorite boy in blue is still goin' strong. For now, at least.

 

[fogbadge]

Still no new deconfirmations from either Sabi or Verge, so our favorite boy in blue is still goin' strong. For now, at least.

well that's good

 

[SNEKeater]

As some people suggested a Phoenix trailer involving Joker, with the first defending the phantom thief for what he did last year would be amazing. At least it sounds great and very cool.
The problem is, I don't recall 3rd party announcements involving other 3rd party characters. I guess having Joker and Wright in the same trailer wouldn't be a problem for Sakurai, but maybe Capcom and/or Sega-Atlus wouldn't be happy about that.

But yeah. In any case I think that a hypothetical Phoenix reveal should start like an AA game, in a similar way to Isabelle's reveal.

 

[Seanapotamus]

Vergeben randomly appears on GameFAQs (Advice for your mental health, don't go there) on some topic that speculates about some company and then he shuts it down.
People there are spamming about Capcom to get Vergeben to deconfirm it. But he hasn't told anything since he killed Namco and Level 5.
My theory is that he doesn't say anything about Capcom because his source CAN'T say anything about it.

I'm surprised that Capcom hasn't been ruled out entirely yet, especially after the Resident Evil spirit event was announced. I don't think Vergeben posts too much on GameFAQs and even then I think he's aware of how much the people on that forum keep pestering him in giving character updates. We'll see what happens going forward.

But the good news is, Phoenix is still alive... for now, unless the hammer drops.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

It's hard to tell what franchises are safe or not from getting the RE treatment given how seemingly random it was, but at the very least I'd expect any franchise that receives that has had some mainline entry on a Nintendo system. Like, previous to the Switch ports, I'd say Dante was either a character you add to the roster (however likely his chances might be) or not feature at all in the game given his only previous appearances where through two crossover RPGs that I don't recall doing too well critically or commercially. On the other end of the spectrum, I could easily see indie games like Hollow Knight be given this treatment, hell, I could see the likes of Arthur and Crono just be featured in an event like that. It's kind of a scary precedent to set up given there's no way to see it coming, whereas mii costumes at least drop whenever a new DLC drops.

 

[Flyboy]

You know how we always say that Phoenix's reveal should feature an "OBJECTION!"? Crazy idea, but what if Sora/Nintendo rep/whoever gets the first trailer and then when it seems like it's all over, THAT'S when we get the OBJECTION?

Oof, there's nothing pointing to his inclusion, but I can't believe he's finally getting to be the talk of the town. This is his biggest popularity boost since, like, before Smash 4. Talk about a turnabout, huh?

 

[Leotsune]

I hope if Nick gets in we get at lot of remixes and music tracks in general.
Imagine an arragement of Turnabout Sisters made by ACE (TOMOri Kudo/CHiCO), and btw I find a bit odd they only have made that one Beneath the Mask remix.
Speaking of remixes which songs would like like to see remixed?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay, so on Arle thread it's believed that Sakura Shinguji would actually be the one to be FP5, mainly due to the timing of the VGAs airing on the same day as Shin SW's release date. What say you?