dguy6789
Smash Lord
Quoted for Truth.
FAR too many people underestimate the strategic advantage of the shadow ball.
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Taj is the best Mewtwo (Ask Taj Stuff Thread)
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FAR too many people underestimate the strategic advantage of the shadow ball.
6th Sense: 1.) Rarely ever unless I'm bored, want to throw them into the wall or tree to see explosions at Pokemon Stadium, or if I think they're going to DI away from the stage or something. Even then, it's still something I don't do very often.
2.) Up throw to confusion is very hot. If Falco is laser spamming you in your face, I found short hop confusion out of shield is useful here. It's still experimental though. Confusion can be nice against Peach trying to float aerials at you, since confusion acts like a grab. I don't tend to use it too often in general, but as a "confusion" move, people are generally surprised when I finally do use it, so I've never been punished for it.
3.) At low percentages, you just want to deal damage any way you can. So grabs, early back throws off the stage and chase, down throw up tilt poor DI, Down throw short hop shadow ball chase DI away and maybe force an early aerial to cover her self, and get a timely wavedash for that offensive grab. The simple answer is basically to just beat Samus, and then when she's high enough to die, you have to land the final grab. You never want them to feel like they're in that final grab percentage range though.
4.) I don't see it.
Down tilt down air is fun, but they can always meteor cancel it. I would either neutral air stomp Fox and drag Falco, or just get back airs on them until they die.
2.) Up throw to confusion is very hot. If Falco is laser spamming you in your face, I found short hop confusion out of shield is useful here. It's still experimental though. Confusion can be nice against Peach trying to float aerials at you, since confusion acts like a grab. I don't tend to use it too often in general, but as a "confusion" move, people are generally surprised when I finally do use it, so I've never been punished for it.
3.) At low percentages, you just want to deal damage any way you can. So grabs, early back throws off the stage and chase, down throw up tilt poor DI, Down throw short hop shadow ball chase DI away and maybe force an early aerial to cover her self, and get a timely wavedash for that offensive grab. The simple answer is basically to just beat Samus, and then when she's high enough to die, you have to land the final grab. You never want them to feel like they're in that final grab percentage range though.
4.) I don't see it.
Down tilt down air is fun, but they can always meteor cancel it. I would either neutral air stomp Fox and drag Falco, or just get back airs on them until they die.Khorsan
Smash Apprentice
Hey, now I have something more specific and useful that I need help with.
I apparently have Link troubles, which probably stems from almost never playing against Link. I can't get around his spam without taking hits and getting set up (and baby shadow balls can't even come close to competing). I also have a hard time getting back onto the stage after being kicked off (mostly due to the preceeding problem). And I keep getting wasted by that UpB spin.
My usual approaches of wave dashing in for dtilt and grab never seem to work, and I can't strike at him in the air that well with bombs and **** polluting the sky, and whenever I try to get close through the air, he's ready to slice me. Both matches I had against this Link were rather pitiful with my Mewtwo, and I'm hoping there's a way I can better approach it in the future outside of choosing Falco.
I apparently have Link troubles, which probably stems from almost never playing against Link. I can't get around his spam without taking hits and getting set up (and baby shadow balls can't even come close to competing). I also have a hard time getting back onto the stage after being kicked off (mostly due to the preceeding problem). And I keep getting wasted by that UpB spin.
My usual approaches of wave dashing in for dtilt and grab never seem to work, and I can't strike at him in the air that well with bombs and **** polluting the sky, and whenever I try to get close through the air, he's ready to slice me. Both matches I had against this Link were rather pitiful with my Mewtwo, and I'm hoping there's a way I can better approach it in the future outside of choosing Falco.
Against Link projectiles, take your time. If Link pulls a bomb, he can't use any aerials or grab until he throws it. Use that to your advantage on your approach. If he pulls a bomb, throws a boomerang, then throws a bomb, recognize that on your next approach. Teleport through the boomerang, shield a bomb throw, or go for a grab. When he has his bomb out is when you want to stick on him and make him get rid of it in a bad position as well. You don't want him to start combos with that bomb, so
You can also just swat a boomerang with a forward tilt and focus on grabbing carelessly thrown bombs. Link has a lot of ways to keep swinging and throwing stuff at you, but you, but baby shadow balls aren't useless here, you just can't match what he can do. Bombs, aren't that big of a deal as long as you're able to avoid getting hit by the boomerang and use those small windows to create openings, though it's all a timing issue. Link isn't going to always be open from throwing a boomerang while having his bomb out, but you aren't always going to be open teleporting through boomerangs either.
Up B is hit or miss, so that's just you putting yourself in a position where you can't recognize it coming out. If you're having trouble recovering against Link, then you must not be sweet spotting the ledge from above the stage like you're supposed to.
What you're looking for in this match up, are creating failed offensive and defensive actions. You want to get Link to miss with his Up B offensively and out of shield, miss down airs, and miss hookshot grabs. Then you want to scare him by showing him you can get through his mess of projectiles and bring the game close, but far enough away that he can't just swing his sword and legs any direction he wants safely. Then getting that tech chase grab started, and good edge guarding.
As far as your approach goes, you want to approach in a way where you can short hop over a hookshot, but you want to be grounded enough to avoid his neutral air or shield his jabs.
Sorry I'm a little tired at the moment, hopefully that made sense.
You can also just swat a boomerang with a forward tilt and focus on grabbing carelessly thrown bombs. Link has a lot of ways to keep swinging and throwing stuff at you, but you, but baby shadow balls aren't useless here, you just can't match what he can do. Bombs, aren't that big of a deal as long as you're able to avoid getting hit by the boomerang and use those small windows to create openings, though it's all a timing issue. Link isn't going to always be open from throwing a boomerang while having his bomb out, but you aren't always going to be open teleporting through boomerangs either.
Up B is hit or miss, so that's just you putting yourself in a position where you can't recognize it coming out. If you're having trouble recovering against Link, then you must not be sweet spotting the ledge from above the stage like you're supposed to.
What you're looking for in this match up, are creating failed offensive and defensive actions. You want to get Link to miss with his Up B offensively and out of shield, miss down airs, and miss hookshot grabs. Then you want to scare him by showing him you can get through his mess of projectiles and bring the game close, but far enough away that he can't just swing his sword and legs any direction he wants safely. Then getting that tech chase grab started, and good edge guarding.
As far as your approach goes, you want to approach in a way where you can short hop over a hookshot, but you want to be grounded enough to avoid his neutral air or shield his jabs.
Sorry I'm a little tired at the moment, hopefully that made sense.
6th Sense
Smash Lord
Thanks!! Great advice!! :D
D
Deleted member
Guest
you know what feels really good on link? using nothing but dtilt to downthrow, downthrow to dtilt, downthrow to downthrow with bad DI, or downthrow to tech chase dtilt to downthrow.
2 moves feels 2 good.
2 moves feels 2 good.
MetaKnight0
Smash Lord
You're evil.
Khorsan
Smash Apprentice
And what did you expect from UmbreonMow? He's crazy-evil.
Nonetheless, I don't like this Link player as a person, so I have to try this craziness out, at least for a bit.
Nonetheless, I don't like this Link player as a person, so I have to try this craziness out, at least for a bit.
Tongji
Smash Journeyman
I have a question for MOW (if he ever looks at this post again) well I heard from crash man that your m2 loves playing shieks and you can 0-death combo many of those stupid ninja girls. I am wondering if you would enlighten me to your general shiek strats or anything that you wouldn't mind talking about here in the public forums when you fight shiek. thanks for your time man.
Bass.
Smash Journeyman
That is a double edge sword against Falcon players.
Hah, I just saw this thread. Good ****.
hey Tony, I don't necessarily want help WITH Mewtwo, but how about against him? What are some key things I should do in the Mewtwo/Falco matchup. Like, what did Forward used to do that would be really effective, or things that you were afraid of when playing him?
Mewtwo is kind of tall, so SHFFL'ing attacks right into his shield seems to result in more shield grabs than other chars, would you say that is true? Or did I just get mindgamed? Or both?
Taj too good.
hey Tony, I don't necessarily want help WITH Mewtwo, but how about against him? What are some key things I should do in the Mewtwo/Falco matchup. Like, what did Forward used to do that would be really effective, or things that you were afraid of when playing him?
Mewtwo is kind of tall, so SHFFL'ing attacks right into his shield seems to result in more shield grabs than other chars, would you say that is true? Or did I just get mindgamed? Or both?
Taj too good.
quak
Smash Champion
learn to pillar us, we hate that.
And SHL like a *****.
after that, you should be able to beat us
And SHL like a *****.
after that, you should be able to beat us
Yeah, to win you basically just SHL camp to the best of your ability, but if I call a powershield you have to be ready for it. You can shffl on Mewtwo, but yeah it is harder because he is taller. Basically, you want to try to exploit as many of Mewtwo's weaknesses as possible, like calling early down tilts and ccing them into your down tilt.
I pretty much hated playing Forward in general. He's just so **** good on every level that I basically had to learn to shut down or minimize the **** to the best of my ability.
But in order to answer your question, you basically just play patiently, but difficult to punish. So that means your focus is safety because Mewtwo has a hard time punishing small windows. For Falco, since he has a harder time KOing Mewtwo. It's mostly going to be down tilt, tech chase smashes, laser combo smashes when Mewtwo is in the air, and possibly up air finishing him off.
I pretty much hated playing Forward in general.
He's just so **** good on every level that I basically had to learn to shut down or minimize the **** to the best of my ability. But in order to answer your question, you basically just play patiently, but difficult to punish. So that means your focus is safety because Mewtwo has a hard time punishing small windows. For Falco, since he has a harder time KOing Mewtwo. It's mostly going to be down tilt, tech chase smashes, laser combo smashes when Mewtwo is in the air, and possibly up air finishing him off.
GREAT-ONE
Smash Journeyman
Taj aka Tony is TOO GOOD!! Best mewtwo fo sho....
Var Parasite
Smash Apprentice
Time for another vague question. I need help against marth , I can't seem to beat my friends with a huge difference when they're using him (my only friend who actually beats me once in a while hates using marth) , even a cpu doesn't get killed 10 times before it kills me. Note : My mewtwo doesn't control all the techs perfectly yet.
Sorry, but vague questions get vague responses. If you have no tech skill and can't control Mewtwo like you should, then the answer is to simply... Learn 2 Play. Practice and get better mang, sorry.
Airo
Smash Lord
taj... do you think quak can quote all your posts and stick them into character specific strategies in his quide?
=p
=p
Var Parasite
Smash Apprentice
Sorry, false alarm, I forgot to use advanced mindgames (kicks himself in the head), next time I'll double check before asking for help (well, that was just about the stupidest thing I've ever done). Excuse me for wasting your time. (See ranking)
Mew2King
King of the Mews
everybody knows that I'm the best mewtwo
Cort
Apple Head
Jason, your Mewtwo is boring.
And therefore not good.
And therefore not good.
D
Deleted member
Guest
dguy6789
Smash Lord
I would like to see that match Mow.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
I love how every post on smashboards is taken seriously
Little Greg
Smash Apprentice
lolz mew2king speaks da troof
I am not going to SMYM 7.
Airo, ummm... I guess that's ok, though I don't think I said anything quote worthy.
Airo, ummm... I guess that's ok, though I don't think I said anything quote worthy.
Eggz
Smash Hero
I'm pretty sure Gimpyfish has the best Bowser.
*looks at thread title*
Aw yeah. That other garbage character. My bad. >_> <_< CYA.
*looks at thread title*
Aw yeah. That other garbage character. My bad. >_> <_< CYA.
Silent Wolf
...
LMAO!
umm...
That Taj is really good. MM when u come to WA fox v mewtwo k...?
</on topic>
umm...
That Taj is really good. MM when u come to WA fox v mewtwo k...?
</on topic>
South_Paw
Smash Ace
yo tony, what do you suggest about fighting peach with mewtwo... so far the main problems is that he's so big, i cant di out of a downsmash and usually get hit two or three times. the only thing i have tried that is even useful is a d-tilt at medium percents... but therein lies the danger of you cc'ing if she downsmashes.
edgeguarding is diffucult becuse im not sure what moves would keep her away.
this just seems like a hard fight overall and i was wondering what you had to say on it
EDIT: Also, on low platform stages, i've actually been caught in the d-smash from up-tilting, and i'd try to just wait for it and jump, but usually, with her massive hitboxes and the move having so little lag, it's hard to punish the d-smash when she's above you
edgeguarding is diffucult becuse im not sure what moves would keep her away.
this just seems like a hard fight overall and i was wondering what you had to say on it
EDIT: Also, on low platform stages, i've actually been caught in the d-smash from up-tilting, and i'd try to just wait for it and jump, but usually, with her massive hitboxes and the move having so little lag, it's hard to punish the d-smash when she's above you
South Paw: You can space a down tilt at the tip and not get nailed by Peach's Down smash. If you manage to shield the down smash and not get sucked in, you can sometimes sneak in a forward air out of shield as well. At lower percents, you're mostly looking to grab her on the ground, or keep poking her with your tail when she's in the air.
When Peach is above you on a low platform stage and down smashes, that's where you just gotta time it. It's not invincible, so you can get that up tilt in between by waiting. Neutral air is a bit riskier, but you could also do that. Even a short hop to DJC up air might help you time it a little better.
When Peach is above you on a low platform stage and down smashes, that's where you just gotta time it. It's not invincible, so you can get that up tilt in between by waiting. Neutral air is a bit riskier, but you could also do that. Even a short hop to DJC up air might help you time it a little better.
D
Deleted member
Guest
mewtwo is light, big, and his tail is part of his hitbox. don't challenge the downsmash, just don't.
If you don't challenge the down smash in some fashion, you're just limiting yourself even more. It doesn't hurt to see what you can get away with. The goal is to find as many options as possible for fighting such a powerful move as well as the character, regardless of how big and light M2 is.
Unfortunately, this is the consequence of playing Mewtwo and something everyone that does needs to deal with.
Unfortunately, this is the consequence of playing Mewtwo and something everyone that does needs to deal with.
MetaKnight0
Smash Lord
I might be fuzzy on this but I think max range Down Tilt will beat Down Smash.
Wait Taj already said it. I personally approach Peach by staying just out of range of her best attacks but close enough so she can't pull turnips. Max range down tilt is far enough to beat a lot of Peach's ground game and you can do situational stuff like always (DD, WD, whatever shenanigans you use) to fight Peach when she inevitably starts to float and attempt to beat Down Tilt.
Also Taj has won this topic with his signature. Weakness Masterball hahaha
Wait Taj already said it. I personally approach Peach by staying just out of range of her best attacks but close enough so she can't pull turnips. Max range down tilt is far enough to beat a lot of Peach's ground game and you can do situational stuff like always (DD, WD, whatever shenanigans you use) to fight Peach when she inevitably starts to float and attempt to beat Down Tilt.
Also Taj has won this topic with his signature. Weakness Masterball hahaha
D
Deleted member
Guest
seeing what you can get away with is much more player oriented than character oriented. I wouldn't advise anyone to challenge peach's downsmash anyway, it is much more beneficial to range camp peach in general.
of course you can still punish it, just wait for her attack to be over before you uptilt so you don't risk it.
Tongji
Smash Journeyman
D-smash aside M2 should destroy any peach. Nair totaly kills half of her game. ie. turnips do nothing to you, so you can pretty much rely on that to rack up some damage Dtilt works ok as well. The only thing you really have to watch out for is D-smash, and you can just WD out of the way so I don't think that it's a really big deal. Don't get me wrong Dsmash is a killer move, definatly want to avoid that one.
MetaKnight0
Smash Lord
Are you crazy Tongji? Aside from Down Tilt, Mewtwo gets outprioritized by Peach's attacks. A good Peach player is also looking for those mistakes from the opponent so honestly I don't see how Down Smash can work on Peach more than a scant few times. You're also forgetting Peach's air game. That **** is scary as **** for Mewtwo because Mewtwo can't use shield-grabs (FC > Down Smash usually) and Peach will straight out beat any air you toss out with Back Air. Most of the time if you try to attack her in the air you'll trade and end up worse unless you used Forward Air, sometimes you won't even get that far. Neutral Air has to be used before she even uses an air, and that stuff is risky once they start catching on. Doesn't even matter if Neutral Air stops turnips, they're still floating there and do damage, and she doesn't even care that much if you manage to avoid damage anyways.
Mewtwo is definitely not going to get far by outprioritizing or shutting down any part of her game with a single move. Mewtwo rarely manages to shut down the opponent's options; the goal is usually to keep as many options at his disposal as possible.
Mewtwo is definitely not going to get far by outprioritizing or shutting down any part of her game with a single move. Mewtwo rarely manages to shut down the opponent's options; the goal is usually to keep as many options at his disposal as possible.
Tongji
Smash Journeyman
Meta knight i wasn't really talking about M2's Dsmash I was talking about peaches. You are right, It would be pointless to you Dsmash On a peach. You will probally never get the chance to use it. When i am talking about nair i mean use it when she has a turnip. You will just fly right through. (only do this if she has a turnip out) that is what I was trying to say. Sorry if I sounded a bit vauge.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I played forward exactly once today in some random teams friendly, and even though he was sheik instead of falco I took my single opportunity to play mewtwo.
It was sweet.
It was sweet.
quak
Smash Champion
Not sure if i agree with that, flip it around, and i probably would...
if you spam the nair too much, she'll read very easily, and punish you with her own at least. Best way to victory is to try to get under her, and shffl upairs to juggle/rack up damage, then get a grab kill.
dguy6789
Smash Lord
I have found myself not necessarily destroying, but definitely winning against pretty much every Peach I play against.
Granted, one of the guys I regularly practice against almost every day mains as Peach, so I may just be insanely good against Peaches compared to other M2 players simply from experience alone.
I found that if you can just keep your spacing and not do anything stupid(like getting hit by Peach's down smash) that it is not that difficult of a fight. I find it to really be a mind game battle.
Granted, one of the guys I regularly practice against almost every day mains as Peach, so I may just be insanely good against Peaches compared to other M2 players simply from experience alone.
I found that if you can just keep your spacing and not do anything stupid(like getting hit by Peach's down smash) that it is not that difficult of a fight. I find it to really be a mind game battle.