"Swordies"

Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
53
Switch FC
SW 7571 9773 6698
#41
Well, that's just patently untrue. Vines, magic, electricity, and explosions are all disjointed hitboxes with the same properties as a weapon that won't get the user hurt if an enemy attack strikes only the hitbox and not the player's model. There are even a fair handful of attacks in the game that grant intangibility to a character's limbs so that they function as disjoints too.
Okay, so how come every time I try to u-air a falling swordie (or anyone else with a weapon) with Zelda I take damage and they don't? If it was just a matter of timing I'm pretty sure I would have lucked out with that at least once by now.
 

Arrei

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
1,194
#42
Okay, so how come every time I try to u-air a falling swordie (or anyone else with a weapon) with Zelda I take damage and they don't? If it was just a matter of timing I'm pretty sure I would have lucked out with that at least once by now.
Because Zelda's sticking her arm up to throw out a slow hitbox and they're getting you in the fingers. Spacing isn't about luck, and Zelda's Uair is going to need some extremely precise spacing to make the explosion come out at just the right height, at just the right timing, that it nicks the opponent without stretching her arm into something. It's probably outright impossible against lingering sword Dairs like Cloud and Link's.

You're not going to get hurt if someone, say, throws a landing Fair at the magic emanating from Zelda's Fsmash but doesn't actually hit her outstretched hand.
 
Last edited:

MacSmitty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
417
Location
Queens , New York
NNID
Seeker624
#43
It was Ivysaur. Not an actual sword character, but one who plays very similar to a sword character. Ivysaur also has a reputation for being "braindead".
Wait it does? While Ivysaur gives me trouble, I never thought of it as "scrub-friendly". Although then again I don't have that mentality for any sort of character...
 

Zachmac

I like turtles.
Premium
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Messages
4,867
Location
Arizona
3DS FC
4210-4109-6434
NNID
AbsolBlade
Switch FC
SW-1754-5854-0794
#44
Wait it does? While Ivysaur gives me trouble, I never thought of it as "scrub-friendly". Although then again I don't have that mentality for any sort of character...
I see people complain about Ivysaur all the time. Razor Leaf is spammable, Fair and Bair are hard to challenge, and its infamous Uair and Dair hitboxes are massive. Ivysaur also has a kill confirm at around 90% out of grab that people hate.

To be honest pretty much every good character has a reputation for being "braindead", and even some who aren't that good like K.Rool and Little Mac. I think people often just don't like to admit their losses are partly their own fault.
 
Last edited:

RepStar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
389
Location
Houston
Switch FC
SW-5945-3794-8387
#45
To be honest pretty much every good character has a reputation for being "braindead", and even some who aren't that good like K.Rool and Little Mac. I think people often just don't like to admit their losses are partly their own fault.
Blatant lie and untrue. The first and second sentence, especially the first. Ness isnt braindead at all for example.

Inb4pkfirespam
 
Last edited:

MacSmitty

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Messages
417
Location
Queens , New York
NNID
Seeker624
#47
Blatant lie and untrue. The first and second sentence, especially the first. Ness isnt braindead at all for example.

Inb4pkfirespam
I'm gonna assume you weren't around when 4 launched, because people were definitely calling Little Mac braindead at release. King K. Rool also got called braindead too for being a way better heavy than the rest and people not knowing how to deal with his projectiles.

Ness is also called braindead in this game too by detractors due to the aforementioned move.
 
Last edited:

Vierge

#1soyboy
Premium
Joined
Jul 20, 2016
Messages
21
Location
US midwest
Switch FC
3850 4617 0606
#48
What I dislike most about 'swordies' is that there are 4 of them from FE which are all basically top tier, and they all have freak-blue hair. And that's super lame.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
53
Switch FC
SW 7571 9773 6698
#49
I know right? They should have given Chrom and Lucina purple hair, make them different from Ike and Marth. Like I know they're supposed to be related but come on, Awakening's how many years after Marth's games? Surely the hair color could have changed by then.

Edit: Wait a minute...the hair color HAS changed by then! Chrom has two sisters and they're both blonde! Okay now there's no excuse to not make those two purpleheads or greenheads.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
1,993
Location
Middletown, Ohio
NNID
sneak_diss
#52
Can any and all people who think "swordies" are OP pick one and try to go on a 25 win streak? 2/3 Against different players of course.

And funny thing about saying who "takes more skill" than who, is it all kinda falls about apart when adding player skill into the discussion.

"Mario is super easy!!" play with him against leffen.

Even if you were a top player, you'd understand that mario is a easily understood character, and you would have to bring an extreme level of fundamentals because you can't use tech, insane movement, insane combos and follow up potential, or quirkiness to win, no. Just extremely polished fundamentals.

Also, a swordy describes a playstyle of using a big hitbox to keep an opponent at a certain range, not close, but not far. Marth is the posterboy for swordies, so his playstyle is what a swordy is. The Links are hybrid swordies due to their use of other weapons.
 

Krimnorr

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 4, 2019
Messages
48
#53
Can any and all people who think "swordies" are OP pick one and try to go on a 25 win streak? 2/3 Against different players of course.
I agree with this entirely. I was under the assumption that swordies were generally an easy way to win, until I tried out Ike yesterday and realized I was pure garbage at him. Sure they're strong once you get them down, but they're by no means a free win.
 

RepStar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
389
Location
Houston
Switch FC
SW-5945-3794-8387
#54
I assume all the characters you struggle against are braindead, then?
Nope. No sir. Jigglypuff definitely isnt braindead.

Can any and all people who think "swordies" are OP pick one and try to go on a 25 win streak? 2/3 Against different players of course.
25 is impractical though, why not 10.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
53
Switch FC
SW 7571 9773 6698
#55
Pardon me, what do you mean when by a 25 winstreak. Is this quickplay? Arenas? Locals? Something else?
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
61
#56
I do agree that there are too many FE sword users now. I'd like to see them try to branch out with a lance user or even a heavy hitter ax fighter like maybe Hector from the first FE that came overseas to the US. That way the game that started it all for us gets someone in the roster.
Actually Prince Innes from Sacred Stones and a manakete (Nowi, Nah, Tiki) from Awakening are on the top of my wishlist of FE characters. How cool would it be to have a dedicated archer in here? He should not be about projectile spam though...
 

osby

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
9,786
#57
I know right? They should have given Chrom and Lucina purple hair, make them different from Ike and Marth. Like I know they're supposed to be related but come on, Awakening's how many years after Marth's games? Surely the hair color could have changed by then.

Edit: Wait a minute...the hair color HAS changed by then! Chrom has two sisters and they're both blonde! Okay now there's no excuse to not make those two purpleheads or greenheads.
Guys, Link needs black or brown hair! I know all Links are descendants of one but come on, there are centuries between them, it's ridiculous!
 

Opossum

Thread Title Changer
GRimer
Joined
Aug 10, 2011
Messages
27,283
Location
This Thread
3DS FC
4742-4911-3431
NNID
OpossumGuy
Switch FC
SW 2859 6322 5208
#60
Actually Prince Innes from Sacred Stones and a manakete (Nowi, Nah, Tiki) from Awakening are on the top of my wishlist of FE characters. How cool would it be to have a dedicated archer in here? He should not be about projectile spam though...
Plus if Innes got in, Xander Mobus would simultaneously voice him, the announcer, and Joker. :p
 
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
1,993
Location
Middletown, Ohio
NNID
sneak_diss
#62
25 is impractical though, why not 10.
Pardon me, what do you mean when by a 25 winstreak. Is this quickplay? Arenas? Locals? Something else?
the matches you do, the stronger the data. you have more chances to play against strong players the more you play. 10 matches is a super small sample. I would honestly recommend a higher number like 70 or 100, but nobody is gonna spend that much time, especially with lag causing some matches to be ambiguous.

when I talked about a 25 win-streak, I'm talking in any setting (that's competitive of course). It's better to do it in locals because of the lack of lag, but you could account for that variable and play more matches online.
 
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
53
Switch FC
SW 7571 9773 6698
#63
Guys, Link needs black or brown hair! I know all Links are descendants of one but come on, there are centuries between them, it's ridiculous!
I mean Zelda had brown hair in one of her incarnations and Link had pink hair in LTTP and ditched the iconic tunic in BOTW so I feel a change in hair color wouldn't be out of the question for him. It's a hell of a design challenge though and risks making the fanboys real made, so it's not one I'd blame Nintendo for not doing.
 

osby

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
9,786
#64
I mean Zelda had brown hair in one of her incarnations and Link had pink hair in LTTP and ditched the iconic tunic in BOTW so I feel a change in hair color wouldn't be out of the question for him. It's a hell of a design challenge though and risks making the fanboys real made, so it's not one I'd blame Nintendo for not doing.
it was sarcasm
 

TheDuke54

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
66
#65
Actually Prince Innes from Sacred Stones and a manakete (Nowi, Nah, Tiki) from Awakening are on the top of my wishlist of FE characters. How cool would it be to have a dedicated archer in here? He should not be about projectile spam though...
I don't know how they would make an archer without them being primarily an archer lol. Which would make them all projectile based spam. I do like the idea...maybe they could have a dagger for close combat. That still wouldn't help with them being based on arrow projectiles.
 

Idon

Smash Hero
Joined
May 24, 2018
Messages
8,566
Location
the end of the long road
NNID
Demi-fiend
Switch FC
King of Chaos
#66
I don't know how they would make an archer without them being primarily an archer lol. Which would make them all projectile based spam. I do like the idea...maybe they could have a dagger for close combat. That still wouldn't help with them being based on arrow projectiles.
Or just smack em with the bow or punch em. Like Ike's jab is straight up just a straight jab.
 

TheDuke54

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
66
#67
Well damn, that does sound like a good idea. Just hit em like its a banjo lol. It's so obvious and I didn't even think of it.
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Messages
61
#68
I don't know how they would make an archer without them being primarily an archer lol. Which would make them all projectile based spam. I do like the idea...maybe they could have a dagger for close combat. That still wouldn't help with them being based on arrow projectiles.
I actually had a partial moveset in mind.

Forward smash could be a two-hitter similar to Link's: A strike with the bow, a dynamic 360°, then an arrow shot.
Neutral B could be the bow aka spam.
Down B a heel slide (like Belmont/Bayo), then a shot with an arrow (maybe diagonal upward?).
Jab a three hit strike like Ike, just with a bow.

You can go watch the overwatch cinematic "dragons" and check how Hanzo fights, already gives some nice moves.
 
Last edited:

RepStar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
389
Location
Houston
Switch FC
SW-5945-3794-8387
#69
the matches you do, the stronger the data. you have more chances to play against strong players the more you play. 10 matches is a super small sample. I would honestly recommend a higher number like 70 or 100, but nobody is gonna spend that much time, especially with lag causing some matches to be ambiguous.

when I talked about a 25 win-streak, I'm talking in any setting (that's competitive of course). It's better to do it in locals because of the lack of lag, but you could account for that variable and play more matches online.
And if i do..this will somehow prove that swordies take no ****ing skill and are advantaged characters with "disjointed" hitboxes thats OK to everyone. I mean imagine a sword character being in street fighter with the same frama data. But in smash bros they have projectiles and a ****ing counter but yet "spacing is difficult" . why does a long range character need a counter? Isnt that a fighter/brawler move? I mean, wtf.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
Premium
GRimer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
32,773
Location
Um....Lost?
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
NNID
Swampasaur
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
#70
And if i do..this will somehow prove that swordies take no ****ing skill and are advantaged characters with "disjointed" hitboxes thats OK to everyone. I mean imagine a sword character being in street fighter with the same frama data.
Street Fighter is a game that's built on disjoints.
LMAO, you'd hate Rolento and Falke.
 

RepStar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
389
Location
Houston
Switch FC
SW-5945-3794-8387
#71
Street Fighter is a game that's built on disjoints.
LMAO, you'd hate Rolento and Falke.
What street fighter are you even talking about. Falke is not in IV. and in IV, how many swords(poles, whatever) were that game again? Atleast rolento frames were predictable and sucked. They werent lightning fast with a poking range. Rolento if i remember, didnt do much damage either.
 
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
1,993
Location
Middletown, Ohio
NNID
sneak_diss
#72
And if i do..this will somehow prove that swordies take no ****ing skill and are advantaged characters with "disjointed" hitboxes thats OK to everyone. I mean imagine a sword character being in street fighter with the same frama data. But in smash bros they have projectiles and a ****ing counter but yet "spacing is difficult" . why does a long range character need a counter? Isnt that a fighter/brawler move? I mean, wtf.
It wouldn't prove anything, but it would become evidence for your claim. and the bigger the number, the stronger. and browny points for getting involved in local tournies.

quick question, if you did a lucina ditto against a strong player, would she still take no skill?
 

RepStar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
389
Location
Houston
Switch FC
SW-5945-3794-8387
#73
It wouldn't prove anything, but it would become evidence for your claim. and the bigger the number, the stronger. and browny points for getting involved in local tournies.

quick question, if you did a lucina ditto against a strong player, would she still take no skill?

Thats a weird question because u could get 2 newbies to play lucina and the outcome would be random. Mirror matches dont measure skill with the character because i use my main to fight other characters not my main himself. If i lose a mirror match, that same player i lost to may lose against other characters/opponents that i could beat.
So to answer your question, yes.
 
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
1,993
Location
Middletown, Ohio
NNID
sneak_diss
#74
Thats a weird question because u could get 2 newbies to play lucina and the outcome would be random. Mirror matches dont measure skill with the character because i use my main to fight other characters not my main himself. If i lose a mirror match, that same player i lost to may lose against other characters/opponents that i could beat.
So to answer your question, yes.
the bold doesn't make sense in response to what I said. two newbies would turn the entire game into a luck-based one where everything has a lack of a skill requirement. But, that's not reality. Reality is playing against a player who has a solid understanding of the game mechanics and his/her character and their MUs, and uses that knowledge to defeat you.

Mirror matches happen, and when you talk about a character not taking skill, what do you mean by that? i bring up you vs a strong player in a lucina ditto, because it directly counters the idea of a character taking no skill. What does it mean for a character to not take skill? and since this is a fighting game, which characters can she be braindead against? and how would you know (you really played against 70 other characters with top tier players behind them)?

It literally doesn't make sense to say a character takes no skill when playing against other players, no matter how broken or overpowered they are.
 

RepStar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
389
Location
Houston
Switch FC
SW-5945-3794-8387
#75
the bold doesn't make sense in response to what I said. two newbies would turn the entire game into a luck-based one where everything has a lack of a skill requirement. But, that's not reality. Reality is playing against a player who has a solid understanding of the game mechanics and his/her character and their MUs, and uses that knowledge to defeat you.

Mirror matches happen, and when you talk about a character not taking skill, what do you mean by that? i bring up you vs a strong player in a lucina ditto, because it directly counters the idea of a character taking no skill. What does it mean for a character to not take skill? and since this is a fighting game, which characters can she be braindead against? and how would you know (you really played against 70 other characters with top tier players behind them)?

It literally doesn't make sense to say a character takes no skill when playing against other players, no matter how broken or overpowered they are.
I give up, youre right. Honestly.
 

MalanoMan

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
232
Switch FC
SW-0183_3775_0422
#77
I would say all the Fire Emblem fighters except Robin and all the Links would apply for swordies/swordy? I see that the OP just listed all the FE fighters, but the Links pretty much use their sword as their main weapon to land successful kills. Yes they use projectiles, but those can't land any decisive kills until someone is at 300%. Least I never tried to rake up enough damage so my experience is just from SD.
I agree with this definition too. Refers to the sword wielding FE characters. Links definitely slide into the category, but their play style with projectiles is so different that they really aren't "swordies"
 
Top