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"Swordies"

Team Orchid

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Well, that's just patently untrue. Vines, magic, electricity, and explosions are all disjointed hitboxes with the same properties as a weapon that won't get the user hurt if an enemy attack strikes only the hitbox and not the player's model. There are even a fair handful of attacks in the game that grant intangibility to a character's limbs so that they function as disjoints too.
Okay, so how come every time I try to u-air a falling swordie (or anyone else with a weapon) with Zelda I take damage and they don't? If it was just a matter of timing I'm pretty sure I would have lucked out with that at least once by now.
 

Arrei

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Okay, so how come every time I try to u-air a falling swordie (or anyone else with a weapon) with Zelda I take damage and they don't? If it was just a matter of timing I'm pretty sure I would have lucked out with that at least once by now.
Because Zelda's sticking her arm up to throw out a slow hitbox and they're getting you in the fingers. Spacing isn't about luck, and Zelda's Uair is going to need some extremely precise spacing to make the explosion come out at just the right height, at just the right timing, that it nicks the opponent without stretching her arm into something. It's probably outright impossible against lingering sword Dairs like Cloud and Link's.

You're not going to get hurt if someone, say, throws a landing Fair at the magic emanating from Zelda's Fsmash but doesn't actually hit her outstretched hand.
 
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MacSmitty

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It was Ivysaur. Not an actual sword character, but one who plays very similar to a sword character. Ivysaur also has a reputation for being "braindead".
Wait it does? While Ivysaur gives me trouble, I never thought of it as "scrub-friendly". Although then again I don't have that mentality for any sort of character...
 

ZephyrZ

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Wait it does? While Ivysaur gives me trouble, I never thought of it as "scrub-friendly". Although then again I don't have that mentality for any sort of character...
I see people complain about Ivysaur all the time. Razor Leaf is spammable, Fair and Bair are hard to challenge, and its infamous Uair and Dair hitboxes are massive. Ivysaur also has a kill confirm at around 90% out of grab that people hate.

To be honest pretty much every good character has a reputation for being "braindead", and even some who aren't that good like K.Rool and Little Mac. I think people often just don't like to admit their losses are partly their own fault.
 
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RepStar

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To be honest pretty much every good character has a reputation for being "braindead", and even some who aren't that good like K.Rool and Little Mac. I think people often just don't like to admit their losses are partly their own fault.
Blatant lie and untrue. The first and second sentence, especially the first. Ness isnt braindead at all for example.

Inb4pkfirespam
 
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ZephyrZ

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Blatant lie and untrue. The first and second sentence, especially the first. Ness isnt braindead at all for example.

Inb4pkfirespam
I didn't say they're brain dead, I said people call them brain dead.
 

MacSmitty

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Blatant lie and untrue. The first and second sentence, especially the first. Ness isnt braindead at all for example.

Inb4pkfirespam
I'm gonna assume you weren't around when 4 launched, because people were definitely calling Little Mac braindead at release. King K. Rool also got called braindead too for being a way better heavy than the rest and people not knowing how to deal with his projectiles.

Ness is also called braindead in this game too by detractors due to the aforementioned move.
 
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Vierge

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What I dislike most about 'swordies' is that there are 4 of them from FE which are all basically top tier, and they all have freak-blue hair. And that's super lame.
 

Team Orchid

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I know right? They should have given Chrom and Lucina purple hair, make them different from Ike and Marth. Like I know they're supposed to be related but come on, Awakening's how many years after Marth's games? Surely the hair color could have changed by then.

Edit: Wait a minute...the hair color HAS changed by then! Chrom has two sisters and they're both blonde! Okay now there's no excuse to not make those two purpleheads or greenheads.
 
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RepStar

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I didn't say they're brain dead, I said people call them brain dead.
My bad, i thought u meant every character is braindead in some way. Some characters arent but a lot are. Like swor- nvm.
 

Baby_Sneak

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Can any and all people who think "swordies" are OP pick one and try to go on a 25 win streak? 2/3 Against different players of course.

And funny thing about saying who "takes more skill" than who, is it all kinda falls about apart when adding player skill into the discussion.

"Mario is super easy!!" play with him against leffen.

Even if you were a top player, you'd understand that mario is a easily understood character, and you would have to bring an extreme level of fundamentals because you can't use tech, insane movement, insane combos and follow up potential, or quirkiness to win, no. Just extremely polished fundamentals.

Also, a swordy describes a playstyle of using a big hitbox to keep an opponent at a certain range, not close, but not far. Marth is the posterboy for swordies, so his playstyle is what a swordy is. The Links are hybrid swordies due to their use of other weapons.
 

Krimnorr

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Can any and all people who think "swordies" are OP pick one and try to go on a 25 win streak? 2/3 Against different players of course.
I agree with this entirely. I was under the assumption that swordies were generally an easy way to win, until I tried out Ike yesterday and realized I was pure garbage at him. Sure they're strong once you get them down, but they're by no means a free win.
 

RepStar

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I assume all the characters you struggle against are braindead, then?
Nope. No sir. Jigglypuff definitely isnt braindead.

Can any and all people who think "swordies" are OP pick one and try to go on a 25 win streak? 2/3 Against different players of course.
25 is impractical though, why not 10.
 

Team Orchid

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Pardon me, what do you mean when by a 25 winstreak. Is this quickplay? Arenas? Locals? Something else?
 

channel_KYX

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I do agree that there are too many FE sword users now. I'd like to see them try to branch out with a lance user or even a heavy hitter ax fighter like maybe Hector from the first FE that came overseas to the US. That way the game that started it all for us gets someone in the roster.
Actually Prince Innes from Sacred Stones and a manakete (Nowi, Nah, Tiki) from Awakening are on the top of my wishlist of FE characters. How cool would it be to have a dedicated archer in here? He should not be about projectile spam though...
 

osby

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I know right? They should have given Chrom and Lucina purple hair, make them different from Ike and Marth. Like I know they're supposed to be related but come on, Awakening's how many years after Marth's games? Surely the hair color could have changed by then.

Edit: Wait a minute...the hair color HAS changed by then! Chrom has two sisters and they're both blonde! Okay now there's no excuse to not make those two purpleheads or greenheads.
Guys, Link needs black or brown hair! I know all Links are descendants of one but come on, there are centuries between them, it's ridiculous!
 

Luigifan18

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I think people often just don't like to admit their losses are partly their own fault.
This is the scrub mentality. Any who exhibit this mentality are no longer eligible for serious debate.
 

channel_KYX

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This is the scrub mentality. Any who exhibit this mentality are no longer eligible for serious debate.
But, but...
It's so much easier to blame the opponent than analysing my own mistakes (because I never make any).
 

Opossum

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Actually Prince Innes from Sacred Stones and a manakete (Nowi, Nah, Tiki) from Awakening are on the top of my wishlist of FE characters. How cool would it be to have a dedicated archer in here? He should not be about projectile spam though...
Plus if Innes got in, Xander Mobus would simultaneously voice him, the announcer, and Joker. :p
 

Baby_Sneak

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25 is impractical though, why not 10.
Pardon me, what do you mean when by a 25 winstreak. Is this quickplay? Arenas? Locals? Something else?
the matches you do, the stronger the data. you have more chances to play against strong players the more you play. 10 matches is a super small sample. I would honestly recommend a higher number like 70 or 100, but nobody is gonna spend that much time, especially with lag causing some matches to be ambiguous.

when I talked about a 25 win-streak, I'm talking in any setting (that's competitive of course). It's better to do it in locals because of the lack of lag, but you could account for that variable and play more matches online.
 

Team Orchid

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Guys, Link needs black or brown hair! I know all Links are descendants of one but come on, there are centuries between them, it's ridiculous!
I mean Zelda had brown hair in one of her incarnations and Link had pink hair in LTTP and ditched the iconic tunic in BOTW so I feel a change in hair color wouldn't be out of the question for him. It's a hell of a design challenge though and risks making the fanboys real made, so it's not one I'd blame Nintendo for not doing.
 

osby

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I mean Zelda had brown hair in one of her incarnations and Link had pink hair in LTTP and ditched the iconic tunic in BOTW so I feel a change in hair color wouldn't be out of the question for him. It's a hell of a design challenge though and risks making the fanboys real made, so it's not one I'd blame Nintendo for not doing.
it was sarcasm
 

TheDuke54

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Actually Prince Innes from Sacred Stones and a manakete (Nowi, Nah, Tiki) from Awakening are on the top of my wishlist of FE characters. How cool would it be to have a dedicated archer in here? He should not be about projectile spam though...
I don't know how they would make an archer without them being primarily an archer lol. Which would make them all projectile based spam. I do like the idea...maybe they could have a dagger for close combat. That still wouldn't help with them being based on arrow projectiles.
 

Idon

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I don't know how they would make an archer without them being primarily an archer lol. Which would make them all projectile based spam. I do like the idea...maybe they could have a dagger for close combat. That still wouldn't help with them being based on arrow projectiles.
Or just smack em with the bow or punch em. Like Ike's jab is straight up just a straight jab.
 

TheDuke54

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Well damn, that does sound like a good idea. Just hit em like its a banjo lol. It's so obvious and I didn't even think of it.
 

channel_KYX

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I don't know how they would make an archer without them being primarily an archer lol. Which would make them all projectile based spam. I do like the idea...maybe they could have a dagger for close combat. That still wouldn't help with them being based on arrow projectiles.
I actually had a partial moveset in mind.

Forward smash could be a two-hitter similar to Link's: A strike with the bow, a dynamic 360°, then an arrow shot.
Neutral B could be the bow aka spam.
Down B a heel slide (like Belmont/Bayo), then a shot with an arrow (maybe diagonal upward?).
Jab a three hit strike like Ike, just with a bow.

You can go watch the overwatch cinematic "dragons" and check how Hanzo fights, already gives some nice moves.
 
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RepStar

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the matches you do, the stronger the data. you have more chances to play against strong players the more you play. 10 matches is a super small sample. I would honestly recommend a higher number like 70 or 100, but nobody is gonna spend that much time, especially with lag causing some matches to be ambiguous.

when I talked about a 25 win-streak, I'm talking in any setting (that's competitive of course). It's better to do it in locals because of the lack of lag, but you could account for that variable and play more matches online.
And if i do..this will somehow prove that swordies take no ****ing skill and are advantaged characters with "disjointed" hitboxes thats OK to everyone. I mean imagine a sword character being in street fighter with the same frama data. But in smash bros they have projectiles and a ****ing counter but yet "spacing is difficult" . why does a long range character need a counter? Isnt that a fighter/brawler move? I mean, wtf.
 

Swamp Sensei

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And if i do..this will somehow prove that swordies take no ****ing skill and are advantaged characters with "disjointed" hitboxes thats OK to everyone. I mean imagine a sword character being in street fighter with the same frama data.
Street Fighter is a game that's built on disjoints.
LMAO, you'd hate Rolento and Falke.
 

RepStar

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Street Fighter is a game that's built on disjoints.
LMAO, you'd hate Rolento and Falke.
What street fighter are you even talking about. Falke is not in IV. and in IV, how many swords(poles, whatever) were that game again? Atleast rolento frames were predictable and sucked. They werent lightning fast with a poking range. Rolento if i remember, didnt do much damage either.
 

Baby_Sneak

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And if i do..this will somehow prove that swordies take no ****ing skill and are advantaged characters with "disjointed" hitboxes thats OK to everyone. I mean imagine a sword character being in street fighter with the same frama data. But in smash bros they have projectiles and a ****ing counter but yet "spacing is difficult" . why does a long range character need a counter? Isnt that a fighter/brawler move? I mean, wtf.
It wouldn't prove anything, but it would become evidence for your claim. and the bigger the number, the stronger. and browny points for getting involved in local tournies.

quick question, if you did a lucina ditto against a strong player, would she still take no skill?
 

RepStar

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It wouldn't prove anything, but it would become evidence for your claim. and the bigger the number, the stronger. and browny points for getting involved in local tournies.

quick question, if you did a lucina ditto against a strong player, would she still take no skill?

Thats a weird question because u could get 2 newbies to play lucina and the outcome would be random. Mirror matches dont measure skill with the character because i use my main to fight other characters not my main himself. If i lose a mirror match, that same player i lost to may lose against other characters/opponents that i could beat.
So to answer your question, yes.
 

Baby_Sneak

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Thats a weird question because u could get 2 newbies to play lucina and the outcome would be random. Mirror matches dont measure skill with the character because i use my main to fight other characters not my main himself. If i lose a mirror match, that same player i lost to may lose against other characters/opponents that i could beat.
So to answer your question, yes.
the bold doesn't make sense in response to what I said. two newbies would turn the entire game into a luck-based one where everything has a lack of a skill requirement. But, that's not reality. Reality is playing against a player who has a solid understanding of the game mechanics and his/her character and their MUs, and uses that knowledge to defeat you.

Mirror matches happen, and when you talk about a character not taking skill, what do you mean by that? i bring up you vs a strong player in a lucina ditto, because it directly counters the idea of a character taking no skill. What does it mean for a character to not take skill? and since this is a fighting game, which characters can she be braindead against? and how would you know (you really played against 70 other characters with top tier players behind them)?

It literally doesn't make sense to say a character takes no skill when playing against other players, no matter how broken or overpowered they are.
 

RepStar

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the bold doesn't make sense in response to what I said. two newbies would turn the entire game into a luck-based one where everything has a lack of a skill requirement. But, that's not reality. Reality is playing against a player who has a solid understanding of the game mechanics and his/her character and their MUs, and uses that knowledge to defeat you.

Mirror matches happen, and when you talk about a character not taking skill, what do you mean by that? i bring up you vs a strong player in a lucina ditto, because it directly counters the idea of a character taking no skill. What does it mean for a character to not take skill? and since this is a fighting game, which characters can she be braindead against? and how would you know (you really played against 70 other characters with top tier players behind them)?

It literally doesn't make sense to say a character takes no skill when playing against other players, no matter how broken or overpowered they are.
I give up, youre right. Honestly.
 

MalanoMan

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I would say all the Fire Emblem fighters except Robin and all the Links would apply for swordies/swordy? I see that the OP just listed all the FE fighters, but the Links pretty much use their sword as their main weapon to land successful kills. Yes they use projectiles, but those can't land any decisive kills until someone is at 300%. Least I never tried to rake up enough damage so my experience is just from SD.
I agree with this definition too. Refers to the sword wielding FE characters. Links definitely slide into the category, but their play style with projectiles is so different that they really aren't "swordies"
 
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