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Legend of Zelda SWF's Legend of Zelda

Ganonsburg

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Lol, well Link's Awakening sort of did that. They had Mario enemies in it. We could do that, too. It would be interesting.

As for Ganonsburg's idea, I really like it, but I'm not sure if we can work dungeons into it, but I sort of have a solution that probably a lot wouldn't like.

Okay, so Hyrule attacks Termina because they don't believe in the gods and they refuse to. Hyrule thinks that the gods would be greatful for their actions. Link has to go to the Sacred Realm to confront the gods and tell them whats up. Link has to find the three keys that will teleport him to the Sacred Realm. While there, he has to go through a series of dungeons to reach the gods. When he does...

and that's all I have.

EDIT: Ninjaaaaa'd!
Oooooh, I like where you're taking this. I don't know about how many dungeons would need to be assigned in whichever place, but when Link gets to the gods, it turns out that they don't like what Hyrule has done. Then Link has to appease them or something.

That's one direction we could take it, but as for dungeons in my original idea we could say that Link needs to destroy the portal or whatever that links the worlds, and to do so there's something in the dungeons that needs to be obtained or turned on or placed etc that would destroy the bonds for good.

Or if we want them to find peace, we could make the castles and towns dungeon-like, and Link needs to go in and kidnap the mayors/kings and bring them to a summit to work out their differences (or something like that, maybe deliver a peace letter or something). This one is a bit harder for me to think on.

:034:
 

X1-12

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I wasn't gonna take part in this but I kinda changed my mind so I'll just jump in at the most recent bit

kidnap the mayors/kings and bring them to a summit to work out their differences (or something like that, maybe deliver a peace letter or something). This one is a bit harder for me to think on.

:034:


Kidnap? not sure about that - doesn't seem to fit with Zelda

also 'working out differences' sounds so cheesy ('corny?')
 

Ganonsburg

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I wasn't gonna take part in this but I kinda changed my mind so I'll just jump in at the most recent bit





Kidnap? not sure about that - doesn't seem to fit with Zelda

also 'working out differences' sounds so cheesy ('corny?')
Haha, I agree. I also don't like that part of the idea (the dungeons for peaceful resolution) because if the town are made dungeons, then the people would probably lose some humanity that the game is really trying to add.

It's probably obvious, but I'm far more interested in the severance of ties between the worlds. That's so much more dramatic, and losing something always makes stuff interesting, like how Link lost Midna in TP and such.

:034:
 

Lore

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I'll probably save my "origins of the world" plot for another project. I would prefer to use it after SS is released so I can build an origin from that.

Here's a good beginning to the game, based on Ganonsburg's idea.

Link is already on a quest to stop the Stalfos king (who is forming a huge army), and he has to go into several dungeons to destroy the king's sources of power. After the second dungeon (and a lot of foreshadowing), tensions between Termina and Hyrule cause them to go to war.

Link has to continue his quest, but he also has to try to stop the war.

Or if we want them to find peace, we could make the castles and towns dungeon-like, and Link needs to go in and kidnap the mayors/kings and bring them to a summit to work out their differences (or something like that, maybe deliver a peace letter or something). This one is a bit harder for me to think on.
Instead of working out differences, how about this? It's a little rough, but I like it.

Link realizes that the only way to end the war (after tons of questing, fighting against both sides, going into dungeons, etc) is to kill the power hungry king of Hyrule and put the king's good son on the throne.

He has a huge battle with soldiers, wizards, etc, and then he tries to fight the king. The king pulls out a sword, has a sword fight with Link, and tries to escape on horseback after he loses. You have an epic chase, and it ends near a bunch of ruins.

The king runs into the ruins, and you follow him. There, he stabs his sword into the ground and summons the Stalfos king, the last living (if you can call it that) stalfos.

The Hyrule king (who has been generally hostile to Link throughout the game) reveals that he has been planning to take over Termina for a long time, and he originally planned to use the Stalfos to do it. However, Link mistook the Stalfos for a threat to Hyrule, and started to destroy them.

The king forces the Stalfos king (who is in pain from a large collar around his neck) to close his ribcage around the Hyrule king and protect him. This forces Link to kill the Stalfos king and drive the Stalfos to extinction in order to stop the threat to the world.

As the Hyrule king is laying on the ground, Link pierces his head with an arrow.

However, some soldiers (comedic relief minor characters who had been hiding behind a rock the whole time after seeing the Stalfos king appear) suddenly appear and conclude that Link was using the Stalfos the whole time and that he used them to help him kill the king. They try to arrest Link, but he easily escapes.

The scene changes to a year later...

A huge bandit camp is attacked by a man with a Stalfos mask. He easily destroys the entire camp, and they all swear, while the mysterious man points an crossbow bolt at each of them, to never steal again. The man takes off his mask, revealing Link's face.

After that, Link, the last Stalfos, says his first line in the history of Zelda:

"Good."


The Legend of Zelda: The Last Stalfos
 

X1-12

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I think a game like that would be cool, because rather than having Link going on to fight one specific person who's hellbent on controlling the world, he's preventing two whole nations from completely crippling themselves. The game would be about the people that you interact with, even moreso than MM was. You would be saving these people from themselves, rather than some faceless enemy (faceless to the people, I mean).
This also sounds like it could have brilliant sidequests, as interlinked as Kafei + Anju in MM but with people on different sides of the split etc. Perhaps there could also be restraints into when you can/can't cross between the two?

The final boss could be that someone (Ganon?) was bringing the worlds together in order to start conflict. but after he dies they seperate and peace returns.. not sure about this though
 

Dragoon Fighter

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I wish to try to have a co-op in this game and make it up to four players, but I wish every person to have a different chareter with different abilitiys not just four links.
 

X1-12

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Reading Werekill's post seems like totally different kind of story to all the zelda's I've played, is this good or bad? I would personally like to stick kinda close to the tried and tested zelda formula
 

Lore

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Reading Werekill's post seems like totally different kind of story to all the zelda's I've played, is this good or bad? I would personally like to stick kinda close to the tried and tested zelda formula
I personally think that Zelda needs a fresh plot, but that's just me.

What did you think about the idea itself?
 

X1-12

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I like the plot, its good but It feels like the plot of an action film or something. And games that try to be films don't go well (FFXIII)
 

Kingdom Come

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I haven't read anything in this thread since I posted.

But what about an Idea for a war. The Gerudo King (Not Ganondorf) declares war on Hyrule. And, you have to go gather each tribe to try and help you as they are all possessed by the powers of the Gerudo King. With a big *** war scene.
 

Ganonsburg

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Werekill, I feel like I should comment on your original idea because no one really did, and I haven't been able to think of something to say about it until now.

It's a really different idea, which is why it took me so long and which is why, I think, most people haven't taken notice of it. The idea is just too revolutionary for us to really be comfortable with. Also, it reminds me oddly of Lego's Bionicle line, haha. It's just all really complex.

As to The Last Stalfos idea, but it seems a bit too focused on Hyrule, whereas the original idea was to be about both Hyrule and Termina. There's nothing wrong with it, but I wanted to point it out. The plot actually has elements of a Zelda game, but it breaks the mold enough to be interesting.

I'm going to let more people comment before I comment further.

:034:
 

Clownbot

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If it's going to be Hyrule vs. Termina, why not two antagonists from each end working together? Maybe Ganondorf on Hyrule's side and... Majora? Fierce Deity?
I'm sort of skimming recent posts so sorry if this goes against anything that's been decided on =P

@Dragoon Fighter: Wouldn't mind Link having a brother, although I'm not too keen on the name. How were you planning on working him in?

EDIT: Also, I'm less fond of the idea now, but for the record my "Dark Link" part of the story involved a boy similar to Link who thought he was the true Hero yet ended up being cursed by the Goddesses/Sages for his arrogance, which transformed him into Dark Link.
 

Spire

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Why do you all care so much about these dark story-heavy Zelda games? Why does Zelda have to be dark? Why does it have to include Termina or some relation to Majora's Mask? Try and think more outside the box, try and think new. You guys seem to have this fancy for making stories to tie the games together. The point is to take the archetypal elements of Zelda and make something new and unique with them.

If anything, just avoid what would blatantly be seen as fan-fiction. Design a prompt that could be a game.
 

Ganonsburg

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Why do you all care so much about these dark story-heavy Zelda games? Why does Zelda have to be dark? Why does it have to include Termina or some relation to Majora's Mask? Try and think more outside the box, try and think new. You guys seem to have this fancy for making stories to tie the games together. The point is to take the archetypal elements of Zelda and make something new and unique with them.

If anything, just avoid what would blatantly be seen as fan-fiction. Design a prompt that could be a game.
Well, as far as story-heavy goes, because we're not actually developing a game, we can't really design the game mechanics first, nor is there really need to. But if we get the bare-bones story, we can start talking about dungeons and such. Maybe I should read the last thread a bit to see how you guys did it last time.

@Clownbot, I don't think the enemy (enemies) should be ones we've had before, if we're going with the Hyrule and Termina idea. The whole Ganon-Majora's Mask teaming up/combined thing never appealed to me, even in the other thread where someone brought it up.

Hey, what do people think of the boss mode thing I suggested on the first page? Good? Bad? Silly?

:034:
 

Dragoon Fighter

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I am just going to toss this out here and this post is unrelated to most of the things discussed. You noticed in TP how when you travel back in time back the temple of times former glory you noticed the master sword is not there. Why? it is almost always in the stone. Unless it is being used in that period of time. that would mean for a short period of time there where two hero's sent by the goddesses in the same time. Though it would be really silly to have them working together scene that never happens in TP, But the link of our game could (for some reason) go back to the temple of time realize that though stairs leading to the window were not there before goes though. Realizes some one else was here and find the portal to the sacred realm (witch if I remember is somewhere in the temple of time.) and there the semi-mysteries temple of Light is now a playable dungeon. Sorry if that is off topic and/or a bad Idea. :(
 

Clownbot

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I was just using those as examples, Ganonsburg. The main part of my suggestion was for there to be two major antagonists working on the opposing sides, but it's alright if you guys would prefer a single main antagonist.

As for Boss Mode, I'm all for it. I'm not sure if it needs to be built into the main game like the "Fortune Teller" idea but it would be a cool feature either way.
 

Ganonsburg

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I was just using those as examples, Ganonsburg. The main part of my suggestion was for there to be two major antagonists working on the opposing sides, but it's alright if you guys would prefer a single main antagonist.

As for Boss Mode, I'm all for it. I'm not sure if it needs to be built into the main game like the "Fortune Teller" idea but it would be a cool feature either way.
Yeah, the fortune teller was just one way of making it make sense in the story, but it could definitely just be placed separately, like how PH and ST had the different modes. I just wanted an opinion while Spire was talking about non-story stuff.

I don't think two main antagonists would be a bad thing. In fact, if we were to go with the duality of it all, it would be a perfect opportunity to introduce multiplayer (specifically co-op), where one protagonist was from one world and the other protagonist was from the other. The only problem with that is that we'd either have to make a new protagonist to represent Termina, or use someone we've seen before who acted as Termina's hero (which we don't really know of, and even if we did it it would be as bad as the Ganon + MM duo).

:034:
 

Lore

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I like the plot, its good but It feels like the plot of an action film or something. And games that try to be films don't go well (FFXIII)
What? I actually enjoyed FFXIII.

Werekill, I feel like I should comment on your original idea because no one really did, and I haven't been able to think of something to say about it until now.

It's a really different idea, which is why it took me so long and which is why, I think, most people haven't taken notice of it. The idea is just too revolutionary for us to really be comfortable with. Also, it reminds me oddly of Lego's Bionicle line, haha. It's just all really complex.

As to The Last Stalfos idea, but it seems a bit too focused on Hyrule, whereas the original idea was to be about both Hyrule and Termina. There's nothing wrong with it, but I wanted to point it out. The plot actually has elements of a Zelda game, but it breaks the mold enough to be interesting.

I'm going to let more people comment before I comment further.

:034:
Yeah, the original idea is a little different, but I was planning to rewrite it so that it wasn't post-future (technology) ancient Hyrule.

Yeah, I don't really see the need for Termina at all. I just put it in there so that someone would read it.

Why does it have to include Termina or some relation to Majora's Mask?
I only put it into my new idea because it was the only way that anyone would read it. :ohwell: What do you think of it, Spire?

Oh, and I might not be helping out much on this project. Why?

I haven't read anything in this thread since I posted.
I am just going to toss this out here and this post is unrealated to most of the things disscussed. You noticed in TP how when you traval back in time back the temple of times formor glory you noticed the master sword is not there. Why? it is almost always in the stone. Unless it is being used in that period of time. that whould mean for a short period of time there where two hero's sent by the godesses in the same time. Though it would be really silly to have them working together sence that never happens in TP, But the link of our game could (for some reason) go back to the temple of time relize that thoughs stairs leading to the window were not there before goes thourgh. Relizes some one else was here and find the portal to the sacred realm (witch if I remeber is somewere in the temple of time.) and there the semi-mysteries temple of Light is now a playible dungeon. Sorry if that is off topic and/or a bad Idea.
^People like this. Is it too much to ask for people to read the thread or use basic grammar/spelling?
 

Ganonsburg

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Yeah, I honestly didn't read that block that you quoted for the same reason you don't like it.

As for the Termina issue, my original post concerning it said, "If we're going to use Termina" (something like that, I'm not quoting verbatim). I just didn't want something that was basically just a huge rehash of everything we've already seen.

So, does anyone have anything that they've been wanting share?

:034:
 

Lore

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Cool.

I just thought of something for the The Last Stalfos idea.

Every time Link destroys one of the "sources of power" he has a vision of a Stalfos (first person and from the Stalfos's perspective). That Stalfos slowly grows up during the visions, and the player starts to feel sympathy for it and the entire Stalfos race.

During the last vision, you watch something possess the Stalfos (dark energy at the edges of the vision, etc), and you find out that the Stalfos is the first Stalfos that Link ever killed. You watch yourself slowly crumble to ash as the vision fades.

Maybe that Stalfos (what IS the singular for Stalfos anyway?) was forced to kill one of Link's friends, and he destroyed it in a fit of rage?
 

Kingdom Come

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Okay, fresh Idea.......

Beginning

Link is attending some sort of parade in Castle Town for his friend Princess Zelda. Link is considered a top knight and a personal bodyguard for Zelda, even though they are just really good friend. Stumbles into some sort of magician. Magician gets pissed off, and transports Link into a different land.

You end up in a big village with many people. The people here are all primitive. You were sent back in time. But this isn't Hyrule. The Tribe elder tells you about a sacred item that was split into pieces when he was a boy. He tells you about the dungeons that hold the pieces.


Quest

This new land you have to fight through 3 dinosaur themed dungeons to gain a parts of a sacred door, yes a door, that can take you anywhere. Any place in time, Any land, and at any time. You get 3 pieces but you are still missing one piece. You go to the tribe elder after you gain these 3 pieces and he tells you one was sent into the future...... You can't go into the future though. So he basically tells you there is nothing that can be done.

Well as you wander around doing whatever. You happen to trigger a scene where....Guess who? Kotake and Koume or Tingle happen to appear where you are and tell you they are traveling through time trying to get artifacts for their collection. If you give them 3 dinosaur skulls they will take you to another land. You give them the 3 boss heads and boom another land.

Now, your in a frozen tundra. There are 3 igloos, a Zora, 3 Goron brothers, and a female scientist all are here trying to figure out the origin of "The Great Crater". You go explore the Crater and find the final piece of the door. You also discover this is the same land as before. That you went into the future of the same land. A meteorite destroyed everything and caused a great ice storm. These are the only survivors. The Zora evolved from the fish. The Gorons evolved from the dinosaurs and the scientist is still human.

You assemble the door and say good-bye. Your back in Hyrule. Your inside the Castle. You start to walk down the grand hall until you hear screaming. It's Zelda! AND THE MAGICIAN FROM EARLIER!!!!!!

The magician from earlier unveils himself. He is a skeleton man (not a stalfos). He calls himself Skullord. He admits that he was looking for Link to send him to another land so he could get the Triforce and Zelda all for himself. He then goes back in time to the first land. You go through the door and follow him.

End

You go back to the original village to find everybody is scared of "The Great Crater". The chief and his men went to the top of the mountain to the Earth Temple. You fight through and kill a Giant Armadillo boss. Once you get to the top you find the Tribe Elder sacrificed his men for his own immortality and that you are too late and have to go to the next land. Cut scene.

You see the Tribe elder making a speech in his village. He tells about how he has a plan for his people. He has become immortal and will bring his people back to life when he gets the power. He is crying and very distraught. This line absolutetly must be in the game....."For now.....I have failed you.....But if there is a future...Together we WILL see the light....of.....d-" then there is a great flash.

Back to Link. He is visually shocked by what he saw. The Gorons and the Zora are looking for the scientist. Where could she be? A strange man appeared and she took off with him voluntarily. You go back to the Crater. And fight off a Sabre Tooth Tiger who has the scientist captive.

She tells you of an evil being that has taken all of her findings. You find an old man.....Talking to himself maniacally. He tells you his name is Skullord, and that was the name handed down to the village chief of his tribe. He was the last Skullord before his tribe was wiped out by the crater. This clearly isn't the Skullord that took Zelda. He asks you where your from. Hyrule? He has never heard of this. "Here, Let me show you my magic!!!!" you fight him and defeat him with ease. But, before you put the final blow in him......... You hear the scientist scream.......You then turn to see her AND Zelda. Skullord tells you that you now know what he has been through, and this will happen to Hyrule. He walks over to the Skullord that you just fought. He absorbs him.

He then tells you the triforce will save his people, and Zelda will be his queen and to just stand aside you are the only evil. You battle. After you defeat him Zelda tells you that though his intentions were good his heart was growing weaker and weaker and he lost sight of his original mission.

You save the scientist and return to Hyrule. You get to watch and enjoy the parade. It's as if time froze while you were gone. After the parade you see Zelda lock the door and walk away.........

.......



.......





........


So what do you think?????
 

Clownbot

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Go ahead, Spire. If you don't want to influence the project too much in your favor that doesn't mean you have to keep from contributing. No need to hold back if you want to give some ideas of your own. :p
 

Masky

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I actually kind of liked werekill's post. And I want to hear Spire's ideas.

@Kingdom Come: There is no ancient past or anything like that to Hyrule, the gods just created it lol
 

Spire

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I like Werekill's general idea. It's kind of an expansion of the Igos du Ikana concept. I'll say that the story may need some reworking so that it feels more like Zelda, but the concept is bold.

I'm preparing my post at this time, so I'll have it up soonish.
 

Lore

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I like Werekill's general idea. It's kind of an expansion of the Igos du Ikana concept. I'll say that the story may need some reworking so that it feels more like Zelda, but the concept is bold.
Yeah, it's a very rough idea. I would love to see it taken further.

I'll wait to expand on my "world origins" idea until SS comes out.
 

Kingdom Come

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I don't like the Idea of going back to Termina tbh.

I want something fresh, something new. I didn't like my idea too much after reading it through again. But, it's different. That's what I did like about it. We need to do something different about Zelda. New villain give him depth. Give him a reason to fight for what he believes. Make him the good guy and Link the bad guy in his eyes. Bring in a major character with some personality. That's what I like about TP they brought in new character and gave them an indepth connection to the main character and the plot. Zant, Illia, and Midna that is.
 

Spire

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Why does there have to be some big bad foe? Link is the destined hero to save Hyrule, a world endangered not just by villainous individuals, but by the elements of nature. Link needs an impetus: what is at stake? Is it a princess? Is it his home village and the people he grew up with? Is it the country itself? Is it a sacred relic?

I'll say this: we're not going to make a game without Link, nor are we going to make a game where you play as Zelda or Ganondorf. These concepts are expected of fans trying to make a Zelda game because that's the easiest way to make a "different Zelda game".

One thing that comes to mind is a game centered around say... five different characters, Link being one of them. Each sees the world in a different way and experiences an alternate version of the story than the other four. This is taking the concept of a "legend" and how it can be perceived and retold differently by different people. Say one of the characters is a Stalfos, well because the Stalfos is a reanimated skeleton with glowing flames for eyes rather than having biological light-perceiving eyeballs, the world literally looks different to it. A Stalfos was once a living being who died, and because of whatever forces, is once again conscious of the physical realm, though with physical limitations and differences than it had in life. A Stalfos would naturally see the world for its living and dying characteristics, so those full of life would stand out more, lush forests would appear far more fruitful, and barren lands, graveyards, the dead, wounded, and dying would all stand out more as the Stalfos would feel more akin with these things. A Stalfos is a somewhat living organism, yet not living enough, so it would—by its reinvented nature—seek out life to feed on. Through a Stalfos' lantern-like eyes, imagine everything in higher contrast where life is far more saturated and death far less saturated, yet in a homely sepia sense, rather than dry and fearsome. Also imagine on the edges of the screen a sort of gaseous film overlaying and stretching vision, showing what it's like to see through these dead, flames of eyes.

What if the conflict of this game is how playing as these five characters actually distorts your perception of what's really happening as you experience it in five variations. The "foe" is not a tyrannical warlord, it's not an earthbound moon, it's your own mentality. You want to understand a concrete truth in the lore behind the world of the game, but you can't. When playing as Link, you play through the typical 'hero saves the world' kind of Zelda feel because he's a naive, straightforward kind of guy, but when playing as the other characters, you experience this world through different personalities and physical manifestations (as they differ in species and such). Now Watchmen comes to mind in that we possess each one of them in us and that they are all personifications of different human mentalities. Well take that and apply it to Zelda.

Also, I am not advocating some sort of RPG where these five characters work together in some way. In fact, I'd rather they have nothing to do with one another, yet each experiences the story on their own as if the others don't even exist in each reality (or pseudo-reality).
 

Ganonsburg

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Also, I am not advocating some sort of RPG where these five characters work together in some way. In fact, I'd rather they have nothing to do with one another, yet each experiences the story on their own as if the others don't even exist in each reality (or pseudo-reality).
Ah, so maybe we'd have the "main," classic Zelda storytelling kind of thing with Link, where he starts out in his village and goes to save the princess (just as an example, to make sure I have this right). It would feel almost no different than the other Zelda games from Link's perspective, because all the other games have likewise been from his perspective. So he starts out on his adventure, and then he gets to a point and we switch to another character.

We see from this character (maybe the Stalfos you were mentioning) that prior to Link setting out, this character has a problem. It may be that he wants to discover his purpose in life, or avenge a loved one, or maybe he has amnesia and needs to recover his memory, but this sets him out wandering trying to accomplish his completely separate goal. As he goes, we might see in the background of a cutscene that Link is walking to the first temple (for the sake of knowing when events in the game are happening in relation to each other), but the two characters probably don't see each other and even if they do, they don't meet up with each other.

Maybe two characters may pass each other in castle town, or end up at the same bar and briefly talk, but they never meet because of their missions and nor do they become aware of the missions. They just interact with each other as they would with any other person.

It sounds cool, and it would definitely allow us to get to know the world of Hyrule better (and require better NPCs). OH! You know how in Majora's the people would react differently to each of your forms? That would probably apply here as well. And having multiple characters would allow for multiplayer if we chose.

:034:
 

Tacel

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I think that it would actually be a lot more interesting if the five character's stories intersect somehow, though it might be briefly.

Like Ganonsburg said, Link could be going to the first temple with the Stalfos being in the area. Well, I think that instead of them never meeting, the Stalfos could go up to Link to ask for help. When your playing as Link and your on your journey to the first temple, you come upon a Stalfos. No biggy. A couple slashes and it's dead. You can now move on with your life. When your playing as the Stalfos, you tap Link on the shoulderto ask for help, and Link turns around, finally noticing the Stalfos. In Link's perspective, the Stalfos is a threatening beast, and wants Link's blood to be shed, but in our evolved perspective (from us playing as the Stalfos), the Stalfos is just a harmless wanderer who needs some help. The turn out is that Link kills the Stalfos and (when playing as the Stalfos) you move on to the playing as the next character (or whatever should happen / ex. Coming back to life later since it's undead).

The result is that you now have sympathy for a creature that you once murdered without a second thought.
 

Clownbot

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
1,851
Does each character have a separate mode? Or are they all played as under a single run?

Let's say one of these playable characters is a young Deku Scrub. The Scrub is small, it's more used to its environment than the rest of the world outside, and it's too little to even understand much of it, so naturally it might be a bit fearful of a lot of the big, bad stuff out there. It sees the world as bigger and darker, and full to the brim with danger. Most living creatures are viewed as a threat, but not many of them is he willing to fight.

I was wondering how OOC this could potentially be for a Deku Scrub, given that in most/all games they appear in they interact with Link somehow. Keep in mind that this Scrub is young, and hasn't interacted with other species, let alone many others of his own kind.

Yes? No? Maybe?
 

#HBC | ZoZo

Shocodoro Blagshidect
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Messages
9,801
Location
Land of Nether
me and spired talked about a game where darklink is the main character, corrupting the lands. I said I could do it with the NES engine but I guess I'll never get around to it, so /shrug.
 
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