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Currently 10 (Came into existence this voting period)41 (+5)51 (-14)19 (-6)52 (-9)5 (Came into existence this period)18 (Ditto)54 (-10)20 (+1)1 (+6)29 (-7)44 (-3)47 (-8)48 (-18)8 (+1)55 (-4)16 (+9)24 (-8)57 (-10)39 (-5)50 (-10)42 (-11)22 (+1)26 (Same position)35 (+7)25 (-8)6 (-1)27 (+5)28 (+1)13 (-2)11 (+38: dayum gurl)45 (-7)14 (-4)34 (-10)32 (-12)49 (-4)31 (-12)15 (-12)21 (-3)36 (No change)3 (+1)53 (-25:He dropped off harder in viability than in his own damn game)9 (-1)38 (+12)2 (-1)46 (-13)7 (-1)17 (+10)12 (+2)33 (-18)37 (-2)23 (-11)56 (-4)4 (-2)30 (+18)40 (+13)43 (+11)This is pretty awesome. Props to you for putting it all together.Because I'm bored and still have time before I need to go to work, I figured I should list by how much each character moved up/down from version 2.0. With 3 new characters coming in, the numbers may be skewed a bit but I think this should show was has really changed and what hasn't. (Also I don't know how to spoiler tag this haha)
. dropped off the hardest.
Voting is over. You're too slow!+3
+1
-1
This is what I think. It's not my votes just what I think should've been changed. Diddy isn't the best and Roy isn't that bad. Also pika is way better.
There's a reason why he's considered one of the worst Lords in FE history.also lol, R.I.P.
moving up that much. He's about exactly where he belongs now.andbeing absolutely too low and tier 1 being kind of a mess, this list turned out pretty well.
could have stood to be higher, but other than that, I don't know if I would change anything else.
was placed so high. I mean, this makes me happy for sure, just thought he would end up lower on the list.
I think he should've been higher, actually. ZeRo placed him 2nd place, which seems pretty accurate to me. I suppose we'll see if Cloud ends up getting some more notable results before the next round (assuming 1.1.7 doesn't nerf him before that).I think the thing that surprised me most was that
He ended up so low because people found out how to fight him after like a week.
Will people please stop voting? The list says "COMPLETE" for a reason.
()
beginning to win so much stuff. is somewhat of an outlier here considering his very impressive results in Japan and even here in America thanks to the efforts of players such as DunnoBro and DandyPenguin. does a lot for the purported dysfunctional mess she's claimed to be. Her placing so well (top 16 in many regionals and majors whenever her mains attend) in recent several months along with being shown to perform well in many higher tiered matchups convince me to put her at this spot.) have even managed to net some quite decent results at large tournaments. Despite that they still suffer from various negative aspects in their character build, such as a lackluster neutral, frame data, mobility, or reliable killing ability. would be last.
():Bayonetta seems fine. Perhaps below Mewtwo:Bowser's spot is I guess ok, I would put him only 2 spots lower.:I think Bowser Jr. should be a little higher, although this is a problem of some characters being too high.:Captain Falcon seems a little too high. He has a few bad weaknesses and a garbage Pikachu matchup. I think he should be a few spots lower.:I think Charizard is too low, Although, like Bowser Jr., this is mostly a matter of some characters being too high.:I thought everyone except the top Diddy mains established that the top 3 in this game is in whatever order? Geez. Cloud should defitenly be 3rd, above Rosalina and Zero Suit Samus. Then he would be fine.:Corrin in no way should be in tier 4. He's either tier 5 or tier 6. He has virtually no results and NO solo results at all except for ONE japanease result. His theory isn't even this good anyway. I can't see Corrin being useful in the metagame outside of a counterpick character for whatever matchup.: Read Pit's section below.:Correct, I agree that he is #1 again.:Donkey Kong's spot is correct.:Dr. Mario is defitenly overrated by lower leveled players. Dr. Mario isn't useless trash, but he is still bad and defitenly bottom 12. Lack of mobilty and 4th worst recovery really screws him over. I would put him where Little Mac, Bowser Jr, and Charizard (Probably Little Mac's):Duck Hunt I think is too low. He has great specials and projectiles, good aierals, a good dash attack, jab, and forward tilt, a good neutral, and a pretty good matchup spread. He also has AMAZING results in japan and pretty good results in canada and usa too. People also really treat his flaws worse then they actually are. I personally think Duck Hunt should be in the bottom of tier 6.:He's fine where he is. Although he should be above Link and Dr. Mario, they're too high anyway so...:Fox is fine where he is, although I think he should be above Mario and possibly Zero Suit Samus (But not Sonic, since he needs to rise too):Ganon's spot is fine, apart from that Jigglypuff should be above him.:Greninja is fine, although Toon Link should be above him.:Ike seems a little high, i think he should be at the top of tier 5.:Now, I know I am gonna get hate for this......... but Jigglypuff shoudn't be last. He should be fourth from last tbh, and she gets above bottom 5 when Miis are 1111 honestly. And I think she has a lot of hidden potential to grow, although this is irrelevant to current Jigglypuff. This is what I think about her currently. People don't know anything about her, outside of her mains and the random person who somehow knows.:Dedede's spot is fine, apart from that Jigglypuff should be above him.:Kirby's spot is fine, I guess Mii Gunner should be above him but otherwise it's perfect. And I rarely see people place Kirby almost perfectly, he's usually too low, and occasionally too high.:Little Mac is kinda hard to place. He could be at his current spot, Bowser Jr's spot, or Charizard's spot. I would probably put him at Charizard's spot though.:Link is so hilariusly overrated, it's hilarious. Link's placement here is essentially factually wrong; he has bad mobility, bad frame data, a pretty bad recovery, many bad moves (such as down tilt and smash), and an absoluty horrendeus matchup spread, alongside probably many more flaws (I've lost track of how many times I've stated his flaws), and his strengths don't really make up for it. The only reason prople don't put him in bottom 10 is because of his fairly good results from Scizor and Izaw. But I personally feel that his flaws keep him in bottom 10 or at least bottom 15 He should be where Bowser Jr. and Charizard are right now.:Lucario seems a little low; He has a pretty good amount of niche top tier matchups and can kill EXTREMELY early with full aura. I think he should be about 4 spots higher.:Lucas is defitenly too high, what is he doing above MEGA MAN, Donkey Kong, Pac-Man, and Peach? Lucas I could see this high theoretically, but I'm not confident that's even accurate enough, it may still be a little too high, plus his results don't match up to that in the slightest. Taiheita is the best Lucas and his results aren't always the best either. He should be right above Kirby.:Lucina's spot is fine. I think she shoudn't be seperated from Marth so much but Marth deserves to be lower so it isn't her spot's problem.:Luigi is a few spots too low; I'd out him about 3 spots higher.:Mario, like Ryu, is kinda odd to place; I personally think he should below Sonic and Fox, although I suppose he could be above Fox too.:Marth is probably even more overrated than Link by this point, honestly. But NO ONE is able to accept the fact that Marth isn't even high tier in this game, and not even top 30. Marth may have top 30 results (albeit most likely just barely) but his theory doesn't quite reach that level, and his matchup spread defitenly isn't top 30 (Even ir he beats Mario; there are many top tiers that beat him by -2 or more. In fact, most of them too. Some high tiers, such as Pac-Man, also beat him -2. There absoluty is no excuse to put Marth in high tier with his flaws and not-that-big amount of strengths. And his matchup chart.:Mega Man's spot is absolute garbage. Mega Man is easily top 20, no argument about it, and most likely even top 15 by this point. Think about it; He has many good projectiles such as metal blade and pellets, and a good combination of normal attacks too, good aerials, espicially back air which is a great KO tool, and up air which is also good, great smashes that have amazing kill power (Apart from side smash, which is good for other reasons), a great up tilt that is also good at KOing, good down tilt, pretty good grabs, including a combo throw and kill throw, he's extremely good at spacing and great at shield pressure (And considering he has a good grab, this actually means something), and has an amazing neutral. This character is so hard to deal with. And then there's the fact that he has a top 10 matchup spread. He is one of Sonic's worst matchups, beating him +2, and is Ryu's worst matchup at the same ratio. He also wins slightly or goes even aganist most of the other top 15 characters/candidates. It should tell you something about his top tier matchups when LUCAS is most likely his worst matchup. From what I've heard, his worst matchups are Sheik, Lucas, and Pika.:Meta's Knight's spot is correct. Although I think he'll fall lower in the future,:Mewtwo I think could be a little higher, above Bayonetta and Villager.:How the heck did he get so low? It may be guest size, but that doesn't make him this low. I would put him probably around Lucario and Yoshi is probably. idk exactatly where, but not this low.:Why is Gunner so low? In guest size, he's about as good as Lucina, Robin, and Wii Fit Trainer; not sure why he's below Samus and Kirby. When he gets all moves, he gets even more great projectiles and spacing because of getting the grenade neutral special (or whatever it's called) and the bomb thing. They both help him become even better, and he has some notable evenish matchups and a good neutral too.:I think Mii Swordfighter might be too low, he should be in tier 6 right below Kirby (He and Kirby are about equally the same in terms of viability) and thus, above Link, Bowser, and Samus (Gunner is also too low):I think Game and Watch is too low, he should be bottom of tier 6 in my opinion due to his great combos, good recovery, great edgeguarding, and his notable matchups aganist higher tiered characters (Such as Pikachu). He is defitenly underrated.:Ness's placement is also perfectly accurate (Except that Mega Man might be above him tbh. Bold statement):Almost correct; I personally think he's better than Wario, but otherwise this is correct.ac-Man is another severe problem with the list. Pac-Man is in no way tier 6; He ahould be in the top of tier 5. Pac-Man has a great matchup spread, good projectiles, good specials, good spacing, good recovery, pretty good aierals, a pretty good jab and dash attack, good down and forward tilt, and pretty good smashes, Pac-Man is severly underrated and way better than this.: Palutena moved up last round, thankfully, but I still think she's a little too low. She defitenly shoudn't be below Falco, Dr. Mario, or Link. Moving her up 3-4 spots would be good.:Same as Donkey Kong's, correct.:Correct.: Pit and Dark Pit are probably a little bit too high, I suppose they should be around where Yoshi is, possibly even lower because the more I look at them, the more lackluster they seem. And their top tier matchups are only getting worse.:I think ROB seems a little too high. He definitely isn't better than Lucario or Yoshi. I personally would put him where Luigi is:Correct. I suppose he could be above Lucina though, but idk.:Rosa's spot is fine. She should be one spot lower though, Cloud is better. Rosa should be in tier 2 as well since I think tier 1 should just be the top 3.: Correct for sure. One of the few characters that I think is perfectly placed, even down to the characters above and below him.:This is pretty much exactatly where I would place him. ZeRo woudn't like it though....:Samus is fine, although imo the miis should be above her.:Correct, I think she is #2 as well behind Diddy:Shulk's spot seems fine, maybe one spot higher.:Sonic's spot is a little too low; I think he should be above Mario and Zero Suit, and that he's top 5:Toon Link's spot is ok I guess. I think he should be in tier 3 right above Greninja.:Villager's spot is almost correct; I think he should be below Mewtwo but otherwise it's correct:Wario's spot is almost correct; I would put him below Olimar but otherwise it's correct.:Correct.:Yoshi seems oddly low. I don't see how he's worse than Corrin, Falcon, Pits, and Rob. He gets pretty good results from The Wall and Raptor (Such as 17th at Pound and 49th at Genesis) and has great aerials, KO power, air mobility, and some good ground attacks such as jab and dash attack. I'd put him like 5 spots higher.:Zelda is worse than Jigglypuff but otherwise correct; idk why people want her higher...... Please tell me it isn't because of her "hoo-hah"........ it is isn't it?:Zero Suit Samus is a hard one to place; I don't think she is in top 5 though (imo top 5 is /) or in tier 1; I think she is in tier 2. I think she would be 7th.) mostly, and the many other little flaws in it too. This list feels like a flawed list basicially.
I agree with this, Mewtwo should probably be above her, but I suppose people weren't willing to spend a wild-card to move her down (or Mewtwo up). I certainly weren't.
Yeah, I placed him at 2nd place, 5th is too low.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, although I'd like to mention that ZeRo placed her in spot 10.
Yeah, perhaps. Marth does have better results though, although I think Lucina's results would've been better if Marth weren't in the game.
I agree with this.
Because people rated them poorly and only a few voted for them in the wild card round. People underestimate XXXX Miis hard.
See Mii Brawler.
See Mii Brawler.
Villager is below Mewtwo though. Look at the first page.
Corrin has ONE good solo resault? Cosmos and Ryuga must have been playing Robin then, MY B... I always mix those silver haired Fe characters up. (The corrin bashing has gone from only good reigonal resaults, to only decent regional resaults, and now to only ONE resault... hooo boy).My personal thoughts about this tier list
The SWF Community voted tier list 3.0
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NOTE THAT THIS IS ALL IN MY OPINION.
For one thing, her matchup spread is nowhere near as bad as people say. Her matchup spread isn't good, but it isn't horrendous like Dedede's is. She goes even aganist some notable characters, like Ness and Falcon. Falcon might actually be a win. She also goes only -1 aganist some other top tiers, such as Diddy. She only has 1-2 -3 matchups, and they're even debatable -2. She actually DOES beat certain characters too, such as WFT and Zelda. Contrary to popular belief, she doesn't lose hard to characters with great knockback; Ganondorf is either even or Puff's favor, not -4 in Ganon's favor. If you believe that is how the matchup is, you need to rethink it through. Why would a good Jigglypuff be getting hit by every single move he inputs?
Additionally, contrary to popular belief, her specials aren't useless. I mean, up and neutral specials are, but not down and side special. I hate it when people say all her specials suck. Pound is pretty good; It's a good shield destroyer, has pretty good damage, and isn't as bad as people say. Rest also isn't useless; it's still a great punish options despite its weaknesses, and helps Puff mains land the KO, especially from confirms into rest (This exists)
Also, contrary to popular belief, her ground game isn't useless; her dash attack is good, it KOs earlier than you think and is a good punishing tool. Jab is also pretty good too; it combos into many moves (Especially if you just use jab 1) and this includes dash attack, which can sometimes kill. Up tilt also has some great combos (Including a combo into rest if you do it correctly) and can also kill you at times.
And then of course, there is her great aerial attacks; Neutral air is very good, it has a ton of combos, is a great edgeguarding tool, and has a long-lasting hitbox; forward air also has combos (Including into rest), has a wall of pain, and, once again, is great for edgeguarding; back air is a great KO move even without the wall of pain, and, once again, is a good edgeguarding tool; Down air is muiti-hit and has a combo into rest; and up air has VERY good priority, has many combos from a fast-falling one and has hard to punish.
Most aerials have great priority and good edgeguarding skills too, and Pound is also usable for edgeguarding. All her aerials except for maybe down air (Not sure on that one) also have good priority too.
Now, don't get me wrong, Jigglypuff is still a bad character with bad weaknesses and really should get buffs, but if you think she is the worst, below ZELDA, I encourage you to watch RDR7 or Serynder play. They're both really good Jigglypuffs who proves that she isn't the worst.
Personally, I would put him where Olimar and Wario are.
And to top it all off, His results 100% support this, if not supporting more! Kameushi is dominating Japan right now with almost just Mega Man (He has a occasional secondary Cloud and a pocket Yoshi) and is the only currently consistant player in Japan. Daiki is also a good Mega Man in Japan getting good results. And then there's also Scatt, who, once again, is getting good results at nationals, such as 13th at Pound.
Mega Man's current spot is an bullet to the head for anyone who knows how this game works.
So yeah, basically, I think this tier list really isn't that good due to many major flaws (Such as
On another note, I like how all you guys are voting RIGHT after it's completed. You serisualy couldn't have come like one day earlier? lol.
Gonna post my tier list later this weekend...
None of them solo main him, and they don't get any good results with them outside of the occasional local. Ryuga's basicially quit anyway iirc.
Cosmos solo mains Corrin and Ryuga has never stopped playing Corrin. He's just on hiatus atm and will be back after/during the time of CEO.
Oh, I swear I heard somewhere he has a secondary. Still doesn't change the fact that he/she has barely any notable results though.
I mean Ruyga beat ally, and got 2nd at landlocked, but then he went on hiatus. Cosmos dropped pickachu for Corrin and now dominates Dallas (wins their weeklies and monthlies almost everytime now, only two not 1st place finishes since he picked up Corrin). They though have the best resaults. Though there are previously unknown Corrins popping up random palces besides them (state prs, europe, japan). I digress though Corrin does have a rep issue (Ryuga come back T-T).
I see this player named Anonymous Moniker occasionally pop up and place high with solo Corrin at some larger tournaments. Any idea where he's from?
Ya, he's a player who went from Rosa main, to Corrin / Rosa, to solo main Corrin I think hes somewhere in the mid west. Another one of those random up in coming Corrins (there are several in a bunch of regions). http://smashboards.com/rankings/anonymous-moniker.310675/user?id=8.
Zelda belongs higher because of her damage buffs, slight speedup on frames, more intan on Nayru's love, bigger uair hitbox. Also some of Zelda's worst matchups got hit with the nerf stick.My personal thoughts about this tier list
The SWF Community voted tier list 3.0
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NOTE THAT THIS IS ALL IN MY OPINION.
For one thing, her matchup spread is nowhere near as bad as people say. Her matchup spread isn't good, but it isn't horrendous like Dedede's is. She goes even aganist some notable characters, like Ness and Falcon. Falcon might actually be a win. She also goes only -1 aganist some other top tiers, such as Diddy. She only has 1-2 -3 matchups, and they're even debatable -2. She actually DOES beat certain characters too, such as WFT and Zelda. Contrary to popular belief, she doesn't lose hard to characters with great knockback; Ganondorf is either even or Puff's favor, not -4 in Ganon's favor. If you believe that is how the matchup is, you need to rethink it through. Why would a good Jigglypuff be getting hit by every single move he inputs?
Additionally, contrary to popular belief, her specials aren't useless. I mean, up and neutral specials are, but not down and side special. I hate it when people say all her specials suck. Pound is pretty good; It's a good shield destroyer, has pretty good damage, and isn't as bad as people say. Rest also isn't useless; it's still a great punish options despite its weaknesses, and helps Puff mains land the KO, especially from confirms into rest (This exists)
Also, contrary to popular belief, her ground game isn't useless; her dash attack is good, it KOs earlier than you think and is a good punishing tool. Jab is also pretty good too; it combos into many moves (Especially if you just use jab 1) and this includes dash attack, which can sometimes kill. Up tilt also has some great combos (Including a combo into rest if you do it correctly) and can also kill you at times.
And then of course, there is her great aerial attacks; Neutral air is very good, it has a ton of combos, is a great edgeguarding tool, and has a long-lasting hitbox; forward air also has combos (Including into rest), has a wall of pain, and, once again, is great for edgeguarding; back air is a great KO move even without the wall of pain, and, once again, is a good edgeguarding tool; Down air is muiti-hit and has a combo into rest; and up air has VERY good priority, has many combos from a fast-falling one and has hard to punish.
Most aerials have great priority and good edgeguarding skills too, and Pound is also usable for edgeguarding. All her aerials except for maybe down air (Not sure on that one) also have good priority too.
Now, don't get me wrong, Jigglypuff is still a bad character with bad weaknesses and really should get buffs, but if you think she is the worst, below ZELDA, I encourage you to watch RDR7 or Serynder play. They're both really good Jigglypuffs who proves that she isn't the worst.
Personally, I would put him where Olimar and Wario are.
And to top it all off, His results 100% support this, if not supporting more! Kameushi is dominating Japan right now with almost just Mega Man (He has a occasional secondary Cloud and a pocket Yoshi) and is the only currently consistant player in Japan. Daiki is also a good Mega Man in Japan getting good results. And then there's also Scatt, who, once again, is getting good results at nationals, such as 13th at Pound.
Mega Man's current spot is an bullet to the head for anyone who knows how this game works.
So yeah, basically, I think this tier list really isn't that good due to many major flaws (Such as
On another note, I like how all you guys are voting RIGHT after it's completed. You serisualy couldn't have come like one day earlier? lol.
Gonna post my tier list later this weekend...
). Fox and Mario are essentially the same atm in terms of viability; they both have great results from one great player and a bunch of other good players representating them, but their theory is slightly worse than Rosa's and Sonic's so I put them lower. ZSS is falling due to her theory not being as good anymore, espicially due to her nerfs, and her results falling a ton (Nick Riddle and Remzi have essentially disappeared and Nairo is constantly getting unlucky in losers by having to go aganist players such as ZeRo before losers finals or, in the one KTAR and Pound's case, bustering). Nario and Marrss are the only ZSS's activly going to nationals and performing well atm. Mewtwo has few disadvantageous matchups and even those are all debatly even, and Abadango is getting good american results here, along with other players. Ryu keeps rising due to Trela's amazing results atm with him, despite his sligtly worse matchup spread and theory than the ones above him.(?), but after that, they aren't even definite. That means a lot, and a ton of the remaining top tiers are even or slightly advantageous for Greninja.(?)
Wintermelon43
- You have to be the only person who regularly votes on this thread who says that Marth is "overrated". Literally nobody else here thinks Marth is overrated. If anything, you are indeed the one with the wrong opinion. As such, stop forcibly telling us we are all wrong.
Nidtendofreak
points out, just look at Marth's results. You are heavily underestimating a character that is getting those kind of results.
He's not "forcibly telling us" anything. It's his opinion and that's fine. If he thinks Marth is overrated, he must have some reason and we should just let him believe what he wants. As we all know, group consensus does not make something true. If everyone in the thread agrees that Marth is not overrated, that does not necessarily mean that he is not overrated in reality (as we have seen in the past, group consensus has been wrong about a LOT of things).
How is Marth getting a lot of results then if his matchup spread and theory is supposedly "no way top 30"?
The same reason he's adamant
is bottom tier when he both gets decent results and has a solid toolkit overall.
I put Link at top of bottom 10 or right above bottom 10.The same reason he's adamant
Then how has
etc gotten good results then?
Oh, I know he is allowed to have his own opinion (in fact, I am positive I edited my post to include a phrase along those lines, I must clicked cancel instead of save).
Wintermelon43
- matchup spreads are becoming very questionable, not just for Marth, but for a lot of characters. For example, it's been commonly believed that Marth loses to ZSS, but on more than one occasion, Marth has beaten ZSS rather easily (the most recent and notable example of Mr E beating Nairo). Marth's strengths potentially do outweigh his flaws, because as results have shown, Marth's "flaws" can't be that bad if he's scoring high. Secondly, most matchup spreads for Marth have little to draw from, as up until 1.1.4, he was rather underused. With Marth becoming more common, beating out many characters initially thought to struggle against, more evidence is cropping up in Marth's favour. You have to look at things as a whole.,,: Sheik still has noticeably more results than the other characters, even after the nerfs. Points more toward the fact of her being still among the top 3, with Diddy and Cloud, who also have the 2nd and 3rd most results.: Actually just a few results short of matching Cloud. Fox has been making big rises lately. While he hasn't done anything super huge, he's consistently placing well. It will be interesting to see how he gets on at the next few super majors.,,,: These characters are the next top placers. Rosalina and ZSS have a smaller playerbase than Mario and Sonic, but nonetheless, they still get great results.: Still getting great results after his nerfs. While it was established early on that his nerfs didn't hit him as hard as first thought, it's nice to have confirmation he can still get those top placements.: The "overrated" character. Whatever you think of him, he's still getting some of the best results.: Here things get interesting. Claims have been popping up everywhere that Ryu could be the best character in the game. Until we start seeing results at least on the line of Mario consistency, or until he wins a super major, I can't see it. Nonetheless, he's still one of the best scorers so far in 1.1.6, and I see no reason why he isn't well into the top 10, at least around the 8th position.: Marth is 12th out of the 47 characters that have gotten top 16 results. As such, that essentially makes him the 12th out of 58 potential characters if you are going off of all characters. That alone speaks volumes about his viability as a character. While he has a few issues, as I said above, the amount of results show that Marth's problems aren't enough to keep him as an unviable character. An unviable, overrated character? Certainly not. A high tier character? Meh, potentially... but, a viable character, with enough proof to be up there with characters like DK, Luigi and Ike? Hell yes.: ESAM can't have gotten all the results alone here. People go on about ESAM being his only representation, but that's just not the case, so for Pikachu to still be this high up shows he's still relevant in the metagame. Yes, lack of representation overall does hurt him, but he's obviously doing something right.: The next character, at 14th out of 47 recorded characters, is Bayonetta. Her nerfs have certainly impacted her, but her results show that she's 100% not down and out, and still a relevant character in the metagame. On top of that, she's still relatively new in her new form (1.1.6), while all the characters above have had far longer to develop and flesh out. Her able to do this well on that basis shows she's still a fantastic character.,, and . However, as you near the bottom, there are a couple of notable characters with next to no results, that in theory, should be getting them, and they are..., and : These characters could be lower down for a number of reasons, most likely due to lack of representation. The only one I feel that might make sense in some form, is Corrin. While I believe Corrin to still be good, he's currently being hella overrated, and ZeRo thinking he's top 10 doesn't help. Corrin's results are still overall poor, and has nothing overly hype to distinguish himself from the likes of Marth and Ike, both of whom are getting more results than him. I feel Corrin is still good, and around the level of said two characters, but these results just prove that he's being overrated by many. Villager and Mewtwo are considered top threats in the metagame, but still are getting overall below average to poor results. I think if we give it more time, they'll rise more (moreso Mewtwo), but it's interesting that characters that are considered below them, such as Marth, Ike, Mega Man, DK, Toon Link, Greninja, ROB etc, are still out performing them. I have no doubt in saying these characters are still fantastic, but will they stay up here, considering other characters are on the rise? Only time will tell., and , this just adds more fuel to the fire of them being poor characters. Heck, even got a couple of placements when these couldn't/didn't.
Mewtwo doesn't appear to have a huge learning curve to me. I don't use Mewtwo seriously, but I still feel pretty competent with him. The only real thing you have to be mindful of is throwing out mindless moves, because like you said, he can get punished or KO'd pretty hard due to his light weight and large frame, which puts him on the wrong foot. Other than that, he has a useful quick projectile, that he can choose to charge into a powerful pressure tool. He has arguably the best and easiest to use SHAD in the game, and some of the best and safest options from it. He also has speed to apply pressure, as well as powerful and damaging throws.
I can't agree more. Ryu has had one of the weirdest lifetimes of any Smash character. Sometimes he gets a good result here or there and people are like: "Oh man! This character is insane and could be top 3!" but then other times he goes weeks or months without doing too much and people are like: "Eh, he doesn't have a good future ahead of him..."
