Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Browny]

Spoiler

Its time (BUT SO EARLY) for the community voted tier list again! I did this for brawl over a period of a year and it became very popular with well over 1000 votes cast. I await the day the mods allow me to move this into the competitive forum where it belongs

For new players or those that didnt take part in the brawl one, I am a big fan of the iterative process instead of the vote > average > list process. Iteration is a slower process but allows for more refined adjustments for each and every character movement before the list is looked at as a whole, and the process is repeated. It is a holistic process, designed to make a tier list factoring in many aspects.
This is my method, it is long but it is comprehensive and fun for people who get involved.

Spoiler

All characters start at an equal rating for a clean slate and will move up and down every update. Ideally we want a rank of characters completely individual with no sharing of a position however multiple characters can occupy the same spot.

The rules are you can vote for 5 characters, + or - votes any way you want. +1 OR -1 VOTES ONLY. Characters that finish each round with +5 or - 3 or more votes in any direction will move a tier. Characters that finish a round with + or - 10 votes will move 2 tiers. Characters are loosely ranked within tiers. Characters can not jump 2 tiers if that would create a gap in the tiers.

This is an example of the required reply to this thread. At this point in time the maximum amount of votes is FIVE per period. I will update the thread title when a new voting period begins.

DK +1
Mario -1
Little Mac -1
Bayonetta +1
Pac-man +1

You are allowed to do any combination of + and – votes if you want, five +1 or five –1 votes is perfectly fine. Remember only +1 or -1 votes allowed! Base your votes on ANYTHING you want. This is a community list. If you think tourney results are all that matters, use them. If your scene has a lot of a certain character and you cant beat them, vote them up. Put characters where YOU think they should be, not where everyone else does.

Over time the tier list will spread out and characters will fit into their places.

We want to spread the list out so that every character is in their own position, we will worry about the grouping for tiers later and dont get complacent! Any character can be moved at any time with enough down votes.

Version 3.0 Final List (Version 1.1.4-1.1.6), 20 voting periods

1:
2:
3:
4:()
5:
6:
7:
8:
9:

Until another time... Probably 2-3 months away.

Version 1.0 final list (Version 1.04-1.06)

Spoiler

S
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
H

Version 2.0 final list (Version 1.07-1.12)

Spoiler

1:
2:
3: ( )
4:
5:
6:
7:

THIS IS CUSTOMS OFF. CHARACTERS ARE NOT RANKED WITHIN TIERS

SPECIAL NOTES:
Mii fighters are Guest XXXX
Dark Pit and Pit are always going to be joined
It now takes 5+ votes to move a character up, but still -3 to send them down

FAQ

Q) Can I vote +2, -3 etc.?
A) No, only + or -1 votes

Q) Why is [character] so low/high?
A) Because that's where they were voted in the last voting round, vote them where you think they should be!

Q) [Character] got enough votes but didnt move?
A) I may have made a mistake in the counting, let me know and I'll fix it. There is a lot of votes to go through.

Q) Is this customs legal?
A) For now, no. It depends if customs becomes the tournament standard. Since it is currently not, the list is customs off for the time being.

Q) Should I vote depending on what other people are voting on?
A) I used to care about this and say no, but then that would go against my idea of being able to vote on literally whatever you want. So go ahead and vote on whatever you feel like, even if that means counter votes.

 

[Iron Kraken]

+1 Diddy Kong
+1 Rosalina & Luma
+1 Sheik
+1 Yoshi
+1 Lucario

 

[EclipseSmash]

+1 Diddy Kong
+1 Rosalina & Luma
+1 Yoshi
+1 Sheik
+1 R.O.B.

 

[Nocally]

Fox +1
Pikachu +1
Diddy Kong +1
Samus -1
Pac-Man -1

 

[Nekoo]

Sonic+1
Little Mac-1
Reflet/Robin+1
ZSS+1
Fox-1

 

[GreenFlame]

Rosalina and Luma +1
Sheik +1
Ganondorf +1
Zelda -1
Lucina -1

 

[Maruigi]

+1 Mario
+1 Megaman
+1 Captain Falcon
-1 King DDD
-1 Olimar

 

[Trifroze]

Just saying what I feel needs to be said: even with a voting system, most people will vote based on watching tournaments or seeing tournament results whereas many others will vote based on fairly incomprehensive experience, yet those players have the same amount of votes as ones with a lot of firsthand personal experience. If anything, this method will produce a tier list for an average player instead of high-level play. I agree "tournament results only" isn't the perfect way to make tier lists, but I think it's the best one we have. Voting is tampered by inexperience and analyzing is tampered by bias. But hey let's jump in:

Diddy Kong +1
Sheik +1
ZSS +1
Rosalina & Luma +1
Ness +1

 

[gameonion]

Luigi +1 (Srsly, underrated character, so much potential.)
R.O.B. +1 (Killermachine, all hail the spinner.)
Wii Fit-Trainer +1 (Talk ****, get fit. )

 

[Nekoo]

Just saying what I feel needs to be said: even with a voting system, most people will vote based on watching tournaments or seeing tournament results whereas many others will vote based on fairly incomprehensive experience, yet those players have the same amount of votes as ones with a lot of firsthand personal experience. If anything, this method will produce a tier list for an average player instead of high-level play. I agree "tournament results only" isn't the perfect way to make tier lists, but I think it's the best one we have. Voting is tampered by inexperience and analyzing is tampered by bias.

There is One problem . How a character can be voted if nobody play him , but he's good and people don't play him because he was bad on Brawl ? Like i don't know... Sonic ? Or Pit ? Or Olimar ? Or some are overvoted because they was overplayed in past smash ?

I don't think Tournament result are good for voting . Because si most Player Skill than Character Skill

 

[SSJ Kirby]

++ Kirby
+ Rosalina
+ Dedede

 

[Trifroze]

There is One problem . How a character can be voted if nobody play him , but he's good and people don't play him because he was bad on Brawl ? Like i don't know... Sonic ? Or Pit ? Or Olimar ? Or some are overvoted because they was overplayed in past smash ?

I don't think Tournament result are good for voting . Because si most Player Skill than Character Skill

There are problems, but they're lesser than the problems with the other methods. If you want to see between 10 cars which one gets the fastest lap time on a circuit, do you vote for it or test it? If vote, do you give motorsport experts the same amount of votes as you give other people? Of course not because that would mean the most valuable experience sinks into the millions of other votes and becomes obsolete. But how do you determine how many votes each individual gets and how to prevent bias from the motorsport experts intentionally underestimating their own car model to make it seem like the only reason they'd do well is their own skill and nothing else, or something of that sort?

You can't really, so the only way is to test which car is the fastest by doing a time trial with each of them. Now of course the time will also depend on the skill and condition of the drivers driving the car, but when you keep doing dozens of these tests every month around the world the skill factor evens out and becomes irrelevant, giving us the most accurate results we can easily obtain.

Now of course if you can freely choose which characters to use in a tournament, some will get used more than others based on first impressions and players will develop those characters more quickly, further snowballing the usage of them, but at the same time there will be all the more people getting sick of it trying to find alternate methods or counters to do the job by researching and trying other characters out and developing them just as hard. There's a reason why science is done by testing and debate rather than voting, after all.

I'm all for this topic but I'm asking not to try to argue it's a better method for making a competitive tier list.

 

[Esquire]

+1 R.O.B.
+1 Mii Brawler
+1 Diddy Kong
+1 Rosalina and Luma
-1 Dr. Mario

 

[Azule07]

+1 Little Mac
+1 Shulk
-1 Olimar
-1 Lucina

 

[Runic_SSB]

+1 Zero Suit Samus
+1 Diddy Kong
+1 Mii Brawler
-1 King Dedede
-1 Mr. Game & Watch

 

[Raijinken]

Sheik +1
Rosaluma +1
Lucario +1
Zero Suit Samus +1
Game&Watch -1

 

[Nat Goméz]

+Little Mac
+Rosalina & Luma
+Diddy Kong
+Marth
+Fox

 

[the8thark]

Would you think it is best to wait to vote on tier lists till at least the 6th of December. So everyone has a chance to play the game first?
I would think this is the sensible thing to do. But obviously others do not.

If you try to get people to vote now it'll be only NA people who vote as no one else has the game yet.

 

[Etc_Guy]

+1 : Very campy and can destroy easily if you know what your doing.

+1 : Might not be as good as brawl, but still excellent if played right.

+1 : Green Mario is better than ever. Luigi's U-special is easy to sweet spot on big characters like , , and even Master Core. The tornado is perfect for combos and makes more a clone than clone.

-1 : Poor D3, he lost a good game this day. His d-air was changed for the worst and side-special doesn't take projectiles anymore. Oddly, DeDeDe's vocal cords sound busted for some reason.

+1 /: Get fit or else! You think a yoga instructor wouldn't be a good fighter but NOPE! She/he can deal some good damage with their side/neutral-specail if out of range. Once in melee range, the 3rd jab can burry opponents at higher %s.

 

[Raijinken]

Would you think it is best to wait to vote on tier lists till at least the 6th of December. So everyone has a chance to play the game first?
I would think this is the sensible thing to do. But obviously others do not.

If you try to get people to vote now it'll be only NA people who vote as no one else has the game yet.

Characters function identically to the 3DS version, which has been out for quite a while now. The only difference is in control (and, theoretically, in Olimar's pikmin not desyncing, or so I've heard), which doesn't make a huge difference. Plus, as time goes on, more lists will be made or updated, and there's also time later in this process for tweaking.

 

[the8thark]

Characters function identically to the 3DS version, which has been out for quite a while now. The only difference is in control (and, theoretically, in Olimar's pikmin not desyncing, or so I've heard), which doesn't make a huge difference. Plus, as time goes on, more lists will be made or updated, and there's also time later in this process for tweaking.

The control DOES make a huge difference form who I have talked to and from reading many many words on the subject on these forums.
And from my own experiences I was relatively good at Brawl and Melee but I could not handle the 3DS control stick at all. It made the game so much harder to play. On Saturday I'll see how the WiU version plays (Being Australian I do not have the game yet).

Yes more lists will be made so I'm not worried there. If you're ok with this list being NA only then that's fine by me. I don't want to de-rail the topic . . . oops . . . oh well. Just I thought this needed up be pointed out.

I personally it's too early and should wait till at least the EU and Aus people get the game. Only 3-4 more days. But that is just my opinion only. Or you could lengthen the voting time to say a week so the EU and Aus people can play the game and vote on it. having the vote period end specifically before the 29th does speak volumes. And is 2 days really enough time to vote?

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

There is One problem . How a character can be voted if nobody play him , but he's good and people don't play him because he was bad on Brawl ? Like i don't know... Sonic ? Or Pit ? Or Olimar ? Or some are overvoted because they was overplayed in past smash ?

I don't think Tournament result are good for voting . Because si most Player Skill than Character Skill

Thisssss
Link +1
+1
+1
+1

 

[RespawningJesus]

Zero Suit Samus +1
Shulk +1
Rosaluma +1
Captain Falcon +1
Ness +1

 

[Raijinken]

The control DOES make a huge difference form who I have talked to and from reading many many words on the subject on these forums.
And from my own experiences I was relatively good at Brawl and Melee but I could not handle the 3DS control stick at all. It made the game so much harder to play. On Saturday I'll see how the WiU version plays (Being Australian I do not have the game yet).

Yes more lists will be made so I'm not worried there. If you're ok with this list being NA only then that's fine by me. I don't want to de-rail the topic . . . oops . . . oh well. Just I thought this needed up be pointed out.

I personally it's too early and should wait till at least the EU and Aus people get the game. Only 3-4 more days. But that is just my opinion only. Or you could lengthen the voting time to say a week so the EU and Aus people can play the game and vote on it. having the vote period end specifically before the 29th does speak volumes. And is 2 days really enough time to vote?

Fair point, but then it can be equally argued that no region at the time will have had the game for more than a few weeks, which further delays the results.

I think it'll be fine. Tier lists change significantly over time anyway.

And while I agree that the controls make a huge difference with how executable and accurate some options are, I've yet to run into many that are outright impossible on the 3DS (aside from the standard c-stick techniques, which I've not seen make a huge impact, though I'm quite likely very wrong), which is why I wouldn't consider that impact a huge change.

I guess my reasoning mostly boils down to "It won't make a huge difference if a region or three miss the initial voting stage, as the results will shift gradually over time, and even if we wait, no region will have had the console version for very long."

 

[the8thark]

Fair point, but then it can be equally argued that no region at the time will have had the game for more than a few weeks, which further delays the results.

I think it'll be fine. Tier lists change significantly over time anyway.

And while I agree that the controls make a huge difference with how executable and accurate some options are, I've yet to run into many that are outright impossible on the 3DS (aside from the standard c-stick techniques, which I've not seen make a huge impact, though I'm quite likely very wrong), which is why I wouldn't consider that impact a huge change.

I guess my reasoning mostly boils down to "It won't make a huge difference if a region or three miss the initial voting stage, as the results will shift gradually over time, and even if we wait, no region will have had the console version for very long."

Fair enough. You make valid points.
To me though, even a day is enough time to get a rough feel for the game. I will abstain from voting in this particular poll for the most part simply because of the date you chose to host the poll. Hope you have no hard feelings about this. I just can't vote on a game I have not played yet. And others will feel the same.

I don't know if I will vote in future rounds of this particular poll after being essentially banned from voting in the first round. I'll think about it.

 

[Nekoishi]

+1
+1
+1
+1
-1

 

[Admiral Pit]

I hate things like this, but let's see what I can do.

+1 I'm sure all of you saw this coming, but my reasons behind it isn't generally because of bias as some think I'd go for. Rather, well... Remember the Brawl times when characters like Diddy, Olimar, ZSS and ICs slowly began to rise as time went by and new things were discovered to increase their potential? I feel that Palutena is the same thing as well. I don't expect her to be high tier at all, but somewhere in mid at best, especially if players figure out how to use her well. There's potential in her, but I don't think many players will be able to unlock it soon unless they're dedicated. IMO, Palutena is definitely not a character you can just pick up and be good with quickly.
And whenever there's times where customs are legal, she'll be even better and more versatile, and that can't be denied. But again, only the most dedicated players and such with skill and knowledge may be able to utilize those customs as well as the default.

All and all, some characters will improve over time

+1 She's good enough, and she may be better in the hands of players with fast hands, reactions, and utilize different setups and versatility to keep their opponents guessing and trying to keep up.

+1 Let's just say the recent buffs made him faster and stronger. It's only a matter of time.

+1 Same with Ike by getting a good amount of buffs, except add the need for Monado arts at the right time and situation. Give the game time for more players learn how to use him well, and his arts.

+1 While his recovery is still not so great (which can be fixed a bit using an Up-B custom, provided that customs will be allowed in some areas), he still received buffs, mainly to his KO power that he desperately needed.


My thoughts in general is that the game still young, and many are not giving some characters much of a chance due to wretched tiers lists, and surprisingly an early one at that. While it's generally about the Rosa/Sheik/Diddy/ZSS bandwagon now, many are neglecting some of the uncommon characters because of that, and don't know what potential they can hold. Just give the game time to age and character potential to develop and I'm sure many characters that aren't getting much attention now will at least be recognized, or even pose more of a threat than they used to be.

 

[Rockaphin]

+1
+1
+1
+1
-1

 

[ErenJager]

+1 Captain Falcon
+1 Samus
+1 Peach
+1 Bowser
+1 Shulk

 

[Jigglypumped]

+1
+1
-1
-1
-1

 

[Doruge]

Mii Brawler +1
Robin +1
Wii Fit -1
Zelda -1
G&W -1

 

[TTTTTsd]

+1 - Dr. Mario (He's okay, nothing special but not bottom tier. Low tier ideally)
+1 - Captain Falcon (Push this man to the moon)
+1 - Bowser
+1 - Luigi
+1 - Ganondorf (drastically improved)
-1 - Mii Swordsman
-1 - Olimar

 

[Deadlybroth]

+1 Megaman
+1 Diddy Kong
+1 Marth
+1 Sheik
+1 Robin

 

[SilverhandX]

Rosalina +1
Mario +1
Diddy Kong +1
Captain Falcon +1
Lucario +1

 

[I ReZo I]

Diddy Kong +1 - Broken Tier
Sheik +1 - Yeah..
Zero Suit Samus +1 - Character movement sweetspot, just flows perfectly
Duck Hunt +1 - Dat Camp. Anyone bringing the marshmallows? lol


Marth -1 - Marth's my main, but too many nerfs. His range is decreased, his neutral B special is garbage now, added WAY too many recovery frames on his Fair, his air game is garbage compared to what it used to be, he is sitting middle of the pack at best, rely's too heavily on throws now. (Rawr angry about marth)

 

[JmacAttack]

+1 Diddy Kong
+1 Sheik
+1 Pikachu
+1 Ganondorf
+1 Shulk

 

[Browny]

Hi

Thanks for the votes, more than I expected! In which case we will begin the second round as of... right now! Due to the massive number of votes that came in for Rosalina and Diddy, they will both be put up 2 places (more than 10 votes). Sheik wasnt far behind on 9.

 

[the8thark]

Hi

Thanks for the votes, more than I expected! In which case we will begin the second round as of... right now! Due to the massive number of votes that came in for Rosalina and Diddy, they will both be put up 2 places (more than 10 votes). Sheik wasnt far behind on 9.

Thank you for this. Please make the next round of voting after the 29th please.

 

[Browny]

I am actually from australia too lol and wont get it until then

however the first few days really is just to put characters in the right half of the good and bad spectrum. Expect around 50 voting periods for each list, youll have plenty of time to have your say.

 

[GreenFlame]

Hi

Thanks for the votes, more than I expected! In which case we will begin the second round as of... right now! Due to the massive number of votes that came in for Rosalina and Diddy, they will both be put up 2 places (more than 10 votes). Sheik wasnt far behind on 9.

So we start voting again right now?