Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Zerp]

I've actually met quite a few people out there who think really she's worse than Jigglypuff/Dedede/Zelda so it's probably not sarcastic, I completely disagree with her being that low but it's a legitimate viewpoint many people have from what I can tell. I personally think they're looking at this the wrong way, only at what she's lost instead of what she still has, which includes her God-Tier recovery, good edgeguarding game, general damage racking ability, her B-air's spacing utilities, and some more, I really cannot fathom a character being lower than high-mid with a kit that good, but of course, they're welcome to have their opinion. I'm honestly kind of interested in seeing the reasoning behind that logic myself, since I don't feel like I understand it, if anyone would be willing to step forward and explain why you think she's bottom tier, please do.

 

[Zeriora]

1.
-1

 

[Bowserboy3]

I've actually met quite a few people out there who think really she's worse than Jigglypuff/Dedede/Zelda so it's probably not sarcastic, I completely disagree with her being that low but it's a legitimate viewpoint many people have from what I can tell. I personally think they're looking at this the wrong way, only at what she's lost instead of what she still has, which includes her God-Tier recovery, good edgeguarding game, general damage racking ability, her B-air's spacing utilities, and some more, I really cannot fathom a character being lower than high-mid with a kit that good, but of course, they're welcome to have their opinion. I'm honestly kind of interested in seeing the reasoning behind that logic myself, since I don't feel like I understand it, if anyone would be willing to step forward and explain why you think she's bottom tier, please do.

You forgot the most important thing; Witch Time. How could you forget that?!

But in all seriousness, I too, am in the same boat as you. I still use Bayonetta after her nerfs, and her combo game is still solid. How people think that they can react to the first Witch Twist and SDI it on time in a game scenario is beyond me, that it unless they know it's coming. She can still 0-30 you using one Witch Twist. She can still KO you at around 30% near the edge off of a Witch Time, and at 70% anywhere else off of one. Her Bair is a fantastic move. The only real problem I've been finding with Bayonetta now is just securing that KO, but even then she has Bair, Nair (which sets up for an edgeguard, which she can convert easily), and Witch Time + Smash. Witch Time still commands respect at high percents due to the risk of being KO'd. Dtilt to Uair is still a thing which KO's. And when situations get dire, Fthrow works too.

I also don't quite understand the whole "Bayonetta's neutral sucks". Sure, it's not fantastic, but it's by no means bad. Do people forget that she can just jump and use held Nair and tack damage on and force people to approach her? Sourspot Nair then leads into multiple moves too, such as Dash Attack, Bullet Climax, and Heel Slide.

With all this, I find it a bit absurd that Bayonetta is as bad as Puff, Zelda and Dedede. I'm yet to be convinced why she would be at lowest, any lower than high mid tier.

I must say though, these nerfs have actually helped me develop more with Bayonetta, as opposed to relying more on her 0-deaths. I'm getting a lot more competent with the rest of her kit, and I'm really enjoying it.

 

[jordanm43444]

Chiming in on the Bayo nerfs here.

Her combo game is fine, yea sure she wont kill you off of one upb or divekick, but that doesnt mean her normals are exceptionally good at comboing. DTilt sets up for SO MANY THINGS!

Also:
https://twitter.com/ikep334/status/735064317129691137

 

[VizionarY]

Not going to do anything, but +1 Bayonetta vote

Seriously, bottom 5 in the game? I really hope that was hyperbole because that's just plain old delusional.

As I said: we have zero clue of how bad she actually is now and won't have a clue for another 3-4 weeks.

I know DMWN personally and I know he's joking. I used to think to that after 1.1.6 Bayonetta was gonna be low tier or mid tier; DMWN told me Bayonetta is Still a solid character. He was just sarcastically down voting Bayonetta because he hasn't voted on this round yet and he felt like jokingly trolling people by saying "contender for bottom 5 IMO".

 

[DMWN]

While it's true that I don't think Bayonetta is in this tier, I was certainly kidding about her being anywhere near bottom 5. Bayonetta's still an awesome character and she can still 0-death you if you're not careful enough. Sure, many of my posts are quite visceral, but I'm not an idiot.

 

[SpaceCanary]

+1 : I'm probably flogging a dead horse (so goes the old saying), but this is indeed a countervote. Of course, we all know what's happened to Bayonetta. I played Bayonetta before the patch, and I'm not somebody who's going to drop her because of her nerfs. I've been continuing to play her and develop her, and from my experience, she's still extremely solid. She still has an above average combo game. She still has Witch Time, that when landed, allows her KO you at around 70% anywhere on stage. She still has that awesome held Nair for edgeguards, and one of the best recoveries to boot. And somehow they left her Bair in tact, and I still believe this is one of the best aerials in the game. It has decent start up, high range, high damage, KO power, safety on shield, and low landing lag. If you just spam SHFF Bair in front of an opponent, most of them run into it eventually lmao. But in all seriousness, I don't think she's quite the best character any more. I don't want to push her down into the echelons of Mewtwo/Ness tier just yet.

I don't expect this vote to do much in all honesty, but alas, I feel no need to vote anywhere else, so what else can I do?

This is about how I feel. My downvote is based on the fact that a lot of Bayo players are probably going to say "Yuck! Nerfs!" and flock away from her like they did ZSS and Sheik, causing her results to plummet. However, she does still have a formidable combo ability, including the fact that her ZSS-style Uair is also intact and helps with combos. I'm working on combos from throws and covering options from SDIed Witch Twists, and she actually has a lot of followups if one knows how to fully utilize Bayo's aerial arsenal. The true test will be whether or not ZSS ends up outclassing her, as she is also a master of aerial combos and stun kills.

Plus, as a sidenote: That part about Witch Time followups killing at 70%? That's a Cloud/Ryu class gimp. Just based on that, there's no way Bayo will drop far.

 

[Bowserboy3]

https://twitter.com/ikep334/status/735064317129691137

Ok, that was a pretty fantastic combo. I think the Dtilt may have been shield-able after the first Bair, but that Bair was probably necessary so the opponent had a little damage on them, keeping them in hitstun for the rest of the combo for a tad longer.

This is something that's a good place for me to start to pick apart, and improvise with a bit. 0-88%? Yes please!

 

[bc1910]

Ok, that was a pretty fantastic combo. I think the Dtilt may have been shield-able after the first Bair, but that Bair was probably necessary so the opponent had a little damage on them, keeping them in hitstun for the rest of the combo for a tad longer.

This is something that's a good place for me to start to pick apart, and improvise with a bit. 0-88%? Yes please!

Dtilt was definitely shieldable. And there's no reason not to hold shield against her now if you're next to her on the ground since her grabs aren't scary. There was never any reason not to do that actually.

Essentially just block or out-frame data her Dtilt (most of the good characters have 2 or 3 frame jabs vs Bayo's 7f Dtilt) and you're good. Still it's nice to know she can do that sort of stuff to punish mistakes in CQC. not that it matters since she can't kill now either

 

[Browny]

UPDATED

 

[ShadowGuy1]

This version felt a lot shorter than the last ones

 

[Browny]

Less characters to vote for, and to be honest the results were very clear. With that said... PHASE 3 BEGINS. This is the second to last vote before this is finished!

 

[Zerp]

This was pretty hard, not going to lie, it's hard to find where exactly I'd want to cut things off, especially when cutting off at character X means putting Y in a lower tier as well if I believe Y>X. Apologies if my vote's weird, I wasn't really sure how to handle this.

Spoiler: My vote

Top Tier
High Tier:
Low-High Tier: ()
High-Mid Tier:
Mid Tier:
Low-Mid Tier:
Low Tier:
Bottom Tier:

Edit: Added names, just because I can.

 

[Tizio Random]

Disclaimer: I'm one of those people who think the less tiers there are the better. So:

Spoiler

S
A
B ()
C
D
E

Still, seeing this vote I just wanted to say that is nowhere near tier 6 andis way higher on top of it all.

EDIT: I changed the names of thiers from numbers to letters

 

[Bowserboy3]

Ok, so without moving the characters ordering around, I'd vote...





()






This is hard for me, because I've had to put splits because I came to a character that I felt needed to be put into a tier below, but then because we are not allowed to move characters, there are some incorrect positions (for example, IMO, I had to split Falcon and Pits up, but I don't believe Lucario is in the same tier as them; I feel he's next to Falcon so to speak). Zerp feels the same way, and explains it better, so go check that vote out (2 posts above).

---

Browny - Didn't last time, we have a round where we could sort of "wild card" a few characters up or down a bit? I feel there are a few characters that would benefit from that (notably, characters like , and ). And didn't you mention us having a specific vote on soon (however, I feel her placement right now is justified)?

---

Off topic a moment, I feel that two characters deserve another look at their tier placements. They are and . Both these characters performed really well at Get On My Level 2016; Marth was used by 4 different players in the top 17, and a player by the name of Darkwolf managed to net 13th place using just Shulk. I feel that Marth COULD be pushed up 2 or 3 more spots on this basis, but Shulk has really shown some potential. He could even be somewhere near Samus, if not a bit higher.

 

[Browny]

I literally described the wildcard round in the first post, yes you are right.

Personally I want to see DHD, Megaman and Mewtwo move.

 

[Frihetsanka]

1.
2.
3. ()
4.
5.
6.
7.

1: Top tier
2: High tier
3: High-mid tier
4. Mid-mid tier
5. Low-mid tier
6. Low tier
7. Bottom tier

It's not perfect and I'd like to move some characters around, but I'm not allowed to at this point, so this is what I've got. 7 tiers seems reasonable, although 6 tiers could work too. More than that and you get some strange names for tiers (low-high tier, high-high tier, high-low tier etc).

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

Top:
High: ()
Mid:
Low:
Bottom:
Jigglypuff:

This is how I've always split the list, except I had an extra tier at the top when Sheik and then Bayonetta were proving dominant.

 

[Bowserboy3]

7 tiers seems reasonable, although 6 tiers could work too. More than that and you get some strange names for tiers (low-high tier, high-high tier, high-low tier etc).

Just because the tier names might not be simple, that shouldn't stop people from creating tiers. Brawl had at least 11 tiers and it worked fine with it's naming and labelling.

Just as an example:

Top:

I can't see how for example, some of these characters deserve to be in one whole tier. Characters like Diddy, Sheik, Rosa, ZSS, Cloud and Mario consistently get within the top 5 of many tournaments, when characters like Sonic, Ryu and Villager don't. Yes, they have proven to be good on many an occasion, and just by looking at their kit, you can see they are fantastic characters, but they still in reality aren't as strong as the top 5 or 6.

Just to clarify, L1N3R1D3R , I'm not picking apart your vote. You're entitled 100% to your own opinion. I was just using your example as a way to explain the reasoning behind my voting.

 

[Bigbomb2]

1:
2:
3:()
4:
5:
6:
7:

I want to raise so many characters up but then who would be lower then? Like I'd raise Wario up but then the possibly more deserving Pac would move down. When I think about it, that's pretty good game balance. I'll take this

 

[Rhinomaster22]

List seems okay in most areas except bottom or tier with Palutena. I don't why people don't believe she's higher than other bottom tier characters and her results say otherwise compared to them.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

S: A: A-: B: () B-: C: C-: D: F:

I'm just waiting for the wild card round
I'm sorry for the bad formatting, mobile is pretty bad

 

[SpaceCanary]

Spoiler

Top:
Upper High:
Middle High:
Lower High: ()
Upper Mid:
Middle Mid:
Lower Mid:
Upper Low:
Middle Low:
Lower Low:
Bottom:

Sorry about the crazy number of tiers and the weird tier names. I tend to sift characters into tons of tiers like this. . .

 

[Bowserboy3]

Spoiler

Top:
Upper High:
Middle High:
Lower High: ()
Upper Mid:
Middle Mid:
Lower Mid:
Upper Low:
Middle Low:
Lower Low:
Bottom:

Sorry about the crazy number of tiers and the weird tier names. I tend to sift characters into tons of tiers like this. . .

I personally prefer sifting into more tiers, like you. I find it far easier to rank characters by splitting them into more tiers. Like, while some characters are relatively the same in terms of viability, some get better results, are more consistent etc, so I just feel it makes sense to vote like this, but again, mainly because I find it easier to rank characters.

It's also easier to move characters about with more tiers too. You don't run the risk of voting somebody up too far.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

S
A
B
C()
D
E
F
G

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

Could someone inform me the rules for this phase? Like what are we doing with the characters?

 

[Zerp]

Could someone inform me the rules for this phase? Like what are we doing with the characters?

PHASE 3 BEGINS.

This phase is a single vote to determine where to split the tiers. THE ORDER OF THE CHARACTERS CAN NOT BE CHANGED. What you do is simple, Copy and paste this list which is the current order of characters. The actual tier list right now is below the spoilers.

()

Basically we're splitting up this list in any way you want without rearranging the order the characters are in, for example you do something like this

()


or like this

And split them by putting a space between the tiers. For example, this is my vote



()

and that'd be your vote, all you have to do is split it up somehow, or actually I guess you don't even have to split the list if you think everyone's the same tier, basically just split them where you think the separate tiers are and you should be fine.

 

[DarkK]

1.
2.
3. ()
4.
5.
6.
God dammit Sakurai why won't you buff.

Tier 5 was hard because I don't think Mac and Roy should be that low, but Duck Hunt , Junior and Charizard were in the way, so eh.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

People saying Sonic has little stuff have to realize the wonderful country of Japan is still a thing with KEN doing well along with Komirikiri

 

[Muskrat Catcher]

I vote:


()

 

[Routa]

Spoiler: Mah order

1.
1.5.
2.
2.5.()
3.
3.5
4.
5.

 

[Ze Diglett]

()

 

[AlphaSSB]

S-Tier:
A-Tier:
B-Tier:
C-Tier:
D-Tier:
E-Tier:
F-Tier:

 

[jespoke]

Here we go!
S:
A+:
A:
A-:
B+: ()
B:
B-:
C+:
C:
C-:
D+:
D:
D-:

I split every time i felt there was a reasonable gap, so i ended up with 13 tiers. The tiny D tier is the fault of Palutena being too low on the list.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Spoiler

1:
2:
3:
4:
5)
6:(lol)
7:
8:
9:

1:
2:
3:()
4:
5:
6:
7:
8:

btw, I feel sorry for anyone that thinks Jigglypuff has her own tier below everybody else. It's gonna hurt really bad when they play aganist a really good Jigglypuff and get bodied

 

[Phuckyew]

S:
A+:
A:
A-:
B+:
B: ()
B-:
C+:
C:
C-:
D+:
D:
D-:

 

[lbrasz44]

S
S-

A+
A
A-

B+ ()
B
B-

C+
C
C-

D+
D
D-


I'm a fan of how Melee and Brawl were very very specific in their tiers and who was within them, which resulted in many groups with those closest to their power level and not just general placings. There are some outliers that I had to work around, like DHD and Palutena being that low, but eh whatever.

 

[Stick Dude]

()

 

[Xandercosm]

)





I'm a fan of the seven tier system. I also like the idea of grouping most of the characters around the middle and high tiers. It may just change the list visually but I think it also gives you a sense of how well balanced the game is.

 

[DMWN]

S:
A+:
A:
A-:()
B+:
B:
B-:
C+:
C-:
D:
E:
F: