Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[xDantieLx]

You seem to have forgotten about the nerfs. She's a fine character but I don't even think she is in the top 5 anymore. Her power has been nerfed, her grab reward has been greatly nerfed, her grab still sucks, she's combo food due to her height/weight/fallspeed, etc. I'm not arguing that she isn't good anymore but let's not kid ourselves into thinking she is still top 3, much less second best in the game. I also feel like she is quickly losing relevance as other characters that are more solid climb above her (Diddy, Rosa, Cloud, Fox, Mario, etc).

The nerfs did not changed her that much, of course she is not as powerful as before (she was high risk INSANE reward, now she is high risk high reward)...but she is absolutely one of the best characters in the game (No.5 at the very least). Nairo and MARSS are getting excellent results even with all of her nerfs and their playstyle hasn't changed that much tbh, rushdown is the way to go with ZsS plus she is not combo food at all because of her light weight lol
in low/medium/high level plays she is not that good i'll give you that, but in top plays...she is a force to be reckoned with (Nairo, MARSS).

Characters that are more solid than her ?
Cloud is not top 3 ( his recovery is awful SPECIALLY in top plays) Same thing with Fox and HE IS combo food for ZsS, Mario is ok but i dont see how he is better than ZsS...in anything and rosalina can be punished really hard because her featherweight and diddy...has ZeRo representation as of now.
all of them are solid characters but more than ZsS ? i would saye AS SOLID AS ZSS.

Fox and Mario overall are not better than her imo (Nairo going toe to toe and even winning against Ally and Larry is proof of how good she is)
She is in TOP 5 in a lot of tier lists.

P.D. Nairo won EGLX and LVL UP using only ZsS so there's that...

 

[xDantieLx]

Here you go...
1.

-1

i would swap ZsS and sheik, i like it

 

[xDantieLx]

1.15
1:

1.16
1:
-

Also where is Ryu lol, he is definitely top tier

Ryu is better that 1.1.6 bayonetta now xD

 

[jespoke]

Diddy...has ZeRo representation as of now.

I don't disagree too hard with most of what you have to say except for Diddy's representation, Diddy has tons of high level players, and a handful of top level ones (ZeRo, Zinoto, Nietono, MVD) and some of the best results of the cast (In results Fox vastly outdoes his average vote in this thread as well BTW).



This is unrelated, but i think you should generally not respond to individual textless votes unless asking for reasoning behind particularly unusual placements. General opinions/discussion goes better in its own post.

 

[xDantieLx]

I don't disagree too hard with most of what you have to say except for Diddy's representation, Diddy has tons of high level players, and a handful of top level ones (ZeRo, Zinoto, Nietono, MVD) and some of the best results of the cast (In results Fox vastly outdoes his average vote in this thread as well BTW).



This is unrelated, but i think you should generally not respond to individual textless votes unless asking for reasoning behind particularly unusual placements. General opinions/discussion goes better in its own post.

I know Diddy is an awesome character but his main representation has always been ZeRo and he is out for now because of an injury, thats what i tried to say.

Fox and ZsS would not have that much of a strong representation if it werent for their main users: Larry and Nairo.

For what i read you do disagree with what i said (and i would really like to know in which points you disagree ) and thats ok, but do you really think that ZsS is out of the top 5 ?...cuz i dont see how is that possible (as of now of course).

P.D. Sorry for the replies, i wont do that again.

 

[Airpoizon]

I know Diddy is an awesome character but his main representation has always been ZeRo and he is out for now because of an injury, thats what i tried to say.

Fox and ZsS would not have that much of a strong representation if it werent for their main users: Larry and Nairo.

For what i read you do disagree with what i said (and i would really like to know in which points you disagree ) and thats ok, but do you really think that ZsS is out of the top 5 ?...cuz i dont see how is that possible (as of now of course).

P.D. Sorry for the replies, i wont do that again.

You gotta do what you gotta do to defend your character.

 

[jespoke]

I know Diddy is an awesome character but his main representation has always been ZeRo and he is out for now because of an injury, thats what i tried to say.

Fox and ZsS would not have that much of a strong representation if it werent for their main users: Larry and Nairo.

For what i read you do disagree with what i said (and i would really like to know in which points you disagree ) and thats ok, but do you really think that ZsS is out of the top 5 ?...cuz i dont see how is that possible (as of now of course).

P.D. Sorry for the replies, i wont do that again.

Looking back i don't know why i worded it like i disagreed with much, the only other thing really is that i think you (and many others) overstate his recovery problem, just like people tended to do with Diddy way back when.
It is not actually THAT often he ends up offstage without limit, with the opponent having both the position and tools to punish it (because the big disjointed hitbox makes it more awkward than it seems).

 

[xDantieLx]

You gotta do what you gotta do to defend your character.

Im just saying how things are imo, i mean is just the minority that thinks she is out of top 5 but still, her overall results says that she is good enough to be inside of the top 5 thats all

 

[xDantieLx]

Looking back i don't know why i worded it like i disagreed with much, the only other thing really is that i think you (and many others) overstate his recovery problem, just like people tended to do with Diddy way back when.

tbh, there are not many Diddys in my region but i do know his potential (probably No.1 when ZeRo returns).
about his recovery, i do think it is Ok-ish but i dont know too much about him.

My region is dominated by Clouds, Foxes and Sheiks lol
and a have not many problems dealing with them.

P.D. I never play for glory...just saying

 

[jespoke]

Im just saying how things are imo, i mean is just the minority that thinks she is out of top 5 but still, her overall results says that she is good enough to be inside of the top 5 thats all

Her overall results are actually really low for a top tier, but her top level results are excellent, so people are gonna rate her differently.

 

[xDantieLx]

Her overall results are actually really low for a top tier, but her top level results are excellent, so people are gonna rate her differently.

yeah, as overall i meant top level results cuz thats where she shines (and imo thats the only level that should count when making a top tier list, the best of the best)

but in another comment i admitted that she does not that well in low/mid/high level and thats because she is not as easy to use as before (i main her so i know it lol) her learning curve and mastering its harder than the other top tiers but Rosalina and maybe imo.
Specially after 1.1.5
So lets put it this way:
low/mid/high level yeah maybe No.7 (behind and )

Top level: No.4-3

Overrall: No.5 i would say.

 

[Laken64]

rushdown is the way to go with ZsS plus she is not combo food at all because of her light weight lol
in low/medium/high level plays she is not that good i'll give you that, but in top plays...she is a force to be reckoned with (Nairo, MARSS).

ZSS is by no means a rushdown character, she doesn't have the speed to overwhelm her opponents like  the best rushdown characters in the game, she fits best as a punishing character like (the other higher ranked character that fit this archetype) thriving off the mistakes of others which both Nairo and MARSS use to bring out the best of ZSS who I would say has the best punish game along with Ryu.

Also ZSS is combo food, at least at early %s due to her being a fast caller and her tall frame but not as extremely as .


Personally I'd agree on ZSS being top 5, I just don't know where I would put her in there.

 

[xDantieLx]

ZSS is by no means a rushdown character, she doesn't have the speed to overwhelm her opponents like  the best rushdown characters in the game, she fits best as a punishing character like (the other higher ranked character that fit this archetype) thriving off the mistakes of others which both Nairo and MARSS use to bring out the best of ZSS who I would say has the best punish game along with Ryu.

Also ZSS is combo food, at least at early %s due to her being a fast caller and her tall frame but not as extremely as .


Personally I'd agree on ZSS being top 5, I just don't know where I would put her in there.

combo food at VERY early % yeah lol
Nairo used her like a rushdown character at least in both EGLX and LVL UP where he was all over the place and he wasnt sacrificing her punish game at all.
Personally i use her like a rushdown and it turns out to be a good thing (of course she is not the best rushdown character, at all i know that...because she isnt but you can play like that lol)
But yeah, i guess you are right abour her being a punishing character (better than Ryu imo...and bayonetta post 1.1.6 R.I.P).

And about that top 5 placement...i would put her either No.4 or No. 5 cuz as much as i love her as a character, i dont think she is better than .
and im still unsure about . is she better or worse than him...? im not sure just yet.
if he turns out to be better than her, then ZsS is No.5, we'll see how the meta develops from 1.1.6 (hopefully the last patch)

 

[Kirby Dragons]

 

[SpaceCanary]

1:
1.5:

-1

Poor Bayo. I mean, we all knew her combos were overpowered, but that's because they didn't factor in weight or DI, only falling speed. Truth be told, I think that if that had been nerfed out in the patch alone, she wouldn't be broken anymore. Her combos would still be there, but they would be significantly harder to pull off. Instead, she basically had her combos removed, so I guess we'll never know.

 

[phire_]

1.1.5


1.1.6
Same order except is at the bottom instead of

 

[bc1910]

-1

Patch ruined her. She might not even be top 20 any more. She is currently a dysfunctional character.

 

[Xandercosm]

The nerfs did not changed her that much, of course she is not as powerful as before (she was high risk INSANE reward, now she is high risk high reward)...but she is absolutely one of the best characters in the game (No.5 at the very least). Nairo and MARSS are getting excellent results even with all of her nerfs and their playstyle hasn't changed that much tbh, rushdown is the way to go with ZsS plus she is not combo food at all because of her light weight lol
in low/medium/high level plays she is not that good i'll give you that, but in top plays...she is a force to be reckoned with (Nairo, MARSS).

Characters that are more solid than her ?
Cloud is not top 3 ( his recovery is awful SPECIALLY in top plays) Same thing with Fox and HE IS combo food for ZsS, Mario is ok but i dont see how he is better than ZsS...in anything and rosalina can be punished really hard because her featherweight and diddy...has ZeRo representation as of now.
all of them are solid characters but more than ZsS ? i would saye AS SOLID AS ZSS.

Fox and Mario overall are not better than her imo (Nairo going toe to toe and even winning against Ally and Larry is proof of how good she is)
She is in TOP 5 in a lot of tier lists.

P.D. Nairo won EGLX and LVL UP using only ZsS so there's that...

>Zero representation
>Diddy

Please kill me...

 

[xDantieLx]

>Zero representation
>Diddy

Please kill me...

It was a bad and confusing joke sorry xD.

(ZeRo rep meaning that his main user ZeRo WAS out cuz of an injury lol)

 

[Scamper52596]

1.

-1

 

[Frihetsanka]

1.

-1

 

[xDantieLx]

After Goml...

 

[Frihetsanka]

After Goml...

You forgot to rate Sonic and Bayonetta. Also, Meta Knight is currently tier 2.

 

[xDantieLx]

You forgot to rate Sonic and Bayonetta. Also, Meta Knight is currently tier 2.

Bayonetta no way is inside top 10.
To soon to put MK at No.2 just because this Tournament. He wasnt even considered top 10 before this.

 

[xDantieLx]

Thats a pretty solid top 10 for me. It will change overtime (there is not an official tier list yet so these are all personal opinions...nothing official).
As for ...top 15 maybe

 

[Frihetsanka]

Bayonetta no way is inside top 10.
To soon to put MK at No.2 just because this Tournament. He wasnt even considered top 10 before this.

You misunderstood. Meta Knight is in tier 2, not tier 1, so you're not supposed to rate him at all right now. You are, however, supposed to rate Bayonetta. You could just do what most others did and put her at the bottom of the tier and give her a -1 vote.

 

[xDantieLx]

You misunderstood. Meta Knight is in tier 2, not tier 1, so you're not supposed to rate him at all right now. You are, however, supposed to rate Bayonetta. You could just do what most others did and put her at the bottom of the tier and give her a -1 vote.

Ooooo ok, sorry bout that.
But after watching leo, i think MK is now inside top 10.

 

[xDantieLx]

-1
Done.

 

[VizionarY]

1:
-1 (sorry that the 1.1.6 patch happened Bayonetta, I don't think you deserved as many nerfs as you received but it is what it is.)

P.S: At the same time though if Bayonetta had never been nerfed, It's possible Bayonetta could have ruined the smash community as a whole and the way people perceive Bayonetta in Smash. Personally I liked the fact that she was OP as she was, but at the same time she was so strong, any player would have to play the MU so carefully and delicately in order to win one match.

 

[VizionarY]

Here, we look at a certain amount of characters per update and this depends on how many characters are in the tiers. We are currently doing tier 2. Please note, Ryu can not be voted on in this round. THIS IS 1.1.6.

Where it says "... We are currently doing tier 2..." shouldn't it say we are doing tier 1? I haven't looked at this thread in awhile, that's the main reason why i'm so confused and asking this question in the first place.

 

[xDantieLx]

ZsS is somwhere in top 5 in most of the tier lists ive seen Nice

 

[VizionarY]

ZsS is somwhere in top 5 in most of the tier lists ive seen Nice

Yeah I feel as if ZSS is one of the better top tiers out there. While some people consider her to be a weaker one, I consider her top 3 out of any characthers in the game. And even though i'd love to be bias towards my secondary (Rosalina and Luma) I can see why some people think Rosalina is top 5 not top 3.

 

[xDantieLx]

Yeah I feel as if ZSS is one of the better top tiers out there. While some people consider her to be a weaker one, I consider her top 3 out of any characthers in the game. And even though i'd love to be bias towards my secondary (Rosalina and Luma) I can see why some people think Rosalina is top 5 not top 3.

I agree bro but i do belive that rosa is top 3, even though i havent seen dabuz play in a while.
As for ZsS i main her and i love her as character but i honestly think that she is No.4 because she looses to Diddy and rosa and sheik gives her a hard time.
Im glad that most of the people agrees that she is inside the top 5 xP

 

[Tizio Random]

I edited my previous post with 1.1.6 votes, I would have done it befote but I wasn't at home. This is what I changed:

If we are voting for 1.1.5:

1.

For 1.1.6:

1.
-1

 

[Bowserboy3]

I'm voting based on the 1.1.6 patch; 1.1.5 is old stuff now.

1:
1.5:

I've split these character into two small tiers. I believe this to be the best place for them.

+1 : I'm probably flogging a dead horse (so goes the old saying), but this is indeed a countervote. Of course, we all know what's happened to Bayonetta. I played Bayonetta before the patch, and I'm not somebody who's going to drop her because of her nerfs. I've been continuing to play her and develop her, and from my experience, she's still extremely solid. She still has an above average combo game. She still has Witch Time, that when landed, allows her KO you at around 70% anywhere on stage. She still has that awesome held Nair for edgeguards, and one of the best recoveries to boot. And somehow they left her Bair in tact, and I still believe this is one of the best aerials in the game. It has decent start up, high range, high damage, KO power, safety on shield, and low landing lag. If you just spam SHFF Bair in front of an opponent, most of them run into it eventually lmao. But in all seriousness, I don't think she's quite the best character any more. I don't want to push her down into the echelons of Mewtwo/Ness tier just yet.

I don't expect this vote to do much in all honesty, but alas, I feel no need to vote anywhere else, so what else can I do?

 

[DMWN]

1:
- Contender for bottom 5 in the game imo

 

[.....]

Fox is a great character don't get me wrong. He's a better Pikachu and possibly on par with Sheik but how is he treated this highly recently?

Also, I would agree that Ryu should be higher honestly.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Guess the Bayonetta nerfs weren't that bad

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Not going to do anything, but +1 Bayonetta vote

Seriously, bottom 5 in the game? I really hope that was hyperbole because that's just plain old delusional.

As I said: we have zero clue of how bad she actually is now and won't have a clue for another 3-4 weeks.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Not going to do anything, but +1 Bayonetta vote

Seriously, bottom 5 in the game? I really hope that was hyperbole because that's just plain old delusional.

As I said: we have zero clue of how bad she actually is now and won't have a clue for another 3-4 weeks.

I would be very surprised if it wasn't sarcasm.

I mentioned in my post, but in my opinion, I think Bayonetta is just above Mewtwo now. I wouldn't put her any lower than Greninja in terms of tier list placement.