Work In Progress SWF Community Voted Tier List - 3.0 COMPLETE

[Strawbaby]

+
+
+
+
+

 

[Jeronado]

-
+
-
+

I feel like this list as two few divisions now. At least in comparison to my own personal tier list. I think Jiggs is in a tier of her own and that Ganon and Zelda are one level above her. That said I don't think Falco is in the same tier a Little Mac but I don't think he's as bad as Ganon or Zelda either. Oh well...

 

[DMWN]

+

I don't understand why so many have decided to downvote Lucas given how he placed 2nd at Karisuma 6. Hope I don't sound hostile, since perhaps not everyone knows--heck, I just found out yesterday and I'm the biggest Lucas fanboy on this thread behind Strawbaby himself.

Though I don't think he should really rise that much if at all, it's worth at least keeping him where he's at, so consider my Lucas upvote a counter-vote.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Everyone downvotes because she was in a tier of her own. Now watch as all these upvotes put back in a tier of her own.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Everyone downvotes because she was in a tier of her own. Now watch as all these upvotes put back in a tier of her own.

It makes you wonder why we do this

 

[wedl!!]

+
-

 

[VizionarY]

+ (Good combo potential, Lots of undiscovered potential)
+ (He deserves better placement due to placing 2nd at Karisuma 6)
+ (Lets be honest, Ike's deserves better than this)
+ (He deserves better placement due to placing top 8 at Karisuma 6)
+( He's better than bottom 7)

 

[Bowserboy3]

Everyone downvotes because she was in a tier of her own. Now watch as all these upvotes put back in a tier of her own.

This is because people never look what others have voted before casting their own votes. Not that it is a rule or anything, but generally, I find it a good idea to look what the votes above you have voted for. This prevents mass movements.

This is part of the reason why last time, I didn't up vote Sheik, when I really wanted to, because I saw many more votes for her.

+ (He deserves better placement due to placing top 8 at Karisuma 6)

WHAT HAVE I MISSED?!

 

[Deleted member]

Bowserboy3

bruh, don't double post

That's hella awesome Marth got into top 8 though. Anyone know where the results for that tournament are?

 

[Bowserboy3]

Bowserboy3

bruh, don't double post

That's hella awesome Marth got into top 8 though. Anyone know where the results for that tournament are?

I thought I edited my last post... seems not. I will edit that.
---

Taken from here (http://smashboards.com/threads/vayseths-voyage-karisuma-6-results-and-review.434443/) here are the top 16:

1st SHIG│9B (Bayonetta, Kansai)
2nd Taiheita (Lucas, Chubu)
3rd Atelier (Rosalina & Luma, Kansai)
4th SH (Fox, Chubu)
5th HIKARU (Donkey Kong // Bowser, Kansai)
5th Fuwa (Marth, Chubu)
7th ikep (Bayonetta, Chubu)
7th Kie (Peach, Kansai)
9th DoubleA (Villager, Chubu)
9th Earth (Pit // Corrin, Chubu)
9th Dachan (Little Mac, Chubu)
9th Sigma (Toon Link, Chubu)
13th Dio (Yoshi, Chubu)
13th Ako (Cloud, Chubu)
13th Tonsan (Sonic, Chubu)
13th Mazinger (Mario, Chubu)


Here's the full list of results: http://challonge.com/Karisuma6T



Marth in 5th, yay. And in Japan too, where Marth is almost unspoken of... sweet!

 

[Deleted member]

I thought I edited my last post... seems not. I will edit that.

I need to look for some results for this...

Edit: It looks like there are some here, after the 3rd image - http://smashboards.com/threads/vayseths-voyage-karisuma-6-results-and-review.434443/

Marth in 5th, yay. And in Japan too, where Marth is almost unspoken of... sweet!

Can we talk about a / getting in top 5??? That's impressive.

 

[Bowserboy3]

Can we talk about a / getting in top 5??? That's impressive.

I think a DK getting quite high up is not as surprising as Marth, and even more so, Bowser. IIRC, these two in particular are quite underused in Japan (I know Marth certainly is). Getting results like these could help people over there start to see more in them.

But overall, getting a top 5 placement is huge for both Marth and Bowser. I love this.

 

[DMWN]

@Feelicks knows how much of a Lucas fanboy I am. I understand that this wasn't a huge tournament and that many don't know the matchup, but I really believe in this character, and this only reinforces my beliefs.

Mekos is helping with that reinforcement as well.

 

[VizionarY]

TBH though the only reason I know the results from Karisuma 6 was because i have a friend on this website ( DMWN ) who practically knows everything about smash 4 when compared to me lmao

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

That is downright impressive a Lucas got 2nd at Karisuma 6. I wonder how packed the tourney was.

 

[Deleted member]

80 players attended Karisuma 6.

Not huge, but 9B and other notables being there is at least worthwhile.

 

[PKMudkip]

I don't know if we can still vote. If we can then...
+(still top tier whether people like it or not)
-(lack of kill moves bad MU against other characters higher except Shiek and lack of representation and results beside ESAM)

 

[CleanOgre]

+
+
-
-
- ( )

 

[Bowserboy3]

- ( )

Oh dear... you've made a terrible mistake... I know someone in particular is gonna get triggered by that vote.

But to be fair, that is a fairly reasonable vote, yeah. Don't worry about it, I'm merely pulling your leg

 

[Deleted member]

Oh dear... you've made a terrible mistake, just a fair bit of warning...

TMNTSSB4 gonna get triggered now.

Real talk, keep your vote. Downvoting the Pits is p reasonable lol

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

+
+
-
-
- ( )

Yehhhhh someone might not be so happy about that Pit and Pitoo vote.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Yehhhhh someone might not be so happy about that Pit and Pitoo vote.

TMNTSSB4 gonna get triggered now.

Real talk, keep your vote. Downvoting the Pits is p reasonable lol

Oh dear... you've made a terrible mistake... I know someone in particular is gonna get triggered by that vote.

But to be fair, that is a fairly reasonable vote, yeah. Don't worry about it, I'm merely pulling your leg

I like how everyone thinks imma flip...fully. but since I'm in a nice mood today, I'll just say these 3 things

- ( )

1. I hate you(the internet needs these every once in a while)
2. Your opinion is Booty
3. Stop being booty by eating your Booty-O Cereal

That's all...I lied

I like the fact that Earth is using both Pit and Corrin in singles, while Pittoo is for doubles I guess...but RIP to his Fox

Now I'm gone/done

 

[Xandercosm]

Can we talk about a / getting in top 5??? That's impressive.

Ding-dong slams the competition!

 

[Routa]

- Is there a change of opinion about this character? I don't think she got any buffs?
- ^^^

Here is the thing... They haven't gained any buffs recently. "Then why are people voting them up?" you may ask. Well the thing is that both of these characters are heavily underrated within the Sm4sh community. Why? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I believe both of them are still considered bad just 'cause they were considered bad since the game came. Both of these characters have the theory and MU spread to be higher... "What about the results?" you ask now. Yeah both of them lack results due to the ruleset drama. Also very few want to even try to pick them up competitively. I know couple of guys who love Swordfighter, but they would still rather use characters like Link due to them being more acceptable in Sm4sh community and the fact that he is allowed to use his full potential in every tournament. It is the volatile nature of this scene that makes Swordfighter and Gunner mains to be a rare treat (unless you live in Frii Mii zone).

Anyways time for my votes... And ofc I will keep voting Miis higher. They are still heavily underrated around here.

+ Why use Mario when you can use better Mario?
+ Why use Samus when you can use better Samus?
+ Why use Link when you can use better Link?
Kappa

I will possibly save rest of my votes for later.

 

[Xandercosm]

Maybe if Miis were allowed in tournaments, we would see their potential. It's so sad that they have been pretty much walled out from the competitive scene all this time. It's like 3 new undiscovered characters will be unlocked once we legalize them.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Maybe if Miis were allowed in tournaments, we would see their potential. It's so sad that they have been pretty much walled out from the competitive scene all this time. It's like 3 new undiscovered characters will be unlocked once we legalize them.

And then Europe will be like "haha we told you they were in the game and you didn't listen"

 

[Dinoman96]

Maybe if Miis were allowed in tournaments, we would see their potential. It's so sad that they have been pretty much walled out from the competitive scene all this time. It's like 3 new undiscovered characters will be unlocked once we legalize them.

Are they really "banned", though?

What I mean is, looking at EVO 2016's ruleset, we ARE still allowed to use the Mii Fighters...just nothing beyond their 1111 kit. That's not so much banning them as much as well, gimping them. It sucks, but I kinda see what they're going with. It's just not exactly fair that three characters are allowed to gain access to their 12 special moves while everyone else is stuck with 4, especially Palutena considering her thing was supposed to be her fully unique custom moves (but the menu doesn't allow her to use them when customs are off so oops now apparently that is completely invalidated)

 

[Bowserboy3]

Mii's aren't banned so to speak. It's the TO's and regions that can't pull their fingers out and come to a solid decision like Europe has. Just look in Europe; Mii's aren't dominating the scene. There has been no controversy or issue in allowing them. What's stopping the rest of the world following suit?

If you ask me, it's a bit pathetic why Mii's STILL aren't fully allowed.

 

[Dinoman96]

Mii's aren't banned so to speak. It's the TO's and regions that can't pull their fingers out and come to a solid decision like Europe has. Just look in Europe; Mii's aren't dominating the scene. There has been no controversy or issue in allowing them. What's stopping the rest of the world following suit?

If you ask me, it's a bit pathetic why Mii's STILL aren't fully allowed.

I mean, like I said, it just isn't exactly highly fair that three characters on the roster get 12 specials and different movesets while everyone else is stuck with four specials and thus one moveset.

You might say "well, that's their gimmick" and "banning their moves is like banning Ryu's SF inputs, Mac's KO Punch, Lucario's aura, etc", but the thing about that is, there's no way to prevent Little Mac from using his KO uppercut, there's no way to stop Cloud from using his Limit Break, there's no way to get rid of Rosalina's Luma from showing up, etc. There IS, however, a way to prevent Mii Fighters from having multiple movesets, and that is by confining them to one. If the Brawler had a way to access his alternate specials during the middle of the round, then sure, there's no way to ban that, but stuff like equipping different moves is something that happens outside of the game.

And also, I just think it kinda sucks for Palutena. People want Miis to have their customs because "it bails them out of bottom tier and adds more viable characters", "you don't have to unlock them like the other customs", "they're actually different moves and not variations", "it's their gimmick", etc...and literally all of that can apply to Palutena as well. Like Miis she has fully unique specials all unlocked from the start that improve her tremendously, and going by the way they were presented in her trailer, how her trophy states that "she's very adaptable—you can customize her into a long- or close-range fighter!" , how her customs are the only ones they even bother to mention in the in-game loading tips (Miis aside), and once again how they're unlocked from the start, customization was supposed to be a big part of her character too. From a gameplay standpoint, there's no real difference in allowing Palu and one of the Miis to utilize their customs...but oops, unlike the Miis, the game menu makes her turn customs on so now no one is willing to fight for her. Basically we'd be blessing Mii mains but telling Palutena players to piss off because "the menu", even though they function identically beyond that...

Here's one thing I could see might happen: The Miis are given a single moveset to work with, as voted by the community. This would give Mii players a much more optimal moveset to work with, but that would be the only moveset they get to work with, like you know, the rest of the cast.

 

[Routa]

Here's one thing I could see might happen: The Miis are given a single more optimal moveset to work with, as voted by the community. This would give Mii players a much more optimal moveset to work with, but that would be the only moveset they get to work with, like you know, the rest of the cast.

Yet they would still be restricted to 1 set. It doesn't change anything expect the viability of the character. Also many Mii mains are against this idea. Why? Might have something to do with playing with YOUR Mii and not someone's els. For example 1332 is considered to be "the best" set for Swordfighter. Yet there are a lot of Swordfighters that use other sets than that like 2331, 1323, 3231 etc. Why aren't they using the most optimal set? It might have something to do with enjoying only specific set. The very idea of Miis is to have a character that you can customize for your liking if you don't find any other character that you like to play as. For example I would love to play as character that wields a sword. I can pick from . Yet none of these characters feel right for me. But you know which character does? and more specific 1323 set. Like I said the very idea of Miis is customization. This can been seen from many Nintendo's Smash Showcases. They even mention that you can pick from 3 different SPECIAL moves instead of 1 with every other character.

And could you not use the "fainess" argument? It has no stand in arguments like these. Would it be fair not to allow people to use the character they like? Should we ban Character X 'cause you don't think its gimmick is fair?

 

[Dinoman96]

Yet they would still be restricted to 1 set.

Just like the rest of the cast.

And could you not use the "fainess" argument? It has no stand in arguments like these. Would it be fair not to allow people to use the character they like? Should we ban Character X 'cause you don't think its gimmick is fair?

I just said that nobody cares about stuff like Ryu's SF inputs and Rosalina's Luma because they happen in-game and there's no way to turn them off. With the Mii Fighters, there is a way to get rid of their gimmick, and that is by confining them to a single moveset, which is something done outside of the game.

I mean, at the end of the day, outside of them being not unlocked from the start (Palutena notwithstanding) and not being accessible when customs are off, selecting Mii specials isn't that different from selecting custom specials. Once again, from a gameplay standpoint there's no difference in allowing a Mii Brawler to use Helicopter Kick and allowing Mario to use Fire Orb.

 

[Routa]

I just said that nobody cares about stuff like Ryu's SF inputs and Rosalina's Luma because they happen in-game and there's no way to turn them off. With the Mii Fighters, there is a way to get rid of their gimmick, and that is by confining them to a single moveset, which is something done outside of the game.

So let's also add a rule where Ryu players aren't allowed to use heavy versions of each hit. But like you said...

...nobody cares about stuff like Ryu's SF inputs and Rosalina's Luma because they happen in-game and there's no way to turn them off.

You cannot turn Mii specials off either. You would have to add a extra unnecessary rule for that.

Also like I said before Mii community is highly against this "the best set compromise". We are already willing to be restricted to Guest size. We are already giving up so much just for a sake of "fairness". It is not a "compromise" if other side disagrees.¨

I will just say this thread isn't for arguments like these. I suggest dropping this argument while we can. Also there has already been so many posts about the Miis and the rulesets and suggest you to check out thous.

 

[Bowserboy3]

For me, Mii FIghter's special variants appear even with "Customs Off". That alone is enough for me. Mii's should be allowed whatever custom moves they desire.

Now, as for sizes, that is debatable. I think Guest size Mii is fair enough. The moves aren't really the problem, it's just settling on a size.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

First off, there's another japanese tournament starting at 7pm(didn't say pacific or anything like that).

And lastly...

none of these characters feel right for me.

 

[DoctorLuigiIsIn]

Wow, Bayonetta is that overpowered?

+ to
I thought he was better than Marth. What happened? Is it because he gets destroyed by projectiles?

 

[IndigoSSB]

Here is the thing... They haven't gained any buffs recently. "Then why are people voting them up?" you may ask. Well the thing is that both of these characters are heavily underrated within the Sm4sh community. Why? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I believe both of them are still considered bad just 'cause they were considered bad since the game came. Both of these characters have the theory and MU spread to be higher... "What about the results?" you ask now. Yeah both of them lack results due to the ruleset drama. Also very few want to even try to pick them up competitively. I know couple of guys who love Swordfighter, but they would still rather use characters like Link due to them being more acceptable in Sm4sh community and the fact that he is allowed to use his full potential in every tournament. It is the volatile nature of this scene that makes Swordfighter and Gunner mains to be a rare treat (unless you live in Frii Mii zone).

Anyways time for my votes... And ofc I will keep voting Miis higher. They are still heavily underrated around here.

+ Why use Mario when you can use better Marip?
+ Why use Samus when you can use better Samus?
+ Why use Link when you can use better Link?
Kappa

I will possibly save rest of my votes for later.

I thought they were 1111 default miis, I changed my mii votes to other characters after someone corrected me.

 

[420quickscoper]

Wow, Bayonetta is that overpowered?

+ to
I thought he was better than Marth. What happened? Is it because he gets destroyed by projectiles?

Roy has a lot of flaws, and, in addition he has the overall weakest results in the game.

 

[DoctorLuigiIsIn]

Roy has a lot of flaws, and, in addition he has the overall weakest results in the game.

Now that I think about it.

• Weak to shields
• Weak to projectiles
• Poor grabs
• Poor range

Not looking good is it

 

[420quickscoper]

Now that I think about it.

• Weak to shields
• Weak to projectiles
• Poor grabs
• Poor range

Not looking good is it

I think one of the biggest problems is that he can't approach, and he doesn't have any good auto cancels on his aerials(therefore that can make it uncomfortable playing Roy, too!) So, yeah. Roy is a character that's suppose to do rushdown, but he just really can't do it well, and he can't do any other style well, either...
I think that all of that is to put Roy in bottom 5 honestly.

 

[TimG57867]

Roy has a lot of flaws, and, in addition he has the overall weakest results in the game.

What? Where did you hear that?

1. Here's a spread sheet from the Roy forums themselves.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uINVBF6g0H0zixaQp1oYkYZgg4oMPD4Wf5wlGZpDOq0/edit#gid=0


2. He isn't even Bottom 5 when it comes to Bracket Presence:

http://smashboards.com/rankings/smash-for-wii-u.8/league/teams

3. And his recent brackets aren't even that awful.

http://smashboards.com/rankings/smash-for-wii-u.8/league/team?rank=0&value=0&team=roy

For instance, he got 2nd at a regional with 69 in attendance and on a solo run.

(Although, even the Roy players did concede that the buffs have probably made Marth a stronger character than him.)

Please guys. A lot of stuff in regards to Roy was well covered on page 260. Let's not start another Roy debate.