Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[bobadz]

I think that the 3DS Smash Bros will come out first. This one will not be able to have everything that the Wii U one will have, so it's no point in making them they same game. I think that the 3DS one and Wii U one will be their own version of the game. I already know that characters like Mario and Link etc. will be in both. Therefore, they will be able to connect in that sort not way.

You still didn't tell me where the official Nintendo site says smash 3DS is coming soon?

So when the roster thread opens will all the off-topic BS go back there, or will it stay in this thread?

I hope not

 

[volbound1700]

I am not sure if I contributed to the Smash 4 Roster thread lockage but if so, I am sorry.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I think that the 3DS Smash Bros will come out first. This one will not be able to have everything that the Wii U one will have, so it's no point in making them they same game. I think that the 3DS one and Wii U one will be their own version of the game. I already know that characters like Mario and Link etc. will be in both. Therefore, they will be able to connect in that sort not way.

I fear the connection will be simply "You have both versions? Well then here you have this special trophy, good job!".
Not a problem for me since I will buy them both even if they come out the same day, but it would be pretty lame.

 

[ChronoBound]

With Mario, mind you that you're comparing a game that was sold at around the peak of the Wii's life cycle to a launch game. Completely different circumstances with one having an inherently larger user base than the other. Combining franchise fatigue (and we all know it's there) with a fresh starting console is going to result in less sales. We'll have to see though as Mario games do have long lasting legs so who knows.

.

WarioWare Touched was a launch title (along with Smooth Moves) and they were the highest selling games in the WarioWare series in Japan. Melee was released merely two months after the GameCube's launch and ended up being the highest selling game for the console. A game releasing early in a system's lifespan does not mean it will sell poorly. To the contrary, if the game has long-lasting appeal the game will have legs to which the game will sell all throughout that game's life cycle.

However, you are correct about the phenomenon of "dropoff" from console to console. Layton, Final Fantasy, Phoenix Wright, Brain Age, Starfy and Nintendodogs all saw this phenomenon. However, the dropoff for Mario U and Nintendo Land (and the bombing of Game & Wario and DQHD) shows something more than dropoff at play.

The GameCube had an extremely low installbase in Japan (4.1 million was its lifetime sales there), yet software selling over 300K (and over 500K) was not uncommon. By comparison, the only Wii U title to have sold over 300K in Japan so far has been New Super Mario Bros. U.

The primary reason I brought attention to Game & Wario bombing is several things, all of which pertaining to Smash Bros. directly or indirectly:
1. It shows the Wii U is struggling A LOT. If the Wii U continues to perform as poorly as it does now, or only has a small recovery, there is a very good chance Iwata will no longer be the president at Nintendo by the end of 2014.
2. Iwata stepping down from Nintendo has implications on the future of Smash Bros. One is that Iwata is very close with Sakurai (Sakurai has worked under Iwata since he was a teenager), and it was Iwata's insistence that Sakurai even came back for Brawl (and possibly Smash 4 as well). With Iwata gone from Nintendo's leadership, there is a good chance that Sakurai will not come back for Smash 4 (or at the very least not direct it).
3. Iwata leaving or the Wii U have a rocky future means that Sakurai will not have the option to delay Smash 4 into 2015.
4. Sakurai may be pressured into trying to give more "pull" to the Wii U version of Smash 4 since that console is struggling far more than the 3DS (although the 3DS is definitely not doing exceptionally well in the West).
5. The continued poor performance of the Wii U will have long reaching consequences to the future of Nintendo as a company as a whole, and by extension the future of the Smash Bros. franchise.

 

[volbound1700]

I wish Nintendo had gone through with the Star Fox vs. Metroid crossover. Oh well, at least they cross over in Smash.

The 3DS one may not have any third parties, may have a roster in the 30s, and likely may not have a lot of features the Wii U one may have in it. I could be wrong then again.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I am not sure if I contributed to the Smash 4 Roster thread lockage but if so, I am sorry.

We were all pretty much off topic, still I don't understand the lock anyway. Sounds like we've been grounded like kids. This forum has some very strict rules really.
In two months the game makes its first appearance, it's obvious that for now to keep the forum alive we have to talk about pure useless speculations or something else entirely. I don't see the problem in that.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

For story mode, as I said there needs to be more explanation about stuff. Not necessarily about how all the Nintendo worlds are fused or whatever, but basic explanations for character motivations and not having characters just show up would be good. Having characters actually communicate would help with this a whole bunch. I don't really get why SSE didn't have dialogue of some kind: most of Nintendos protagonists aren't actually silent. Really the only true silent protagonists that come to mind are PT, Link, and Mario/Luigi to an extent. Most of the other characters can talk in some way, even if they aren't voiced.

Also, I'm in favour of the next story being told Rashomon style with each character having their own storyline to play through.

We were all pretty much off topic, still I don't understand the lock anyway. Sounds like we've been grounded like kids. This forum has some very strict rules really.
In two months the game makes its first appearance, it's obvious that for now to keep the forum alive we have to talk about pure useless speculations or something else entirely. I don't see the problem in that.

The problem(I think, anyway) was that we were talking about non-roster stuff in the roster thread. M&SG told us to move our discussion here a couple times before the lock.

 

[bobadz]

We were all pretty much off topic, still I don't understand the lock anyway. Sounds like we've been grounded like kids. This forum has some very strict rules really.
In two months the game makes its first appearance, it's obvious that for now to keep the forum alive we have to talk about pure useless speculations or something else entirely. I don't see the problem in that.

Be thankful for the calm, before the idiotstorm.

As for story mode, I'd be content with just classic mode with each character having a unique ending.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I don't think the big problem in the Emissary was the story. The mode lacks of variety and it's incredibly boring, without replay value imho. The fact that sometimes the game offered different paths was interesting, but it was a simple swap between Peach and Zelda in the cutscenes. Terribly lame.

 

[FalKoopa]

I'll quote one of my posts on how the story mode should be improved:

Emphasizing the relationship between the characters.

For example: Mario and Luigi never interacted in the SSE at all. Same with Meta Knight and Kirby, Mario and Wario, Wolf and Fox/Falco, etc etc.

I found the SSE very lacking in this regard. The only noticeable ones were DK/Diddy and Ness/Lucas and to a lesser extent, Fox/Falco, Link/Zelda and Mario/Peach.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I don't think the big problem in the Emissary was the story. The mode lacks of variety and it's incredibly boring, without replay value imho. The fact that sometimes the game offered different paths was interesting, but it was a simple swap between Peach and Zelda in the cutscenes. Terribly lame.

The problems were a mix of the story and the levels. The story was too vague with character motivations, and the decision to make everyone silent was a MAJOR misstep. However, I agree the big problem was the gameplay. Too much redundancy and repetitiveness. I feel it would have been good to have a few levels with different or unique goals to break things up, like perhaps stealth segments for Snake and ZSS levels. Splitting up the game into intersecting storylines would help with this IMO, because you'd only be playing a few levels of one type at a time instead of marathoning through a whole bunch.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

SSE had some wierd design choices. The premise kind of works, but the way it was executed, the portrayal of most characters, the world and generally the mode itself wasn't really worth the hype Sakurai tried to give us back when they announced it first time. Why they went with making Kirby-characters the key characters to advance the plot, create bunch of forgettable generic enemies (which are at times expys of Kirby-enemies even) and had a long yet repetitive and bland gameplay is beyond me. I mean even the way teams gathered together had not much resolution and some conflicts were just put off with a single Smash-fight.

I still love the DK and Spacey crew's adventures since it had most of the good stuff we expected from SSE (Rayquaza, fun and great character interaction and portrayal, the only instances of Nintendo-enemies in the stage.)

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well, we might as well **** up this thread.

One thing I will point out regarding to the Wii U is that we only know about vague hints for varies games like Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem, Yoshi's Epic Yarn, and X. The software is there, but the Wii U desperately needs release dates in order to bring in the anticipation and make the system worth buying. At the moment **** teasing is not a smart idea.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm actually glad M&S guy jumped in and locked the thread for now since we were about to fall into the "Nintendo is doomed" territory.

Nintendo is not doomed. At worst, Nintendo is in for a rough ride on the home console side of things for this generation, and Iwata will likely step down (which by extension means that Sakurai probably will not return for Smash 5). I think Nintendo's next console will be something that integrates handhelds and home consoles together.

Read my previous post about the implications for Smash Bros. due to the Wii U selling poorly and Iwata possibly stepping down.

 

[Frostwraith]

Wow, the Roster Discussion Thread is locked.

But you all moved here, so... the topic is story mode? Count me in.

SSE could have been a bazillion times better if the story had more Nintendo enemies and stuff. Ganondorf, why didn't you send your typical Octorok and Moblin minions?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

SSE had some wierd design choices. The premise kind of works, but the way it was executed, the portrayal of most characters, the world and generally the mode itself wasn't really worth the hype Sakurai tried to give us back when they announced it first time. Why they went with making Kirby-characters the key characters to advance the plot, create bunch of forgettable generic enemies (which are at times expys of Kirby-enemies even) and had a long yet repetitive and bland gameplay is beyond me. I mean even the way teams gathered together had not much resolution and some conflicts were just put off with a single Smash-fight.

I know. Srsly. I mean, it wasn't as bad as the story or gameplay problems, but the enemies were seriously lame.

I still love the DK and Spacey crew's adventures since it had most of the good stuff we expected from SSE (Rayquaza, fun and great character interaction and portrayal, the only instances of Nintendo-enemies in the stage.)

Yeah, the stuff with the Kongs was the best stuff in SSE. With stuff like Bowsers army stealing DKs banana hoard and that flying skiff level(the one where Fire Field plays), which IMO was the BEST LEVEL IN THE GAME(Mostly because of the music though), the DK crew had some of the best stuff in the story.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I think he was referring to the people that constantly think that Nintendo is doomed everytime they make any mistakes. It's kind of a forced meme, especially among the Sony fans.

 

[Vintage Creep]

That's true, but it's also true that I found nice to connect characters which have nothing to do with each other, like Mario/Pit, or Link/Yoshi.
Anyway, the perfect way to do things is imho:

- Make an arcade/classic/whatever mode in which each character has its own little story related exclusively to the franchise he's coming from. A cutscene at the beginning and one at the end should be enough, but have to be in the style of the franchise they come from. The story can be pretty stupid too, something like "Mario has to save Peach" stupid. Nothing like "Every character has to defeat enemy X" like in most fighting games out there. The matches too will be themed. If some characters don't have enough to do something like this (for example Ice Climbers), they can meet other characters from different franchises. For example though, the cutscenes of IC has to be in 8-bit. Normal length no more than 10 minutes.

- Make a story mode à la Subspace Emissary with the right tweaks obviously. The enemy can be original but imho has to be related to Nintendo in some way. I opened a thread a while back of a character which would also be playable in the game itself, some sort of nerd which uses Nintendo peripherals to attack and command the Hands. The story can pretty much write itself, really. It must feature more normal enemies, not only Goombas and Koopas. More levels have to be based on other Nintendo franchises. The normal length can be actually low, like 2/3 hours, but the mode has to offer more paths maybe leading to different endings. Something à la Lylat Wars but more elaborate. The cutscenes can be in just one style like Brawl. And writing must be there yes, especially when Pit and Palutena show up for example. The story doesn't need to be too elaborate though, it's still a fighting game. Villain pops up and you have to defeat him is enough for a subject imho. Easter eggs and nods to Nintendo games are more important. Oh and yes, the villain can/should be original, but the common enemies HAVE to be pre-existent. I ****ing hated the Subspace Army, some of them were OK but the majority was just lame and boring-looking.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

At the moment I'm just sorta worried and curious of what Nintendo's doing. I mean, this kind of a secretive advertisement hasn't done too well on Wii U. And some design choices which still irk me (GBA-games on Wii U. What?)

And we could use NPCs across the Nintendo-games too in the story mode. They could aid the heroes around. Not really there fighting, but they are there to help them still.

 

[Frostwraith]

GBA games on Wii U VC is VERY questionable. Seriously, what the hell.

3DS ambassadors had GBA games and they put GBA games on Wii U! What kind of wicked logic is that?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

And we could use NPCs across the Nintendo-games too in the story mode. They could aid the heroes around. Not really there fighting, but they are there to help them still.

YES. This would be so good. One idea I had for something like this is for Snake to have some of his support team(probably just Otacon) be able to contact him via codec during Snakes levels. Actually, having Snake being able to call other characters via codec would be interesting.

Spoiler

I could totally see Dedede filling the role that "Deepthroat"/"Mr. X" did in MGS/MGS2.

 

[Vintage Creep]

GBA games on Wii U VC is VERY questionable. Seriously, what the hell.

3DS ambassadors had GBA games and they put GBA games on Wii U! What kind of wicked logic is that?

Well now, the Gamepad looks perfect for that, no?

 

[Deleted member]

Holy ****! Derp thread gets locked and suddenly this thread has more activity that it's had in ages...

Well, at least this thread isn't a character thread so hopefully things will be lest ******** around here.

I'm actually glad M&S guy jumped in and locked the thread for now since we were about to fall into the "Nintendo is doomed" territory. For some reason I cant help but feel a little responsible for getting the the thread off track though since I stated about the whole Game & Wario business and then we went talking about sales and the Wii U. So my apologies for that in case it was my fault. ANYWAYS.... In order to prevent this thread from getting the lock hammer two, we better get back on topic. So we were still discussing the story in the storymode and how they should handle it this time didn't we?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that way about sales talk.

In regard to the WiiU doing poorly and all the sales talk.

Keep in mind that so far the WiiU during its 3 months release has outsold the PS3 and 360 during their 3 months release, AND we're in a global recession. Honestly, Nintendo isn't doing as bad as people say.

Sure, it's not doing as good as the Wii, but you shouldn't expect it to be.

As for Game & Wario, while it's seems like a good title, it's no console seller. The problem with the WiiU is that Nintendo ****ed up the launch. People have no incentinve to buy one yet, so people are waiting. The only game that is a MUST BUY for that console atm is MonHun 3U, but that's on 3DS as well, which many people own. Wait for Bayonetta, and WWHD to come out, the WiiU will see increased sales by then. As will G&W, which seems like a neat title to own once having the console.

 

[Frostwraith]

Well now, the Gamepad looks perfect for that, no?

3DS looks equally as perfect, so it's still demented logic to but GBA games on Wii U.

GBA was a portable system and Wii U is a home console. Do not forget.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Well now, the Gamepad looks perfect for that, no?

Still, it would make way more sense for the handheld VC games to be on the handheld system, no? IDK, maybe they're hoping it would boost Wii U sales. I can't think of any reason why the 3DS wouldn't be able to emulate GBA games.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Aren't they on both? I don't know really, I don't actually care that much.

 

[Frostwraith]

Aren't they on both? I don't know really, I don't actually care that much.

Other people care. What's the logic behind putting handheld games on a home console instead of a handheld system that already has GB and GBC games available to buy on the eShop?

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Aren't they on both? I don't know really, I don't actually care that much.

They've only confirmed it for Wii U so far, though they haven't said anything about them being on 3DS.

 

[Vintage Creep]

What games are you talking about?

 

[volbound1700]

SSE had potential but the villians were really lacking and the levels got less memorable as you went along. I wish they had left off the replay part at the end totally as well.

I did love the DK/Diddy first level because it reminded me so much of DKC outside of the SSE/Mario enemies. I also did like some of Samus/Pikachu levels. The boss fights were fun as well.

 

[Deleted member]

Other people care. What's the logic behind putting handheld games on a home console instead of a handheld system that already has GB and GBC games available to buy on the eShop?

Well, I'm surprised there are GBA games out there people haven't played. GBA emulation is even easier than SNES emulation. I played most of the GBA library... in 2006-ish. When people say they wanna buy GBA games, I just say "why," it's something just so in the back of my mind as the GBA is not something I even care about anymore.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

What games are you talking about?

Nintendo has confirmed that GBA VC games will be available at some point for the Wii U. They haven't named any specific titles yet.

Well, I'm surprised there are GBA games out there people haven't played. GBA emulation is even easier than SNES emulation. I played most of the GBA library... in 2006-ish. When people say they wanna buy GBA games, I just say "why," it's something just so in the back of my mind as the GBA is not something I even care about anymore.

Because not everyone pirates games. Also, not everyone owns a PC gamepad.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

It doesn't really make sense to me too. Hell, we have L and R-buttons on a 3DS. And if we got about over 6 consoles to play with on Wii U's VC ranging from 8 to 64-bit, then why can't we have a 32-bit handheld games aside from 4 8bit-console games?

I dunno but it's like they're really downplaying VC by selling us some super-old stuff (and we so wish to play GBA-games more IMO.)

 

[Vintage Creep]

Nintendo has confirmed that GBA VC games will be available at some point for the Wii U. They haven't named any specific titles yet.

I guess they'll come out on the 3DS too. Related to this topic, I hope Nintendo makes possible a cross-buy like Sony is doing between PS3 and Vita. Obviously only for the VC. Like "Buy Punch-Out!! on the Wii U and download it free on the 3DS". Would make perfect sense.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I dunno but it's like they're really downplaying VC by selling us some super-old stuff (and we so wish to play GBA-games more IMO.)

Nintendo has really dropped the ball with the VC. There's a number of fairly obvious holes in its library, and at this point the only people releasing games for it is SNK.

 

[Deleted member]

So the other thread got locked, eh?

Well, on the subject of SSE, has it already been brought up at some point that the design of the Ancient Minister is eerily similar to AncientWisemon?

I wonder if it was intentional or coincidental.

 

[volbound1700]

Nintendo has really dropped the ball with the VC. There's a number of fairly obvious holes in its library, and at this point the only people releasing games for it is SNK.

I agree totally with that statement. It started out so well and the first 2-3 years on Wii were great but then they stopped having good titles.

I dled mostly 64 titles since I never owned it but my VC downloads are: Ocarina of Time, Mario 64, Majora's Mask, Kirby Super Stars, and the Original Mario Kart (got it along with Majora Mask free for being Nintendo Club member).

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I guess they'll come out on the 3DS too. Related to this topic, I hope Nintendo makes possible a cross-buy like Sony is doing between PS3 and Vita. Obviously only for the VC. Like "Buy Punch-Out!! on the Wii U and download it free on the 3DS". Would make perfect sense.

I seriously hope that they make it possible to link your eShop accounts across systems. Having to re-buy my VC games is kind of understandable, but making me re-buy them for my 3DS would be uber bullsh*t.

 

[Deleted member]

Nintendo has confirmed that GBA VC games will be available at some point for the Wii U. They haven't named any specific titles yet.



Because not everyone pirates games. Also, not everyone owns a PC gamepad.

Well, if you own a PS3/360, then you own a PC gamepad. 2nd, I played those on my keyboard back in HS.

I dunno, everyone I knew back in HS did it, I just assumed it was something everyone did back then. Especially considering all the Let's Plays out there of kiddies running SNES9X, VSNES, and VBA. GBA/SNES emulation is literally like the first step people take down the long road of being a pirate. It's just... So... EASY.

Especially considering how people complain about games not being on the VC, or games not being localized. You then have fan translations and distribution.

Honestly, when games aren't made readily available for my purchase don't expect me to go the extra mile. I did that once with Jump Super Stars on the DS, payd $100 for that game because LOL Imports.

Honestly, it's ****ing bull****, and a dirty broken system. I'm surprised people play by the rules when companies aren't willing to go the mile for their purchase. You guys sure are loyal fans... I gotta say, I admire that... a bit.

 

[FalKoopa]

I wonder if it was intentional or coincidental.

Seems intentional to me. lol.