Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sure, you'll have an audience. But Smash is about celebrating Nintendo's history. Which means stuff from Nintendo should be in, as much as possible. That's a key element to the entire series.

You want to appeal to the most amount of people for this type of game. You get a lot of buyers if they see characters they want, especially recognizable ones. It brings in the most fans. Making them play well is very important, but not as important as getting them in in the first place. This has been essentially the style for each character added as well. Some were added because they had space for a clone, including Ganondorf(that's exactly why he got added too). Some may be better than others, but that's due to balancing problems or otherwise, including regular game physics being changed around. The loss of L-Cancel was rough for many, since Auto-Cancel didn't apply to all the same moves or as much. This is one of the reasons Ganondorf sucks in Brawl, since you can't cut down the lag of a lot of his moves, making him even slower than his basic speed or attacks that wouldn't normally be cancelable(like his Forward Smash).

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Truth! Why is that? Can we have that again?!

I think what we've become as consumers is the reason Sakurai is killing himself.

Edit- I think that is what makes Xenoblaze's argument valid. If the game was potent in its own right, you're going to have an audience regardless of the initial appeal.

Unfortunately, Brawl isn't really potent in it's own right and so far Smash 4 isn't shaping up to be either. It's very uninteresting and Sakurai isn't doing a good job of making it look otherwise.

To me, anyway. I'm sure a good number of you in here disagree. ¦D

 

[nLiM8d]

You're correct, Smash is a celebration of Nintendo history. Consider this- without Sakurai's genius as well as timing, Smash as we know and love may not exist.

Nintendo will always be a lucrative franchise, full of rich intellectual properties, however the essence of what makes game resonate to the masses fades quickly with the times. Smash 64, while not being the most visually astonishing games, still holds up rather well in the current day.

Smash started out as a concept, an intricate complex set of systems. The engine that the game sports didn't simply sprout around the Nintendo IP's, nor does such a thing occur with that premise. It came from the innovative mind of a developer with a vision.

You know the story, the craft was marketable, and furthermore, profitable because of the pitch

Making them play well is very important, but not as important as getting them in in the first place.

And thus, the legacy of an IP.

Unfortunately, Brawl isn't really potent in it's own right and so far Smash 4 isn't shaping up to be either.

The necessary evil of innovation and relevance. So when I bag on X/Y you'll understand where I'm comin from.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Meh, I'm not a Nintendo fan at all, so I don't really care about the celebration of it's history. I don't care about Sakurai or think he's a genius either. All I care about it playing the game and how fun it'll be. XD

I just play games that if they're fun and interesting and don't if they're not. I don't care about who made them or whatever unless they have a terrible track record. As long as they're making the games, that's all that's important. If they aren't or they stop, then oh well. There goes their importance. ¦D

The necessary evil of innovation and relevance. So when I bag on X/Y you'll understand where I'm comin from.

Not really. I think X and Y is the peak of Pokemon's franchise to be perfectly honest. It's done so much right that I truly feel the other gens can't really match up to it, which is how it should be. New installments should be an improvement and evolution from the originals and this one certainly is. :3

I don't see any issues with X/Y, so I probably won't be able to see where you're coming from. I doubt I'll really go against you, though. Just say "Ah, that's nice. I don't agree, but whatever" and keep playing my game. ¦3

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The reason it's about Nintendo is that Sakurai feared it wouldn't sell without recognizable characters. So it's always been about showing off all Nintendo has to offer, not necessarily making them accurate to the games, but just fully representing tons of Franchises in a game as best you can and in a fun way.

It's true that the battle system wasn't from a regular Nintendo series, but the Nintendo part is what made it so great. The battle system itself wouldn't do anything without the characters. And some characters aren't very good yet still popular because they're that character. As well as representing their overall franchise with nods to more than just themselves to a degree. That does have a correlation; The more characters there are, the less they show off from other characters. Ness and Lucas show off a lot of the characters' moves from their specific game each. Where as Mario and Luigi don't show off much of each game besides sometimes their own(in Mario's with Sunshine) and just general regular gameplay. However, Peach, Bowser, and Dr. Mario, the regular Mario characters(I do mean the Mushroom Symbol fully) show off other things. Dr. Mario showed off his style as if he was actually... from his own series. His moves made perfect sense to a degree. Peach showed off Super Mario Bros. 2 quite a bit, as well as Mario Golf, Super Mario RPG, and Mario Tennis. Bowser showed off the Buttstomp as well as a Fire Breath more from the 3D games instead.(he usually fired off single shots in earlier games. I think Super Mario 64 was the first time he could do more than a simple Fire Ball, but I could be wrong)

There's other examples, but these are some pretty notable ones. The whole idea is to show off tons of games in their movesets, classic or otherwise(MegaMan specifically is showing off tons off the Robot Masters and the games they appear in by default. This is a good thing.) Villager is showing off Animal Crossing and Balloon Fight as is.(and possibly Wii Sports with his Boxing Gloves and Bowling Ball, but this is subtle and also could be a reference to Punch Out!! as a unlockable Game in the GameCube version, and the Bowling Ball... makes sense when he finds a Ball Return and Bowling Pins as normal items in the AC series.)

Pokemon get this too, sometimes showing off moves from multiple Generations. Or even the Anime. Like Pikachu's Thunder Jolt, which was not only named in the Card Game, but originated as a move(this is beyond probable as it's exactly what the move is like. Super weak, runs across the ground) in The Problem With Paras, a Kanto episode.(this shouldn't be surprising, as Sakurai already said that he looks at the Anime/Movies for Pokemon choices.)

 

[nLiM8d]

If they aren't or they stop, then oh well. There goes their importance.

Goodness. Would not want to be employed for you.

@HyperFalcon

I think I discovered my new main.

It's done so much right that I truly feel the other gens can't really match up to it, which is how it should be. New installments should be an improvement and evolution from the originals

I'll say this and then leave you alone. You're saying this on the basis that you've played the game. You haven't yet had a full hands-on experience with Smash 4 yet. Things can change.

 

[IsmaR]

I usually come to this topic to stay away from walls of text.

 

[Starphoenix]

Collected all the pearls in Wind Waker HD. Second day through and am really enjoying everything I've experienced. Didn't think it would be this soon before I start asking myself whether this is my favorite 3D Zelda title, but it's getting there.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I usually come to this topic to stay away from walls of text.

On the bright side, at least it's not the Great Wall of Comment.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Goodness. Would not want to be employed for you.

Nah, this is my mindset if you're making something that you want me to buy. XD

Now if you were working under me and was trying to sell something for me, I'd do nothing but try to help you and probably wouldn't let you go unless I had no other choice. You joined up here, so you best be ready to stay for a long time. ¦3

...Hm, so I can either cast people aside easily or keep them hostage easily. I'm a little more messed up than I thought. ¦D

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@HyperFalcon

I think I discovered my new main.

Pikachu?

That doesn't actually tell me much.

 

[nLiM8d]

Nevermind, everything's cool WFT

The battle system itself wouldn't do anything without the characters.

Meh, I'm not a Nintendo fan at all

Villager is showing off Animal Crossing and Balloon Fight as is.(and possibly Wii Sports with his Boxing Gloves and Bowling Ball, but this is subtle and also could be a reference to Punch Out!! as a unlockable Game in the GameCube version, and the Bowling Ball... makes sense when he finds a Ball Return and Bowling Pins as normal items in the AC series.)

I like to see this kind of finesse to fighter profile design. Its a shame that the kind of attention to detail you'll notice off the bat are placed on characters used to promote the new iteration.

Also, out of that group of characters, you didn't mention Yoshi or Samus. Their profiles are heavily inspired by their respective games. Not that it matters that they're my two favorite Nintendo IP's

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

WTF? my video link changed entirely

Sakuraiiiiiiiiii!

Yeah, no idea what happened. Just say the character instead.

The problem is that neither of those games are immensely popular, and Power Stone barely managed a sequel. PSASBR got its sequel canned. The gameplay did not save either series. The characters didn't do much in that case either. A lot of popular choices didn't exist for PSASBR. For instance, Crash Bandicoot or Cloud.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Nevermind, everything's cool WFT

Playstation All Stars is pretty crap. Good thing I didn't buy it. ¦D

Had never even heard of Power Stone until a few months back when the Super Gaming Bros. did a Smackdown Sunday vid for it. Definitely not going to play it. XD

That aside...If there was a point trying to be made with this response, I completely missed it. ¦D;

I'll say this and then leave you alone. You're saying this on the basis that you've played the game. You haven't yet had a full hands-on experience with Smash 4 yet. Things can change.

Since when do the words "Nintendo" and "change" go together in any way shape or form? ¦D

That little jab of a joke aside, you're right. They can. That's why I'm waiting to see if anything does change along the road.

And if nothing has by the time Smash 4 comes out, or if it's a change that either doesn't interest me or I don't like, I'm not buying it. XD

There are plenty of other games out there I can play and plenty of other things I can do aside from play games. :3

 

[Starphoenix]

I wonder if Sakurai would reuse Pirate Ship with HD assets or create a new stage if he were pulling from the remake? I know the game is likely to have a stage considering Windy Hill is a stage and Toon Link's back.

EDIT: No one better diss Power Stone. That second game was legendary with all of those different items.

 

[nLiM8d]

If crash bandicoot made it into any fighting game, he'd be the sonic of the franchises.

Why do game dev's hate my childhood?

Since when do the words "Nintendo" and "change" go together in any way shape or form?

My point exactly! But then there was Yoshi's Island...

But true, its good to be pragmatic about life. You draw more people with that kind of positive output

[collapse= This one's for Iblis{No Peaking!}]

[/collapse]

 

[Smooth Criminal]

D:

MAH YOSHI'S ISLAND

Smooth Criminal

 

[FlareHabanero]

D:

MAH YOSHI'S ISLAND

MUH DIABETES INDUCING FUN PLATFORMING.

Oh and the baby and drugs.

 

[IsmaR]

I enjoyed the vore most of all.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I enjoyed the vore most of all.

That's not funny. Not even as a joke. ¦D;

You have no idea where Yoshi really stores all that tongue until you've gone inside him with it inside you.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I enjoyed the vore most of all.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Oh, right. This part.

Kinda forgot about that.

 

[nLiM8d]

That twitching frog...

 

[IsmaR]

That part was actually what I was thinking of.

Second was Yoob's stomach in Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I've never played the M&L series.

How are they?

 

[IsmaR]

frog

Spoiler

He's a very cuddly dinosaur.

@ Wave - In my experience, they are my favorite RPG sub-series as far as Mario is concerned.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Okay, not sure how this post got here, so I'll change it up. XD

Yeesh. Dat gore, Issie. ¦D

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I've never played the M&L series.

How are they?

Fun, but much more difficult than some. The mini-games can make you stuck, and the enemies can be overly hard at times. It's a very unbalanced series, honestly.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I've never played the M&L series.

How are they?

Hillarious and addictive.

Occasionally ball busting hard though.

Definately worth checking out.

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

@ Wave - In my experience, they are my favorite RPG sub-series as far as Mario is concerned.

Fun, but much more difficult than some. The mini-games can make you stuck, and the enemies can be overly hard at times. It's a very unbalanced series, honestly.

Hillarious and addictive.

Occasionally ball busting hard though.

Definately worth checking out.

Mixed feelings, eh? Sounds close to what I've heard from others.

Maybe I'll download and play the first three on emulator sometime and actually go out and buy Dream Team too. Probably get Dream Team sooner than later.

 

[nLiM8d]

I'd start with World, then test your tolerance/patience level by working your way back to the First Game. Play Yosh's Island on the side for the sake of your sanity.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I've never played the M&L series either

Although putting it like that reminds me of S&M

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mixed feelings, eh? Sounds close to what I've heard from others.

Maybe I'll download and play the first three on emulator sometime and actually go out and buy Dream Team too. Probably get Dream Team sooner than later.

Just going to note that each sequel gets far harder. The second game's final true boss requires you to have perfect reflexes to reflect back each attack. You never get a turn. The third game has a lot of touch screen mini-games, as well as controls, and they aren't easy at all. I have yet to play Dream Team, though. I've played through them, and got close to the end in the first game(in the final area even), pretty darn far in the second, and barely anywhere in the third.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Ok, who is seabass and how did you get a shiny Mawhile!?!

Mawhile is my Mega

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I'd start with World, then test your tolerance/patience level by working your way back to the First Game. Play Yosh's Island on the side for the sake of your sanity.

We're talking about the Mario & Luigi RPG games. Not the main platformers. XD

 

[nLiM8d]

I feel old.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I feel old.

But are you Cranky Kong?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Pretty sure your younger than me

 

[nLiM8d]

@psycho
Everyone says that.

@HyperFalcon

Only every day of my life.

 

[IsmaR]

Ok, who is seabass and how did you get a shiny Mawhile!?!

Mawhile is my Mega

I've been wondering this as well. Mawile is my 2nd Mega of choice, currently behind my Pinsir. Once I train this bred one with perfect IVs, that'll change.

@ Hyper - Funny enough, I consider it the easiest boss in the series since it's an all-defending, no attacking whatsoever boss. I think I might just be used to grinding significantly, or having perfect reaction time, because I've never had trouble with any of the games since the 1st.