Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[IsmaR]

I always assumed Bowser was magnetic and Master Hand was dragging him under the stage with a giant magnet.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Hoots brings up a good point because Iwata fully admitted that the only plans Nintendo had for Smash for the Wii before Sakurai stepped back into Smash (or strong armed, as I would argue) was to remake Melee with online as a mere cash grab.

 

[Hoots]

Characters are one thing, but what about the gameplay? I'm not saying it has to be perfect, but Brawl in particular was just bizarre in some of the poor design decisions in that game. Sure, the fan service went above and beyond the previous games, but certain aspects of the gameplay and even some of the modes just felt flat on their faces.

I doubt I'm the only person here that has wondered if the series would have ever been anywhere near as successful had it stayed as Dragon King. By this, I mean critical reception, not sales. Dragon King 3 would've been demolished by the players in my opinion.

@Fatman
Competitive players are a minority. No one's going to deny that, but the reason why competitive players are an important base to listen to is for balancing. The competitive players will be able to show that execution difficulty is not proportional to reward, that there are some glaring flaws with certain mechanics, and will find things the developers simply didn't intend to in the first place.

I would wager that if it wasn't Sakurai, the gameplay would have been even more ****ed. It probably would have turned into more of a Mario Party-esque game.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Hoots brings up a good point because Iwata fully admitted that the only plans Nintendo had for Smash for the Wii before Sakurai stepped back into Smash (or strong armed, as I would argue) was to remake Melee with online as a mere cash grab.

Source? Creepily interesting.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ok, Sakurai does a good job raising a standard with his games. However, it'd be good if he could trust a few close people with certain tasks, and not do everything by himself.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Source? Creepily interesting.

http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wii/ssbb/0/1

 

[TumblrFamous]

Ok, Sakurai does a good job raising a standard with his games. However, it'd be good if he could trust a few close people with certain tasks, and not do everything by himself.

That's basically how I feel.

 

[Big-Cat]

I would wager that if it wasn't Sakurai, the gameplay would have been even more ****ed. It probably would have turned into more of a Mario Party-esque game.

I wouldn't be surprised if that were to be the case. Anyway, the reason why I made that point about Dragon King is that I think the bulk of Smash's success is owed to its cast. A lot of people will say that they come for the characters and stay for the gameplay. It would probably not have ended up the same way with Dragon King, at least to the scale Smash has done. You'd have to convince them of the gameplay, not so much the cast unless the game were to craft up a story up to par with BlazBlue's which would've been very unusual for a 1999 game.

Source? Creepily interesting.

It was in the first Iwata Asks for Brawl. Back when Iwata announced a Smash Bros. for the Revolution, there was no work done with Sakurai not even aware about it. Iwata basically said that if Sakurai didn't come on board, they would have done a rerelease of Melee with online.

Ok, Sakurai does a good job raising a standard with his games. However, it'd be good if he could trust a few close people with certain tasks, and not do everything by himself.

This is what I'm thinking. I'm fine that the director decides what gets in, but it often comes across that he comes up with all the ideas. I mean, look at how there are similarities in art direction for Kirby Air Ride, Brawl, and Kid Icarus Uprising.

 

[Arcadenik]

It was in the first Iwata Asks for Brawl. Back when Iwata announced a Smash Bros. for the Revolution, there was no work done with Sakurai not even aware about it. Iwata basically said that if Sakurai didn't come on board, they would have done a rerelease of Melee with online.

The bad thing about Melee 2.0 with online is that we won't get Meta Knight, Pit, Zero Suit Samus, Wario, Snake, Ike, Pokémon Trainer Red, Diddy Kong, Sonic, Lucas, King Dedede, Olimar, Lucario, R.O.B., Toon Link, and Wolf.

But the good thing about Melee 2.0 with online is that character cuts did not happen! We kept Mewtwo, Roy, Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link! Oh, and perfect Melee gameplay where Fox is still broken.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

This is what I'm thinking. I'm fine that the director decides what gets in, but it often comes across that he comes up with all the ideas. I mean, look at how there are similarities in art direction for Kirby Air Ride, Brawl, and Kid Icarus Uprising.

I could also add "Meteos" but hum...

Anyway, when was it implied that he does the game mostly on his own and doesn't trust anyone else with certain tasks? I don't see him at least as some guy who pretty much denies any idea than his, and the team's not out there for no reason.

The thing still is that he's the man of charge, the one who molds the game into the way it is. He's not a "one-man machine". The man in charge and direction of things.

 

[Diddy Kong]

At the very least, Brawl wouldn't have been Brawl, and there would've been minimal changes from Melee. That much has been said before. I think a quote was there like, that the game wouldn't have differenciated much from Melee, but they would only add characters and stages.

I bet the Project M community wouldn't have minded this.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

At the very least, Brawl wouldn't have been Brawl, and there would've been minimal changes from Melee. That much has been said before. I think a quote was there like, that the game wouldn't have differenciated much from Melee, but they would only add characters and stages.

I bet the Project M community wouldn't have minded this.

So...a "Final Mix" of sorts with SSBM and added characters and stages?
I wouldn't have minded that either at the time.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I'M IN A GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!

My big database project is getting some good looks now, seems like we have something exciting going now and more support!

 

[IsmaR]

The Project M community wouldn't exist if Brawl wasn't so Brawl-like.

I do think just taking all the content from Brawl and reverting to Melee gameplay would've made for terrible balance issues, moreso than Brawl. At the same time, it would have been interesting and (dare I say it?) fun to experience a faster pace with Brawl's cast with (good) online.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Anyone wanna name my Rattata?

And yeah, wouldn't mind Melee 2.0 either with just a few added characters. Honestly, they could've thrown in Diddy, Ike, swapped Young for Toon Link, Lucario and I'd be more than content.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Anyone wanna name my Rattata?

Scabbers.

Harry Potter FTW!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Rattrap.

 

[FlareHabanero]

At this point in time, I just don't give a **** about anything anymore...

 

[Diddy Kong]

Scabbers.

Harry Potter FTW!

Well, I based it on that name, and combined it with yours for this awesome result:

 

[IsmaR]

*hugs Habenero*

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@Diddy: Can I name the next one?

I still say Sakurai is insisting the latest image is a whole lot of innuendo... >_>

 

[LiteralGrill]

I really am in the mood for a nuzlocke now! I was doing one in Crystal I never finished, but... I dunno. Maybe I will pick up another team quick on some other version. Pokemon Blue Nuzlocke?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

(Hey Dids I really REALLY suggest taking your Nuzlocke on Pokemon Center...)

 

[Fatmanonice]

I think a lot of problems also stem to how we really don't know how Sakurai defines "balancing." To him, balancing could refer to the characters coherently existing together in a single game and, if that's the case, he's done an exceptional job. Despite the characters coming from completely different dimensions across time and space, it's still reasonably believable that they get together in Smash Bros and, from a design standpoint, that's no small feat. Think about when Snake was first revealed. People were excited but at the same time they were concerned because they didn't know how a cigarette smoking, neck snapping solider was going to fit in with the likes of Yoshi and Pikachu. In the end, Snake worked beyond people's expectations despite by far being the black sheep of Brawl's cast.

This matter of everyone making sense together is one of the biggest criticisms that I have against Playstation Allstars. Despite trying the same idea as Smash Bros, it didn't work and wasn't as believable largely because of the overall design of the game. The characters looked more that they were simply ripped out of their own games than made to look like they had simply come together like with Smash Bros and the designs clashed way too often. It was made even more jarring by the strange decision to have the stages be mixes of different games, sometimes even being complete opposites of each other, which was visually grating and made the whole game even more unbelievable. With Smash, it's clearly different. The characters' designs are adjusted to compliment each other and the stages are made to reflect the franchises they come from and nothing else. Again, this is a lot harder than it sounds especially when you consider how Brawl had reps from 19 franchises with their own histories and unique properties to balance.

Also, as far as Brawl goes, it was a case of too many cooks spoil the broth but we still ended up with a pretty solid game that's widely on peoples' top 5 lists for the Wii at the very least. In the grand scheme of things, I think most of the disappointment came from Brawl not being as a big of an update as Melee was to the original but, to be fair, the original was bare bones because, for whatever conceivable reason, Nintendo had strong doubts that the game would meet even their most basic sales expectations. Melee was when Nintendo realized what exactly they had on their hands while Brawl was a continuation of that realization. Is Brawl flawed? Yes. Did it still turn out pretty amazing despite all the problems? Oh yes. If most games had a quarter of the problems Brawl had, they would have probably have been dead on arrival but Brawl excelled with just enough of the right things that many people forgave these glaring mistakes and noted the game as a classic.

 

[FlareHabanero]

*hugs Habenero*

So warm~

 

[Demna]

I think a lot of problems also stem to how we really don't know how Sakurai defines "balancing." To him, balancing could refer to the characters coherently existing together in a single game and, if that's the case, he's done an exceptional job.

Looking at Samus's fast F-smash and the rework on Bowser, I can tell that Sakurai is doing a good job in balancing the game. However, I still think Link is weak, as in low tier weak, but we really can't jump to conclusions regarding any character yet.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I'll be cool like Diddy!

I'll do a Pokemon Yellow Nuzlocke and write out a full length story for it in smashboards blog posts if I can get 10 likes!

 

[MargnetMan23]

I'll be cool like Diddy!

I'll do a Pokemon Yellow Nuzlocke and write out a full length story for it in smashboards blog posts if I can get 10 likes!

IF YOU CATCH A MAGNEMITE NAME IT AFTER ME XD

 

[LiteralGrill]

IF YOU CATCH A MAGNEMITE NAME IT AFTER ME XD

Not if I raise an Omastar?

 

[Demna]

I'll be cool like Diddy!

I'll do a Pokemon Yellow Nuzlocke and write out a full length story for it in smashboards blog posts if I can get 10 likes!

Name me after your Pikachu !
That's not gonna happen...

 

[LiteralGrill]

Name me after your Pikachu !
That's not gonna happen...

Never know...

 

[MargnetMan23]

Not if I raise an Omastar?

That too

 

[Jaedrik]

Moral of the story: Ya'll mother****ers need Ayn Rand.

I agree completely. . .

But I thought that article posted about Sakurai earlier was a joke, look at the site, they don't seem to have a source, and it even looks like one of those joke satire sites.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Ah screw likes, Ima do the Nuzlocke for fun! LET'S GO!

 

[Salty the SLUG]

I'll be cool like Diddy!

I'll do a Pokemon Yellow Nuzlocke and write out a full length story for it in smashboards blog posts if I can get 10 likes!

Welcome to the cool club.

 

[IsmaR]

Off the top of my head, the rarest/most WTF encounter I've ever had in a Nuzlocke was in White 2. (Spamming repels in order to bypass the cave area) In Giant Chasm, I found a Metagross in the first patch of rustling grass I could find (I really didn't care on additions to my team at that point/just wanted free Audino XP before entering the Plasma Frigate since I didn't go out of my way to grind).

Being low on Pokeballs + a catch rate of 3 (on par with legendary Pokemon) made that **** intense. It had an Adamant Nature with a perfect/31 Defense IV. I was dumbfounded at the sheer luck, considering earlier I got a freakin' Pelipper in the Route before.

I also went back and used Pokeradar in an area I missed to get a Hoppip in my Platinum Nuzlocke.

Too bad it died thee to the most painful Sheer Cold hax ever as I was randomly grinding

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

But...but...there are no Arcanines in Soul Silver! D= They're heart Gold exclusive!

http://www.serebii.net/heartgoldsoulsilver/exclusives.shtml

I have soulsilver exclusives in my heartgold. I don't see a problem with that

 

[LiteralGrill]

So, here's a little preview of my Nuzlocke, it needs a little bit of editing to spice it up a tad more, but I thought ya'll might like it, especially Demna.

Spoiler

I sit in my room, looking at the day ahead. I'm taking the challenge again.

It's easy to get suited up and ready to rumble, this isn't my first rodeo and I know the basics of what is to come for my day. First they'll ask me my name, “Capps”. I can see the look on their faces, they know why I'm here. Then they find some rival for me. It's not the first time I've had to but heads with an ignorant newbie before, and I doubt my time with Gary will be anything special compared to the past.

I have to walk by my mother as I always do. I hate the look in her eyes as I pass.

“Capps... Do you really have to do this again?”

I look away, I don't have an answer. Sometimes the primal urges of man cannot be explained.

“It's not the same as the others Capps, you don't get to pick one of three, some innocent creature is FORCED to partner with...”

I cut her off “Don't you think I know that? I wanted something new, something with a greater edge then before.”

She looks at me like she doesn't know her own son. Sometimes, I wonder if she does.

I leave right after that, I hear small noises from the house like someone is crying, I try to block it out of my head.

If you've never taken the challenge, it would be hard for you to understand the thrill. I go out to the tall grass outside of town knowing this is where my adventure would begin. I look into my future and see my past. You never forget what it looks life to see life leave their eyes. You never forget the noble sacrifice one makes to save a friend, only to have that friend fall later making that sacrifice useless. You hold life and death in your hands, and the family you create around you loves and trusts you with 'the every beat of their heart, knowing that one false move on your part could send them to their end.

For a moment I internally flinch. How can I continue to get this thrill at the expense of these Pokemon? Maybe mom is right, maybe something IS wrong with me.

But I know I wont quit, I CAN'T quit on my own, I've found an addicting drug that no amount of rehab can get me off. In a reckless moment of passion I run into the tall grass, almost hoping that some Pokemon will end it all before I can even begin to finally stop the reckless cycle. I can't stop living on the edge.

A Pikachu! One jolt would be it! I prepare for the finality I had delt so many Pokemon before me, wanting to know what they felt, what I FORCED them to feel, but then the Pokeball flies by.

“Capps, do not be a coward. I never knew you to be a coward in our previous meetings.”

“Oak...”

“You have agreed to take the challenge, now you must see it through.” He tosses me the Pokeball. “There, you have your first Pokemon.”

It pops out of it's Pokeball. I stand there startled.

“Looks like this Pokemon doesn't like it's Pokeball! How will you handle it Capps? Following you around, you can't just hide it away. It will always be there.”

I look down at it, I can see the distrust in its eyes. It knows what I am doing, and it hates me for it, hates me for taking away its freedom and putting its life into my hands.

“Professor, why did you never take the challenge again?”

He stills, I know I got to him. After his first quest he had become a scientist never to take the challenge again. I always had thought him scared but his response surprised me.

“Because I knew if I continued, I could never break the cycle. Now come along, we have to have you fight that rival of yours. You know the drill.”

He walks away towards his lab and I look down at my Pikachu hoping somehow we'll be friends.

“You need the name, a name of a friend... Demna. That will be your name. Now come along my friend, the first of many battles is about to begin.”

 

[Salty the SLUG]

My Nuzlocke-game so far... (Pearl)
I'm about to take on the first Gym

Team -
Bibarrel: Brad
Chimchar: Fire-Sage
Shinx: Beau
Geodude: Rocky
Kricketot (HM Slave): Perrie

 

[MargnetMan23]

So, here's a little preview of my Nuzlocke, it needs a little bit of editing to spice it up a tad more, but I thought ya'll might like it, especially Demna.

Spoiler

I sit in my room, looking at the day ahead. I'm taking the challenge again.

It's easy to get suited up and ready to rumble, this isn't my first rodeo and I know the basics of what is to come for my day. First they'll ask me my name, “Capps”. I can see the look on their faces, they know why I'm here. Then they find some rival for me. It's not the first time I've had to but heads with an ignorant newbie before, and I doubt my time with Gary will be anything special compared to the past.

I have to walk by my mother as I always do. I hate the look in her eyes as I pass.

“Capps... Do you really have to do this again?”

I look away, I don't have an answer. Sometimes the primal urges of man cannot be explained.

“It's not the same as the others Capps, you don't get to pick one of three, some innocent creature is FORCED to partner with...”

I cut her off “Don't you think I know that? I wanted something new, something with a greater edge then before.”

She looks at me like she doesn't know her own son. Sometimes, I wonder if she does.

I leave right after that, I hear small noises from the house like someone is crying, I try to block it out of my head.

If you've never taken the challenge, it would be hard for you to understand the thrill. I go out to the tall grass outside of town knowing this is where my adventure would begin. I look into my future and see my past. You never forget what it looks life to see life leave their eyes. You never forget the noble sacrifice one makes to save a friend, only to have that friend fall later making that sacrifice useless. You hold life and death in your hands, and the family you create around you loves and trusts you with 'the every beat of their heart, knowing that one false move on your part could send them to their end.

For a moment I internally flinch. How can I continue to get this thrill at the expense of these Pokemon? Maybe mom is right, maybe something IS wrong with me.

But I know I wont quit, I CAN'T quit on my own, I've found an addicting drug that no amount of rehab can get me off. In a reckless moment of passion I run into the tall grass, almost hoping that some Pokemon will end it all before I can even begin to finally stop the reckless cycle. I can't stop living on the edge.

A Pikachu! One jolt would be it! I prepare for the finality I had delt so many Pokemon before me, wanting to know what they felt, what I FORCED them to feel, but then the Pokeball flies by.

“Capps, do not be a coward. I never knew you to be a coward in our previous meetings.”

“Oak...”

“You have agreed to take the challenge, now you must see it through.” He tosses me the Pokeball. “There, you have your first Pokemon.”

It pops out of it's Pokeball. I stand there startled.

“Looks like this Pokemon doesn't like it's Pokeball! How will you handle it Capps? Following you around, you can't just hide it away. It will always be there.”

I look down at it, I can see the distrust in its eyes. It knows what I am doing, and it hates me for it, hates me for taking away its freedom and putting its life into my hands.

“Professor, why did you never take the challenge again?”

He stills, I know I got to him. After his first quest he had become a scientist never to take the challenge again. I always had thought him scared but his response surprised me.

“Because I knew if I continued, I could never break the cycle. Now come along, we have to have you fight that rival of yours. You know the drill.”

He walks away towards his lab and I look down at my Pikachu hoping somehow we'll be friends.

“You need the name, a name of a friend... Demna. That will be your name. Now come along my friend, the first of many battles is about to begin.”

Though the obvious downside of having a magnemite/omastar/omanyte named after me is that those will most likely be late game XD