Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I read the article and I don't think he said anything that was that much of a stretch. The man does have freakishly high (arguably neurotic) standards for his games and it has been impressive with how successful he's been at cohesively mashing more than 30 years worth of a company's history into single games.

That's still overly egotistical.

Albeit, I know nobody could make it in the same way he does, but he gives himself a bit too much credit, and shooting down a lot of potential developers like that was pretty unreasonable.

I gotta go with KumaOso on this one. That was pretty jerkish to say.

 

[Big-Cat]

Can you feel....

the burn... tonight????

- Miss Fit

Well, he felt the love last night, that's for sure.

I read the article and I don't think he said anything that was that much of a stretch. The man does have freakishly high (arguably neurotic) standards for his games and it has been impressive with how successful he's been at cohesively mashing more than 30 years worth of a company's history into single games.

To me, it's just the way that he says it that just irks me. Don't get me wrong, I think this kind of thing is anything but easy, but the articles of late seem like he's either whining about the difficulties or he's telling the idiot fanboys just how tough this kind of thing is. I guess I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

We still really need a platform fighter than can stand up to Smash Bros. The closest was PSABR and that lost steam pretty fast. Then there's the KO method, balance issues, glitches, etc.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Until someone else comes along that can do it, I have no objections to his thoughts. Honestly, this really isn't all that different from how a lot of "masters" in the video game world act. For example, Miyamoto makes similar comments almost yearly. At least he's able to back up his claims unlike developers like Warren Spector and Will Wright who continuously praise themselves even when their works don't stack up to their supposedly high quality standards.

 

[Arcadenik]

I read the article and I don't think he said anything that was that much of a stretch. The man does have freakishly high (arguably neurotic) standards for his games and it has been impressive with how successful he's been at cohesively mashing more than 30 years worth of a company's history into single games.

Sad thing is, he is right... look at Playstation All-Stars Royal Battle, Cartoon Network Punch Time Explosion, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Smash Up, and DreamMix TV World Fighters.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Sakurai has never struck me as arrogant either, in fact, he seems to be quite the opposite. The man seems to beat himself up too much over petty crap and be overly concerned with the thoughts of others to really have much of an ego.

 

[Diddy Kong]

This is where I'll be posting my Nuzlocke playthrough. Not in the Back Room, as suggested, but in the regular Pokémon Sub Forums: http://smashboards.com/threads/diddy-kongs-fire-red-nuzlocke-run-current-location-pallet-town-0-badges-0-pokémon.339989/

Also, strong personal criteria? Suuuure dude. 6 clones in Melee. Captain Ganondorf. Bad balance thus far in every game. Chain throws. Subspace Emmisarry....

Sure, Sakurai is good, but things like these? He IS sort of praising himself in that article.

 

[Big-Cat]

Sakurai has never struck me as arrogant either, in fact, he seems to be quite the opposite. The man seems to beat himself up too much over petty crap and be overly concerned with the thoughts of others to really have much of an ego.

IDK,Kid Icarus Uprising's story was done by him because he thought no one but the director could do the story proper.
http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/13/39...stories-in-video-games-honestly-irksome-to-me

Care to explain to me why we had that aliens side story then? Seems more like anime filler to me.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Spoiler

 

[Big-Cat]

This is where I'll be posting my Nuzlocke playthrough. Not in the Back Room, as suggested, but in the regular Pokémon Sub Forums: http://smashboards.com/threads/diddy-kongs-fire-red-nuzlocke-run-current-location-pallet-town-0-badges-0-pokémon.339989/

Also, strong personal criteria? Suuuure dude. 6 clones in Melee. Captain Ganondorf. Bad balance thus far in every game. Chain throws. Subspace Emmisarry....

Sure, Sakurai is good, but things like these? He IS sort of praising himself in that article.

But the high sales must surely mean they are wonderful games.

One thing that has irked me with Sakurai is that he simply refuses to put the load on others. He has these gigantic teams yet he has to be the one that comes up with every single design aspect. That's surely worked out wonderfully when you boil it all down. I mean, do you think the people at Capcom, Namco, ArcSys, etc. have ALL their decisions made by one person for what gets in or not? I think the big problem with Sakurai is that everyone's pretty much blindly praising him yet criticism is hardly brought to him.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

One thing that has irked me with Sakurai is that he simply refuses to put the load on others.

This is what bothers me the most. You don't need to do everything yourself. Trust your team. Be more humble. The games will definitely be better in the end if you work together better.

 

[TumblrFamous]

But the high sales must surely mean they are wonderful games.

One thing that has irked me with Sakurai is that he simply refuses to put the load on others. He has these gigantic teams yet he has to be the one that comes up with every single design aspect. That's surely worked out wonderfully when you boil it all down. I mean, do you think the people at Capcom, Namco, ArcSys, etc. have ALL their decisions made by one person for what gets in or not? I think the big problem with Sakurai is that everyone's pretty much blindly praising him yet criticism is hardly brought to him.

Ooh, harsh.

But I do agree with what you and HyperFalcon are saying.

 

[Fatmanonice]

IDK,Kid Icarus Uprising's story was done by him because he thought no one but the director could do the story proper.
http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/13/39...stories-in-video-games-honestly-irksome-to-me

Care to explain to me why we had that aliens side story then? Seems more like anime filler to me.

To his credit, it still worked and Kid Icarus: Uprising was still a great game, arguably one of the most memorable from this generation.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Well, Daisy won't be too happy about this.

.. You do know Mario actually was saving Daisy in one of the original game boy games right?

By this point, the whole love thing going on there is just confusing.

 

[Arcadenik]

Care to explain to me why we had that aliens side story then? Seems more like anime filler to me.

Well, we cannot exactly have tentacles and futas. Battling aliens is simply a family-friendly anime cliché.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

.. You do know Mario actually was saving Daisy in one of the original game boy games right?

By this point, the whole love thing going on there is just confusing.

...So Mario has it going on with 3 different girls? No wonder Bowser went for Peach. Mario's loaded.

 

[Fatmanonice]

But the high sales must surely mean they are wonderful games.

One thing that has irked me with Sakurai is that he simply refuses to put the load on others. He has these gigantic teams yet he has to be the one that comes up with every single design aspect. That's surely worked out wonderfully when you boil it all down. I mean, do you think the people at Capcom, Namco, ArcSys, etc. have ALL their decisions made by one person for what gets in or not? I think the big problem with Sakurai is that everyone's pretty much blindly praising him yet criticism is hardly brought to him.

What are you talking about? The man gets slammed by fans every time he steps a toe's length away from their expectations and desires. The scores of people who are still butthurt about Brawl nearly six years later is living proof of that. Also, the man gives proper credit to his team in interviews and has noted multiple times that one of the most rewarding parts of making the Smash games has been working with a wide variety of people.

 

[Oddyesy]

...So Mario has it going on with 3 different girls? No wonder Bowser went for Peach. Mario's loaded.

Wait one second. Who's the third one? Rosalina?

 

[Big-Cat]

To his credit, it still worked and Kid Icarus: Uprising was still a great game, arguably one of the most memorable from this generation.

I think there a lot of positive aspects to the game, but I don't think I'll ever completely get over that absurd control scheme. It's great for the flying portions, but I hate hate HATE it for the ground battles.

Well, we cannot exactly have tentacles and futas. Battling aliens is simply a family-friendly anime cliché.

But what purpose did that have to the main plot itself? I don't recall it particularly affecting anything later on in the story. Honestly, you could've put that as a side story.

What are you talking about? The man gets slammed by fans every time he steps a toe's length away from their expectations and desires. The scores of people who are still butthurt about Brawl nearly six years later is living proof of that. Also, the man gives proper credit to his team in interviews and has noted multiple times that one of the most rewarding parts of making the Smash games has been working with a wide variety of people.

Let's put it this way. The man is virtually out of touch with tournament players and arguably fighting game design fundamentals (why tech grabs have yet to appear is beyond me).

He may give credit to his teams, but then he'll say in other interviews that he decides what gets in and stuff like that. Who's to say that the team just implements the material he wants while he comes up with the ideas by himself? Seriously, he has this odd tendency to say one thing and then say the opposite in a future one. This can be seen greatly when the topics go on gameplay. However, I'll admit that this could be him being his stupidly vague self instead of just flat out saying something or explaining it.

Like the whole balancing for intermediate players. There are so many ways to interpret that. Some positive, some negative.

 

[Fatmanonice]

That's what a director does though. Directors decide absolutely everything that goes into a game and they "direct" the direction the game goes, down to the tiniest details. It's almost never a democratic process and, even when it is, he still makes the final decision. That's simply the job description, not a matter of ego.

 

[Big-Cat]

That is true. However, just how many directors go to the point where they are the ones who do ALL THE BALANCE BY THEMSELVES? I'm just happy that he finally freaking realized that doesn't work. It's one thing to decide what changes are made and such, but it's one thing when you don't have anyone else involved in that decision making process.

 

[IsmaR]

That's actually my favorite position to hold for a plethora of reasons. Plus I sleep like that naturally.

 

[Oasis_S]

Sakurai doesn't make Melee 2.0, must be egotistical.

Compelling, Kuma.

 

[Curious Villager]

Wait one second. Who's the third one? Rosalina?

Pauline I would guess.... :/

 

[Big-Cat]

@Oasis
When have I ever said I wanted Melee 2.0.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pauline I would guess.... :/

Yep.

I wasn't counting Rosalina, to note. I forget if she even is kidnapped at all. :shrug:

 

[IsmaR]

Who doesn't want Melee 2.0? I just don't want Smash 4 to be it.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Sakurai doesn't make Melee 2.0, must be egotistical.

Compelling, Kuma.

He's making a mix of Brawl and Melee though.

And ya know, I used Brawl OFTEN to introduce people to the series when I can. My wife was the only exception because I didn't have my wii at the time, so she played Melee. For what Sakurai made Brawl to be, he did a damn good job, same for Melee and 64. Now he's got tons of new people introduced to the game, and we get the middle ground. Sakurai is a crazy scientist kinda smart

 

[Salty the SLUG]

I'm back - so, how is everyone?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'm back - so, how is everyone?

People are being the dumbest creatures alive.

 

[Fatmanonice]

He's out of touch with tournament players because they represent a small minority of the people who actually buy the games. People like us who bother to go to tournaments and come on forums to talk about the games for days on end are not the typical people who slap down money for each installment. He doesn't have any specific reason to particularly cater to serious competitive players because the games would still sell strong if they just suddenly disappeared and people still play the games for years on end, even when new installments come out because its widely agreed that they're always strong titles. There's also the fact that the games allow you to customize gameplay to your liking anyways so if people want to make the games competitive, they'll always find a way.

 

[Hoots]

I think it's pretty ridiculous that anyone would call Sakurai a jerk or accuse him of being "too egotistical" (which is something I also take issue with since 'ego' should not have the negative connotation that it does). The man is a genius. Regardless of whatever flaws you have with any of the games he makes, his brilliance and work ethic make him one of the last great prime movers in the video game industry. He has every right to want to have full control over his magnum opus. A producer, a man of the mind, finds motivation in the quality that he creates and will do everything in his power to protect what's his and maintain the level of quality that only he can bring.

You can bet your ass that if anyone but Sakurai took over Smash bros, every single character that was added would be done so to promote new games. Empty and shallow flavor-of-the-month characters would be the norm, and each iteration would be a revolving door. Totally undeserving but popular characters like Waluigi (calm down, I'm just making a point) would be playable immediately. We're lucky that someone with such massively high standards is helming Smash.

Sure, he's made some mistakes, but that happens with anyone. What really makes a true prime mover is that they learn from those mistakes. Sakurai has a team helping him balance and axed story mode. In fact, his at-times painfully overexpressed humility is possibly one of his biggest flaws. He created one of the greatest (or greatest) video game franchises in history, and it is his right to be immensely proud of that achievement.

Moral of the story: Ya'll mother****ers need Ayn Rand.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

But the high sales must surely mean they are wonderful games.

One thing that has irked me with Sakurai is that he simply refuses to put the load on others. He has these gigantic teams yet he has to be the one that comes up with every single design aspect. That's surely worked out wonderfully when you boil it all down. I mean, do you think the people at Capcom, Namco, ArcSys, etc. have ALL their decisions made by one person for what gets in or not? I think the big problem with Sakurai is that everyone's pretty much blindly praising him yet criticism is hardly brought to him.

I don't think it's entirely that? This almost sounds like he's working on the game a lot way alone (if you get me), which he isn't. Like Fatman said, he primarily directs the way the game's done, how he wants things to be portrayed, etc. At least it's more probable from the team he's having right now. And also, indeed he should put out the design aspects most of the time (and then the team would work around with 'em along with him).

I dunno what went whack with Brawl but Johnny(knight) has time to time suggested it has something to do with Game Arts (who also worked on Brawl).

 

[FlareHabanero]

I dunno what went whack with Brawl but Johnny(knight) has time to time suggested it has something to do with Game Arts (who also worked on Brawl).

More like a combination of every studio involved with Super Smash Bros. Brawl. There was like 5 or 6 studios involved with that game, and when there is more of a division more complications will come up and there will be a greater risk of inconsistency.

 

[IsmaR]

People just refuse to believe they legitimately intended it to be this way, and thought the majority would like it.

 

[Big-Cat]

You can bet your *** that if anyone but Sakurai took over Smash bros, every single character that was added would be done so to promote new games. Empty and shallow flavor-of-the-month characters would be the norm, and each iteration would be a revolving door. Totally undeserving but popular characters like Waluigi (calm down, I'm just making a point) would be playable immediately. We're lucky that someone with such massively high standards is helming Smash.

Characters are one thing, but what about the gameplay? I'm not saying it has to be perfect, but Brawl in particular was just bizarre in some of the poor design decisions in that game. Sure, the fan service went above and beyond the previous games, but certain aspects of the gameplay and even some of the modes just felt flat on their faces.

I doubt I'm the only person here that has wondered if the series would have ever been anywhere near as successful had it stayed as Dragon King. By this, I mean critical reception, not sales. Dragon King 3 would've been demolished by the players in my opinion.

@Fatman
Competitive players are a minority. No one's going to deny that, but the reason why competitive players are an important base to listen to is for balancing. The competitive players will be able to show that execution difficulty is not proportional to reward, that there are some glaring flaws with certain mechanics, and will find things the developers simply didn't intend to in the first place.

 

[Bowserlick]

Well, finally Bowser uses his legs. He had legs for two games and didn't even run with them. Crazy.

 

[Big-Cat]

Watch the Boozer Drop Kick be one of his best moves.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Well, finally Bowser uses his legs. He had legs for two games and didn't even run with them. Crazy.

The last two games he was doing his best Blue Falcon impression.

 

[Salty the SLUG]

Well, finally Bowser uses his legs. He had legs for two games and didn't even run with them. Crazy.

That and he finally has a spine - or if he DID have a spine before, they got rid of his Scoliosis.

 

[Rebellious Treecko]

Well, finally Bowser uses his legs. He had legs for two games and didn't even run with them. Crazy.

I'll miss his old running animation.
It was so...odd.

I wonder why the developers decided to make Bowser scrape the floor with his claws and speed forward like a car?

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