Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[TheKingOfTown]

Trip the tripper who trips named Trip the Tripper. If you trip, however, I will trip you.

 

[Moon Monkey]

 

[~automatic]

You dudes should steer this ship back to topical waters before the mods board it once again.

 

[TheKingOfTown]

But tripping is in Smash. :[

 

[Disfunkshunal]

You dudes should steer this ship back to topical waters before the mods board it once again.

Fine.
I'm really happy for you and I'm going to let you finish but pirate ship was the best stage of all time. Of all time!

 

[Deleted member]

Trippy tripping is quite the trip when you trip so much.

This reminds me...

Dunno if any of you ever browsed /fit/, but there used to be this dude on there who went by the name TinyTrip. Oh the hilarity with that dude.

 

[~automatic]

Fine.

I'm really happy for you and I'm going to let you finish but pirate ship was the best stage of all time. Of all time!

You dudes think we're getting Pirate Ship back as a returning Brawl level since WWHD is a thing?

 

[Moon Monkey]

Fine.
I'm really happy for you and I'm going to let you finish but pirate ship was the best stage of all time. Of all time!

You know who else owns a pirate ship?

Spoiler

Oh... and some Fire Emblem characters

 

[MexM]

You dudes think we're getting Pirate Ship back as a returning Brawl level since WWHD is a thing?

Woah, haven't thought about that. Now that you say it, I say it's very possible. If not because of the 3DS, then I'm still pretty sure we will get a new WW stage anyway.

You know who else owns a pirate ship?

 

[Disfunkshunal]

I hope so. It really is my favorite brawl stage.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Spoiler

 

[SoldierSunday]

How can throw parries work out in smash 4?

 

[Moon Monkey]

How can throw parries work out in smash 4?

You mean like if someone grabs when you grab?
I would think that making something akin to clashing would work.

 

[augustoflores]

tbh, i can't believe we can't parry throws yet.
i mean, wouldn't it solve the ice climbers chain grab? heard sakurai couldn't take out the ice climbers chain grab no matter what he tried.

 

[Johnknight1]

Movesets, for the most part, are derived from these franchise that make up the cast of Smash Bros.Without the source material all of these characters would be familiar in face, but generic in movesets.

Again, Snake changed the game. He's the first zoning character. Do you guys really want generic characters like Toad without an ounce of originality than you want Snake=??? I mean, Zero Suit Samus doesn't have much history on Nintendo games, but Waluigi does; should we just up and replace ZSS for Waluigi=??? (and that is without going into my idea that is to a degree fact [to what degree is what we debate over] that returning characters is much easier than cutting them)

Characters are unique and special, because their moves and mechanics which, for the most part, are pulled from the games they're from. It's the characters/franchises that make Smash great not the movesets.

The characters bring us to the game; the movesets and play styles are what sell us the game. If everyone was a super popular character but was boring to play, no one would care about smash anymore.

I'm not sure if this is what your getting at, but If being competitively viable was important for each characters, Sakurai would close the door characters like Ryu and other fighting game characters whose movesets have been tweaked for 20+ years

I'm not talking about competitively viable movesets, but just in terms of what characters add. Snake's unique fighting style, his zoning attributes, and just how he functions makes him arguably the most unique smash character ever.

I'm not really focusing on sales, because most of these well-known Nintendo associated characters have done well in their respective primes. While it is good to spread the appeal to to appeal to newer audiences, I don't think adding Snake for the sake of bringing in new people is really direction of of smash. demographics don't matter otherwise why would Wii Fit Trainer be a newcomer???

Demographics do matter, which is what Snake brought in thousands of new smash bros. fans, and made Nintendo millions (regardless of what SmashChu says). And yes, the Wii Fit Trainer appeals to certain demographics, namely old (and largely out of shape) people who bought WiiFit and WiiFit Plus, both games which sold in the neighborhood of twice as many copies than Brawl (the best-selling smash game) has.

 

[~automatic]

Woah, haven't thought about that. Now that you say it, I say it's very possible.

Some people here are correlating character omissions and inclusions based on software releases so why not do it with stages right?
Pirate Ship HD would be on the home version of the game though since Sakurai has said that the stage lists will be based off of console and portable games. Hyrule Castle might be a retro stage for the 3DS version if Sakurai decides to dig deep for those retro levels that have appeared on portables.

 

[Deleted member]

How can throw parries work out in smash 4?

That... is actually a very good idea.

 

[MexM]

If Snake returns, we need his chibi form.

Edit: "Hey hey hey! Don't get too close to me. I just farted, heh heh. Sorry." Earthbound is awesome.

 

[Moon Monkey]

tbh, i can't believe we can't parry throws yet.
i mean, wouldn't it solve the ice climbers chain grab? heard sakurai couldn't take out the ice climbers chain grab no matter what he tried.

Wouldn't making the 2 play as one unit (meaning no use of AI) and making their moves incorperate each other solve this?

 

[Johnknight1]

To heck with another Pirate Ship or a Pirate Ship HD upgrade, give me a Wind Waker HD Outset Island stage or a Wind Waker HD Forsaken Fortress stage.

Oh, and on either game (probably Smash 3DS) freaking HYRULE CASTLE (like for REAL!!!) is a totally necessary stage.

Put Ganon's Castle in the category just under that, too.

Also, a Minish Cap stage would make me super happy, because IMO that is the best game since The Wind Waker (I love it). It is too bad that game was so short, because it ended right when it seemed like it was going to reach a "classic" gaming level to where it would be an unforgettable title.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Again, Snake changed the game. He's the first zoning character. Do you guys really want generic characters like Toad without an ounce of originality than you want Snake=??? I mean, Zero Suit Samus doesn't have much history on Nintendo games, but Waluigi does; should we just up and replace ZSS for Waluigi=??? (and that is without going into my idea that is to a degree fact [to what degree is what we debate over] that returning characters is much easier than cutting them)

Snake is just the model that was skinned to the rig of that moveset. He didn't change the game his move set did. A moveset could of been done in an Animal Crossing theme.
No, no I do not want generic movesets. Like I said in my last post: "Without the source material all of these characters would be familiar in face, but generic in movesets."
When I say that, I mean I want more movesets like Olimar, whose moves are taken from the type of game Pikmin is.
Well for starters Waluigi doesn't have a stand alone game (He has only appeared in Mario party games and sports games, if i remember coreectly), where as ZSS did:

Spoiler

Not to mention the fact that ZSS and Samus are one in the same, it's no different than Zelda & Shiek. So to answer your question, Yes. Samus DOES have more history than Walugi.

The characters bring us to the game; the movesets and play styles are what sell us the game. If everyone was a super popular character but was boring to play, no one would care about smash anymore.

Yea your right, characters bring us to the game (and by game I assume you mean smash???), The moveset that the characters have are suppose to sell us on the characters themselves, because no matter how good a Mario 3D model looks, if it's shooting hadoukens, throwing ninja stars and summoning 3 headed grizzly bears spewing galactic plasma, then that moveset isn't selling us on Mario character, now is it??

I'm not talking about competitively viable movesets, but just in terms of what characters add. Snake's unique fighting style, his zoning attributes, and just how he functions makes him arguably the most unique smash character ever.

I'm not disagreeing with you that Snake's movesets doesn't add anything to the game, because he does. What I AM disagree with is that Snake isn't that big of Nintendo Allstar when compared to Mega Man and Simon. Hell! Even Pac-man has appeared more times on Nintendo systems than Snake. Snake's moveset can be cloned/ported/transferred over to any other character and have their theme over Snakes existing moveset. The same way how Dr. Mario had his Dr. Mario theme shooting pills over Mario's existing moveset.

My issue isn't with Snake's moveset, its Snake himself. Do think Snake's a bad character? No. In actuality I think Snakes a better character than Simon. But when comes to Nintendo and it's history... let's just say it isn't Snake that is apart of Captain N's cast is it?

Demographics do matter, which is what Snake brought in thousands of new smash bros. fans, and made Nintendo millions (regardless of what SmashChu says). And yes, the Wii Fit Trainer appeals to certain demographics, namely old (and largely out of shape) people who bought WiiFit and WiiFit Plus, both games which sold in the neighborhood of twice as many copies than Brawl (the best-selling smash game) has.

So your saying, because the Wii Fit Trainer is now in the roster, we are more likely to play against old and largely out of shape people in smash??? Doubt it. Unless there is a controller configuration for Wii Balance Board LOL!
To some degree, you are right, familiarity does play a role in capturing people's attention to the game. But keep in mind, those people bought the game for different reasons, Some bought for fun and some it to actually get in shape, they may not even be interested in video games. If they look at a game like smash and see that it doesn't tone their legs and calves like Wii Fit did, I doubt they'll be inclined to buy the game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@Moon Monkey: To be fair, tons of characters have moves not from their games. Fire Fox is just one of them. He has nothing similar.(arguably the Smart Bomb at best?) Giga Bowser's moveset is widely unique and just full of elemental attacks. Bowser never used ice or electricity around that time.(although the Giga Bowser in Melee is a separate person from the playable Bowser anyway. In Brawl, they're the same person, you can also tell that it might be a different Giga Bowser since he's far weaker than the original, and only temporarily. It could be a weak transformation using his magic in an attempt to be as strong as his truly evil counterpart in Adventure Mode's Story)

Also, Young Link could use the Downthrust/Upthrust? Hell, the trophies state both versions of Link in Melee are only from the first game. Smash isn't terribly consistent in "it originates from the game for the moves". Most of Sheik and Zelda's moves are completely made up, and Sheik's Vanish is the only move she knew from the games or even came from there. The needles never showed up, nor the chain.

Of course, it depends how you define a generic moveset.

 

[Moon Monkey]

@Moon Monkey: To be fair, tons of characters have moves not from their games. Fire Fox is just one of them. He has nothing similar.(arguably the Smart Bomb at best?) Giga Bowser's moveset is widely unique and just full of elemental attacks. Bowser never used ice or electricity around that time.(although the Giga Bowser in Melee is a separate person from the playable Bowser anyway. In Brawl, they're the same person, you can also tell that it might be a different Giga Bowser since he's far weaker than the original, and only temporarily. It could be a weak transformation using his magic in an attempt to be as strong as his truly evil counterpart in Adventure Mode's Story)

Also, Young Link could use the Downthrust/Upthrust? Hell, the trophies state both versions of Link in Melee are only from the first game. Smash isn't terribly consistent in "it originates from the game for the moves". Most of Sheik and Zelda's moves are completely made up, and Sheik's Vanish is the only move she knew from the games or even came from there. The needles never showed up, nor the chain.

Of course, it depends how you define a generic moveset.

I am aware of that, as I mentioned in my reply on the last page pertaining to the matter:

Characters are unique and special, because of their moves and mechanics which, for the most part, are pulled from the games they're from.

Besides saying Falcon in front of certain moves Captain Falcon's moveset has nothing to do with F-Zero

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I just really really want Snake back. I mean, you could say some of his moves are generic, but a lot of them are very true to his character, like all of his specials, throws, jab combo, and neutral air.

I think the appeal of smash bros is that it takes moves from each character and puts its own individual twist on it. It makes it seems as if that all of these characters fit right in, as if these are Nintendo characters in an alternate universe where they are all just fighters instead of who they really are. It's magic, man.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I want Snake back, if only for the codecs

 

[Moon Monkey]

To be clear: I'm not saying Snake is generic. I'm saying, when comparing Simon to Snake on the better character associated with Nintendo's history. Simon wins hands down.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Every character has generic moves.

@Moon Monkey: Ah, true. Except for quite a lot of characters. Again, Zelda, Sheik, the Star Fox trio... are not moves pulled from the games heavily. They have some, yes, but that's it. Link, however, has tons from his own game. Including some of his actual A moves besides the Upthrust/Downthrust(since those existed before).

 

[Metal Overlord]

Hyper finally changed his avi 0_0 lol

 

[Moon Monkey]

Every character has generic moves.

@Moon Monkey: Ah, true. Except for quite a lot of characters. Again, Zelda, Sheik, the Star Fox trio... are not moves pulled from the games heavily. They have some, yes, but that's it. Link, however, has tons from his own game. Including some of his actual A moves besides the Upthrust/Downthrust(since those existed before).

These pretty good vids showing where these characters received some of their moves

While these characters don't do these moves themselves we can see at least some thought was put into their moveset in staying true to their series. But yeah quite a few characters moves where generated to fit for Smash. Pit was reverse engineered LOL

Hyper finally changed his avi 0_0 lol

You mean her?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Hyper finally changed his avi 0_0 lol

I'm a Sea Bass. Glub, Mofos.

@Moon Monkey: Yes, I know the movesets are revolving. But everybody has generic moves regardless. Well, MegaMan may become an exception to this rule. A lot of Mario's moves in 64 save his Air attacks were very similar to his 64 stuff. His B moves are obvious too.

 

[JamesDNaux]

My issue isn't with Snake's moveset, its Snake himself. Do think Snake's a bad character? No. In actuality I think Snakes a better character than Simon. But when comes to Nintendo and it's history... let's just say it isn't Snake that is apart of Captain N's cast is it?

Ok, I've got nothing against ya Moon, but I just need to address the Snake thing. He's always been a part of Nintendo's history, from the very beginning, albeit the god-awful NES port of Metal Gear wasn't authorized by Kojima and he was pretty mad about that. But since then, the Metal Gear series has had multiple games on Nintendo consoles, one of which was fairly recent (MGS3D). The argument that most of his games have been on non-Nintendo consoles is a bit of a moot point, as most third party character's games are also mainly not on Nintendo consoles. Hell, Sonic was Sega's rival to Nintendo's Mario and was pretty much made so that people would buy a Genesis instead of an SNES, but yet he too has become a part of Nintendo's history and is an important character in his own right.

The issue of most of Snake's games not being on Nintendo consoles is also arguable:
[collapse=Metal Gear games on Nintendo consoles]Metal Gear-NES
Snake's Revenge-NES
The Twin Snakes-GC
Snake Eater3D-3DS
Ghost Babel-GBC[/collapse]
[collapse=Metal Gear games not on Nintendo consoles]Metal Gear 2
Metal Gear Solid
MGS2-Sons of Liberty
MGS3-Snake Eater
MGS4-Guns of the Patriots
MGS-Portable Ops
MGS-Peace Walker
Metal Gear Acid
Metal Gear Acid 2[/collapse]
Five games on Nintendo consoles and nine games that didn't appear on Nintendo consoles, out of fourteen games in total (not counting mobile phone games and some spin-offs) that isn't that big of a difference. It's still arguable that Simon has more relevance than Snake for Nintendo consoles, but Snake is more important to Konami, so they're more likely to want him to stay rather than replace him. Plus Sakurai and Kojima being friends, which is why we got Snake in the first place.

Also, what does Captain N have to do with anything, it was some Nintendo of America show that has no relevance to anything at all.

 

[Metal Overlord]

It's still arguable that Simon has more relevance than Snake for Nintendo consoles, but Snake is more important to Konami, so they're more likely to want him to stay rather than replace him.

this pretty much

 

[Moon Monkey]

I'm a Sea Bass. Glub, Mofos.

@Moon Monkey: Yes, I know the movesets are revolving. But everybody has generic moves regardless. Well, MegaMan may become an exception to this rule. A lot of Mario's moves in 64 save his Air attacks were very similar to his 64 stuff. His B moves are obvious too.

Yes, a lot of characters have generic moves. I never was denying that, nor was it my argument that characters don't have generic moves.
BUT, what I will say on the subject matter is that, for the most part, characters do use moves or do things that at least stay true to the series.Yes their generic moves to fill in the gaps for moves they cant fill into the moveset, but when it comes to specials, those are usually the moves that separates the character from the bunch

 

[Big-Cat]

tbh, i can't believe we can't parry throws yet.
i mean, wouldn't it solve the ice climbers chain grab? heard sakurai couldn't take out the ice climbers chain grab no matter what he tried.

Some of the aspects of grabs simply need to be changed. Things like you can't grab air borne opponents off of normal grabs and making chain grabs tech chases would balance this aspect considerably.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Ok, I've got nothing against ya Moon, but I just need to address the Snake thing. He's always been a part of Nintendo's history, from the very beginning, albeit the awful NES port of Metal Gear wasn't authorized by Kojima and he was pretty mad about that. But since then, the Metal Gear series has had multiple games on Nintendo consoles, one of which was fairly recent (MGS3D). The argument that most of his games have been on non-Nintendo consoles is a bit of a moot point, as most third party character's games are also mainly not on Nintendo consoles. Hell, Sonic was Sega's rival to Nintendo's Mario and was pretty much made so that people would buy a Genesis instead of an SNES, but yet he too has become a part of Nintendo's history and is important in his own right.

The issue of most of Snake's games not being on Nintendo consoles is also arguable:
[collapse=Metal Gear games on Nintendo consoles]Metal Gear-NES
Snake's Revenge-NES
The Twin Snakes-GC
Snake Eater3D-3DS
Ghost Babel-GBC[/collapse]
[collapse=Metal Gear games not on Nintendo consoles]Metal Gear 2
Metal Gear Solid
MGS2-Sons of Liberty
MGS3-Snake Eater
MGS4-Guns of the Patriots
MGS-Portable Ops
MGS-Peace Walker
Metal Gear Acid
Metal Gear Acid 2[/collapse]
Five games on Nintendo consoles and nine games that didn't appear on Nintendo consoles, out of fourteen games in total (not counting mobile phone games and some spin-offs) that isn't that big of a difference. It's still arguable that Simon has more relevance than Snake for Nintendo consoles, but Snake is more important to Konami, so they're more likely to want him to stay rather than replace him.

Also, what does Captain N have to do with anything, it was some Nintendo of America show that has no relevancy to anything at all.

I'm not saying Snake has played no part in Nintendo's history.
Hell at the top of the page I even said

My issue isn't with Snake's moveset, its Snake himself. Do think Snake's a bad character? No. In actuality I think Snakes a better character than Simon. But when comes to Nintendo and it's history... let's just say it isn't Snake that is apart of Captain N's cast is it?

What I AM saying is when comparing to Castlevania to Metal Gear Solid. Castlevania is more of a franchise that one would associate with Nintendo.

 

[Big-Cat]

le double post

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes, a lot of characters have generic moves. I never was denying that, nor was it my argument that characters don't have generic moves.
BUT, what I will say on the subject matter is that, for the most part, characters do use moves or do things that at least stay true to the series.Yes their generic moves to fill in the gaps for moves they cant fill into the moveset, but when it comes to specials, those are usually the moves that separates the character from the bunch

Except Zelda till Brawl with the Light Arrows. I don't consider her stealing Link's moves to count. She uses zero of her own personal moves.(okay, Transform at best)

I agree most characters do, though.

Anyway, I want to clear up a correction; We don't know if Konami finds Snake more important for Smash since it was Kojima who wanted him in, not Konami themselves. I'd say Simon is more relevant to Nintendo as well anyway.

And when MegaMan was shown to be in, some people want the Captain N main heroes in(minus the cartoon only characters, although some people...). Albeit, many don't know that the comics used Samus, so the heroes are already there. What we don't have is the villains whatsoever. I wouldn't count on King Hippo without Little Mac. Unless Ridley becomes playable, Mother Brain may not show up at all. Dr. Wily does seem possible, at least. Then there's Eggplant Wizard, which I doubt will make it over the more prominent Uprising characters.(that is, depending if we get a new Kid Icarus character, and who it is)

However, I'd make them all Trophies at the very least. That we can do what we did in Brawl, make a Trophy picture of Captain N's team(eh, Captain Falcon is close enough in design to "represent" him, and Zelda works for Princess Llana) VS Mother Brain's team.

 

[augustoflores]

D-D-D-DOUBLE POST!! lol

 

[SoldierSunday]

If you get grabbed 3 times in a row there should be invincibility frames so no chaingrabs.

Nah...

 

[Big-Cat]

If you get grabbed 3 times in a row there should be invincibility frames so no chaingrabs.

Nah...

You want to know how chaingrabs in other games work? Every single sequential grab is a read, and DI is not an adequate remedy for this.