Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Deleted member]

Falco? Really? He's a major Starfox character, his moveset can easily be changed, and will be if need be.

Toon Link has a number of items from Wind Waker that he didn't use, he too, can easily be changed.

If it's that much work, then Toon Link's chances are more low, but not Falco. To my knowledge, he's a very important and popular Starfox character, they wouldn't just dump him, especially after he managed to make his way to Brawl after first appearing in Melee.

Rumor has it Wolf was planned for Melee, but was replaced by Falco as Falco was easier to make into a clone and thus beef up the Roster count, much like Ganondorf.

If you watch the Melee, E3 reveal (which is the opening cutscene for Melee), you notice that the Wolfen clashes with Fox's Arwing, thus supporting that theory/ Also, given that context, I can certainly see why people expected Ridley for Melee, and perhaps he WAS planned for Melee at some point, who knows. Now I only wonder why he was made a boss in Brawl.

Theory time?

Ok, what if Ridley was planned as a Boss AND a playable for Brawl, but was simplified into a Boss due to time constraints. I mean, getting nerfed bosses as playables in fighters is no new concept:

Anyway, the Melee trailer just becuase, but if you watch this with the mind-set of, this is the reveal, and every character shown and hinted is planned for development, a lot of things about Melee's development and potentially planned roster make sense:

(Also, notice the cheering when Ridley... ;_; )

 

[Mr. OC]

According to the SmashWiki, a list of what's legal and what isn't for Brawl. (the links all go the stage's page on the wiki)

Starter

• Battlefield
• Castle Siege
• Final Destination
• Lylat Cruise
• Pokémon Stadium
• Smashville
• Yoshi's Island

Counterpick

• Brinstar
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Pokémon Stadium 2
• Rainbow Cruise

Banned

• 75 m
• Big Blue
• Bridge of Eldin
• Corneria
• Distant Planet
• Flat Zone 2
• Green Greens
• Green Hill Zone
• Hanenbow
• Jungle Japes
• Luigi's Mansion
• Mario Bros.
• Mario Circuit
• Mushroomy Kingdom (both 1-1 and 1-2)
• New Pork City
• Norfair
• Onett
• PictoChat
• Pirate Ship
• Port Town Aero Dive
• Rumble Falls
• Shadow Moses Island
• Skyworld
• Spear Pillar
• Summit
• Temple
• WarioWare, Inc.
• Yoshi's Island (Melee)

These stage choices make competitive play sound kind of boring

And kind of ass-backwards.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

In fact, the more I think about it, the less I see Falco coming back...

This makes me sad.

Not Falco getting cut. But the fact that you actually said this.

I was referencing Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures.

Good to know you weren't referencing Wind Waker.

The Four Swords games could have done MUCH better than they did. I didn't like how Four Swords Adventures was just a bunch of replayable levels, and you couldn't keep anything you got in the next level. That's not what Zelda is.

 

[Fatmanonice]

You don't devote 3/5-ths of the development time to filler content.

Which is why I don't get why so many people are sawing their wrists like a bow across a violin in Antonio Vivaldi's Summer over the news of cutscenes being severely cut back. The fact that we might not even have to wait an entire year for the game is beyond good news.

 

[Deleted member]

I was referencing Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures.

Oh Gosh, not these people from the pre-Brawl days coming back again!!!

Ahh, well the Four Sword's main story and use are found in Minish Cap, that's what I was referring to. Plus a Link that could make copies of himself would have been cool (it certainly would have been a better FS).

Anyway, I was one of the people saying that Falco and Ganondorf would be the only clones to come back, and that YL would be replaced by TL back in Pre-Brawl. Given the new situation, I now have a different stance. I actually did indeed call Roy getting the axe, as well as Doc (who I wanted to see go so Mario could be made better), and obv Pichu.

Imma gonna laugh when Falco does indeed get cut, just to add salt to the would.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Stage List

I don't think I've seen a stagelist like that or even close since MLG nowadays... Sad really.

These stage choices make competitive play sound kind of boring

And kind of ***-backwards.

Explain the reasoning behind that?

 

[FalKoopa]

Imma gonna laugh when Falco does indeed get cut, just to add salt to the would.

I'll laugh if Snake gets cut and pac-man gets confirmed, just to add salt to the wound.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Ok, what if Ridley was planned as a Boss AND a playable for Brawl, but was simplified into a Boss due to time constraints. I mean, getting nerfed bosses as playables in fighters is no new concept:

OKAY YOU DON'T NEED TO BRING MYFAVORITE GG CHARACTER INTO THIS, MANLY. WE GET IT, SHE IS IRREDEEMABLY BOTTOM TIER IN PLUS R.

*sobs.*

Smooth Criminal

 

[Arcadenik]

Imma gonna laugh when Falco does indeed get cut, just to add salt to the would.

And I will laugh when ANY character from 64/Melee/Brawl does indeed get cut, just to quench my thirst for butthurt fanboy tears.

 

[Johnknight1]

Falco, Ganondorf, Young Link, Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Roy are going to be cut because clones are worse then Lucifer and we won't get any more clones at all. I swear this is true, my father works for Nintendo!

"Birdo's Eggs in her sports outfit is goign tah be in nxt game cuz smash my dad wrk on gme and he tld me sho."

 

[FlareHabanero]

"Birdo's Eggs in her sports outfit is goign tah be in nxt game cuz smash my dad wrk on gme and he tld me sho."

>her

 

[Mr. OC]

Explain the reasoning behind that?

I find it boring due to the lack of variety. I understand that some stages give certain characters an unfair edge, but to render over half of them illegal is kind of poor, even considering that some of the legal stages still potentially give certain characters unfair advantages.

I find some of the "illegal" stage choices a bit backwards, when Rainbow Cruise is a legal counterpick.

 

[Johnknight1]

Imma gonna laugh when Falco does indeed get cut, just to add salt to the would.

I'll laugh if Snake gets cut and pac-man gets confirmed, just to add salt to the wound.

And I will laugh when ANY character from 64/Melee/Brawl does indeed get cut, just to quench my thirst for butthurt fanboy tears.

1. This is why no one likes any of you.
2. I'mma gonna laugh if both of these games are abominations, and I'll rub some skunks on your legs.
3. If because of #2 the series get subsequently cancelled, I'mma gonna rub uranium into your food.

 

[Deleted member]

This makes me sad.

Not Falco getting cut. But the fact that you actually said this.




Good to know you weren't referencing Wind Waker.

The Four Swords games could have done MUCH better than they did. I didn't like how Four Swords Adventures was just a bunch of replayable levels, and you couldn't keep anything you got in the next level. That's not what Zelda is.

Why, cause I'm predicting that a character won't return?

Just look up Sakurai's interviews. I won't give you the sauce as it's easy to find and I've posted it too many times not to have people listen to what SAKURAI openly says.

Dude, it's simple logic, more characters mean more development time. Each character literally, in Sakurai's words, "MULTIPLIES the work-load" mostly due to balancing. That means, I think it's fair to assume that he'll be much more careful with his character choices this time around, he'll rework the characters that are more notable like Ganondorf, but think about it.

When needing to rework a lot of vets, as well as programming new characters, it's pretty obvious that clone-vets take the last spots on the list. With a limited time to work on the roster, it's a pretty safe bet that some won't come back.

Clone characters that need work:
Luigi
Lucas
Falco
Ganondorf
Toon Link
(maybe) Roy

It's clear Luigi takes priority over all, and can get away with being the most clone-like.

The rest would have to be totally reworked from scratch if we're to follow Sakurai's words on "being fresh entries the Smash Universe." I could see Roy coming back to kinda aleviate the bitterness from losing 2 or more vets. Ganondorf is important enough to the Zelda franchise to merit his return (being part of the triforce trio), and has plenty of potential for his moveset. Toon Link and Lucas come next, but we'll see. Falco however, I see at the bottom of the list. Why? Simple, what can Falco do that Fox and Wolf already can't? I KNOW that competitively he's very different, he's my Melee Second, but I don't think Sakurai is looking at tier lists when building the roster. He's not gonna prioritize Falco cause he's a top tier character imo.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

They are not the same entity. The Link seen in Smash 4's trailer is meant to represent Link, but not the one from Wind Waker. Toon Link represents this Link that looks notably different because of the game's style.

Recycling? I don't get it. They recycle loads of things from other games to add to the character's moveset, if that's what you mean, then by your logic, all characters are garbage.

There are plenty of things they could do for Toon Link, he would be perfectly fine. I might not be able to come up with the perfect new moveset, but I know Sakurai would.

I don't think Link needs to be changed, except for the physics of his recovery. That's the main issue with him in Brawl.

Let me clarify. When I said they recycle the same moves I was referring to the fact that Link has had no significant improvements since the first smash, hell he has had things taken away from him as he was in his peak at Melee. Of course they recycle stuff from the old games lol. I'm really just irritated that they removed his rapid stab, weakened his recovery (both up B and Hook shot), eliminated his ability to juggle bombs, further nerfing his recovery, weakening the power of his spin attack, weakening his boomerang, and just plain not showing any interest in improving him when they could do so just as easily. But hey who knows, they still have time, but from what i've seen they changed so many people and left link the same. I mean, I can just name some improvements off the top of my head:

While he is holding a bomb, let him shoot a bomb arrow when you press B, when you are holding a bomb, press down B to put it down on the ground. You can also roll the bomb by hitting Smash down B. Give him unlimited charge time on his spin attack. While he is holding it he could walk slowly to the left or right. Make Fast falled Dair spike the enemy into the ground so if the enemy doesn't tech he can follow up with the second half of the attack. Speed up his grapple similarly to how Samus has a faster dash grab in Brawl. There are so man things you could do with him.

Part of me just wants to see Link good because I have always been a hardcore Zelda fan, and he was the reason why I started playing smash bros in the first place. Just fix Link Sakurai, c'mon dude...

 

[Johnknight1]

These stage choices make competitive play sound kind of boring

And kind of ***-backwards.

Obviously you don't play against top level Brawl players, and obviously you don't know how much a lot of those banned stages make the top tiers better and most every other character worse. Meta Knight can camp the hell out of nearly every banned stage, and many of said banned stages are terribly designed (at least for competitive play).

 

[FlareHabanero]

This is why no one likes any of you.

I like Manly though.

Falkoopa and Arcadenik are okay I guess, but Manly is on a higher pedestal.

 

[FalKoopa]

1. This is why no one likes any of you.
2. I'mma gonna laugh if both of these games are abominations, and I'll rub some skunks on your legs.
3. If because of #2 the series get subsequently cancelled, I'mma gonna rub uranium into your food.

My post was directed specifically at Manly, as he hates pac-man and mains Snake.

I don't want any cuts actually.

 

[Deleted member]

OKAY YOU DON'T NEED TO BRING MYFAVORITE GG CHARACTER INTO THIS, MANLY. WE GET IT, SHE IS IRREDEEMABLY BOTTOM TIER IN PLUS R.

*sobs.*

Smooth Criminal

>inb4 Riley is bottom tier in Smash Kerfuffle

GODDAMMIT SMOOTH WHAT HAVE YOU DONE!!

Both are very aerial focused characters too... ffffffff****.

 

[Reznor]

okay so what is every one arguing about now I think it started with Pacman or something

 

[Johnknight1]

Why, cause I'm predicting that a character won't return?

Just look up Sakurai's interviews. I won't give you the sauce as it's easy to find and I've posted it too many times not to have people listen to what SAKURAI openly says.

By characters not returning, he's referencing Melee too bro. Characters like Wolf and Lucario could get cut, but I highly doubt anyone in 2 smash games thus far will be cut. On top of that, I think the backlash to any cut of the Brawl roster will equal huge backlash; Sakurai got (rightfully) crapped on for cutting Mewtwo and hopefully, he still has some crap stains for it, and for Game Arts being such a gigantic failure of a smash developer.

Considering development won't waste 3/5th's of its' time on on a nothing mini-game wanna be story mode, I'd say the chances of many character cuts is pretty low.

Dude, it's simple logic, more characters mean more development time.

And that re-adding veterans is cheaper, less time and resource consuming, involves less people, and a lot easier than adding newcomers.

Clone characters that need work:
Lucas

You do realize like Jigglypuff, Captain Falcon, and Samus are more clone-y than Lucas right=???

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Why, cause I'm predicting that a character won't return?

Just look up Sakurai's interviews. I won't give you the sauce as it's easy to find and I've posted it too many times not to have people listen to what SAKURAI openly says.

Dude, it's simple logic, more characters mean more development time. Each character literally, in Sakurai's words, "MULTIPLIES the work-load" mostly due to balancing. That means, I think it's fair to assume that he'll be much more careful with his character choices this time around, he'll rework the characters that are more notable like Ganondorf, but think about it.

When needing to rework a lot of vets, as well as programming new characters, it's pretty obvious that clone-vets take the last spots on the list. With a limited time to work on the roster, it's a pretty safe bet that some won't come back.

Clone characters that need work:
Luigi
Lucas
Falco
Ganondorf
Toon Link
(maybe) Roy

It's clear Luigi takes priority over all, and can get away with being the most clone-like.

The rest would have to be totally reworked from scratch if we're to follow Sakurai's words on "being fresh entries the Smash Universe." I could see Roy coming back to kinda aleviate the bitterness from losing 2 or more vets. Ganondorf is important enough to the Zelda franchise to merit his return (being part of the triforce trio), and has plenty of potential for his moveset. Toon Link and Lucas come next, but we'll see. Falco however, I see at the bottom of the list. Why? Simple, what can Falco do that Fox and Wolf already can't? I KNOW that competitively he's very different, he's my Melee Second, but I don't think Sakurai is looking at tier lists when building the roster. He's not gonna prioritize Falco cause he's a top tier character imo.

Falco is unlikely to simply be dumped just like that, after making it into Melee, and and Brawl.

To my knowledge, I don't much of what I could do for Falco, but I have faith in Sakurai.
Also, I had no plans of bringing up the tier list. I know Sakurai would probably not be looking at the tier lists for that.

Besides, he's, like I said before, a major and popular Starfox character. If they took him out, then he'd at least be replaced with someone else that isn't in already, Sakurai wouldn't lower the amount of reps for a franchise.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I find it boring due to the lack of variety. I understand that some stages give certain characters an unfair edge, but to render over half of them illegal is kind of poor, even considering that some of the legal stages still potentially give certain characters unfair advantages.

I find some of the "illegal" stage choices a bit backwards, when Rainbow Cruise is a legal counterpick.

Wow, I honestly thought that was one of the most liberal stagelists I've seen outside of Finland and Nova Scotia, which stages are questionably banned to you?

 

[Johnknight1]

My post was directed specifically at Manly, as he hates pac-man and mains Snake.

I don't want any cuts actually.

Well I want everyone cut, and I want you all cut deep in the worst ways.

Good to know you weren't referencing Wind Waker.

Why would I say that over the best Zelda game over the last 10 years (and it is not even close in my book)=???

I'd rather instead crap all over Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, and Skyward Sword for not being up to the Zelda quality I know and love.

This opinion of mine is a gagillion fold for Four Swords and especially Four Swords (filler) Adventures.

 

[Deleted member]

I like Manly though.

Falkoopa and Arcadenik are okay I guess, but Manly is on a higher pedestal.

I had one with Snake, C.Falcon, and Samus, which would have been much more fitting, but sadly I can't find it.

My post was directed specifically at Manly, as he hates pac-man and mains Snake.

I don't want any cuts actually.

I'm already prepared to lose Snake tbh... I'll dislike it, but I'm ready for the blow. I suppose it fitting that great heroes die young, following in the footsteps of Che Guevara after all.

Spoiler

plus Solid Snake is canonically dead in the Metal Gear universe

And Pac-Man getting in isn't impossible, I just don't want it to happen and thus refuse to see it as likely.

 

[Mr. OC]

Obviously you don't play against top level Brawl players, and obviously you don't know how much a lot of those banned stages make the top tiers better and most every other character worse. Meta Knight can camp the hell out of nearly every banned stage, and many of said banned stages are terribly designed (at least for competitive play).

I don't play against them, but I've watched them in action. It's an overrated experience imo.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Speaking of butthurt and its subsequent aftermath, which character do you guys think would cause the LEAST amount of butthurt if they got cut?

 

[Demna]

I don't want any cuts actually.

There will always be sad people if a specific character is cut from the roster. Thinking about the general people, ideally, no character should be cut to maintain the fans' happiness. However, if this were to happen, then the roster would be crowded with many characters. Which isn't necessarily bad, it's just that the roster needs to be more organized. I too don't want any cuts from the roster, I was one of the people who raged over Mewtwo's removal from Brawl. Sakurai stated that the hardest thing is to cut a character from the roster, but it has to be done.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Let me clarify. When I said they recycle the same moves I was referring to the fact that Link has had no significant improvements since the first smash, hell he has had things taken away from him as he was in his peak at Melee. Of course they recycle stuff from the old games lol. I'm really just irritated that they removed his rapid stab, weakened his recovery (both up B and Hook shot), eliminated his ability to juggle bombs, further nerfing his recovery, weakening the power of his spin attack, weakening his boomerang, and just plain not showing any interest in improving him when they could do so just as easily. But hey who knows, they still have time, but from what i've seen they changed so many people and left link the same. I mean, I can just name some improvements off the top of my head:

While he is holding a bomb, let him shoot a bomb arrow when you press B, when you are holding a bomb, press down B to put it down on the ground. You can also roll the bomb by hitting Smash down B. Give him unlimited charge time on his spin attack. While he is holding it he could walk slowly to the left or right. Make Fast falled Dair spike the enemy into the ground so if the enemy doesn't tech he can follow up with the second half of the attack. Speed up his grapple similarly to how Samus has a faster dash grab in Brawl. There are so man things you could do with him.

Part of me just wants to see Link good because I have always been a hardcore Zelda fan, and he was the reason why I started playing smash bros in the first place. Just fix Link Sakurai, c'mon dude...

Alright, I understand what you're saying there. Link could be buffed up quite a bit, a lot of those changes shouldn't have been made.

I'm a hardcore Zelda fan as well, but I'm personally a Wind Waker lover, among others. I think that both Link and Toon Link should recieve some significant changes, and in Link's case, buffs as well.

 

[Johnknight1]

I just don't want Pac-Man getting in to happen and thus refuse to see it as likely.

Well if Pac-Man does get in, prepare to have your opinion change.

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

>her

Well, if we are being technical about it. He's correct. The polite thing to do is call someone like her by her preferred gender. Birdo wants to be a girl so, there you go.

But who here really wants a transsexuality lesson anyway?

And, ugh. Clone discussions.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Competitive Brawl can summed up by these words.

Meta Knight.
Camping.
Smashville.

 

[Reznor]

Competitive Brawl can summed up by these words.

Meta Knight.
Camping.
Smashville.

you forgot tripping
I love brawl but ya this is true

 

[SoldierSunday]

Is it possible for smash 4 to use GGPO?

 

[Johnknight1]

Speaking of butthurt and its subsequent aftermath, which character do you guys think would cause the LEAST amount of butthurt if they got cut?

Honestly, probably ROB, only because he was the campiest little butthole character in the game.

I seriously once played a 15 minute no time limit game IRL at this tournament against this ROB in friendlies, and I seriously wanted to quit. That was actually the last Brawl tournament I ever entered and the last day I played Brawl match (sans mods), and that was like 2009 status.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Speaking of butthurt and its subsequent aftermath, which character do you guys think would cause the LEAST amount of butthurt if they got cut?

Given her Brawl change, and from what I've learned so far, probaby Jigglypuff.

I saw this one guy call her a clone of Kirby () and said she only takes away from Smash.
To my knowledge, she isn't the most popular Smash character anymore, since she was only added in because of the anime, as a joke character, only to be added again in Melee because they felt everyone should be returned.

I think not as many people care much for her anymore, but I personally think Smash wouldn't feel the same without her, she's been around since the very first game, after all.

 

[~automatic]

Competitive Brawl can summed up by these words.
Meta Knight.
Camping.
Smashville.

None of those words are adjectives.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Honestly, probably ROB, only because he was the campiest little butthole character in the game.

I seriously once played a 15 minute no time limit game IRL at this tournament against this ROB in friendlies, and I seriously wanted to quit. That was actually the last Brawl tournament I ever entered and the last day I played Brawl match (sans mods), and that was like 2009 status.

ALL OF MY BUTTHURT IF ROB IS CUT.

 

[Jaedrik]

Speaking of butthurt and its subsequent aftermath, which character do you guys think would cause the LEAST amount of butthurt if they got cut?

Uh, uhm. NNNNNNNNNLucas?
RRRRRRRRIke?
PPPPPPPPPLucario?
GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGROB?
Really, anyone getting cut will cause massive butthurt, it's hard to say.

 

[Demna]

Competitive Brawl can summed up by these words.

Meta Knight.
Camping.
Smashville.

Spoiler