Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[LiteralGrill]

Pichu is the best worst character, so no not really.

Dat edgeguarding game, and one of a VERY few characters that SHOULDN'T always L Cancel... The insanity...

ANYWAYS...

I'm looking for what you all think is the most common stage list currently for Brawl. Trying to do some studying on things and wanna know what Brawl players here run into the most.

 

[Johnknight1]

However, giving it some though, while not as boring as Chrom, Roy certainly fits the bill too.

You obviously have not seen my new Roy moveset concept(s) where he works primarily with unique stabbing moves with barely any pre-lag, but a few moves have a fair share of post-lag. He also is very gracious in the air, works best when he is moving, and has unique movement that if you play him like an "average character" you will get crushed. He would be somewhat combo heavy, and I imagine him being very nimble and gracious with a solid hint of power.

I'm not saying Sakurai can't, I'm saying that given the Pac-Man source material, I don't find Pac-Man exciting.

Well if Pac-Man is playable, book on Sakurai changing your mind. If he's not, then eh, *shrugs* Pac-Man isn't playable.

As for Snake, like I said, it doesn't sound like it would work, but it did, and it was beautiful. That is the greatness of Sakurai, Kojima, and co. right there.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Dat edgeguarding game, and one of a VERY few characters that SHOULDN'T always L Cancel... The insanity...

ANYWAYS...

I'm looking for what you all think is the most common stage list currently for Brawl. Trying to do some studying on things and wanna know what Brawl players here run into the most.

You mean competitive-wise or online/casual-wise?

 

[Deleted member]

It's ironic that it was his clone-y nature that saved him from being axed in Brawl.

I find that incredibly lame as I supported him back in the Brawl days on the premise that a Four Sword/WW inspired Link would replace boring-ass Clone Link.

However, things are different now, Sakurai no longer needs to buff the roster, so that puts him on the lower end of the spectrum imo.

Random Smash 4 Developer: "Hey Sakurai! Let's cut a character that totally worked in Brawl and has an easy moveset and data to transfer to another game, and replace him with 15 stickers!"
Sakurai: "You mean the one character that is the 'true' Link that I clearly love?"
"Random Smash 4 Developer: Yeah that guy!"
Sakurai: "Okay, all of you at Game Arts are fired. This is like the Mewtwo situation all over again, except this character actually functioned."

(Sakurai's thoughts)​

"I will troll them with my Crazy Train to think he is de-confirmed again!"
"It will be like the Outset Clothes Wind Waker Link trophy situation all over again!"
"Heck, it might reach Ness "Up Until Now" status!"
Iwata: (laughs)
"Oh God, I'm having that day dream again..."
(laughs)
"I better... I better hire another non-Nintendo company to help me make Smash Bros. again, but obviously not Game Arts..."

I never said he was gonna "cut" TL, I said TL is a low priority entry this time around, and thus less likely to get back in. You seemed so sure on the idea that HE WOULD RETURN, and I disagree. Ofc, there won't be cuts, Sakurai said he wouldn't cut anyone.

However, that doesn't guarantee old characters will return, this includes logistics, and technical issues. With a 50 character roster, would you put the extra time and effort in making an old character come back when you have a pending release date and your superiors breathing down your neck? I think not.

As for TL getting a new moveset, I'd hope so, however, I'm not so optimistic.

He's an unorginal fighter and still has to go through a balancing process, which is 90% if the work as stated by Sakurai himself in an interview. This is why all cloney fighters are unlikely to return (e.g. Toon Link, Falco, and Lucas), the only exception being Luigi, as he's THAT important.

 

[Johnknight1]

You forgot the people wanting every Sonic character ever.

I said "minor 3rd party characters."

Dr. Mario and Young Link confirmed for unique and great.

I have made some original concepts for Dr. Mario actually, and they aren't too bad.

 

[FalKoopa]

I find that incredibly lame as I supported him back in the Brawl days on the premise that a Four Sword/WW inspired Link would replace boring-*** Clone Link.

However, things are different now, Sakurai no longer needs to buff the roster, so that puts him on the lower end of the spectrum imo.

None of the Brawl characters were filler content, really.

 

[FlareHabanero]

None of the Brawl characters were filler content, really.

Toon Link, Wolf, Jigglypuff. Especially blunt when they're the only characters that don't have any role in SSE.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

None of the Brawl characters were filler content, really.

ROB wasn't?

Smooth Criminal

 

[FalKoopa]

Toon Link, Wolf, Jigglypuff. Especially blunt when they're the only characters that don't have any role in SSE.

That doesn't make them filler content.

They're not blatant clones like Doc and Pichu who had no demand whatsoever, and were not on the initially planned roster.

ROB wasn't?

Smooth Criminal

Oi, I loved ROB's inclusion.

 

[Johnknight1]

I find that incredibly lame as I supported him back in the Brawl days on the premise that a Four Sword/WW inspired Link would replace boring-*** Clone Link.

You mean the Link from the two worst Zelda games that thankfully not too many people played=???

Also, compared to the unusable Link in Brawl that was a travesty, he was pretty good. He also was one of the most exciting characters to play as.

On top of that, none of the Brawl roster was filler. They all played pretty differently, and most of them functioned right (sans tons and tons and tons of balance-related things, ROB being campy as crap, and Pit being awkward, spammy, and probably the most annoying smash bros character ever [glad he got fixed]).

He's an unorginal fighter and still has to go through a balancing process, which is 90% if the work as stated by Sakurai himself in an interview. This is why all cloney fighters are unlikely to return (e.g. Toon Link, Falco, and Lucas), the only exception being Luigi, as he's THAT important.

I remember people saying this in Brawl, which is why I'm laughing so hard at you. Obviously you didn't study your history dear chap.

 

[Mr. OC]

R.O.B: I exist

 

[FlareHabanero]

R.O.B: I exist

That's nice.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I find that incredibly lame as I supported him back in the Brawl days on the premise that a Four Sword/WW inspired Link would replace boring-*** Clone Link.

However, things are different now, Sakurai no longer needs to buff the roster, so that puts him on the lower end of the spectrum imo.

I never said he was gonna "cut" TL, I said TL is a low priority entry this time around, and thus less likely to get back in. You seemed so sure on the idea that HE WOULD RETURN, and I disagree. Ofc, there won't be cuts, Sakurai said he wouldn't cut anyone.

However, that doesn't guarantee old characters will return, this includes logistics, and technical issues. With a 50 character roster, would you put the extra time and effort in making an old character come back when you have a pending release date and your superiors breathing down your neck? I think not.

As for TL getting a new moveset, I'd hope so, however, I'm not so optimistic.

He's an unorginal fighter and still has to go through a balancing process, which is 90% if the work as stated by Sakurai himself in an interview. This is why all cloney fighters are unlikely to return (e.g. Toon Link, Falco, and Lucas), the only exception being Luigi, as he's THAT important.

Falco? Really? He's a major Starfox character, his moveset can easily be changed, and will be if need be.

Toon Link has a number of items from Wind Waker that he didn't use, he too, can easily be changed.

If it's that much work, then Toon Link's chances are more low, but not Falco. To my knowledge, he's a very important and popular Starfox character, they wouldn't just dump him, especially after he managed to make his way to Brawl after first appearing in Melee.

 

[Johnknight1]

Toon Link, Wolf, Jigglypuff. Especially blunt when they're the only characters that don't have any role in SSE.

Because the SSE is the only thing that matters in Brawl...

(the sad part is in Game Arts' opinion this is probably true)

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Toon Link, Wolf, Jigglypuff. Especially blunt when they're the only characters that don't have any role in SSE.

They were there that scene just got deleted. Link was walking through the forest when pegasus shows up plays the card toon world. He then takes toon link to the shadow realm where they have an epic battle. Pegasus knocks toon link to his knees and right before he can deal the finishing blow jiggly puff comes out of the pokeball link took of of PT. Jiggly puff uses sing and then then toon link triforce-slashes Pegasus off at the speed of light into space where he lands on wolf's ship.

 

[Hoots]

You mean like you thought of and reacted to the Wii Fit Trainer=??? You know, the most original character since Snake=???

I still think she is a total waste of a slot, but I can understand where Sakurai is coming from. If Pacman does (and probably will) get in, I'll have to deal, just like I deal with WFT. It doesn't make them any less of a waste of resources.

 

[Johnknight1]

I just realized something:

How can the roles of Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf be filler in the SSE...

...if the SSE itself is just filler=???

 

[FlareHabanero]

Because the SSE is the only thing that matters in Brawl...

Well there was the lack of role in SSE, the file names for said characters being among the last, none of those characters having any of the scrapped victory themes...

 

[Disfunkshunal]

I just realized something:

How can the roles of Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf be filler in the SSE...

...if the SSE itself is just filler=???

Inception?

 

[Mr. OC]

Well there was the lack of role in SSE, the file names for said characters being among the last, none of those characters having any of the scrapped victory themes...

SSE is a terrible example though.
Who plays Smash Bros for a "story"?

 

[Johnknight1]

I still think she is a total waste of a slot, but I can understand where Sakurai is coming from. If Pacman does (and probably will) get in, I'll have to deal, just like I deal with WFT. It doesn't make them any less of a waste of resources.

The Wii Fit Trainer is a waste of resources how=??? Taking up a spot of a less unique but more expected character by being totally unlike anything we've seen since the pre-release Brawl newcomer reveals=??? That sounds liek a worthy addition to me.

I don't know about you, but with like 3 "Nintendo All-Stars" not playable in Brawl (Mewtwo, K. Rool, and Ridley), we've got like nothing left. Nothing that sticks out or seems out of the norm. Right about now, we need that, which is why the Wii Fit Trainer was such an incredible addition.

As for Pac-Man, if he functions in a crazy manner like the Villager or the Wii Fit Trainer, then it is a great use of "resources."

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Well there was the lack of role in SSE, the file names for said characters being among the last, none of those characters having any of the scrapped victory themes...

I thought Wolf was the only one who didn't get a victory theme.

 

[FalKoopa]

...if the SSE itself is just filler=???

You don't devote 3/5-ths of the development time to filler content.

 

[FlareHabanero]

SSE is a terrible example though.
Who plays Smash Bros for a "story"?

Did you exactly read anything I said that stated SSE was an amazing piece of literature?

 

[Johnknight1]

Who plays Smash Bros for a "story"?

Inbred Nintendo fanboys/girls who think everything not Nintendo is evil and that Snake is a communist from Russia, whereas Sonic is a racist blue demi-devil.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Falco? Really? He's a major Starfox character, his moveset can easily be changed, and will be if need be.

Toon Link has a number of items from Wind Waker that he didn't use, he too, can easily be changed.

If it's that much work, then Toon Link's chances are more low, but not Falco. To my knowledge, he's a very important and popular Starfox character, they wouldn't just dump him, especially after he managed to make his way to Brawl after first appearing in Melee.

Yeah, but Toon Link is still Link; essentially the same entity. Link also has bunch of items from his games that he can use, but that doesn't stop them from recycling the same **** he had and making him garbage. If they change anyone for the better it should be THE Link.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I just realized something:

How can the roles of Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Wolf be filler in the SSE...

...if the SSE itself is just filler=???

It seems like they considered it a priority to me

 

[Mr. OC]

Did you exactly read anything I said that stated SSE was an amazing piece of literature?

No, but you did imply they're filler characters, due to not having a role in SSE.

It's especially a bad argument against Jigglypuff, seeing as it's been around since Smash64.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Subspace f*cking sucked.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Subspace f*cking sucked.

In other news, the sun is bright.

 

[Deleted member]

You mean the Link from the two worst Zelda games that thankfully not too many people played=???

Also, compared to the unusable Link in Brawl that was a travesty, he was pretty good. He also was one of the most exciting characters to play as.

On top of that, none of the Brawl roster was filler. They all played pretty differently, and most of them functioned right (sans tons and tons and tons of balance-related things, ROB being campy as crap, and Pit being awkward, spammy, and probably the most annoying smash bros character ever [glad he got fixed]).

I remember people saying this in Brawl, which is why I'm laughing so hard at you. Obviously you didn't study your history dear chap.

Ok, you're either calling Minish Cap or Majora's Mask "the worst Zelda of all time," I may just have to kill you today John. First Snake and now this?

Anyway, I'm not judging TL on how competent he is as a fighter, OBVIOUSLY he's a good character competitively. But the main reason for that is the versatility of his ranged attacks, and the speed of his close range moves. Something Link NEEDS desperately, and likely (hopefully) will get.

Anyway, the Brawl Roster did indeed have filler, a lot of the late reveals were added at the last minute, hence the disappointment in people that after Sonic, there was really no-one that exciting left to unlock. Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence supporting the idea that Jiggs was a last minute entry to the roster, which would mean that by defaul TL was too, as he wouldn't have been too difficult to program in. Last one would be Ness I'd say, as Lucas did indeed seem set to take his place. This makes sense as two vets, Mewtwo and Roy didn't come back despite leaving evidence of being planned for the game. It's likely those two were also planned as last minute additions, but didn't make the cut due to time constraints. The only late reveal I'd say was planned from the start would be Wolf, as he's much too different from Falco and Fox, barring the Landmaster FS, which once again, I'd say was due to Time Issues.

Anyway, all I'm saying is that it's likely we'll see the same situation once again, meaning clone-like character unless remade completely, get low priority. The only one completely safe from this I'd say is Ganondorf, who I think we will see get a more original moveset this time around (hopefully). Falco doesn't give much to work with, and personally, I'm not too optimistic on TL.

One last thing:

I remember people saying this in Brawl, which is why I'm laughing so hard at you. Obviously you didn't study your history dear chap.

Good thing the situation with Brawl was much different from the one we have now. It's foolish to think that things are gonna play out the same, when we've already seen they aren't. For the first time ever, Sakurai has openly voiced how characters that have unique concepts and ideas that "bring something fresh to Smash" will take priority, and has thus taken the initiuative to even rework old vets. Something, I'm sorry to say, a number of characters don't easily do.

In fact, the more I think about it, the less I see Falco coming back...

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Yeah, but Toon Link is still Link; essentially the same entity. Link also has bunch of items from his games that he can use, but that doesn't stop them from recycling the same **** he had and making him garbage. If they change anyone for the better it should be THE Link.

They are not the same entity. The Link seen in Smash 4's trailer is meant to represent Link, but not the one from Wind Waker. Toon Link represents this Link that looks notably different because of the game's style.

Recycling? I don't get it. They recycle loads of things from other games to add to the character's moveset, if that's what you mean, then by your logic, all characters are garbage.

There are plenty of things they could do for Toon Link, he would be perfectly fine. I might not be able to come up with the perfect new moveset, but I know Sakurai would.

I don't think Link needs to be changed, except for the physics of his recovery. That's the main issue with him in Brawl.

 

[Johnknight1]

Inception?

SSE is a fake story
within the Melee Adventure Mode story
which is a Story within the Brawl Event Matches
which is a story within the Melee Home-Run Contest
which is inside the Smash 64 Break the Targets story
which is within the Melee Event Matches Story
which dates back to the Brawl Boss Run story
which is in Melee's Multi-Man Melee Mode story
which of course goes back to the Classic Mode in Smash 64
which of course is within the Wifi Play on Brawl's story
which is in the All-Star Mode in Melee
which is in the Special Brawl in Brawl story
which leads to the training mode in Smash 64
which of course is just a small sample of the Melee "Special Movie"
which is a part of Brawl's opening
which of course is just a small part of Mega Man's confirmation video

which means that this all started, and this whole story mode is about...

SMASH SIXTY FOUR'S BOARD THE PLATFORMS!!!!!

(which is why it has yet to return)

 

[LiteralGrill]

You mean competitive-wise or online/casual-wise?

What stage lists do tournaments you often go to run?

 

[Jaedrik]

R.O.B: I exist

"However" replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
"A sense of obligation."

 

[Johnknight1]

Ok, you're either calling Minish Cap or Majora's Mask "the worst Zelda of all time," I may just have to kill you today John.

I was referencing Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures.

In fact, the more I think about it, the less I see Falco coming back...

Oh Gosh, not these people from the pre-Brawl days coming back again!!!

 

[Mr. OC]

"However, the fact does not create in me
"A sense of obligation." - The Universe.

"....but..I exist" - R.O.B

 

[FlareHabanero]

Oh Gosh, not these people from the pre-Brawl days coming back again!!!

Falco, Ganondorf, Young Link, Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Roy are going to be cut because clones are worse then Lucifer and we won't get any more clones at all. I swear this is true, my father works for Nintendo!

 

[Johnknight1]

You don't devote 3/5-ths of the development time to filler content.

Just like you don't kill off your only 2 cops and your 1 and only doctor in mafia.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

What stage lists do tournaments you often go to run?

According to the SmashWiki, a list of what's legal and what isn't for Brawl. (the links all go the stage's page on the wiki)

Starter

• Battlefield
• Castle Siege
• Final Destination
• Lylat Cruise
• Pokémon Stadium
• Smashville
• Yoshi's Island

Counterpick

• Brinstar
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Pokémon Stadium 2
• Rainbow Cruise

Banned

• 75 m
• Big Blue
• Bridge of Eldin
• Corneria
• Distant Planet
• Flat Zone 2
• Green Greens
• Green Hill Zone
• Hanenbow
• Jungle Japes
• Luigi's Mansion
• Mario Bros.
• Mario Circuit
• Mushroomy Kingdom (both 1-1 and 1-2)
• New Pork City
• Norfair
• Onett
• PictoChat
• Pirate Ship
• Port Town Aero Dive
• Rumble Falls
• Shadow Moses Island
• Skyworld
• Spear Pillar
• Summit
• Temple
• WarioWare, Inc.
• Yoshi's Island (Melee)