Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Sabrewulf238]

I assume/hope they are still fixing the winner announcement. Just hearing the announcer say "King K. Rool" in that new footage is really awkward.

Yeah. Although I do feel it's better than "X wins", I thought that was really awkward.

 

[N3ON]

"X wins" seems to be the only change that was nearly unanimously less favoured than in previous titles.

Which is saying something, given how insignificant it is.

 

[RandomAce]

They should just bring back “The Winner is...” it just fits Smash better and how they do their winning animations and there wasn’t a reason to change it except for the sake of it.

I feel that they’re trying to imitate other fighting games as they often say “X Wins” when a match is over. However, most fighting games only have the character do a simple animation without any flash effects or anything and just cut straight to an option selection, where as Smash has a freeze effect when the name is said and an overview where you can click start and goes back to the CSS.

 

[CheckmateChuck]

I assume/hope they are still fixing the winner announcement. Just hearing the announcer say "King K. Rool" in that new footage is really awkward.

Man, 7000 Posts, that's pretty incredible. Were you aware of that?

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Man, 7000 Posts, that's pretty incredible. Were you aware of that?

Oh crap. we did.

We are at a much faster rate than i've seen.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

Man, 7000 Posts, that's pretty incredible. Were you aware of that?

This should celebrated !
Victory !

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

when i think of a Gen 5 rep for smash, Gothitelle comes nowhere near even top 3

Zoroark, Genesect and Keldeo I think are way better candidates

Gardevoir i could see for gen 3, but honestly Blaziken or Sceptile would also fair well

also rip robbie rotton, he's still number one ;-;

 

[MrGame&Rock]

when i think of a Gen 5 rep for smash, Gothitelle comes nowhere near even top 3

Zoroark, Genesect and Keldeo I think are way better candidates

Gardevoir i could see for gen 3, but honestly Blaziken or Sceptile would also fair well

also rip robbie rotton, he's still number one ;-;

Oof. Yeah. That sounds unlikely.

This might seem like im being a basic *****, but i'd love for blaziken or infernaoe to have a slot.

*only if my suggestions get in first....*

I think Blaziken can work amazingly as a Falcon echo, so I am on the Blaziken hype train 1000%. If a Gen 5 rep is called for, I think Genesect would be the best possible choice

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I think Blaziken can work amazingly as a Falcon echo, so I am on the Blaziken hype train 1000%. If a Gen 5 rep is called for, I think Genesect would be the best possible choice

Blaziken as a Falco echo? But having an echo from a different franchise would be awkward. Most echos so far would be in the franchise that they are echoing from.

 

[N3ON]

Not to give credence to the leak, because I think it's obviously nonsense, but Gothitelle's primary reasoning for inclusion would be due to (a very tenuous) similarity to Gardevoir first and foremost, not to rep gen 5. That'd be secondary.

The same can be said of any clone, resemblance/feasibility first, character themselves second.

 

[MrGame&Rock]

Blaziken as a Falco echo? But having an echo from a different franchise would be awkward. Most echos so far would be in the franchise that they are echoing from.

Well I meant as a Captain Falcon echo. They’re from different series, but there’s a lot to work with. Their models match up well, both have a fire motif, and a lot of Falcon’s moves line up with Blaziken’s moves. Not only do both use kicks a lot, but moves like Falcon Punch, Falcon Kick, and even Raptor Boost and the Knee match up with moves of Blaziken’s (focus punch, blaze kick, fire punch, high jump kick). You could even do just enough to make Blaziken feel different by, say, giving him Rock Smash as a side-b (Zard isn’t using it) or Sky Uppercut as the up-b, (basically the Falcon Strike custom move) or by making Blaziken faster in the air but slower on the ground to account for his middling speed in-game and his lore about jumping really well. You’ll notice that all the “Blaziken in smash” mods use Captain Falcon as the base, after all.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Well I meant as a Captain Falcon echo. They’re from different series, but there’s a lot to work with. Their models match up well, both have a fire motif, and a lot of Falcon’s moves line up with Blaziken’s moves. Not only do both use kicks a lot, but moves like Falcon Punch, Falcon Kick, and even Raptor Boost and the Knee match up with moves of Blaziken’s (focus punch, blaze kick, fire punch, high jump kick). You could even do just enough to make Blaziken feel different by, say, giving him Rock Smash as a side-b (Zard isn’t using it) or Sky Uppercut as the up-b, (basically the Falcon Strike custom move) or by making Blaziken faster in the air but slower on the ground to account for his middling speed in-game and his lore about jumping really well. You’ll notice that all the “Blaziken in smash” mods use Captain Falcon as the base, after all.

But can echos be eching characters from different series? That sounds complicted, as echo fighters are meant to echo the fighters that share the same series as him.


I'd say Black shadow has a better chance being an echo of good ol' captain.

 

[N3ON]

At least with Ganondorf he was treated as his own character due to echoes not being a thing back then, but something like Blaziken being tethered to Captain Falcon would be very weird.

 

[iam8bit]

Not to give credence to the leak, because I think it's obviously nonsense, but Gothitelle's primary reasoning for inclusion would be due to (a very tenuous) similarity to Gardevoir first and foremost, not to rep gen 5. That'd be secondary.

The same can be said of any clone, resemblance/feasibility first, character themselves second.

It seems to be a combination of both, though it does seem like the character resemblance/easyness to clone is the primary reason. But so far, especially for Ultimate, it seems like they're really trying to use Echoes for characters that have been requested somewhat. In contrast to someone like Dark Pit in 4.

 

[Isaac4SmashUltimate]

I can tell you this without a doubt, if the real roaster was online we would know about it.

With the gematsu leak we had all but one.



Skull kid is like 50/50 now. He will not be an AT but play as something more. I feel like Zelda already has it's villian rep. 2 would be weird. However, atm I want everyone to get in. Isaac Geno and Skull Kid fans (The star sun and moon) . However I agree, I feel like he may be a boss. He can teleport around and such.

With Banjo it's a tricky situation. I feel like he will make DLC sellable.

Geno is in, I feel it. I feel like Square does not care about Geno. Maybe Square allowed Geno in Smash 4 but they put all the developmet at the time for DLC and Bayonetta. So the outfit was the best bet.


Im betting Isaac, Geno, and a Pokemon as the 3 next newcommers.

I mean, I get Isaac idc anymore, I will be a happy camper

About a second Zelda villain, why not give a second one just like how Super Mario has two of them? If I had to choose for a second Zelda villain, it'd be Vaati for being a recurring Zelda villain.

 

[N3ON]

It seems to be a combination of both, though it does seem like the character resemblance/easyness to clone is the primary reason. But so far, especially for Ultimate, it seems like they're really trying to use Echoes for characters that have been requested somewhat. In contrast to someone like Dark Pit in 4.

Yeah it's true that echoes appear to be dictated more by popularity, which is a nice change of pace, but it still seems like they're being used as padding, as clones pretty much typically are. This time around possibly harkens back to Melee where the roster of original newcomers may be lower than usual, hence the abundance of derivative additions.

 

[bassem6]

How much would use Isaac if he ever got in...

I would have him as a secondary at the least.

I would 100% main him starting off. If he is decently fun to play and at least mid tier or higher, I would continue maining him for the forseeable future. Mark my words, I'll be the best Isaac main for at least the first few months of release

 

[MrGame&Rock]

But can echos be eching characters from different series? That sounds complicted, as echo fighters are meant to echo the fighters that share the same series as him.


I'd say Black shadow has a better chance being an echo of good ol' captain.

At least with Ganondorf he was treated as his own character due to echoes not being a thing back then, but something like Blaziken being tethered to Captain Falcon would be very weird.

I don’t really think cross-series echos are that big an issue. Chrom and Roy never appeared in a game together without Awakening DLC and have (at least on a surface level) very little in common. But Chrom was made number 25e because Roy’s moveset translated very well onto Chrom, in a way that made sense, after altering one mechanic and one special move. I think Blaziken as number 11e (Captain Falcon Echo) would be similar. If the moveset, model, attributes etc translate well (and I believe they do) then why let something tangental to play get in the way? Especially since it’s probably the only way Blaziken would ever get in Smash in the first place and I seriously doubt the Echo spot would be used on Black Shadow even without Blaziken.

 

[Pwnapplez]

Yeah. Although I do feel it's better than "X wins", I thought that was really awkward.

I want to hear Isaac Wins
All I want to hear. Isaac wins. I love hearing Roy Wins (Fe6 best FE) but Isaac Wins is what we all want to hear after all this hype.

About a second Zelda villain, why not give a second one just like how Super Mario has two of them? If I had to choose for a second Zelda villain, it'd be Vaati for being a recurring Zelda villain.

I would love Vaati but he is a capcom Zelda villain. So that is up to capcom. However, out of all the Zelda Villains it Vaati and Knox both are super cool.

I would 100% main him starting off. If he is decently fun to play and at least mid tier or higher, I would continue maining him for the forseeable future. Mark my words, I'll be the best Isaac main for at least the first few months of release

Same with me. I main Roy still anytime I play Melee. I don't care about top tier I care about having fun!

I mean, Smash is a party game first.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I don’t really think cross-series echos are that big an issue. Chrom and Roy never appeared in a game together without Awakening DLC and have (at least on a surface level) very little in common. But Chrom was made number 25e because Roy’s moveset translated very well onto Chrom, in a way that made sense, after altering one mechanic and one special move. I think Blaziken as number 11e (Captain Falcon Echo) would be similar. If the moveset, model, attributes etc translate well (and I believe they do) then why let something tangental to play get in the way? Especially since it’s probably the only way Blaziken would ever get in Smash in the first place and I seriously doubt the Echo spot would be used on Black Shadow even without Blaziken.

I don't think that comparison is in anyway similar.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

I don’t really think cross-series echos are that big an issue. Chrom and Roy never appeared in a game together without Awakening DLC and have (at least on a surface level) very little in common. But Chrom was made number 25e because Roy’s moveset translated very well onto Chrom, in a way that made sense, after altering one mechanic and one special move. I think Blaziken as number 11e (Captain Falcon Echo) would be similar. If the moveset, model, attributes etc translate well (and I believe they do) then why let something tangental to play get in the way? Especially since it’s probably the only way Blaziken would ever get in Smash in the first place and I seriously doubt the Echo spot would be used on Black Shadow even without Blaziken.

I don't think you understand the big picture

the reason Chrom and Roy work is because they're both from the Fire Emblem Series, doesn't really matter if they don't appear in the same game.

CF and Blaziken literally are from two completely different franchises, they have 0% correlation with each other.

 

[Pwnapplez]

I don't understand the Isaac hate.

Like, I am fine with not liking him. However is it because he is now popular? Is it because others are salty?
Is it because of FE?

Dead franchise is not a valid point.

Isaac is a Nintendo character so I just want to know what is making people legit go crazy over him.

Like look, I don't like Ashley or Bandana Dee but I would't start a riot on gamefaqs if they were in or hinted at getting in.

Idk, I guess people like just saying **** to get attention.

that doesn't really make sense

the reason Chrom and Roy work is because they're both from Fire Emblem

CF and Blaziken literally are from two completely different franchises, they have 0% correlation with each other

I think Echos will always be from the same franchise.

The whole Capt Falcon vs Ganondorf clone debate is over since Ganon got an upgrade
But future Echoes will stick from the same franchise.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Isaac is a Nintendo character so I just want to know what is making people legit go crazy over him.

Because of hatred for anime swordsmen.

 

[?!?!?!]

I don't understand the Isaac hate.

Like, I am fine with not liking him. However is it because he is now popular? Is it because others are salty?
Is it because of FE?

Dead franchise is not a valid point.

Isaac is a Nintendo character so I just want to know what is making people legit go crazy over him.

Like look, I don't like Ashley or Bandana Dee but I would't start a riot on gamefaqs if they were in or hinted at getting in.

Idk, I guess people like just saying **** to get attention.



I think Echos will always be from the same franchise.

The whole Capt Falcon vs Ganondorf clone debate is over since Ganon got an upgrade
But future Echoes will stick from the same franchise.

I'm pretty sure they're only hating because they have other character(s) that they would rather see before Isaac. Or like you said they're hating/trolling just for attention

Also when they call him an anime sword boy or whatever, they just have no knowledge on the character so they hate. Every character will be hated by some, no matter how popular or likeable they may be its just a fact

 

[N3ON]

As support for a character becomes louder and more emphatic, so to does the dissent. It's no coincidence that the Isaac "hate" didn't start in earnest until more people started expecting him these last couple weeks. Everything basically gets dialled up to 11 when you're one of the front-running characters. Happened to Ridley, happened to K. Rool, happened to Pac-Man and Little Mac, so on and so forth. Now it's Isaac's turn.

 

[DogManStar]

As support for a character becomes louder and more emphatic, so to does the dissent. It's no coincidence that the Isaac "hate" didn't start in earnest until more people started expecting him these last couple weeks. Everything basically gets dialled up to 11 when you're one of the front-running characters. Happened to Ridley, happened to K. Rool, happened to Pac-Man and Little Mac, so on and so forth. Now it's Isaac's turn.

There have always been a couple of people on places like GameFAQs who are just determined to hate on GS as much as possible because they think the games are bad, but I'm starting to see more and more anti-swordsman people coming out of the woodworks as Isaac increases in popularity. New "haters", which definitely goes to show that Isaac is becoming very big in the community again.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

As support for a character becomes louder and more emphatic, so to does the dissent. It's no coincidence that the Isaac "hate" didn't start in earnest until more people started expecting him these last couple weeks. Everything basically gets dialled up to 11 when you're one of the front-running characters. Happened to Ridley, happened to K. Rool, happened to Pac-Man and Little Mac, so on and so forth. Now it's Isaac's turn.

Once the fanbases became more vocal over the tweet, so did the people who oppose it.

 

[N3ON]

There have always been a couple of people on places like GameFAQs who are just determined to hate on GS as much as possible because they think the games are bad, but I'm starting to see more and more anti-swordsman people coming out of the woodworks as Isaac increases in popularity. New "haters", which definitely goes to show that Isaac is becoming very big in the community again.

It's just hating for the sake of hating; nowhere in including a character does the quality of game they hail from become a factor. Obviously a better game might attract a larger audience, but that's a very indirect element to inclusion, even if it could be objective. And the swordsman argument has always been ridiculous, no matter who it's lobbied against. I suspect most of those criticisms are derived from people who know very little of Golden Sun. Nonetheless, if Sakurai were against more sword-wielders, he would stop adding sword-wielders.

But there will always be haters for any character as long as opinions exist, and people will always conflate personal sentiment for actual reasoning, so the best thing to do is just recognize that all these emerging negative opinions surrounding Isaac are only reactionary to the fact that the character has become exponentially more prevalent in the last little bit. It's not the first time, but now he doesn't have any of the big dogs to outrank him, except perhaps Geno.

 

[StormC]

I don't understand the Isaac hate.

Like, I am fine with not liking him. However is it because he is now popular? Is it because others are salty?
Is it because of FE?

Dead franchise is not a valid point.

Isaac is a Nintendo character so I just want to know what is making people legit go crazy over him.

Like look, I don't like Ashley or Bandana Dee but I would't start a riot on gamefaqs if they were in or hinted at getting in.

Idk, I guess people like just saying **** to get attention.

Other characters are now viewed as competition for their favorite with limited slots.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

It's just hating for the sake of hating; nowhere in including a character does the quality of game they hail from become a factor. Obviously a better game might attract a larger audience, but that's a very indirect element to inclusion, even if it could be objective. And the swordsman argument has always been ridiculous, no matter who it's lobbied against. I suspect most of those criticisms are derived from people who know very little of Golden Sun. Nonetheless, if Sakurai were against more sword-wielders, he would stop adding sword-wielders.

But there will always be haters for any character as long as opinions exist, and people will always conflate personal sentiment for actual reasoning, so the best thing to do is just recognize that all these emerging negative opinions surrounding Isaac are only reactionary to the fact that the character has become exponentially more prevalent in the last little bit. It's not the first time, but now he doesn't have any of the big dogs to outrank him, except perhaps Geno.

There is always gonna be an opposition to a character that isn't 100% confirmed.

Heck, if his games are really that awful that they don't need to be represented, you might as well throw out rob tbh.

Other characters are now viewed as competition for their favorite with limited slots.

Exactly. Smash Bros has always about the characters, and once the character has more of a potential to get in, the people with different characters they want in Smash feel a bit "threatened". They bash the character so they make him "less deserving" to be in Smash, so their picks feel more justified and more of a lock.

Which is BS if you ask me.

 

[candyissweet]

I don't understand the Isaac hate.

Like, I am fine with not liking him. However is it because he is now popular? Is it because others are salty?
Is it because of FE?

Dead franchise is not a valid point.

Isaac is a Nintendo character so I just want to know what is making people legit go crazy over him.

Like look, I don't like Ashley or Bandana Dee but I would't start a riot on gamefaqs if they were in or hinted at getting in.

Idk, I guess people like just saying **** to get attention.



I think Echos will always be from the same franchise.

The whole Capt Falcon vs Ganondorf clone debate is over since Ganon got an upgrade
But future Echoes will stick from the same franchise.

When a character starts to get more popular, it can be seen as a threat to other fanbases because space in Smash is limited, so they start hating a character more and more if it seems that the character may have a chance of taking the character they want off of the roster. For example, one of the most vocal haters there said they would rather see Andy than Isaac for GBA representation, so you could argue that they are hating on Isaac because Andy and Isaac both compete for that spot on the roster, but since Isaac is more popular, it's kind of like the existence of Isaac is preventing Andy from getting in.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Interestingly, if Isaac actually manages to be a playable character in this game, that would mean we'd get the second newcomer from 00's. At this point we only have , with being from the 80's, being from the 90's and being from the 10's.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

And so another great Smash War started ... By E3 2018, the Waluigi faction was decimated by a surprise assist trophy attack. 8 / 8 / 2018 The Golden Sun alliance is at its best but the dark forces of Skull kid draw near. Only the memories of our fallen friends remain ...Ashley, Shovel knight ... O mighty Sakurai, supreme ruler of these lands, save us from the deapth of despair and grant us salvation....................................... dammit.

 

[N3ON]

Once the fanbases became more vocal over the tweet, so did the people who oppose it.

I can see why opposition that is tied specifically to the tweet is fervent, as I do think reading too much into that pic is dangerous. Then again I also think reading too much into the chairs is dangerous too. Even should Isaac and Skull Kid and whoever end up making it, fan theories are known to collapse in on themselves.

Interestingly, if Isaac actually manages to be a playable character in this game, that would mean we'd get the second newcomer from 00's. At this point we only have , with being from the 80's, being from the 90's and being from the 10's.

Eventually I'm anticipating Shadow will join Dark Samus, round out the nice edgy 00s, but as far as original characters go, the only ones off the top of my head that could fill that spot(s) (not that they need filling) is Isaac or someone from Rhythm Heaven.

 

[StormC]

I can see why opposition that is tied specifically to the tweet is fervent, as I do think reading too much into that pic is dangerous. Then again I also think reading too much into the chairs is dangerous too. Even should Isaac and Skull Kid and whoever end up making it, fan theories are known to collapse in on themselves.


Eventually I'm anticipating Shadow will join Dark Samus, round out the nice edgy 00s, but as far as original characters go, the only ones off the top of my head that could fill that spot(s) (not that they need filling) is Isaac or someone from Rhythm Heaven.

That would make Shadow the first (only?) character to originate from the Dreamcast.

 

[N3ON]

That would make Shadow the first (only?) character to originate from the Dreamcast.

Well Sega has some great IP that began there, but Shadow's certainly the only one I'd give any kind of chance.

 

[Flynn.Scifo]

What is the consensus on Shadow and Ken as Echoes ? They seam really plausible but are they really necessary ?

 

[DogManStar]

What is the consensus on Shadow and Ken as Echoes ? They seam really plausible but are they really necessary ?

Echoes don't seem like they take much effort to add so I don't see any reason not to make them happen.

 

[ZelDan]

Yeah, as others have said, Isaac getting more positive attention will also bring in more negative attention.

In an odd sort of way, I almost kind of like seeing the negative attention because it does show that Isaac has reached that level now (I mean, I don't really like it that much as I obviously wouldn't want GS to get undeserved flack, but you know...)

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

Eventually I'm anticipating Shadow will join Dark Samus, round out the nice edgy 00s, but as far as original characters go, the only ones off the top of my head that could fill that spot(s) (not that they need filling) is Isaac or someone from Rhythm Heaven.

Just saying... half genie hero ;3