Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[FooltheFlames]

The more Issac movesets I look at, the more and more I want him to be playable!

 

[ZelDan]

What is the consensus on Shadow and Ken as Echoes ? They seam really plausible but are they really necessary ?

I'm not going to say they're "shoo-ins" like some might, but yeah, their chances are pretty good, and Shadow does have some things going for him, with how he hasn't been shown as an AT yet but Knuckles has.

I personally don't really care that much about either Shadow or Ken, but assuming they're echoes, I won't have any issues with their inclusion.

 

[SonicLink125]

Besides Isaac being my #1 most wanted, Shadow is another character I would like to see get in. Before the Smash Direct, my top 5 were Isaac, Simon Belmont, Sora, K. Rool and then Shadow. However, that has drastically changed since the direct and now Shadow is on my #2 list. Sora on the other hand, while still technically #3 on my list, I have accepted that he is not likely for several reasons. But I digress.

While Shadow being an Echo makes a lot of sense, I actually hope that he is his own character. Maybe semi-echo, I guess. He has a lot of moves that Sonic doesn't use like Chaos Control/Spear/Snap/Blast/Etc. Plus, if I remember correctly, SEGA technically still has the say in what Sonic (and Co.) get to have in Smash which is why we don't have better color swaps for Sonic for example.

Either way, I'm hyped for Isaac, Shadow and any other characters that get in after them!

 

[N3ON]

Just saying... half genie hero ;3

Uhhh... well, good luck.

 

[EarlTamm]

Uhhh... well, good luck.

She does have some good chances, at least I think.

 

[KMDP]

Dead franchise is not a valid point.

Just for fun, y'know what else are "dead franchises"?

( if fans are to be believed)

(Note: Mother is not technically "dead", but moreso "complete")

"That character is from a dead franchise" is, and always shall be, a joke of an argument when it comes to fan requested Characters in Smash.

 

[THE 6r]

Uhhh... well, good luck.

I believe Shovel Knight has effected her in either one of two ways:

1. "Shovel Knight is the Indie rep, though not playable"

or

2. "She is playable with a Shovel Knight assist to further rep Indies"

 

[EarlTamm]

I believe Shovel Knight has effected her in either one of two ways:

1. "Shovel Knight is the Indie rep, though not playable"

or

2. "She is playable with a Shovel Knight assist to further rep Indies"

I feel like Shantae has something in this game. Wayforward is pretending like Smash does not even exist right now, even to the point of not saying anything about the SK assist. No "Congratulations Yachtclub" or anything. The fact that Shantae has been missing from every indie fighter crossover(4 to be exact) certainly paints a picture that Wayforward is hiding something.

 

[?!?!?!]

I feel like Shantae has something in this game. Wayforward is pretending like Smash does not even exist right now, even to the point of not saying anything about the SK assist. No "Congratulations Yachtclub" or anything. The fact that Shantae has been missing from every indie fighter crossover(4 to be exact) certainly paints a picture that Wayforward is hiding something.

I think shantae is an assist trophy, otherwise it would trigger the shovel knight fans if one indie character gets better representation than the other

But at the same time, if she was an assist why didn't they show her off alongside shovel knight? hmm

 

[N3ON]

She didn't perform as well as Shovel Knight on the ballot, I can't see her getting a role in excess of his. Moreover Nintendo and Yacht Club seem to have a closer working relationship. Frankly I'll be quite surprised should she be in the game at all.

 

[SonicLink125]

Thought you all would get a kick out of this over on r/goldensun:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/comments/992i7q/speak_the_truth_sorrowofacheron/

You tell em, SorrowOfAcheron!

 

[DogManStar]

Thought you all would get a kick out of this over on r/goldensun:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/comments/992i7q/speak_the_truth_sorrowofacheron/

You tell em, SorrowOfAcheron!

SorrowOfAcheron is actually a user here who has told me similar things on GameFAQs before for being pessimistic. Always nice to see a fellow GS fan still fighting the good fight on GameFAQs.

 

[EarlTamm]

I think shantae is an assist trophy, otherwise it would trigger the shovel knight fans if one indie character gets better representation than the other

But at the same time, if she was an assist why didn't they show her off alongside shovel knight? hmm

I felt like they would have showed her off alongside him if she was an assist as well. It would not have been the first time a developer announced the two at the same time. They are pretty much Mr and Mrs Indie. And also, I don't think the SK fans would be that triggered. Yachtclub's origins are of Wayforward blood, as the creators of YC worked for Wayforward before they went on her own.

She didn't perform as well as Shovel Knight on the ballot, I can't see her getting a role in excess of his. Moreover Nintendo and Yacht Club seem to have a closer working relationship. Frankly I'll be quite surprised should she be in the game at all.

Actually, Wayforward has had a much bigger Nintendo relationship. The orriginal Shantae game goes back to Gameboy Color, Risky's Revenge was one of the best games on DSI Ware, and Pirates Curse was one of the top eshop games for a long time. There is a history. Heck, the chart I showed before has her as the secound most popular third party now, and she was not that far behind SK in the first place. Also, the SK amiibo does not really say anything big, it was all self funded by Yachtclub themselves.

 

[JaidynReiman]

She does have some goo chances, at least I think.

If he can't get a playable appearance, I don't see any Indie's getting one.

I felt like they would have showed her off alongside him if she was an assist as well.

I kinda agree to an extent, but then again, they did the same with Ashley. They didn't show her off at first, but just randomly confirmed her later anyway.

Regardless. Shovel Knight did far better during ballot polling than Shantae did. There's no doubt about that.

Actually, Wayforward has had a much bigger Nintendo relationship.

Nintendo published Shovel Knight in Japan. Shantae has no associated with Nintendo directly whereas Shovel Knight has through the amiibo and Nintendo publishing the game in Japan.

Shantae's history with Nintendo is longer, but that is not the same as Wayforward's "relationship" with Nintendo directly.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Just for fun, y'know what else are "dead franchises"?

( if fans are to be believed)

(Note: Mother is not technically "dead", but moreso "complete")

"That character is from a dead franchise" is, and always shall be, a joke of an argument when it comes to fan requested Characters in Smash.

Regardless of Konami shenanigans, fans agree that Metal Gear is also complete. They will probably agree on that even if we do get a new game down the line.

 

[Organization XIII]

I felt like they would have showed her off alongside him if she was an assist as well. It would not have been the first time a developer announced the two at the same time. They are pretty much Mr and Mrs Indie. And also, I don't think the SK fans would be that triggered. Yachtclub's origins are of Wayforward blood, as the creators of YC worked for Wayforward before they went on her own.

Actually, Wayforward has had a much bigger Nintendo relationship. The orriginal Shantae game goes back to Gameboy Color, Risky's Revenge was one of the best games on DSI Ware, and Pirates Curse was one of the top eshop games for a long time. There is a history. Heck, the chart I showed before has her as the secound most popular third party now, and she was not that far behind SK in the first place. Also, the SK amiibo does not really say anything big, it was all self funded by Yachtclub themselves.

But Nintendo themselves also brought Shovel Knight to Japan, their home turf, so I mean it's all well and good she's associated with Nintendo but I gonna say SK has the stronger ties.

 

[EarlTamm]

Nintendo published Shovel Knight in Japan. Shantae has no associated with Nintendo directly whereas Shovel Knight has through the amiibo and Nintendo publishing the game in Japan.

But Nintendo themselves also brought Shovel Knight to Japan. Their home turf so I mean it's all well and good she's associated with Nintendo but I gonna say SK has the stronger ties.

Even then, she became much more popular in Japan. Not saying SK was not liked, but Shantae got popular enough to got figurines of herself and her friend Rottytops made by Charagunmin. I don't think Shovel Knight is some be all end all of Indie reps, especially when these two were so neck and neck.

 

[TempestSurge]

I've been saying something similar the last few days.

Skull Kid is not necessarily a lock for Smash Ultimate; Skull Kid's fandom was at their quietest from the release of Smash 4 up to the August Direct, this includes the Ballot, when his support should have been at their loudest for best results.

I feel like people are beginning to see Skull Kid as a shoo-in, and are therefore setting themselves up for disappointment (and salt). It happened with Ridley (Sm4sh), it happened with K. Rool (S4DLC), it even happened with Waluigi (E3).

The only character who was a shoo-in was the Inklings, and we already have them.

Could Skull Kid get in? Yes, obviously. Is he guaranteed? No.

This just reminds me of the situation with Chrom back in 4. He was considered the obvious shoo-in for the next FE rep and that he'd replace Ike I had a field day disputing that one and he was on so many fan rosters, newcomer predictions and of course he had Gematsu which further helped his popular following in the Smash community. On the other hand, Robin being brought up as a possible option was always shot down, that there was no way that a blank avatar would get in over the face of Awakening and yada yada.

Robin wasn't the popular pick in the community for the new FE rep. And yet look who got in. A fan favorite in the smash speculation community doesn't necessarily guarantee a shoo in on a roster that has been finalized some two years ago. Also this is a bit late to the discussion lol.

 

[Teeb147]

She didn't perform as well as Shovel Knight on the ballot, I can't see her getting a role in excess of his. Moreover Nintendo and Yacht Club seem to have a closer working relationship. Frankly I'll be quite surprised should she be in the game at all.

She probably did better in the ballot, tbh, since it wasn't centralized to the americas.

 

[DogManStar]

She probably did better in the ballot, tbh, since it wasn't centralized to the americas.

I think I remember SK having a lot of presence over here, like Shantae did, but nothing in Japan. Shantae probably had more than him over there, even if it wasn't much, so that's a plus.

I wouldn't rule out any indie characters just yet, though I'm not optimistic about any of them.

 

[EarlTamm]

And let's not forget that the Consolidation chart puts her in a good position, and most characters in the top spots seem really accurate to what people want.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...aracters_from_estimated_ballot_poll/?sort=new

 

[DogManStar]

Seeing Isaac finally be in first still gets me hyped every time I see it. This better be our time to finally get him in!

 

[N3ON]

Actually, Wayforward has had a much bigger Nintendo relationship. The orriginal Shantae game goes back to Gameboy Color, Risky's Revenge was one of the best games on DSI Ware, and Pirates Curse was one of the top eshop games for a long time. There is a history. Heck, the chart I showed before has her as the secound most popular third party now, and she was not that far behind SK in the first place. Also, the SK amiibo does not really say anything big, it was all self funded by Yachtclub themselves.

That's longer, not closer. Indies are already working from a deficit and having and longstanding yet unremarkable relationship with Nintendo and popularity inferior to that of the included character isn't a recipe for playability. Incrementally higher popularity in Japan likely won't offset that, since Japan is probably not a positive factor in either characters' inclusion.

 

[KMDP]

This just reminds me of the situation with Chrom back in 4. He was considered the obvious shoo-in for the next FE rep and that he'd replace Ike I had a field day disputing that one and he was on so many fan rosters, newcomer predictions and of course he had Gematsu which further helped his popular following in the Smash community. On the other hand, Robin being brought up as a possible option was always shot down, that there was no way that a blank avatar would get in over the face of Awakening and yada yada.

Robin wasn't the popular pick in the community for the new FE rep. And yet look who got in. A fan favorite in the smash speculation community doesn't necessarily guarantee a shoo in on a roster that has been finalized some two years ago. Also this is a bit late to the discussion lol.

You know, since I wasn't part of the speculation at the time (well, I was lurking the Isaac and Nintenzone threads), Robin wasn't all that surprising to me (neither was Lucina, to be frank). In fact, I thought Robin and Lucina were more likely than Chrom. I think I was only vaguely aware of Gematsu.

I guess almost everyone forgot that Robin has a default design (two of them) and a personality. Mark from Fire Emblem 7 is a blank slate Avatar (they are so generic the closest thing to a design they have is like an 8x8 pixel sprite), Robin is not one of those things.

Anyway, Psycho Incarnate put it pretty succintly on the General Discussion thread, the Skull Kid supporters have not only grown massively in just a few days, they are also becoming arrogant, and I think it's why I draw mental parallels with the old "obvious" picks.

 

[JaidynReiman]

And let's not forget that the Consolidation chart puts her in a good position, and most characters in the top spots seem really accurate to what people want.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...aracters_from_estimated_ballot_poll/?sort=new

You do realize that's AFTER Shovel Knight was removed, right?

 

[EarlTamm]

You do realize that's AFTER Shovel Knight was removed, right?

Yes. Again, I don't believe he is some be all end all. I don't think him being assisted means she has no chance, especially with so many differing factors between the two.

 

[Teeb147]

That's longer, not closer. Indies are already working from a deficit and having and longstanding yet unremarkable relationship with Nintendo and popularity inferior to that of the included character isn't a recipe for playability. Incrementally higher popularity in Japan likely won't offset that, since Japan is probably not a positive factor in either characters' inclusion.

Hey why you gotta look down on Shantae.
Anyway, I dont know why Earl is doing shantae activism in the Isaac thread lol.

But anyway, we know shantae's chances are actually pretty high. Japan is where Sakurai's at, so i dunno why you think it doesn't matter..

 

[EarlTamm]

Hey why you gotta look down on Shantae.
Anyway, I dont know why Earl is doing shantae activism in the Isaac thread lol.

But anyway, we know shantae's chances are actually pretty high. Japan is where Sakurai's at, so i dunno why you think it doesn't matter..

Sorry, she was brought up and the conversation kept going. I'll stop.

 

[N3ON]

She probably did better in the ballot, tbh, since it wasn't centralized to the americas.

I really wouldn't count on Japan to do any heavy lifting here. And I haven't seen much to indicate European-exclusive results would differ wildly from that of the Americas.

Hey why you gotta look down on Shantae.
Anyway, I dont know why Earl is doing shantae activism in the Isaac thread lol.

But anyway, we know shantae's chances are actually pretty high. Japan is where Sakurai's at, so i dunno why you think it doesn't matter. anyway.

It is unremarkable, there's nothing inherently special about it. That doesn't mean it's bad, but there's no element to it which would give Shantae an edge.

And I don't think Japan will matter for Shantae because saying she has more popularity there than Shovel Knight is almost tantamount to saying more people in the west know Ayumi Tachibana over Goku from Yuyuki. You're comparing scant popularity to scant popularity.

But that's a good point, all of this is probably better suited to the Shantae thread. It should probably continue there.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I feel like Shantae has something in this game. Wayforward is pretending like Smash does not even exist right now, even to the point of not saying anything about the SK assist. No "Congratulations Yachtclub" or anything. The fact that Shantae has been missing from every indie fighter crossover(4 to be exact) certainly paints a picture that Wayforward is hiding something.

So i'm gonna be frank. I don't think Shantae has much of a chance.

Shantae might be popular in japan, moreso than SK, but even Ashley got made a AT despite her popularity in japan.


I also think i saw a leak come out from a WF employee say she isn't getting in.

 

[Teeb147]

I really wouldn't count on Japan to do any heavy lifting here. And I haven't seen much to indicate European-exclusive results would differ wildly from that of the Americas.


It is unremarkable, there's nothing inherently special about it. That doesn't mean it's bad, but there's no element to it which would give Shantae an edge.

And I don't think Japan will matter for Shantae because saying she has more popularity there than Shovel Knight is almost tantamount to saying more people in the west know Ayumi Tachibana over Goku from Yuyuki. You're dealing comparing scant popularity to scant popularity.

But that's a good point, all of this is probably better suited to the Shantae thread. It should probably continue there.

Clearly you're biased for some reason. Shantae is super special. Or maybe you havent really looked into it.
And yeah. if you feel like looking into it or knowing more our perspectives come on over to the shantae thread.
Just dropping by again. laters.

 

[Pwnapplez]

Because of hatred for anime swordsmen.

Just for fun, y'know what else are "dead franchises"?

( if fans are to be believed)

(Note: Mother is not technically "dead", but moreso "complete")

"That character is from a dead franchise" is, and always shall be, a joke of an argument when it comes to fan requested Characters in Smash.

Oh Yes, RIP big time.

SorrowOfAcheron is actually a user here who has told me similar things on GameFAQs before for being pessimistic. Always nice to see a fellow GS fan still fighting the good fight on GameFAQs.

I wonder what is changing people mind, is it all the negative press?
I envy the people who 100% think Isaac could be in.

Idk what to think since every day my opinion changes. I am just not ready for the HAHA ISAAC DIDNT GET IN! TOLD YOU. Just the satisfaction some people get. Oh well, only time will tell.

And let's not forget that the Consolidation chart puts her in a good position, and most characters in the top spots seem really accurate to what people want.
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/...aracters_from_estimated_ballot_poll/?sort=new

Crazy to see Isaac over Geno. I wonder if it showed on the ballot. Man, I can't belive this is Isaac best chance to get in. I am so nervous for the next reveal. I know it will hit us hard if Isaac is not shown next.

Clearly you're biased for some reason. Shantae is super special. Or maybe you havent really looked into it.
And yeah. if you feel like looking into it or knowing more our perspectives come on over to the shantae thread.
Just dropping by again. laters.

The problem with Shantae is she is indie atm. Yes she started on the GB but the fact is the face of the indie rise was Shovel Knight. (He also has an amiibo)
I think we are getting only one Indie rep. Shantae would be cool, but I think there are way more Nintendo and 3rd party characters that are on Sakurai eyes.

 

[User Name String]

Solely rooting for Issac because how good Fight Of The Sons is and there could be a chance of a remix/remaster. Just needs better than DS Quality and it would be perfect.

 

[Calane]

How about we just hope for the best regarding everyone and the characters they support. No need to try and bring down other supporters and all that.

I mean, even if we don't always support the same characters, we're all in this together.

Of course, I'm just a random nobody, so it's not like anyone has to listen to me or anything. Just giving my two cents.

 

[N3ON]

Clearly you're biased for some reason. Shantae is super special. Or maybe you havent really looked into it.
And yeah. if you feel like looking into it or knowing more our perspectives come on over to the shantae thread.
Just dropping by again. laters.

Right, I don't expect Shantae so I must be biased against her. On the contrary, I've played every Shantae game except the latest one (which, incidentally, I backed on kickstarter - just haven't gotten around to playing it yet). You'll find me saying Shantae would be cool in Smash since before the ballot was a thing, when barely anyone was talking about her. See for yourself.
Might also want to check who created the banner for the original thread.

I guess looking at things rationally is just bias nowadays...

 

[Deleted member]

The one thing I'm glad about this thread as far as the message count is something that N3ON was worried we would wind up doing, only not. And that is that we are discussing feasible topics, such as more dumb leak "rumors" and whatnot.

 

[Teeb147]

Right, I don't expect Shantae so I must be biased against her. On the contrary, I've played every Shantae game except the latest one (which, incidentally, I backed on kickstarter - just haven't gotten around to playing it yet). You'll find me saying Shantae would be cool in Smash since before the ballot was a thing, when barely anyone was talking about her. See for yourself.
Might also want to check who created the banner for the original thread.

I guess looking at things rationally is just bias nowadays...

There's a difference between looking at the different sides and sticking to one that you think is rational.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

How about we just hope for the best regarding everyone and the characters they support. No need to try and bring down other supporters and all that.

I mean, even if we don't always support the same characters, we're all in this together.

Of course, I'm just a random nobody, so it's not like anyone has to listen to me or anything. Just giving my two cents.

Here's the thing though. i DOUBT my own choice too.

I am supportive of other characters cause i want them to have a chance...But i'm going to be realistic.

That said, i'm okay with shantae in smash. I'm just not sure if her chances are that good.

Much like i'm not sure if isaac's chances are good. (even if i try to convince myself they are.)

 

[Pwnapplez]

Looks like Verg is defending Golden Sun

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76919963?jumpto=111#111

The "leaking" scene is giving me a headache.

How about we just hope for the best regarding everyone and the characters they support. No need to try and bring down other supporters and all that.

I mean, even if we don't always support the same characters, we're all in this together.

Of course, I'm just a random nobody, so it's not like anyone has to listen to me or anything. Just giving my two cents.

I agree! Well, good choices, not stupid troll ones.

Right, I don't expect Shantae so I must be biased against her. On the contrary, I've played every Shantae game except the latest one (which, incidentally, I backed on kickstarter - just haven't gotten around to playing it yet). You'll find me saying Shantae would be cool in Smash since before the ballot was a thing, when barely anyone was talking about her. See for yourself.
Might also want to check who created the banner for the original thread.

I guess looking at things rationally is just bias nowadays...

I think people are just angry when you don't agree with their choice getting in. I like looking at reasons why Isaac wont make it in see people's arguments when they are good. Not when they are trying to bait people

There's a difference between looking at the different sides and sticking to one that you think is rational.

I don't think NEON is trying to stick with a rational side, I think it's just evidence adding up.

 

[Ultinarok]

Whoops. Got replies and "views" mixed up.

Still, you're like...the third biggest thread in terms of replies. Nothing to scoff at.

Geno is 4th in terms of official supporters though. Bandana Dee and Geno are both beaten out by my girl Dixie at the moment despite her thread being smaller.

Of course the Isaac thread takes number 1 in replies and supporter count. His standing really is impressive, even though I keep seeing people proclaim that he is not as popular as we make it seem.