Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Teeb147]

The problem with Shantae is she is indie atm. Yes she started on the GB but the fact is the face of the indie rise was Shovel Knight. (He also has an amiibo)
I think we are getting only one Indie rep. Shantae would be cool, but I think there are way more Nintendo and 3rd party characters that are on Sakurai eyes.

I don't think NEON is trying to stick with a rational side, I think it's just evidence adding up.

I kind of just came here and saw Earltamm arguing with some of you, and I don't know if I want to stick around.

You think she has low chances. We don't. We have more info because we've looked at more things. I haven't looked at as much Isaac stuff as you all, so even though I think his chances are lower than you, I'm not going to stick my nose and debate you. It's kind of an odd thing to do, I don't know why you want to push with what you have.

 

[Ultinarok]

There actually is more evidence than you would think when it comes to Shantae. It would take way to long to go through it, and this is not really the place, but go check out the Shantae thread, it is criminaly slept on to me.
As for the whole 2 FF songs, it's the composer that's likely causing the problem. Square has been lax on everything else, being very hands off with Cloud and his development, but it appears that the composer for FF7 is both expensive and very stingy with his songs from what I hear. Don't quote me on that, but that seems like the more likely problem.

I'd argue he deserves to be expensive and stingy though, because Nobuo Uematsu is a god among men.

And you're right actually, I have been sleeping on Shantae. It just occurred to me that I still don't know much about her character.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I kind of just came here and saw Earltamm arguing with some of you, and I don't know if I want to stick around.

You think she has low chances. We don't. We have more info because we've looked at more things. I haven't looked at as much Isaac stuff as you all, so even though I think his chances are lower than you, I'm not going to stick my nose and debate you. It's kind of an odd thing to do, I don't know why you want to push with what you have.

Listen, Teeb. I know you're trying to be positive, and i get why you find our behavior odd.

But that's because even i don't think isaac is 100% guaranteed. We've been at this for more than 10 years. Brawl, 4, and finally, ultimate.


The Golden Sun fanbase is so desperate, we had focused on a "tweet" as a possibility of Isaac being in smash.

So....expect nothing. It's better, because you won't set yourself up for disappointment.

And if she is in, Good. Then you will be surprised.

But for me, i will keep my expectations at a minimum.

 

[KMDP]

I wonder what is changing people mind, is it all the negative press?

The post is made on GameFAQs, GameFAQs is apparently notorious for being super anti-Golden Sun for whatever reason.

I trust you can connect the dots.

Geno is 4th in terms of official supporters though. Bandana Dee and Geno are both beaten out by my girl Dixie at the moment despite her thread being smaller.

Of course the Isaac thread takes number 1 in replies and supporter count. His standing really is impressive, even though I keep seeing people proclaim that he is not as popular as we make it seem.

Consistently making top 10 in polls from the ballot-era and having the most supporters on SmashBoards now that K. Rool and Ridley are confirmed is "not as popular as he seems"?

In what world?

 

[Organization XIII]

Of course, we aren't as big as we seem. If we were then that makes Isaac look incredibly likely in a game all about fan demand and that means that's another spot not reserved for X character other people support.

 

[Teeb147]

Listen, Teeb. I know you're trying to be positive, and i get why you find our behavior odd.

But that's because even i don't think isaac is 100% guaranteed. We've been at this for more than 10 years. Brawl, 4, and finally, ultimate.


The Golden Sun fanbase is so desperate, we had focused on a "tweet" as a possibility of Isaac being in smash.

So....expect nothing. It's better, because you won't set yourself up for disappointment.

And if she is in, Good. Then you will be surprised.

But for me, i will keep my expectations at a minimum.

I know, my account is from 11 years ago. And I know about desperation and managing expectations too.
I also know about a lot of other stuff when it comes to emotions and perception-bias.

And I'll be glad if you get Isaac, I had him in my sig in the past, he just got squeezed out because I changed a lot.
I still visit once in a while

 

[EarlTamm]

And you're right actually, I have been sleeping on Shantae. It just occurred to me that I still don't know much about her character.

Go check out her thread if you want. I feel like any more Shantae discussion here should really be moved to her thread. We all would be more than happy to inform stuff, as we have amased evidence.
I just hope everyone gets at least one thing they want. Be it Issac, Shantae, Geno, Skull Kid, Paper Mario, B&K, or whatever.

 

[Ultinarok]

The post is made on GameFAQs, GameFAQs is apparently notorious for being super anti-Golden Sun for whatever reason.

I trust you can connect the dots.

Consistently making top 10 in polls from the ballot-era and having the most supporters on SmashBoards now that K. Rool and Ridley are confirmed is "not as popular as he seems"?

In what world?

Many are convinced that he is a localized phenomenon on Smashboards. Characters like him and Dixie are disproportionately popular on here, that's true. But many are going so far as to suggest that he's almost a nobody outside of his adamant supporters, much like Geno. That he's basically not mainstream enough to be as popular as we treat him on here.

Citation for this is places like GameFAQs and Isaac's absence from many polls in Japan, where he is less popular. I don't believe that it's true, because people will downplay Golden Sun as a whole and that's often the catalyst for these beliefs.

 

[GoodGrief741]

This just reminds me of the situation with Chrom back in 4. He was considered the obvious shoo-in for the next FE rep and that he'd replace Ike I had a field day disputing that one and he was on so many fan rosters, newcomer predictions and of course he had Gematsu which further helped his popular following in the Smash community. On the other hand, Robin being brought up as a possible option was always shot down, that there was no way that a blank avatar would get in over the face of Awakening and yada yada.

Robin wasn't the popular pick in the community for the new FE rep. And yet look who got in. A fan favorite in the smash speculation community doesn't necessarily guarantee a shoo in on a roster that has been finalized some two years ago. Also this is a bit late to the discussion lol.

That was certainly a controversial pick though, in the end Chrom’s popularity ended up getting him into Ultimate. I don’t think, had he made it into 4 instead of Robin and Lucina, that we’d be seeing those two make it into Ultimate.

 

[StormC]

Everyone is convinced XYZ is evidence of their favorite character being in Smash, no matter how likely or unlikely.

 

[Pwnapplez]

I kind of just came here and saw Earltamm arguing with some of you, and I don't know if I want to stick around.

You think she has low chances. We don't. We have more info because we've looked at more things. I haven't looked at as much Isaac stuff as you all, so even though I think his chances are lower than you, I'm not going to stick my nose and debate you. It's kind of an odd thing to do, I don't know why you want to push with what you have.

What?
I am not saying that I am against her getting in. Nor do I care about the character. She is not on my radar.
You can have all the info, however, even if the character had the best evidence to get in Smash does not mean they are getting in.


It's up to Sakurai.

Isaac atm is currently on top, however, it is up to Sakurai to put him in.

Don't become like a crazy Ashley fan.

It's not about popularity, it's about Sakurai.

No one here is bashing who you want. We are just trying to have a friendly debate. It's a conversation. Just because someone disagrees with their opinion does not mean that we don't want you here.

However, don't let your fanboyism/fangirlism get in the way of talking about a character.


If you came with points about Isaac not being in, we would talk about it. Not get pissy and say that you are closed minded. It's a discussion.

Everyone is convinced XYZ is evidence of their favorite character being in Smash, no matter how likely or unlikely.

Amen

Go check out her thread if you want. I feel like any Shantae discussion here should really be moved to her thread. We all would be more than happy to inform stuff, as we have amased evidence.
I just hope everyone gets at least one thing they want. Be it Issac, Shantae, Geno, Skull Kid, Paper Mario, B&K, or whatever.

Exactly, we are all rooting for other characters. I don't think anyone here is "IF IT IS NOT ISAAC WE WILL NOT BUY"
We are not crazy.

The post is made on GameFAQs, GameFAQs is apparently notorious for being super anti-Golden Sun for whatever reason.

I trust you can connect the dots.

Consistently making top 10 in polls from the ballot-era and having the most supporters on SmashBoards now that K. Rool and Ridley are confirmed is "not as popular as he seems"?

In what world?

I think people on gamefaqs are just starting **** to start ****. Bait GS fans in to just annoy em. Hopefull Isaac is in, so the hate can move to something else

 

[NessAtc.]

Many are convinced that he is a localized phenomenon on Smashboards. Characters like him and Dixie are disproportionately popular on here, that's true. But many are going so far as to suggest that he's almost a nobody outside of his adamant supporters, much like Geno. That he's basically not mainstream enough to be as popular as we treat him on here.

Citation for this is places like GameFAQs and Isaac's absence from many polls in Japan, where he is less popular. I don't believe that it's true, because people will downplay Golden Sun as a whole and that's often the catalyst for these beliefs.

Gamefaqs is an echo chamber of vocal minorities. Pay it no mind.

 

[candyissweet]

I kind of just came here and saw Earltamm arguing with some of you, and I don't know if I want to stick around.

You think she has low chances. We don't. We have more info because we've looked at more things. I haven't looked at as much Isaac stuff as you all, so even though I think his chances are lower than you, I'm not going to stick my nose and debate you. It's kind of an odd thing to do, I don't know why you want to push with what you have.

Similarly to how people looked at the Rathalos and thought we were crazy, I think people who are not as invested in a character usually lower the chances a bit because they haven't really analyzed the hints as much. A lot of people on this thread (such as myself) don't know much about Shantae and are less invested in analysis which is why some of us may think her chances are lower, just like how people who don't support Isaac think that the Rathalos theory is a reach. So don't let the pessimism on this thread discourage you, I personally don't know Shantae very well but I think the more you know about a character the more accurate you can make your predictions to be.

Edit: my grammar sucks, hopefully this is easy enough to understand lol

 

[KMDP]

Many are convinced that he is a localized phenomenon on Smashboards. Characters like him and Dixie are disproportionately popular on here, that's true. But many are going so far as to suggest that he's almost a nobody outside of his adamant supporters, much like Geno. That he's basically not mainstream enough to be as popular as we treat him on here.

Citation for this is places like GameFAQs and Isaac's absence from many polls in Japan, where he is less popular. I don't believe that it's true, because people will downplay Golden Sun as a whole and that's often the catalyst for these beliefs.

GameFAQs' attitude boils my blood, and I'm not an angry person by nature.

...Golden Sun was big enough to be put on the back of the Game Boy Advance's box... twice (On the GBA's box for the original, and on the SP's for Lost Age), this put it with things like Legend of Zelda: LTTP/FS and Wario Land 4.

"Golden Sun isn't that popular in Japan"... so what? What about Europe? America? Do they suddenly not count when it comes specifically to characters GameFAQs don't like? I can list off two franchises that aren't that popular in Japan: Metroid and Punch-Out!!

(Note: Sonic the Hedgehog is also not as popular in Japan as it is in America and Europe)

Oh, what's this I have here?
Almost looks like characters who aren't popular in Japan are allowed to get in. This is what the ballot being multi-regional was for.

Bloody idiots...

 

[Teeb147]

Similarly to how people looked at the Rathalos and thought we were crazy, I think people who are not as invested in a character usually lower the chances a bit because they haven't really analyzed the hints as much. A lot of people on this thread (such as myself) don't know much about Shantae and are less invested in analysis which is why some of us may think her chances are lower, just like how people who don't support Isaac think that the Rathalos theory is a reach. So don't let the pessimism on this thread discourage you, I personally don't know Shantae very well but I think the more you know about a character the more accurate you can make your predictions to be.

Edit: my grammar sucks, hopefully this is easy enough to understand lol

Yes exactly. You get it. It goes along the lines of perception bias.
I won't deny that certain bits are reaches, but then there's other parts that are pretty powerful and it takes to look at different areas to understand how significant it is. The thing is, also, is that sometimes it's hard to tell them apart when you're invested in it, because to you something meaning they're in will get a lot more value than to someone who's not invested. On the flip side it can happen that you have trouble telling what's compelling evidence as a whole, and if you can't play devil's advocate a little you might put too much value in something that may not actually mean that much.

 

[EarlTamm]

Btw, I don't know much about Golden Sun, but aren't Djinn important in the game? Maybe that's why Shantae seems to be a recurring topic lately. Idk, can someone fan art that? I think it would be humerus.

Edit: And/or cool.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

The one thing I'm glad about this thread as far as the message count is something that N3ON was worried we would wind up doing, only not. And that is that we are discussing feasible topics, such as more dumb leak "rumors" and whatnot.

Lmao. So true.

Geno is 4th in terms of official supporters though. Bandana Dee and Geno are both beaten out by my girl Dixie at the moment despite her thread being smaller.

Of course the Isaac thread takes number 1 in replies and supporter count. His standing really is impressive, even though I keep seeing people proclaim that he is not as popular as we make it seem.

I'm not surprised. Dixie was being made for brawl, so i'm sure sakurai knows of her. and making her an echo would be much easier.

I'd argue he deserves to be expensive and stingy though, because Nobuo Uematsu is a god among men.

And you're right actually, I have been sleeping on Shantae. It just occurred to me that I still don't know much about her character.

I mean, i have played the games, and i will say that i would want Pirate's Curse to be main inspiration for her moveset. If it's anything other than that, no thanks.

The post is made on GameFAQs, GameFAQs is apparently notorious for being super anti-Golden Sun for whatever reason.

I trust you can connect the dots.

Consistently making top 10 in polls from the ballot-era and having the most supporters on SmashBoards now that K. Rool and Ridley are confirmed is "not as popular as he seems"?

In what world?

GameFAQS is really that bad? Geez.

And also, it's nice that we're on top. But don't let it get to your heads. Popularity means nothing to Sakurai.

 

[StormC]

I think if people who aren't Shantae fans start saying she has a good chance people would take her more seriously.

K. Rool got a lot of people who expected him outside of his fans - arguably even more than his fans at times, due to cynicism.

I'm neutral on Isaac but I think he has pretty good odds this time around. Not great... but good.

 

[EarlTamm]

I think if people who aren't Shantae fans start saying she has a good chance people would take her more seriously.

K. Rool got a lot of people who expected him outside of his fans - arguably even more than his fans at times, due to cynicism.

Yeah, that is the way the cookie crumbles. That sort of the thing is just takes time, and K.Rool had plenty of it. The same goes for Issac, but to a lesser extent due to people still disregarding the Rathaslos pic.

 

[Teeb147]

It depends on the person, how they think, and how they feel about different characters. Some people have biases so they won't look at the goodchances, they look for evidence against it instead. Sometimes there's a reason, can be emotional, not just rationalizing.

I have no problem saying that Geno has major chances for smash 5, but then there's some other ones I won't look at their good chances because I have bias against them, and then others I want but I'll have trouble looking at the good chances because they touch on sensitive scars, or other stuff like that.

 

[Organization XIII]

If all we had was the Rathalos picture I would be pretty sure Isaac wasn't in the game since I still don't think that was a hint. Luckily there's far more than a picture that may or may not have anything to do with Isaac making him look like a shoo-in

 

[TempestSurge]

That was certainly a controversial pick though, in the end Chrom’s popularity ended up getting him into Ultimate. I don’t think, had he made it into 4 instead of Robin and Lucina, that we’d be seeing those two make it into Ultimate.

Sakurai mentioned he had considered Chrom but saw that Robin would be more unique and then Palutena's guidance further pokes fun at Chrom being similar to Ike, that's why Sakurai chose Robin to begin with. The point is that Robin was chosen over him as the unique Awakening rep in Smash 4, despite Chrom having the obvious fan favorite popularity in the community, not that Chrom was never popular to begin with.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sakurai mentioned he had considered Chrom but saw that Robin would be more unique and then Palutena's guidance further pokes fun at Chrom being similar to Ike, that's why Sakurai chose Robin to begin with. The point is that Robin was chosen over him as the unique Awakening rep in Smash 4, despite Chrom having the obvious fan favorite popularity in the community, not that Chrom was never popular to begin with.

My point is that I doubt Sakurai will pull another thing like that, particularly not for the fanservice game that Ultimate is. It appears the multiple backlashes against 4’s character picks taught him a lesson.

 

[KMDP]

I've consistently held that Shantae is more likely to get in than any other Indie character; mostly due to her legacy with Nintendo. Her legacy gives her a pedigree that other indie characters simply don't have.

I think if people who aren't Shantae fans start saying she has a good chance people would take her more seriously.

K. Rool got a lot of people who expected him outside of his fans - arguably even more than his fans at times, due to cynicism.

I'm neutral on Isaac but I think he has pretty good odds this time around. Not great... but good.

One thing about K. Rool I just realized is that quite a few of the current Gaming Media Personalities (big and small) grew up with (and sing the praises of) the DKC trilogy.

You have...
The Completionist (Jirard Khalil)
Several (but not all) members of BrainScratchComms
ExoParadigmGamer
The Geek Critique
JonTron (moreso Banjo-Kazooie than DKC, but he's still a Rare Nut in any case)
Ross o'Donovan of GameGrumps (played DKC3 on GrumpCade with Arin, because it was his favourite)

...And more.

These guys can have a lot of sway with the way games are perceived, and I wouldn't be surprised if they had at least a bit of a hand in boosting K. Rool's popularity (also Dixie) among younger fans.

 

[StormC]

Really, the problem with Smash 4 came down to a lack of solid hype characters.

In the base game, the only "breaks the internet" type of character was Mega Man. There was Cloud two years later during DLC. And Bayonetta I guess.

So far we've already got . In far less newcomers, they've already exceeded the hype for Smash 4. Who knows what they have left?

 

[XenoWarriorX]

It depends on the person, how they think, and how they feel about different characters. Some people have biases so they won't look at the goodchances, they look for evidence against it instead. Sometimes there's a reason, can be emotional, not just rationalizing.

I have no problem saying that Geno has major chances for smash 5, but then there's some other ones I won't look at their good chances because I have bias against them, and then others I want but I'll have trouble looking at the good chances because they touch on sensitive scars, or other stuff like that.

I definitely agree that this is the case. While i don't nearly have as much of a connection with Shantae, i don't think she would be bad. If fact, she could be pretty good. (Though, only if they go with Pirate's curse. She has a much more streamlined movement than the rest of the games.)

But i'm just hoping for Isaac for this point. But i wish the best for you and the rest of the fans of Shantae.

Many are convinced that he is a localized phenomenon on Smashboards. Characters like him and Dixie are disproportionately popular on here, that's true. But many are going so far as to suggest that he's almost a nobody outside of his adamant supporters, much like Geno. That he's basically not mainstream enough to be as popular as we treat him on here.

Citation for this is places like GameFAQs and Isaac's absence from many polls in Japan, where he is less popular. I don't believe that it's true, because people will downplay Golden Sun as a whole and that's often the catalyst for these beliefs.

Gamefaqs is an echo chamber of vocal minorities. Pay it no mind.

GameFAQs' attitude boils my blood, and I'm not an angry person by nature.

...Golden Sun was big enough to be put on the back of the Game Boy Advance's box... twice (On the GBA's box for the original, and on the SP's for Lost Age), this put it with things like Legend of Zelda: LTTP/FS and Wario Land 4.

"Golden Sun isn't that popular in Japan"... so what? What about Europe? America? Do they suddenly not count when it comes specifically to characters GameFAQs don't like? I can list off two franchises that aren't that popular in Japan: Metroid and Punch-Out!!

(Note: Sonic the Hedgehog is also not as popular in Japan as it is in America and Europe)

Oh, what's this I have here?
Almost looks like characters who aren't popular in Japan are allowed to get in. This is what the ballot being multi-regional was for.

Bloody idiots...

Like, i don't think Isaac even with all of this stuff going for him has a chance.

But some of these arguments are just....bad.

Then again, i see these arguments on the Smash Ultimate discussion board.

 

[Ultinarok]

Gamefaqs is an echo chamber of vocal minorities. Pay it no mind.

Ha. As if I myself use GameFAQs. Not a chance.

It's just an opinion I've heard tossed around here on the Boards. GameFAQs just exacerbates it all by existing.

 

[EarlTamm]

I just had a thought. I will not deny that SK was more popular durring the days of the ballot, the statistics don't lie when it comes to the Consolidation doc. But what if SK holds the same scenario as Chrom, except this time it is with Indie's? Where he was more popular, and was a bit more iconic, but was passed up for someone who had a much more diverse moveset, but was still given some role in the game.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I like Shantae. She would be super unique with a style all her own, but as soon as I saw that Shovel Knight AT...everything else Indie related seemed to melt away..especially from the realm of "playable".

I will be truly shocked if Shantae, Sans, or any other Indie Rep is playable after that Shovel Knight R.I.P.

 

[KMDP]

I just had a thought. I will not deny that SK was more popular durring the days of the ballot, the statistics don't lie when it comes to the Consolidation doc. But what if SK holds the same scenario as Chrom, except this time it is with Indie's? Where he was more popular, and was a bit more iconic, but was passed up for someone who had a much more diverse moveset, but was still given some role in the game.

You said SK there and I thought for a second you were talking about Skull Kid. XD

I think you might be on to something here... maybe...

 

[EarlTamm]

You said SK there and I thought you were talking about Skull Kid. XD

I ran into the same thing when I went into the Skull Kid thread. Isn't the worse when an abbreviation can represent multiple things?

 

[KMDP]

I ran into the same thing when I went into the Skull Kid thread. Isn't the worse when an abbreviation can represent multiple things?

Yeah, a little earlier I abbreviated Skull Kid to "SK" and thought "Wait... people might think I'm talking about Shovel Knight..."

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I ran into the same thing when I went into the Skull Kid thread. Isn't the worse when an abbreviation can represent multiple things?

Animal Crossing
Assassins Creed.

Trust me, lol.

 

[?!?!?!]

I just had a thought. I will not deny that SK was more popular durring the days of the ballot, the statistics don't lie when it comes to the Consolidation doc. But what if SK holds the same scenario as Chrom, except this time it is with Indie's? Where he was more popular, and was a bit more iconic, but was passed up for someone who had a much more diverse moveset, but was still given some role in the game.

I mean idk, shovel knight has a wide variety of abilities to choose from so I think moveset diversity wouldn't have been an issue for him. Look at rival of aethers moveset for shovel knight as an example. I don't know much about shantae or her moveset potential, but I feel both her and shovel knight would/could have very diverse movesets

 

[EarlTamm]

Animal Crossing
Assassins Creed.

Trust me, lol.

That just sounds like a fan art opportunity to me. Does not help that Smash 4 made the villager into a homicidal maniac, now we can make him an Assassin!

 

[Eagle]

Really, the problem with Smash 4 came down to a lack of solid hype characters.

I really didn't realise just how poor the character selection was until comparing the Sm4sh's entire newcomer list with just the few ones we have now. Gotta wonder why it took Sakurai's 5th game to go all out on the fan favorites. I hope it still continues.

Animal Crossing
Assassins Creed.

Trust me, lol.

I love AC!

 

[EarlTamm]

I mean idk, shovel knight has a wide variety of abilities to choose from so I think moveset diversity wouldn't have been an issue for him. Look at rival of aethers moveset for shovel knight as an example. I don't know much about shantae or her moveset potential, but I feel both her and shovel knight would/could have very diverse movesets

The thing about Shantae and her moveset is that she has 4 games that you can pull from when it comes to her moveset, and the third game gave her an entirely new set of abilities in the Pirates Gear because she no longer had her Genie powers. And said Genie powers give her the ability to transform into animals like a monkey and elephant, to mythical creature like a harpy and Mermaid. It's also worth noting that Sakurai looks for uniqueness when it comes to his third party move sets, and I think Shantae is at a bit of an advantage. I love Shovel Knight, but has nothing really new to add that I can think of. I find Plague Knights and Specter Knights movesets more interesting, as we have not had a dedicated bomb user(Poor Bomberman) or Scythe user yet.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I really didn't realise just how poor the character selection was until comparing the Sm4sh's entire newcomer list with just the few ones we have now. Gotta wonder why it took Sakurai's 5th game to go all out on the fan favorites. I hope it still continues.


I love AC!

Assassin's crossing is my fav.

Though personally? Black Leaf was my favorite entry.

 

[Eagle]

Asiassin's crossing is my fav.

Though personally? Black Leaf was my favorite entry.

Good choice. I prefer Wild Revelations myself.

 

[TempestSurge]

My point is that I doubt Sakurai will pull another thing like that, particularly not for the fanservice game that Ultimate is. It appears the multiple backlashes against 4’s character picks taught him a lesson.

I won't even try to predict what Sakurai will do lol. Hoping the fanservice continues, if the next reveal or two are also highly requested/ballot favorites then I'd be able to cinfidently say, yeah this is full on fanservice. As of now, we're just in limbo not knowing who to expect next.