Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[StrawHatX]

Yeah, going off of this I am fully expecting the last pass character to be another third party from a similar situation as the others. I'm thinking maybe Lloyd, Doomguy, maybe Ryu or Sora...

Beyond that it is hard to say. Hopefully Sakurai in charge will take fan demand into account again and bring some old favorites on board. Not really sure what the expanding worlds thing meant, he could just want to bring in new iterations of old series (like Geno) or entirely new universes without playable characters (like Isaac or Lloyd.)

I take the “expanding worlds” comment as bringing more series in that don’t already have playable characters. That of course doesn’t have to mean EVERY single new character can’t be part of a series with playable characters already.

 

[TempestSurge]

I wouldn't say I have any expectations. If someone were to ask me, I would say the odds are highly unlikely.

Now, if that supposed rumor that stated Nintendo was surprised at the reception Isaac got when he revealed as just an AT again has any merit, then who knows, they may decide to do him out of fan demand.

The Isaac backlash is why I've been on board a second round of DLC even as early as Joker's single release. If Nintendo was to have a response it'd be in the form of getting more DLC in a reasonable timeframe of said incident. Not that this for sure means Isaac is a lock in this next batch of DLC, but his chances sure seem better with such an event recent in Nintendo's mind than waiting however long for the next game and then thinking, I sure hope Nintendo remembers that Isaac backlash that happened years ago lol.

 

[Xenigma]

So I've been mulling over what more DLC means for the past few days (particularly later in the week as I lost power to Hurricane Dorian, hooray coastal life), and I'm definitely more optimistic than I've been since Isaac's AT reveal, though like Bassoonist I'm still far from sold on a DLC extension meaning he's in. Here's the two thoughts of note I've had:

1. Regarding fan reaction, I know we mention it regularly, but have you gone back and watched the Nintendo New York reaction recently? It really is quite strong. A quick survey of other reactions from both that Direct and last week's suggests the NYC crowd isn't exactly hard to please, and straight-up disappointment like that is few and far between. I don't know how closely Nintendo pays attention to fan reactions, nor the timetables of DLC planning/development, but between those reactions, Golden Sundays, fan creations from the likes of Billybae10K and Stoic Seraphim, and the general excitement around the internet last year, it really feels like the Isaac community has stepped up when it counts. Now to just wait and see if it actually mattered...

2. While my brain tells me the final Fighters Pass spot has been locked since last year, my heart can't help but wonder if this DLC extension means that character gets swapped for one of the additional fighters. If you'd told me before last week that the final character was anything other than a third party, I'd think you were crazy. Now? Delaying that character for a bombshell like Waluigi or Isaac feels tantalizingly plausible, especially if they use that hype to sell preorders of a second Fighters Pass. The same logic also works well for the idea of Geno being that final character, as he's about as close to a first-party as a third-party can be, and I have no doubt the fan reaction would be strong. Granted, Geno may well have been the final character all along (sure would explain the missing Mii costume), but that wouldn't make him any less of a great pick going into potentially another year of DLC fighters.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Even though Isaac isn't that likely....at this point there aren't many characters that could be considered likely. (definitely nobody I'd call a "lock") It's feeling very much like an open contest.

The only characters that seem likely are the ones like Ryu Hayabusa and Doom Slayer because of the leakers. (and even Ryu is somewhat questionable now due to him appearing as a guest in that other "Ultimate" game)

 

[Guynamednelson]

The only characters that seem likely are the ones like Ryu Hayabusa and Doom Slayer because of the leakers. (and even Ryu is somewhat questionable now due to him appearing as a guest in that other "Ultimate" game)

Plus, one huge leak that said our pass would be Joker/Erdrick/Steve/Hayabusa/Doomguy has been getting weaker and weaker with every announcement:

Joker: Jack Frost doesn't appear at all. Said we would get Persona 5 Arena and we didn't.
Erdrick: Is an alt for the Luminary. Stage is Yggdrasil instead of Alefgard.
Steve: Our MS Rep is Banjo.
Hayabusa: We got Terry instead who is from SNK, a company ignored by the 5chan leak.

I still want Doomguy though, so we'll see.

 

[Bassoonist]

I can't believe I have to say this again

If there was not a single Golden Sun spirit in the game whatsoever, in spite of literally every other Nintendo franchise receiving at least one, that would be cause for curiosity. That's why they didn't leave it out.

I'm just curious why we're talking about spirits? I do agree that if there were no Golden Sun spirits when there were for literally every other Nintendo franchise ever created then it would certainly be odd (although it wouldn't give me confidence in DLC, it would just make me despair more), BUT it's not like putting in the Spirits meant that Isaac had to be included as an Assist Trophy. It's not an either or here.

Was the assist trophy necessary for the narrative? Probably not. But at the same time, it's a HELL of a lot easier to base a new character off of an existing model, and the assist was likely done FAR before DLC even started getting planned

I also have no idea where the hell this idea that base game content is affecting post-game content decisions came from. Post-game content is an entirely different ball game, we have literal evidence that the post game content was being planned WELL after the full game was finalized, and above all else, these extrapolations y'all are throwing around are assumptions without any basis, since the proposed scenario has never happened before.

So you believe that by the time they began deciding the Fighter's Pass characters the development of the game was beyond the point where they could have removed Isaac's Assist Trophy?

Remember you are claiming that Isaac is potentially the last of the Fighter's Pass characters. That's what we're discussing here. It's just not logical for Isaac to be in the Fighter's Pass because as far as we know the Fighter's Pass characters were decided early, before the Isaac AT backlash. It's just straight-up logic that if Isaac were decided that early, he wouldn't be an Assist Trophy. They wouldn't release the game that way. Assist Trophies are not meant to coexist with playable characters.

If Isaac is not Character #5, it won't be because he's an assist trophy. It won't be because he has content already in the game. It won't be because we have 2 JRPG characters already. It won't be because Sakurai arbitrarily decided the entire pass must be third party. There is only one reason:

He simply did not get picked. Nothing. Else.

Well, here's the facts we have right now:

1. Isaac is an Assist Trophy. No Assist Trophies have ever been upgraded within the same game's DLC.
2. 4 out of the 5 Fighter's Pass characters have been third party. This is clearly the direction they chose to go with the Fighter's Pass.

Fighter's Pass #5 will not be Isaac. I'm certain of this. (even though I dearly wish I was wrong, I'm certain we'll get some completely random irrelevant to Nintendo third party character) Now if you want to argue that he has a chance in the newly announced later DLC characters, that is a different matter. Then we can discuss them with less tie to how the base-game was released, as they were conceived later. However, the fact that Isaac is an Assist Trophy could still come back to haunt him. AT characters could very well not even be on the table for this DLC because they are Assist Trophies.

We hope not... But we need to see that same-game AT upgrade first to even assume that this is something that will really happen.

 

[NessAtc.]

I'm certain of this.

I was waiting for this. Not gonna bother taking this convo any further, carry on

 

[GoodGrief741]

However the AT situation has or hasn't affected Isaac's chances for the FP, we now know there's life after that. That, at the very least, should be our goal. If Isaac is or isn't, could or couldn't be in the FP, that's Schrodinger's Cat right now and we can't change that, only define it.

We do, however, have the chance to change things from now on. So let's just stop arguing and getting nowhere please!

 

[SonicLink125]

However the AT situation has or hasn't affected Isaac's chances for the FP, we now know there's life after that. That, at the very least, should be our goal. If Isaac is or isn't, could or couldn't be in the FP, that's Schrodinger's Cat right now and we can't change that, only define it.

We do, however, have the chance to change things from now on. So let's just stop arguing and getting nowhere please!

Agreed! We’ve supposedly only hit one peak. There’s nothing stopping us to support Isaac and go beyond another peak. We can’t go back anyway.

Somewhat relevant to what I’m talking about. Lol
You never know if Isaac can be a fighter unless we try. It’s only truly over when DLC is done.

 

[THE 6r]

Ryukas put this link in the discord where you put forum post screenshots and memes of our boy to show that we care about GS Click this sentence to go to the drive drop place thing.

 

[Onassi2]

Decided to come back as well, after hearing the news about the extra DLC. Glad to see the 50 Cent meme is alive and well haha.

Basically, I’m seeing it as this (and trying to do this objectively as I can):

- 4 out of the 5 fighters in Fighter’s Pass 1 seem to be third party and presumably planned before the game was even out. This makes me think Isaac is not the 5th character.

- The vision for Isaac was to be an assist trophy, and not a playable character, at least during planning, production, and release. Who knows if that’ll change? That’s up to the team. If they really don’t intend on making another smash game for eons, and are prioritizing satisfying fans, then maybe he has a shot.

- I actually believe that Isaac’s chances aren’t better one way or another, with or without his assist trophy. The thought process there being, “You can beat the crap out of Chrom with assistance from Chrom (Robin’s final smash), with even more assistance from your buddy playing as Mii Swordfighter dressed as Chrom”. It’s certainly unprecedented as of now, but who’s to say they need to remove Isaac’s assist trophy for him to be playable? Alfonso shows up to drive the train when Toon Link is fighting, maybe Assist Trophy Isaac doesn’t show up when someone chooses Isaac?

I don’t know, whenever we Smash fans come up with rules they end up being proven untrue and then we make more. He could 100% be upgraded to playable with DLC should they decide he’s interesting enough to develop into a fighter. They could also be happy with his role in the game as is.

I’d give him a 10% shot as of now.

 

[SonicLink125]

I always find it funny that people don’t realize that ATs have an off switch when needed. They don’t need to replace or remove the AT if they promote the character. Just either turn off the appearance of said AT while playing the character OR don’t even touch the AT at all. As Onassi2 said, “You can have Chrom fight Mii Chrom while being pulverized by Chrom in Robin’s Final Smash”. It’s weird that it’s such a big deal to people. I honestly wouldn’t mind playing as Isaac while summoning AT Isaac to help me while partnering up with Mii Isaac. That would be fun!

 

[Qeomash]

My main thought for why Isaac's AT would have to be removed is, say, you don't know the character and see the AT. You want to play as this OP grabbing dude, so you but him and play him...only to find out that he can't just spam over B and push people off the arena.

 

[Tetiro]

Why would Isaac's AT need to be swapped? I say just replace his AT with Matthew if they want to not remove an AT. Or deactivate whenever Isaac is around

 

[Mav485]

Just throwing out my ideas on how likely Isaac is in percentages...

As the last fighter in the first Pass? Zero percent.

For the content past the Pass? 10-15%.

I need large amounts of proof at this point, but I think there is a small chance based on the idea that Sakurai is going to what the fans have wanted.

Who would we say are the Top 5 1st and 3rd party characters still wanted at this point?

Waluigi, Isaac, Geno, Dixie...who else from Nintendo history? Bandana Dee, maybe? Some more Zelda characters?

For other third parties, Phoenix Wright is a huge one. Sora, Doomslayer, Dante (The slow release of DMC games on the eShop is raising my hopes on this one) and...?

 

[Organization XIII]

For DLC post pass we have a great chance. Firstly we know that the DLC was decided on sometime before Hero's presentation because Sakurai's Banjo presentation was recorded shortly after, he mentions it, and obviously things like this get planned and discussed well before being decided to show. Now we know we the time frame ends but don't when it starts. I'd say it was likely sometime after the pass was finalized and I'd guess probably after getting the numbers back for Joker sales. After seeing how much it raked in they probably jumped at the chance for more money. Now, this is important because during this time frame the characters discussed were basically just Geno, Hero, Banjo and Steve. Doom Guy and Ryu were talked about a little during this time but Ryu isn't pulling in the crowds with excitement and Doom Guy is as likely as my left toe for DLC so not really going to focus on them. That other four are significant because since they dominated the conversation which means no break out supported characters appeared during this time or before it so the needle on who is popular is exactly the same. If they want to please fans with actual fan requests Isaac is a top contender. We know he had strong ballot support and the lack of AT reveal, along with the grinch and Rathalos events, showing how excited people were for the character. Now while he didn't make the cut due to a severely limited newcomer pool, he did get a massive update in content showing again he was popular enough for a very dead series to be getting some high levels of attention. Now the AT is a problem for DLC in a DLC pool decided during the base game like the pass but considering this new batch of DLC has been decided after the pass was finalized and likely after the game was shipped, this is basically a chance to reevaluate the positions of characters previously looked at. This is no longer a case of "if they were going to be DLC why have the AT appear in the first place". We already know AT promotion is possible and since AT introduction every time a new roster has been decided on an AT has been promoted. They already have a method in-game to selectively turn off ATs for special conditions. They already noticed us. They already know AT status wasn't what the fans wanted. We are in a great spot right now.
The only thing against is literally that ATs as DLC hasn't happened yet, which isn't a real argument. It's a FAN rule for a reason and that reason is nothing developer wise supports it at all. That and some pretty good competition for popular choices in Geno and Waluigi though we don't know how long more DLC will continue. The longer the better though. Right now I'd rate our chances at 50% because we have no data on what types of characters they are looking into. Once we see one or two characters then it'll be easier to see where we stand but for other characters should be jealous of our position.

 

[DogManStar]

Yeah our chances right now are probably 50%. We don’t know enough yet to say for sure that Isaac is impossible or a lock. I have a slightly good feeling about this though, because I had been thinking all along that a second DLC group could possibly mean Isaac since it would be decided after the game came out and after the reactions to his AT.

 

[Gioka]

We have to wait till we get more info of where this new DLC is heading and what do they want to achieve before we can call it a victory but it is a renewal of hope, for certain, especially since this new batch is coming after the backlash/petitions for Isaac. We also don't know yet if there is anything GS getting done behind the scenes by Camelot

 

[Tetiro]

We have to wait till we get more info of where this new DLC is heading and what do they want to achieve before we can call it a victory but it is a renewal of hope, for certain, especially since this new batch is coming after the backlash/petitions for Isaac. We also don't know yet if there is anything GS getting done behind the scenes by Camelot

This is true. After all the new DLC could just be more third parties.

I think #5 and #6 will determine everything. #6 more than #5 obviously.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Just throwing out my ideas on how likely Isaac is in percentages...

As the last fighter in the first Pass? Zero percent.

For the content past the Pass? 10-15%.

I need large amounts of proof at this point, but I think there is a small chance based on the idea that Sakurai is going to what the fans have wanted.

Who would we say are the Top 5 1st and 3rd party characters still wanted at this point?

Waluigi, Isaac, Geno, Dixie...who else from Nintendo history? Bandana Dee, maybe? Some more Zelda characters?

For other third parties, Phoenix Wright is a huge one. Sora, Doomslayer, Dante (The slow release of DMC games on the eShop is raising my hopes on this one) and...?

Shantae, Shovel Knight, Bomberman, Krystal, Skull Kid, ect the list can go on. If the next batch of DLC is nothing but fan favorites, things sure will be very exciting.

 

[TempestSurge]

Why would Isaac's AT need to be swapped? I say just replace his AT with Matthew if they want to not remove an AT. Or deactivate whenever Isaac is around

In Isaac's case Sakurai could swap out his assist trophy, but then again if Waluigi gets promoted, he has one look and there's no way around that (there's also other assists that have one look) so I feel like Sakurai will either deactivate promoted assist characters. Or even just leave the assists in and joke about said character being both an assist and playable at the same time and getting help from their assist on the battlefield. Probably even use the assist to show off how much better the player models are. Since he didn't change Robin's final smash when he made Chrom playable and gave Rathalos two in game roles.

 

[Tetiro]

In Isaac's case Sakurai could swap out his assist trophy, but then again if Waluigi gets promoted, he has one look and there's no way around that (there's also other assists that have one look) so I feel like Sakurai will either deactivate promoted assist characters. Or even just leave the assists in and joke about said character being both an assist and playable at the same time and getting help from their assist on the battlefield. Probably even use the assist to show off how much better the player models are. Since he didn't change Robin's final smash when he made Chrom playable and gave Rathalos two in game roles.

What are the fan rules anymore after this game? XD

 

[RetrogamerMax]

What are the fan rules anymore after this game? XD

People will always make fan rules as long as Smash exists. To some people fan rules are a imaginary road block that stops characters they don't want from getting in.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Who would we say are the Top 5 1st and 3rd party characters still wanted at this point?

Waluigi, Isaac, Geno, Dixie...who else from Nintendo history? Bandana Dee, maybe? Some more Zelda characters?

For other third parties, Phoenix Wright is a huge one. Sora, Doomslayer, Dante (The slow release of DMC games on the eShop is raising my hopes on this one) and...?

I just came back on the different polls. We need to take into account that Sakurai is still slightly more picking Japanese choices. Don't forget that these polls may be biased against the already known AT at their time.

Spoiler: Pictures

https://i.imgtc.com/COf52oG.jpg
https://external-preview.redd.it/TB...bp&s=9a0e0fdb7fe57c269a20e8d72dc5c0ba81bf821b
https://i.redd.it/stdxc741aog11.png
https://i.imgur.com/tMk1ogx.png

As first party, things to note:
- in Japan, Rex and BWD are on top. Both have less, but still strong, support in the west.
- in west, Isaac is strong. Like Rex and BWD but reversed, he is still recognized by Japan, but at a lower place.
- Geno is a weird case, because he has more support in West than in Japan, but in one case, it was reversed. In my personal opinion, he is still a niche.
- Paper Mario, Dixie, Ashley and Skull Kid have some supports everywhere. However, for Paper Mario and Skull Kid, it seems it was mostly a bandwagon because we don't see them anymore nowadays.
- Magolor is a Japan thing
- Waluigi is not in these polls but probably because we was already known as a trophy. He may be anywhere in term of raw support.

As of third party, it's way more dividing, except for a few characters :
- Sora and Steve are really strong in Japan, and quite strong in the west
- Crash is liked everywhere
- the Hunter, Lloyd, Phoenix are known by everyone but lower in the polls
- Spyro, Rayman, Doomguy, Amateratsu and Shantae are quite strong in the west, but nowhere to be seen in Japan
- 2B is strong in Japan, but not in the west
- other current discussed characters like Ryu Hayabusa, Heihachi, Dante or Master chief are low or non existant in these polls, both in Japan and the west.

Like I said, and people on the internet often forget that but Sakurai is slightly biased toward Japan. It happened we got characters known in Japan but unknown in the west, the opposite didn't happened. However, it happened we got characters more liked by the west than Japan (Mac, Ridley, B&K), but they were all still known in Japan.

In my opinion, characters mostly unknown in Japan are out. That would be the case for several third party (Rayman, Master chief, Shantae, Spyro, Doomguy, and so on).
The top contender, still IMO, as third parties are Sora, Steve, Crash, the Hunter, Lloyd and Phoenix. Ryu Hayabusa have a lot of traction nowadays but it's mostly based on rumors; he doesn't seem to be wanted. Doomguy is also discussed a lot but Japan doesn't seem to want him, I don't see him coming.

As first parties, it's harder to tell. Like I said, Paper Mario and Skull Kid were a bandwagon: let's remove them. What remains is Rex, Waluigi, BWD, Isaac, Geno and Ashley, in any order.

Hard to tell what's coming and what's not coming. My personal feeling is that the 5th of the pass will one of the third party I listed, minus Sora (who could come in the future however).

If Sakurai want to expand the world of Smash, in the first parties, only Isaac is from a serie with no fighters. If we have 5 new first parties characters as DLC, I feel he is a lock. We just have to believe future DLC won't be only third parties.

 

[Billybae10K]

It's a shame that we really have no way of knowing where the DLC will be heading for now. Honestly, I don't expect us to find anything about character 6 until around January/February, and there's every chance that they just continue with this trend of adding third parties, but wouldn't it be magical if we finally got lucky.

I'm allowing myself to hope because honestly, nothing can feel as bad as falling for the Grinch leak and seeing Isaac as an assist - There is nothing worse that can be thrown at us at this point, so I'm not gonna bother talking in chances or debating whether he can happen, because we won't know for a good few months yet, but what I do know is that this character still needs our support.

This series still needs our support. That should be our primary focus right now, keeping momentum up, not losing the momentum we gained last year.

 

[Kalaam]

Well, during the direct they said that more information about future fighters would come soon. So who knows what they'll have to say.

 

[StrawHatX]

Well, during the direct they said that more information about future fighters would come soon. So who knows what they'll have to say.

Hopefully the information is “We are looking at some fan favorites regardless of if they’re currently in the game in some form. Everyone is possible!”

 

[Istry555]

Sadly, the only assist trophy I feel will be in the second batch of DLC is Waluigi. Nintendo didn't understand that the uproar over his exclusion was more a meme than serious and is going to end up rewarding the fanbass basically harassing Nintendo when his assist trophy was revealed. That has also likely overshadowed all other assist trophies in Nintendo's eyes.

I'm ambivalent about Waluigi, even being a fellow Camelot character. It just irks me that the character is still likely after they harassed Nintendo. Meanwhile, other characters like Isaac (who has been traditionally more requested over past Smash games) will get overlooked again because his fan base had the decency to bow out gracefully after seeing the assist trophy and didn't harass Nintendo.

Just goes to show that even if the character is impossible to get in at the moment, we should never let up telling Nintendo our support. However, I'll admit, I have basically no hope of Isaac ever getting in at this point. I don't see him happening now (for the above reasons) and Golden Sun will be even older next Smash (plus the move towards including more recent and more third party characters) makes me feel that this is the end of the line. Ultimate was really our last big chance but characters like Isaac are just not the direction Sakurai and Nintendo want to take the series anymore.

I'll just hope his assist trophy at least returns again next Smash and take some comfort that at least Isaac still has a large following on boards like these.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Sadly, the only assist trophy I feel will be in the second batch of DLC is Waluigi. Nintendo didn't understand that the uproar over his exclusion was more a meme than serious and is going to end up rewarding the fanbass basically harassing Nintendo when his assist trophy was revealed. That has also likely overshadowed all other assist trophies in Nintendo's eyes.

I'm ambivalent about Waluigi, even being a fellow Camelot character. It just irks me that the character is still likely after they harassed Nintendo. Meanwhile, other characters like Isaac (who has been traditionally more requested over past Smash games) will get overlooked again because his fan base had the decency to bow out gracefully after seeing the assist trophy and didn't harass Nintendo.

Just goes to show that even if the character is impossible to get in at the moment, we should never let up telling Nintendo our support. However, I'll admit, I have basically no hope of Isaac ever getting in at this point. I don't see him happening now (for the above reasons) and Golden Sun will be even older next Smash (plus the move towards including more recent and more third party characters) makes me feel that this is the end of the line. Ultimate was really our last big chance but characters like Isaac are just not the direction Sakurai and Nintendo want to take the series anymore.

I'll just hope his assist trophy at least returns again next Smash and take some comfort that at least Isaac still has a large following on boards like these.

The Waluigi fanbase didn't harassed Sakurai it was just two kids on Twitter that were threatening him with 9/11 references.

 

[Deleted member]

Well over on the Geno thread we're collecting formal emails and messages to send to SE, Nintendo and Sora LTD campaigning for Geno to return in the future and/or as one of these additional DLC characters. I propose the idea that we could do the same over here for Isaac?

I assume since Sakurai wants to please the fans and go for as long as they can they haven't chosen all the additional DLC characters so why not strike while the iron is hot? We could formally send in emails and requests for Golden Sun to return and for Isaac to be one of these additional DLC characters just to remind them that while we appreciate all the work they put into the game we're not content with Isaac just being an assist.

I dunno it's just an idea it may work it may not. Either way I hope we get Isaac as a playable character!

 

[Gioka]

Sadly, the only assist trophy I feel will be in the second batch of DLC is Waluigi. Nintendo didn't understand that the uproar over his exclusion was more a meme than serious and is going to end up rewarding the fanbass basically harassing Nintendo when his assist trophy was revealed. That has also likely overshadowed all other assist trophies in Nintendo's eyes.

I'm ambivalent about Waluigi, even being a fellow Camelot character. It just irks me that the character is still likely after they harassed Nintendo. Meanwhile, other characters like Isaac (who has been traditionally more requested over past Smash games) will get overlooked again because his fan base had the decency to bow out gracefully after seeing the assist trophy and didn't harass Nintendo.

Just goes to show that even if the character is impossible to get in at the moment, we should never let up telling Nintendo our support. However, I'll admit, I have basically no hope of Isaac ever getting in at this point. I don't see him happening now (for the above reasons) and Golden Sun will be even older next Smash (plus the move towards including more recent and more third party characters) makes me feel that this is the end of the line. Ultimate was really our last big chance but characters like Isaac are just not the direction Sakurai and Nintendo want to take the series anymore.

I'll just hope his assist trophy at least returns again next Smash and take some comfort that at least Isaac still has a large following on boards like these.

No, most Waluigi fan weren't in the harassing team and most of us didn't just bow out gracefully when the AT was shown, most of us (politely) made our voices heard about our discomfort and our hope of they taking into account Isaac as a possible DLC character, we were one of the fanbases that caused Sakurai to tweet in English that characters had already been decided for the fighter pass and that Nintendo had chosen them. Even if Waluigi ends up being promoted that would only be good news for us since it would break the rule.

Well over on the Geno thread we're collecting formal emails and messages to send to SE, Nintendo and Sora LTD campaigning for Geno to return in the future and/or as one of these additional DLC characters. I propose the idea that we could do the same over here for Isaac?

I assume since Sakurai wants to please the fans and go for as long as they can they haven't chosen all the additional DLC characters so why not strike while the iron is hot? We could formally send in emails and requests for Golden Sun to return and for Isaac to be one of these additional DLC characters just to remind them that while we appreciate all the work they put into the game we're not content with Isaac just being an assist.

I dunno it's just an idea it may work it may not. Either way I hope we get Isaac as a playable character!

That's interesting! Where are you planning to send these mails? Or to which accounts? Showing our support can't hurt

 

[DogManStar]

imo the only reason an AT is a hindrance is because it shows that they didn’t think Isaac needed to be playable. They could definitely add him in later though without having to touch the AT. Having multiple roles at once does not matter

 

[TempestSurge]

Well over on the Geno thread we're collecting formal emails and messages to send to SE, Nintendo and Sora LTD campaigning for Geno to return in the future and/or as one of these additional DLC characters. I propose the idea that we could do the same over here for Isaac?

I assume since Sakurai wants to please the fans and go for as long as they can they haven't chosen all the additional DLC characters so why not strike while the iron is hot? We could formally send in emails and requests for Golden Sun to return and for Isaac to be one of these additional DLC characters just to remind them that while we appreciate all the work they put into the game we're not content with Isaac just being an assist.

I dunno it's just an idea it may work it may not. Either way I hope we get Isaac as a playable character!

Back in January we did a letter campaign to Nintendo showing our support and want for Golden Sun to return. Though we haven't done the same for Camelot. And in an age where it seems like all kinds of rpgs are getting complete editions and remastered for the Switch, while Golden Sun continues to be left in the dust, I begin to wonder if there's an issue with Camelot or something. Well regardless it can't hurt to continue to show even more support.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Sadly, the only assist trophy I feel will be in the second batch of DLC is Waluigi. Nintendo didn't understand that the uproar over his exclusion was more a meme than serious and is going to end up rewarding the fanbass basically harassing Nintendo when his assist trophy was revealed. That has also likely overshadowed all other assist trophies in Nintendo's eyes.

I'm ambivalent about Waluigi, even being a fellow Camelot character. It just irks me that the character is still likely after they harassed Nintendo. Meanwhile, other characters like Isaac (who has been traditionally more requested over past Smash games) will get overlooked again because his fan base had the decency to bow out gracefully after seeing the assist trophy and didn't harass Nintendo.

Just goes to show that even if the character is impossible to get in at the moment, we should never let up telling Nintendo our support. However, I'll admit, I have basically no hope of Isaac ever getting in at this point. I don't see him happening now (for the above reasons) and Golden Sun will be even older next Smash (plus the move towards including more recent and more third party characters) makes me feel that this is the end of the line. Ultimate was really our last big chance but characters like Isaac are just not the direction Sakurai and Nintendo want to take the series anymore.

I'll just hope his assist trophy at least returns again next Smash and take some comfort that at least Isaac still has a large following on boards like these.

I think you're the one who didn't understand the reaction to Waluigi.

 

[Deleted member]

That's interesting! Where are you planning to send these mails? Or to which accounts? Showing our support can't hurt

A user on the Geno thread set up an email account with the help of Operation Starfall to write in a ton of emails to Nintendo, Sora LTD and Square Enix either through forwarding it to them or printing them out and mailing it to their USA offices and whatnot.

Back in January we did a letter campaign to Nintendo showing our support and want for Golden Sun to return. Though we haven't done the same for Camelot. And in an age where it seems like all kinds of rpgs are getting complete editions and remastered for the Switch, while Golden Sun continues to be left in the dust, I begin to wonder if there's an issue with Camelot or something. Well regardless it can't hurt to continue to show even more support.

Yeah even if you've done it once it wouldn't hurt to do it again! The bigger the push the more likely they are to respond to it you could send it to Camelot, Nintendo and Sora LTD like we're doing with Square, Nintendo and Sora LTD!

 

[Gioka]

It's a shame that we really have no way of knowing where the DLC will be heading for now. Honestly, I don't expect us to find anything about character 6 until around January/February, and there's every chance that they just continue with this trend of adding third parties, but wouldn't it be magical if we finally got lucky.

I'm allowing myself to hope because honestly, nothing can feel as bad as falling for the Grinch leak and seeing Isaac as an assist - There is nothing worse that can be thrown at us at this point, so I'm not gonna bother talking in chances or debating whether he can happen, because we won't know for a good few months yet, but what I do know is that this character still needs our support.

This series still needs our support. That should be our primary focus right now, keeping momentum up, not losing the momentum we gained last year.

Tbh I think we could get information on this on one of the following moments: announced together with FP DLC 5, when FP DLC 5 gets showcased (most likely February) or they take a break when FP is done and we get DLC 6 or 6 and 7 announced at E3. I think it will be one of the first two

 

[Hydewell]

I need large amounts of proof at this point, but I think there is a small chance based on the idea that Sakurai is going to what the fans have wanted.
Who would we say are the Top 5 1st and 3rd party characters still wanted at this point?
Waluigi, Isaac, Geno, Dixie...who else from Nintendo history? Bandana Dee, maybe? Some more Zelda characters?
For other third parties, Phoenix Wright is a huge one. Sora, Doomslayer, Dante (The slow release of DMC games on the eShop is raising my hopes on this one) and...?

In terms of 3rd parties, there're a bit more, Crash, Geno (it's a 3rd party after all), Rayman, Steve... Ryu Hayabusa is similar to Simon also, being suggested as a good pick as a 3rd party because of his legacy but not having a strong support for him.
Regarding 1st party... Isaac, Waluigi, Dixie, Bandana Dee, Rex, Skull Kid and maybe Elma. Those're often suggested and have a dedicated base. But I'm sure there're a lot of characters like Paper Mario, Captain Toad, an ARMS character, a Zelda champion, etc. they inclusion wouldn't be very critiziced.

But, tbh, the only thing that give me a bit of hope regarding the news there is not a season pass. That means there won't be "experimental" characters like Terry if they want to have benefits in the new DLCs. I really doubt Terry Bogard would sell a lot itself. So the new ones have to be hugely requested, at least (and if not, it has to be very shocking, like Cloud was or being a Sony rep, for example).

Back in January we did a letter campaign to Nintendo showing our support and want for Golden Sun to return. Though we haven't done the same for Camelot. And in an age where it seems like all kinds of rpgs are getting complete editions and remastered for the Switch, while Golden Sun continues to be left in the dust, I begin to wonder if there's an issue with Camelot or something. Well regardless it can't hurt to continue to show even more support.

Nowadays it costs more to do a game than before. JRPGs also cost a lot. Camelot is a small studio and, even if they were as efficient as before (they gave some opinions about that, how other companies were surprised they made those games with that small number of people), now it's barely impossible unless they don't crunch their employees or have a lot of time development.
Allso, IMO, Nintendo doesn't rely on Camelot because their "betrayal" when they chose to work with Capcom when Nintendo and Camelot were in their "golden age".
But, as a personal opinion, I really hope they don't do a collection like a lot of companies do, like the Mana or Grandia. I would support it, but I don't think it would sell that well in comparison to a remake.

 

[Kumashock]

I would rather have Isaac than any 3rd party character. He's actually a character appealing to both Japan and the west, unlike characters from franchises like Doom.

 

[THE 6r]

Quick aside: All those, old and new, to this forum should really check out the Golden Sun Remaster OST, done by 0rangastang a few years back. Still a great listen all these years later

 

[Gioka]

Also, since the link got trapped some pages behind and I see some new faces around here, please don't forget to vote for Isaac in Sabi's/Papagenos'/Scott the Woz's poll https://t.co/w6g3lqyiWf?amp=1