Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[MeatOfJustice]

We're nowhere on this list (the image couldn't load for my reply). This probably doesn't affect us at all, but at least our fellow Waluigi is there.

 

[SkeffVEVO]

We're nowhere on this list (the image couldn't load for my reply). This probably doesn't affect us at all, but at least our fellow Waluigi is there.

https://twitter.com/MrNantendo/status/1170890626650361856 Not to worry my friend as that "poll" means absolutely nothing when it comes to what the fans want.

 

[DogManStar]

Which series is next?

1. ARMS (all it needs to do is not die and it'll get in)
2. Golden Sun (let's hope for that popularity)
3. Astral Chain (since it's apparently tracking for success, could surpass GS)
4. Rhythm Heaven (would be higher but two games after the planned character and still nothing, maybe something's up)

AND THATS IT
(barring Sakurai surprises)

Nintendo has lots of other great, smaller series... but unless things pick up for them, they're gonna remain supporting.

I agree with this list and placement (although I think GS could probably get in before ARMS.) Sadly I don't really see any of the other ones happening. I would like a lot of those characters like Andy and Ray but I don't think they have a character popular enough like Isaac or relevance to give them promotional strength.

 

[Kumashock]

that list is so wrong it has Lloyd almost at the top of the japanese characters... he is not a top 10 character in Tales official popularity polls in Japan https://www.siliconera.com/2017/06/04/tales-festival-2017-character-popularity-poll-results/

 

[StrawHatX]

https://twitter.com/MrNantendo/status/1170890626650361856 Not to worry my friend as that "poll" means absolutely nothing when it comes to what the fans want.

Was it even an actual poll or did someone just count character names on twitter and rank them?

 

[N3ON]

Was it even an actual poll or did someone just count character names on twitter and rank them?

The latter.

And obviously you're working with a pretty small sample size when Agumon and the Heavy can make a top 10.

 

[SonicLink125]

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1170884532343427074
PushDustin checked on this and said that it’s very inaccurate. He also said the Gundam placing is a red flag as he only saw like 2 comments about it.

 

[SPEN18]

I would def say Wars is #4 on that list. It's been more successful than the likes of Custom Robo, Sin & Punishment, & Mysterious Murasame Castle. And it has more history/legacy than all of them except maybe MMC (def more legacy tho).

I originally had Wars higher when I was making that list. It's really close between those, though; 5-8 are all really right on top of each other.

 

[Arsenal234]

If Sakurai does make Isaac playable I think I will have to hop on the "never ask me for anything ever again" train.

 

[StrawHatX]

If Sakurai does make Isaac playable I think I will have to hop on the "never ask me for anything ever again" train.

If we get Isaac and Geno in this next batch of DLC I would be content forever with future Smash content. Even if the next Smash game 10 years later doesn’t have half these characters and Isaac is missing again I’d be fine and happy for what we got.

Of course.... I’m still grateful for the Smash content we have gotten already and I’m loving Banjo (who was my third most wanted) but you get what I mean.

 

[ZelDan]

Hi everyone, I came to say that all the massive support that I saw for Isaac to join Smash over many years inspired me to play the Golden Sun games.
Yesterday I finished The Lost Age, and I beat 1 before that so I transfered my gold password from 1 to TLA, and I beat all the super bosses including Dullahan, and I loved both games a lot.

Even I have a few nitpicks like too much filler dialogue, they were an incredible experience with awesome music that I already added to my phone.
I fully support Isaac for Smash now. Hopefully we can get a Felix alt for him (Because IMO Felix was the true hero of the story).

I don't know if I should start Dark Dawn, I have heard a lot of bad things of that game. But that ending left me curious to know what happened to:

Spoiler

Weyard's terrain changing, Alex's fate and how people will use the Alchemy now.

Do you guys recommend it?

Dark Dawn isn't "bad" by any means. If you enjoyed the previous 2 games' core gameplay, you'll likely get some enjoyment from Dark Dawn.

It definitely is the weakest of the 3 games though. Not to mention that it to this day is still not concluded. If you really want more Golden Sun in your life then by all means go for it, but otherwise it's a game I'd say it's a pretty skippable game.

 

[Ura]

Which series is next?

1. ARMS (all it needs to do is not die and it'll get in)
2. Golden Sun (let's hope for that popularity)
3. Astral Chain (since it's apparently tracking for success, could surpass GS)
4. Rhythm Heaven (would be higher but two games after the planned character and still nothing, maybe something's up)

AND THATS IT
(barring Sakurai surprises)

Nintendo has lots of other great, smaller series... but unless things pick up for them, they're gonna remain supporting.

I disagree personally. I believe Wars has a chance pending a franchise revival that would put it in the same realm as those franchises.

Of course that's an if right there but still a viable one given the legacy and history the franchise has.

 

[StrawHatX]

I disagree personally. I believe Wars has a chance pending a franchise revival that would put it in the same realm as those franchises.

Of course that's an if right there but still a viable one given the legacy and history the franchise has.

With how popular Fire Emblem has gotten in the West the last few years Nintendo really should give the Wars series another go.

I loved playing Advance Wars just as much as the Fire Emblem games on my GBA.

 

[Ura]

With how popular Fire Emblem has gotten in the West the last few years Nintendo really should give the Wars series another go.

I loved playing Advance Wars just as much as the Fire Emblem games on my GBA.

Well I do to lol. It's the reason why i'm going to launch Operation Warzone soon (cheap plug) similar to Operation Sunrise. Stay tuned for that tomorrow.

 

[N3ON]

I disagree personally. I believe Wars has a chance pending a franchise revival that would put it in the same realm as those franchises.

Of course that's an if right there but still a viable one given the legacy and history the franchise has.

Don't brush past the last line, a franchise revival definitely fits under "things picking up for them".

However, that list isn't based on ifs. If Astral Chain proves quite successful I'd put it above GS, but it only makes sense to base things on right now. The hypotheticals are limitless.

 

[Ura]

Don't brush past the last line, a franchise revival definitely fits under "things picking up for them".

However, that list isn't based on ifs. If Astral Chain proves quite successful I'd put it above GS, but it only makes sense to base things on right now. The hypotheticals are limitless.

Well here's hoping.

I do believe Golden Sun is prob the most likely ATM. Even more so than ARMS given it's humongous popularity in a Smash context.

 

[Xenigma]

I'll throw my two cents into the "Which first-party series is next?" discussion. As I think there is a notable difference, I'm going to make two lists:

For Smash Ultimate Year Two DLC
1. Golden Sun - Purely by virtue of Isaac's fanbase.
2. ARMS - Biggest recent success without a rep.
3. Rhythm Heaven - Purely because the Smash speculation scene has pushed this idea for ages.
4. Astral Chain - It feels too soon for this to happen, but it's plausible if Nintendo has been expecting this to be the next big thing.
I don't believe any other series is possible in the immediate future barring Sakurai bias or a currently unrevealed reboot/remake.

Past Ultimate Year Two (New DLC or Game)
1. ARMS - It just seems like an obvious choice, especially if ARMS 2 happens.
2. Astral Chain - Another easy pick, assuming it sells well and becomes an ongoing series.
3. New IP - If it's not one of the prior two, I'm guessing it'll be because a surprise hit like Splatoon happens.
4. Golden Sun - So long as the Isaac fanbase exists, this remains a significant possibility, but sadly I think time doesn't treat his chances well.
Past this point are any number of franchises that I believe are either too dormant and/or have too small a fanbase to be anything more than fringe possibilities. This intentionally includes Rhythm Heaven, which I doubt gains any serious traction in the foreseeable future due to its unusual nature.

Not to say there aren't some other series I wouldn't like to see included (Wars? Custom Robo? Saki from S&P? Yes please!), but I think those are the "realistic" lists at this time. My biggest question is how much Nintendo and/or Sakurai values ARMS, because it's easy to see that getting the nod over Isaac if they want to push that series in the short term. Otherwise, Isaac seems like the clear winner among first-party franchises without a rep in 2020.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I feel like it's too soon for Astral Chain as well. When both Splatoon and Arms had to wait I don't see it being different for Astral Chain.

At this stage I think the most likely assist trophy promotions are Waluigi, Isaac and Spring Man. (Shovel Knight has an outside chance)

I feel like Bomberman might struggle due to not being as highly demanded as he used to be.

 

[Tetiro]

I feel like it's too soon for Astral Chain as well. When both Splatoon and Arms had to wait I don't see it being different for Astral Chain.

At this stage I think the most likely assist trophy promotions are Waluigi, Isaac and Spring Man. (Shovel Knight has an outside chance)

I feel like Bomberman might struggle due to not being as highly demanded as he used to be.

I agree, there are not many Assist Promotions that actually make sense. Though the ones that do are really demanded so one day they will get in.

I find it good to be realistic when speculating. As at the end of the day they still need to make Movesets for them

 

[Kalaam]

About that Pandora box argument against AT promotion ?
Isn't the box already opened anyway ? People have been requesting the stupidest things like Goku or superman for ages, promoting an AT won't change that.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Personally I feel like speculation will become healthier if we get an assist trophy promoted. Then everyone can be free to support whoever they want without people saying it's impossible.

I really prefer speculation when you don't have to argue that your character even has a chance to begin with.

 

[roydgriffin]

Quick aside: All those, old and new, to this forum should really check out the Golden Sun Remaster OST, done by 0rangastang a few years back. Still a great listen all these years later

I gotta admit, one of the main reasons I want Isaac in smash is to get more official music remasters from golden sun! Such a good soundtrack, and there is barely anything beyond the original gba sounds.

 

[Tetiro]

I gotta admit, one of the main reasons I want Isaac in smash is to get more official music remasters from golden sun! Such a good soundtrack, and there is barely anything beyond the original gba sounds.

They do make for fantastic remasters/remixes and would be great

 

[DogManStar]

I gotta admit, one of the main reasons I want Isaac in smash is to get more official music remasters from golden sun! Such a good soundtrack, and there is barely anything beyond the original gba sounds.

I don’t like the GBA sound much, but a lot of the music from its games is really good, and Golden Sun is one of the best. I need those remixes in my life. Venus Lighthouse, Saturos theme, the final boss themes, Walking Forward with Determination, and of course, the Isaac theme...

 

[SonicLink125]

I don’t like the GBA sound much, but a lot of the music from its games is really good, and Golden Sun is one of the best. I need those remixes in my life. Venus Lighthouse, Saturos theme, the final boss themes, Walking Forward with Determination, and of course, the Isaac theme...

Motor Sakuraba was a genius when making the music for Golden Sun! He made the music sound so good despite the limitations of the GBA speaker. Golden Sun to this day has the best sound/music in the GBA library.

 

[3DSNinja]

*cough* Mega Man Zero 1-3 *cough*

 

[Pinguino21v]

I would def say Wars is #4 on that list. It's been more successful than the likes of Custom Robo, Sin & Punishment, & Mysterious Murasame Castle. And it has more history/legacy than all of them except maybe MMC (def more legacy tho).

Wars has the flaw to be unsuccessful in Japan. It has unfortunately a lower chance than several other lesser series. That's why I think it has zero chance to become a fighter.

 

[Ura]

Wars has the flaw to be unsuccessful in Japan. It has unfortunately a lower chance than several other lesser series. That's why I think it has zero chance to become a fighter.

Wars saw a lot of bad luck there but those were mostly due to external circumstances more than anything else. If a new game were released, I have no doubt it would be very successful there.

Wars also has the legacy and history not a lot of series have so it gives it an edge over a lot of them and could be justified with a DLC Fighter.

 

[Xenigma]

Wars saw a lot of bad luck there but those were mostly due to external circumstances more than anything else. If a new game were released, I have no doubt it would be very successful there.

Wars also has the legacy and history not a lot of series have so it gives it an edge over a lot of them and could be justified with a DLC Fighter.

I generally agree, but it seems clear that Intelligent Systems is sticking to Fire Emblem given its success and the resulting name recognition. Ideally IS would step back from FE briefly in favor of a Wars reboot, especially now that spin-offs like Heroes and Warriors are around to appease fans in the meantime, but I can't blame them for iterating on a franchise that has been doing very well for them.

For Smash purposes, I just don't think there is enough of a vocal fanbase to justify Wars DLC. Really, the only reason I think Golden Sun has a chance is because Isaac has been so heavily demanded for so long, while Andy in particular just hasn't gotten the same sort of support. That could change in time, of course, but I feel like Wars needs a new release to reinvigorate the fanbase, which in turn could lead to that coveted Smash rep.

 

[Ura]

I generally agree, but it seems clear that Intelligent Systems is sticking to Fire Emblem given its success and the resulting name recognition. Ideally IS would step back from FE briefly in favor of a Wars reboot, especially now that spin-offs like Heroes and Warriors are around to appease fans in the meantime, but I can't blame them for iterating on a franchise that has been doing very well for them.

For Smash purposes, I just don't think there is enough of a vocal fanbase to justify Wars DLC. Really, the only reason I think Golden Sun has a chance is because Isaac has been so heavily demanded for so long, while Andy in particular just hasn't gotten the same sort of support. That could change in time, of course, but I feel like Wars needs a new release to reinvigorate the fanbase, which in turn could lead to that coveted Smash rep.

Well the last release was in 2008. A time when neither AW or FE were doing particularly well. And for that matter, Golden Sun as well with DD. Low sales for a game that's a decade old+ is a pretty weak argument when a spiritual successor released this year does really well.

Andy fans do need to be more vocal I agree. And that's my goal with Operation Warzone. coming soon to a theater near you

 

[BoreasTheSnowConeMachine]

For some reason it's not letting me upload images but I took a look at fan-made poll during the smash ballots and Isaac was right after King K Rool who was #1. Behind Isaac was Banjo, Wolf, Snake, and Inkling who are all already in the game. This fan poll had over 45,000 votes compared to that one being passed on twitter which probably wasn't passed around much.

There's no denying Isaac has popularity that comes in surges when it becomes possible for him to join smash i.e smash ballot and grinch leak. But nintendo doesn't always pick based on popularity when it comes to smash characters.

 

[Xenigma]

Well the last release was in 2008. A time when neither AW or FE were doing particularly well. And for that matter, Golden Sun as well with DD. Low sales for a game that's a decade old+ is a pretty weak argument when a spiritual successor released this year does really well.

Andy fans do need to be more vocal I agree. And that's my goal with Operation Warzone. coming soon to a theater near you

Wargroove is fantastic, but a spiritual successor to Wars still isn't Wars. Maybe Nintendo can connect the dots, but I admittedly don't have that much faith in them, especially knowing how many quality franchises they've left on the table (Wars, F-Zero, Golden Sun, etc). As for Operation Warzone, good luck, because I'd love to see Andy and/or a new Wars game happen!

 

[Ura]

Wargroove is fantastic, but a spiritual successor to Wars still isn't Wars. Maybe Nintendo can connect the dots, but I admittedly don't have that much faith in them, especially knowing how many quality franchises they've left on the table (Wars, F-Zero, Golden Sun, etc). As for Operation Warzone, good luck, because I'd love to see Andy and/or a new Wars game happen!

I mean it shows a game in the vein of Advance Wars can succeed in today's market. The game is almost literally Advance Wars GBA in the year 2019 and people loved that. It's worth enough for IntSys to give this franchise another look.

Stay tuned tomorrow for the official announcement!

 

[Organization XIII]

that list is so wrong it has Lloyd almost at the top of the japanese characters... he is not a top 10 character in Tales official popularity polls in Japan https://www.siliconera.com/2017/06/04/tales-festival-2017-character-popularity-poll-results/

While that's true you are failing to consider Llyod is the poster boy for Tales in Smash. Especially after Smash 4 where Sakurai himself pretty much said if we get a Tales character it's Llyod when he gave us the Mii costume. Still the results seem suspect for other reasons.

 

[Tetiro]

I mean it shows a game in the vein of Advance Wars can succeed in today's market. The game is almost literally Advance Wars GBA in the year 2019 and people loved that. It's worth enough for IntSys to give this franchise another look.

Stay tuned tomorrow for the official announcement!

Any game can succeed in today's market

It just needs to be marketed well *glares at 2010 Nintendo regarding Dark Dawn*

 

[Ura]

Any game can succeed in today's market

It just needs to be marketed well *glares at 2010 Nintendo regarding Dark Dawn*

Tis' a shame. I honestly believe Camelot should have held off DD until 2011/2012. Games released in that timeframe sold like hotcakes and DD would have been a beneficiary.

They could have also used that time to improve upon the game so it would have got better reception.

 

[Kalaam]

Sadly history is what it is. We cannot change it, but we can hope Nintendo learned from it.

 

[Gioka]

A lot of things were done wrong with DD, like the fact that it released on a dying console, together with the lack of marketing it got well, is not surprising it didn't sell as well as its predecessors. However we can only hope that Nintendo learn what they did wrong, hopefully the can give us another chance to prove how much we still love the games with the Switch that seems to be heavily relying on RPGs

 

[StrawHatX]

A lot of things were done wrong with DD, like the fact that it released on a dying console, together with the lack of marketing it got well, is not surprising it didn't sell as well as its predecessors. However we can only hope that Nintendo learn what they did wrong, hopefully the can give us another chance to prove how much we still love the games with the Switch that seems to be heavily relying on RPGs

Yep. Released on the DS just a few months before the release of the 3DS and games like Ocarina of Time that were coming out for it.

DD was doomed from the start.

 

[Hydewell]

Well, the thing with Advance Wars is that the interviewers have recently asked for a new entry to their creators. Even if that's not that big, at least they know there're a bit of demand. Besides, considering that FE:H were done by a few people from IS (IRC, only 15 people were credited when they have 100 or more employees), and key people who are missing in the credits also participated in AW, a new entry is definitely a possibility.
I wish there were interviews from the west with the Takahashi brothers when MTA was launched. I'd have loved some questions regarding the future of Golden Sun. I was really surprised when they commented about the Sol Sanctum temple in that japanese interview.