Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Bassoonist]

Tbh I think we could get information on this on one of the following moments: announced together with FP DLC 5, when FP DLC 5 gets showcased (most likely February) or they take a break when FP is done and we get DLC 6 or 6 and 7 announced at E3. I think it will be one of the first two

The fact that they revealed more fighters would come out after the Fighter's Pass now instead of with the announcement of the final Fighter's Pass character leads me to believe that they may do another tease with the announcement of the final Fighter's Pass character. Although, one would think they would want to only focus on the Fighter's Pass character when doing the first reveal of them. So, yeah, I don't really know what's going to happen.

I would think we would know the identity of the first character of the post-Fighter's Pass characters before E3, though. At least like they did that teaser Joker video before really showing him.

Last year was rough because Nintendo gave us a Direct in September, but then was completely silent until February. I hope they'll even out presentations better this time. (although the Joker teaser didn't come from a Direct, so we could easily see the first post-Fighter's Pass character in the same kind of event no matter what happens).

 

[Dukemon102]

Hi everyone, I came to say that all the massive support that I saw for Isaac to join Smash over many years inspired me to play the Golden Sun games.
Yesterday I finished The Lost Age, and I beat 1 before that so I transfered my gold password from 1 to TLA, and I beat all the super bosses including Dullahan, and I loved both games a lot.

Even I have a few nitpicks like too much filler dialogue, they were an incredible experience with awesome music that I already added to my phone.
I fully support Isaac for Smash now. Hopefully we can get a Felix alt for him (Because IMO Felix was the true hero of the story).

I don't know if I should start Dark Dawn, I have heard a lot of bad things of that game. But that ending left me curious to know what happened to:

Spoiler

Weyard's terrain changing, Alex's fate and how people will use the Alchemy now.

Do you guys recommend it?

 

[DogManStar]

Remember when people were speculating that Felix was happening too? I miss those days. Maybe he’ll still be a surprise alt or something lmao

 

[Kalaam]

Hi everyone, I came to say that all the massive support that I saw for Isaac to join Smash over many years inspired me to play the Golden Sun games.
Yesterday I finished The Lost Age, and I beat 1 before that so I transfered my gold password from 1 to TLA, and I beat all the super bosses including Dullahan, and I loved both games a lot.

Even I have a few nitpicks like too much filler dialogue, they were an incredible experience with awesome music that I already added to my phone.
I fully support Isaac for Smash now. Hopefully we can get a Felix alt for him (Because IMO Felix was the true hero of the story).

I don't know if I should start Dark Dawn, I have heard a lot of bad things of that game. But that ending left with curious to know what happened to:

Spoiler

Weyard's terrain changing, Alex's fate and how people will use the Alchemy now.

Do you guys recommend it?

Yes, play it. The flak the game gets is exagerated. It has flaws, indeed. Mainly being a tad too easy especially if you get all djinns, point of no return are bad and dialogues tend to linger for way too long, but other than that the game is excellent.

 

[Billybae10K]

Hi everyone, I came to say that all the massive support that I saw for Isaac to join Smash over many years inspired me to play the Golden Sun games.
Yesterday I finished The Lost Age, and I beat 1 before that so I transfered my gold password from 1 to TLA, and I beat all the super bosses including Dullahan, and I loved both games a lot.

Even I have a few nitpicks like too much filler dialogue, they were an incredible experience with awesome music that I already added to my phone.
I fully support Isaac for Smash now. Hopefully we can get a Felix alt for him (Because IMO Felix was the true hero of the story).

I don't know if I should start Dark Dawn, I have heard a lot of bad things of that game. But that ending left with curious to know what happened to:

Spoiler

Weyard's terrain changing, Alex's fate and how people will use the Alchemy now.

Do you guys recommend it?

Dark Dawn isn't as bad as people make it out to me. It has it's rough patches and of the three games, it is the weakest. But that's not to say it was bad - It still has the fun battle system, it has awesome djinn designs, the end game's pretty fun. The big issue is just the point of no return moments. I'd honestly look those up so you don't end up missing anything.

And be aware that the game does end on a bit of a cliffhanger, so if you do play it through to completion, prepare to suffer like the rest of us.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Really confused right now how everyone still thinks AT's are a death sentence over in the Newcomer Speculation thread even though I am pretty sure people said they deconfirm because of when the fighter pass was finalised. So why does this still matter again? I am really thinking Waluigi and Isaac have a shot here.

 

[DogManStar]

Really confused right now how everyone still thinks AT's are a death sentence over in the Newcomer Speculation thread even though I am pretty sure people said they deconfirm because of when the fighter pass was finalised. So why does this still matter again? I am really thinking Waluigi and Isaac have a shot here.

I don’t see how it matters any more than Chrom being a final smash, and he wasn’t as demanded as either of those characters... If it’s about making fans happy I don’t see why he wouldn’t be willing to do the same thing again. idk maybe it’s just me but I think there’s something funny about using a final smash to beat up the same character or an AT to fight against the same character. It’s like the mii costumes of characters already in the game

 

[Dukemon102]

Yes, play it. The flak the game gets is exagerated. It has flaws, indeed. Mainly being a tad too easy especially if you get all djinns, point of no return are bad and dialogues tend to linger for way too long, but other than that the game is excellent.

Oh boy. Points of no return. Does it give you warnings or I will have to look up a guide (Which I hate) to not accidentally miss a Djinn? (Specially the Djinns on the wild. I hate those) I'm usually a completionist so that is a really bad news.

 

[Kalaam]

Oh boy. Points of no return. Does it give you warnings or I will have to look up a guide (Which I hate) to not accidentally miss a Djinn? (Specially the Djinns on the wild. I hate those) I'm usually a completionist so that is a really bad news.

The game doesn't really warn you. You can tell it's coming sometimes because it's during *big* plot points. But i'd recommend looking up a guide. At least know how many djinns you're supposed to have right before those points, so you can still look for them yourself.

 

[SonicLink125]

I don’t see how it matters any more than Chrom being a final smash, and he wasn’t as demanded as either of those characters... If it’s about making fans happy I don’t see why he wouldn’t be willing to do the same thing again. idk maybe it’s just me but I think there’s something funny about using a final smash to beat up the same character or an AT to fight against the same character. It’s like the mii costumes of characters already in the game

Which is why I would find it fun and hilarious to play as Isaac summoning AT Isaac while teaming up with Mii Isaac. Fun paradox there!

 

[pupNapoleon]

If Sakurai want to expand the world of Smash, in the first parties, only Isaac is from a serie with no fighters. If we have 5 new first parties characters as DLC, I feel he is a lock. We just have to believe future DLC won't be only third parties.

Time for a game! Imagine Billy Porter coming out with amazing music and fun-

WHICH FIRST PARTY SERIES IS NEXT?

1- ARMS
2- Rhythm Heaven
3- Golden Sun
4- Balloon Fighter
5- Excite Bike


6- Chibi Robo
7- Starfy
8- Panel de Pon
9- Custom Robo
10- 'Wars


11- Doshin the Giant
12- Mysterious Murasame Castle
13- Style Saavy
14- Pilotwings
15- Brain Age

 

[Dukemon102]

Ok. I ordered a Dawk Dawn copy. Hopefully it arrives soon. I'm glad to know DD is not the Other M / Sticker Star of the franchise.

I know it ends in a cliffhanger but I'm already fan of a manga that certain Dragon Quest fan writes. So that kind of suffering is not new to me (Even if it still hurts).

 

[Kalaam]

I think a lot of the hate DD gets is because it doesn't have a sequel to correct its flaws. So with time, the angst of wait gets redirected to the game's flaws.

 

[NessAtc.]

Time for a game! Imagine Billy Porter coming out with amazing music and fun-

WHICH FIRST PARTY SERIES IS NEXT?

1- ARMS
2- Rhythm Heaven
3- Golden Sun
4- Balloon Fighter
5- Excite Bike


6- Chibi Robo
7- Starfy
8- Panel de Pon
9- Custom Robo
10- 'Wars


11- Doshin the Giant
12- Mysterious Murasame Castle
13- Style Saavy
14- Pilotwings
15- Brain Age

Firstly, you missed Sin and Punishment. That should be before Custom Robo tbh

Second, we can't quantify which one is next, since we don't know. The best we have to quantify it is the smash ballot, which, as we know, Isaac is one of the leading factors of

 

[Dabi Strife]

I don’t see how it matters any more than Chrom being a final smash, and he wasn’t as demanded as either of those characters... If it’s about making fans happy I don’t see why he wouldn’t be willing to do the same thing again. idk maybe it’s just me but I think there’s something funny about using a final smash to beat up the same character or an AT to fight against the same character. It’s like the mii costumes of characters already in the game

Because Chrom is an echo and NOT an AT. Less resources to use to make him playable compared to Isaac where he would be a unique character. Sure you can use the AT model but it’s way too low-poly compared to the character models. Another thing to note is that Chrom was most likely a last minute addition to the roster. This would’ve been a different story if Chrom wasn’t an echo.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Really confused right now how everyone still thinks AT's are a death sentence over in the Newcomer Speculation thread even though I am pretty sure people said they deconfirm because of when the fighter pass was finalised. So why does this still matter again? I am really thinking Waluigi and Isaac have a shot here.

Because they think hype can only come from a character being third-party, and don't think the public would love to see that their favorite character still has a chance if any kind of NPC gets promoted.

 

[Dukemon102]

For the Assist Trophy problem I see 3 solutions:

1.- Alucard / Moon / Any other duplicated AT treatment: Where the Isaac's AT is completely absent when the playable character is in a fight.

2.- Alfonso treatment: Replace the model with Garet, Felix, Mathew or whoever else that can do the Move psynergy.

3 .- Final Smash Chrom solution: Just ignore it and let it happen. Who cares? It's Smash Bros. LOL we can have 8 Chroms fighting at the same time.

If Isaac ever becomes a fighter, I really want them to get a new voice for him. I really dislike the voice of the Assist Trophy. It sounds so annoying, and after playing The Lost Age (Where Isaac's personality caught me off guard) it doesn't really fit him either.

 

[N3ON]

I think a lot of the hate DD gets is because it doesn't have a sequel to correct its flaws. So with time, the angst of wait gets redirected to the game's flaws.

I think DD gets hate because it's an average game. On the internet, "average" doesn't exist. Good become great becomes amazing, and average becomes bad becomes terrible. Everything just gets pushed to extremes.

 

[SPEN18]

Second, we can't quantify which one is next, since we don't know. The best we have to quantify it is the smash ballot, which, as we know, Isaac is one of the leading factors of

I think it was meant more as a game to guess which would be prioritized more, in which case I would put (only felt like doing the top 10):

Golden Sun
Rhythm Heaven
Custom Robo
ARMS
Mysterious Murasame Castle
Sin & Punishment
Chibi-Robo
Wars
Excitebike
Mach Rider

I'm much lower on ARMS than most. Rhythm Heaven's chances have declined the last few years so I think GS has passed it. Custom Robo may have done okay on the Ballot in Japan according to some polls. Takamaru, Saki, and Chibi-Robo have already got one foot in the door as Assists and/or Mii costumes (they also have much more obvious choices for movesets than some others like the bikers and Starfy).

 

[NessAtc.]

I think it was meant more as a game to guess which would be prioritized more, in which case I would put (only felt like doing the top 10):

Golden Sun
Rhythm Heaven
Custom Robo
ARMS
Mysterious Murasame Castle
Sin & Punishment
Chibi-Robo
Wars
Excitebike
Mach Rider

I'm much lower on ARMS than most. Rhythm Heaven's chances have declined the last few years so I think GS has passed it. Custom Robo may have done okay on the Ballot in Japan according to some polls. Takamaru, Saki, and Chibi-Robo have already got one foot in the door as Assists and/or Mii costumes (they also have much more obvious choices for movesets than some others like the bikers and Starfy).

oh I see

Golden Sun
Mysterious Murasame Castle
Sin & Punishment
Rhythm Heaven
ARMS
Chibi-Robo
Wars
Mach Rider
Custom Robo
Excitebike

The reason I put S&P above RH and ARMS is because of the fact that Kid Icarus Uprising is very much based off of it, and the fact that Sakurai decided to single out Saki among a host of assist trophies, and is described by Sakurai as also being "cool" in Brawl. Whether that remains relevant to him remains to be seen

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

We are going to have one more Golden Sunday for the year, lets spread the word as far as we can to make it as big as we possibly can. Also I'm really hoping the new Smash hype can give us a much needed boost

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[Ura]

We are going to have one more Golden Sunday for the year, lets spread the word as far as we can to make it as big as we possibly can. Also I'm really hoping the new Smash hype can give us a much needed boost

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Sweet! I plan on partaking in this Golden Sunday. I'm glad to see this movement has been making strides to getting this franchise back.

I know this happened before Operation Sunrise but the Sol Sanctum cameo in Mario Tennis Aces was a nice nod to the series. Shows that Camelot is still thinking about the series.

 

[Dabi Strife]

Because they think hype can only come from a character being third-party, and don't think the public would love to see that their favorite character still has a chance if any kind of NPC gets promoted.

Yeah, it’s kind of annoying for people try to tell me that doing a pass like Joker-Hero-Banjo-Terry-? To Isaac/Waluigi/Geno is so underwhelming because they’re not impactful. First off Smash is a NINTENDO game and there’s still first party characters that can still retain the same amount of hype like Isaac/Waluigi, who’ve been requested for so long (Geno may be 3rd party but he’s heavily affiliated with Mario but the same applies to him). Again, while Smash is now about the video game history in general, it’s always been a NINTENDO game first and foremost. Don’t see why some of the 1st parties won’t be hype just because they’re not these super impactful characters that start a genre and all that.

 

[Dukemon102]

What fighter pass character got the strongest and most positive reception?
Banjo and Kazooie of course.

What are Banjo-Kazooie for most people?
A third party or long lost 1st party characters? I would strongly argue that they are in the second case. And Isaac probably is in that place too.
I have no doubt people will get happy with his return because the Smash Fandom is mostly Nintendo fans and they are strongly attached to Nintendo characters first and most.

Then there's the anti-anime swordman crowd... sigh

 

[NessAtc.]

On the same effect, if the DLCs are all third parties, it significantly begins to lessen the impact of each one

 

[Ura]

I think it was meant more as a game to guess which would be prioritized more, in which case I would put (only felt like doing the top 10):

Golden Sun
Rhythm Heaven
Custom Robo
ARMS
Mysterious Murasame Castle
Sin & Punishment
Chibi-Robo
Wars
Excitebike
Mach Rider

I'm much lower on ARMS than most. Rhythm Heaven's chances have declined the last few years so I think GS has passed it. Custom Robo may have done okay on the Ballot in Japan according to some polls. Takamaru, Saki, and Chibi-Robo have already got one foot in the door as Assists and/or Mii costumes (they also have much more obvious choices for movesets than some others like the bikers and Starfy).

I would def say Wars is #4 on that list. It's been more successful than the likes of Custom Robo, Sin & Punishment, & Mysterious Murasame Castle. And it has more history/legacy than all of them except maybe MMC (def more legacy tho).

I would rank them like this...

Golden Sun
ARMS
Rhythm Heaven
Wars
Mysterious Murasame Castle
Chibi-Robo
Custom Robo
Panel de Pon
Sin & Punishment
Mach Rider
Excitebike

 

[SonicLink125]

So, something came to mind. When people say that they can’t use Isaac’s AT model because it’s too low poly, then why not use his Mii Costume? Last I heard, Mii Swordfighter was used as a basis to make either Joker or Hero. They could do the same for Isaac.

 

[KoopaSaki]

The only other detractor I see going on with the naysayers is that if Isaac or waluigi actually get the AT promotion (I think they will btw given the high demand) that would open Pandora’s box for the other AT fans like the Ashley and shovel knight lovers fighting over their character getting the promotion as well. I hope this doesn’t detract Sakurai from considering this, but maybe it’s a good point?

 

[NessAtc.]

The only other detractor I see going on with the naysayers is that if Isaac or waluigi actually get the AT promotion (I think they will btw given the high demand) that would open Pandora’s box for the other AT fans like the Ashley and shovel knight lovers fighting over their character getting the promotion as well. I hope this doesn’t detract Sakurai from considering this, but maybe it’s a good point?

That pandora's box will be opened next game either way, so it's irrelevant

besides, we don't have a definitive end date for DLC. It's actually possible for them to do a good chunk of assist trophy promotions that are hotly demanded

 

[DogManStar]

So, something came to mind. When people say that they can’t use Isaac’s AT model because it’s too low poly, then why not use his Mii Costume? Last I heard, Mii Swordfighter was used as a basis to make either Joker or Hero. They could do the same for Isaac.

Didn't the Nibroc model use the Mii Costume textures since they were higher quality apparently? Could they do that with the AT model maybe?

The only other detractor I see going on with the naysayers is that if Isaac or waluigi actually get the AT promotion (I think they will btw given the high demand) that would open Pandora’s box for the other AT fans like the Ashley and shovel knight lovers fighting over their character getting the promotion as well. I hope this doesn’t detract Sakurai from considering this, but maybe it’s a good point?

I don't see why Sakurai would mind that. Also I think us and Waluigi still pushing for our characters in spite of an AT shows that we are more popular so he would probably take that into account.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Time for a game! Imagine Billy Porter coming out with amazing music and fun-

WHICH FIRST PARTY SERIES IS NEXT?

1- ARMS
2- Rhythm Heaven
3- Golden Sun
4- Balloon Fighter
5- Excite Bike


6- Chibi Robo
7- Starfy
8- Panel de Pon
9- Custom Robo
10- 'Wars


11- Doshin the Giant
12- Mysterious Murasame Castle
13- Style Saavy
14- Pilotwings
15- Brain Age

This is fun! I like this. I'm going with

1. Golden Sun
2. ARMS
3. Rhythm Heaven
4. Wars
5. The Mysterious Murasame Castle
6. Style Savvy
7. Panel de Pon
8. Balloon Fight
9. Custom Robo
10. Starfy
11. Chibi-Robo
12. Excitebike
13. Brain Age
14. Pilotwings
15. Doshin the Giant

I think right now for AT promotions, Isaac has the upper hand because of the massive backlash. If there was an ARMS 2 I think that would tie them or make ARMS the winner.

Wars and The Mysterious Murasame Castle are up there because I think they're likeliest to get rebooted (Wars because of Fire Emblem's recent success, Murasame because of comments by both Hideki Kamiya and Goichi Suda). I'd put Famicom Detective Club around here too - the reboot is confirmed but unlike those franchises this one needs to come to the West.

After that is Style Savvy, which could always be the next Wii Fit Trainer.

Then come the retros (above them I would have Saki, because he's also very rebootable and apparently very popular). Out of these Lip has the strongest support, and Puyo Puyo coming to SNES Online could mean Panel de Pon coming West too. After her comes Balloon Fighter who has decent support (would also have Mach Rider here due to Grinch popularity).

Then come Custom Robo and Starfy. They're series that aren't dead dead but not exactly thriving. I think StarTropics is around here - could be rebooted but not being released in Japan is a huge blow imo.

Chibi-Robo is low because sadly he's confirmed dead.

Excitebike and Brain Age have potential moveset issues, Pilotwings has that plus a lack of characters plus lack of presence in Japan, and finally Doshin is happy to be here.

 

[StrawHatX]

The only other detractor I see going on with the naysayers is that if Isaac or waluigi actually get the AT promotion (I think they will btw given the high demand) that would open Pandora’s box for the other AT fans like the Ashley and shovel knight lovers fighting over their character getting the promotion as well. I hope this doesn’t detract Sakurai from considering this, but maybe it’s a good point?

I don’t really see why that matters. People get upset when their characters don’t get in and others do regardless.

I know they weren’t promoted in the same game, but clearly Sakurai didn’t care about upgrading Dark Samus and Little Mac from AT status to fighters when there are so many other AT’s that didn’t get the same treatment.

I think he’ll look at fan demand and then decide if he thinks they’d work as a playable character and/or if he feels like that series should get represented or get more reps regardless if they’re an AT or a spirit.

 

[N3ON]

Which series is next?

1. ARMS (all it needs to do is not die and it'll get in)
2. Golden Sun (let's hope for that popularity)
3. Astral Chain (since it's apparently tracking for success, could surpass GS)
4. Rhythm Heaven (would be higher but two games after the planned character and still nothing, maybe something's up)

AND THATS IT
(barring Sakurai surprises)

Nintendo has lots of other great, smaller series... but unless things pick up for them, they're gonna remain supporting.

 

[Gioka]

The only other detractor I see going on with the naysayers is that if Isaac or waluigi actually get the AT promotion (I think they will btw given the high demand) that would open Pandora’s box for the other AT fans like the Ashley and shovel knight lovers fighting over their character getting the promotion as well. I hope this doesn’t detract Sakurai from considering this, but maybe it’s a good point?

I mean, at this point opening that Pandora's box is not necessarily a bad thing, if the extra DLC and "pleasing the fans" reactions are anything to go by, it is actually positive for Smash that characters are, or at least seem to be, getting a second chance because that makes speculation spark a new, that means daily discussions about Smash, means people that lost interest one way or another are coming back on board and generally creates space for more fan content created for Smash, which ultimately is great for Sakurai and team because free and constant advertising, basically.

 

[Billybae10K]

Which series is next?

1. ARMS (all it needs to do is not die and it'll get in)
2. Golden Sun (let's hope for that popularity)
3. Astral Chain (since it's apparently tracking for success, could surpass GS)
4. Rhythm Heaven (would be higher but two games after the planned character and still nothing, maybe something's up)

AND THATS IT
(barring Sakurai surprises)

Nintendo has lots of other great, smaller series... but unless things pick up for them, they're gonna remain supporting.

This.

I do see people listing all these obscure or small series from Nintendo and I'm like... "Do y'all really think BRAIN AGE of all things is getting into Smash?" Realistically, a majority of the series people like to list as not being repped in smash tend to... well, not be repped for a reason, let's just say that.

 

[Gioka]

This.

I do see people listing all these obscure or small series from Nintendo and I'm like... "Do y'all really think BRAIN AGE of all things is getting into Smash?" Realistically, a majority of the series people like to list as not being repped in smash tend to... well, not be repped for a reason, let's just say that.

Let's hope not us. Because well, it could also be said about Golden Sun, that it doesn't have a playable character for a reason (maybe its dormant state as we have previously pointed out) but hopefully fan demand is enough to get us out of that list

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Then there's the anti-anime swordman crowd... sigh

As I always say, Isaac could always use an axe instead. What weapon he uses has never been as important as his Psynergy, even in his AT.

Then come Custom Robo and Starfy. They're series that aren't dead dead but not exactly thriving. I think StarTropics is around here - could be rebooted but not being released in Japan is a huge blow imo.

Chibi-Robo is low because sadly he's confirmed dead.

Shouldn't Custom Robo be lower than Chibi-Robo? Nintendo didn't renew the former's copyright ownership.

 

[THE 6r]

Let's hope not us. Because well, it could also be said about Golden Sun, that it doesn't have a playable character for a reason (maybe its dormant state as we have previously pointed out) but hopefully fan demand is enough to get us out of that list

This

Though I do think that Golden Sun is more notable then most Nintendo series not rep by a playable character

 

[N3ON]

Let's hope not us. Because well, it could also be said about Golden Sun, that it doesn't have a playable character for a reason (maybe its dormant state as we have previously pointed out) but hopefully fan demand is enough to get us out of that list

There's a reason why Golden Sun doesn't have representation, but there's also a reason it'd still be on the (short) list of plausible series additions. If a character from any of those unlisted series had the same amount of popularity as Isaac, they'd be on the list too.

 

[SkeffVEVO]

As I always say, Isaac could always use an axe instead. What weapon he uses has never been as important as his Psynergy, even in his AT.



Shouldn't Custom Robo be lower than Chibi-Robo? Nintendo didn't renew the former's copyright ownership.

Nintendo did renew Custom Robo's copyright ownership, they just didn't renew the trademark of the first game (For some reason). This misinformation lead Custom Robo fans on a path of disarray until everything was cleared up and when Ray Mk III got confirmed to be a costume.