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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

Gioka

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There was an initiative of drawing all the characters, like the fire emblem community, but Idk if it materialized or not.
It hasn't, yet. Maybe now that more people have returned/sparked with hope and interest.
But you are right that we have done a lot of things in this past year.

I just assumed they scored high in the ballot.
It is hard to tell, I think the ballot on itself isn't enough reference because of how much we ignore about it and the results (since every exit poll seems to point that Isaac also did very well and here we are still)
 

Kalaam

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Hm btw, had you seen that last year ?

It was from December, and it may be nothing, but still... that's interresting.
 

SkeffVEVO

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Hm btw, had you seen that last year ?

It was from December, and it may be nothing, but still... that's interresting.
Speaking of that, the same thing happened to a Waluigi's Pinball remix, a Forest Maze remix, and a Megalovania remix. Hmmmmmm...
 

Qeomash

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If they prioritize fan demanded characters, I figure we're getting:
  • Isaac
  • Geno
  • Waluigi
 

Gioka

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Hm btw, had you seen that last year ?

It was from December, and it may be nothing, but still... that's interresting.
Speaking of that, the same thing happened to a Waluigi's Pinball remix, a Forest Maze remix, and a Megalovania remix. Hmmmmmm...
It could be Nintendo going for everything slightly related or it could be a hint, it is hard to tell right now. It is an odd coincidence with Megalovania though and the BK on December when all fighter pass characters were decided
 
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Nazyrus

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If they prioritize fan demanded characters, I figure we're getting:
  • Isaac
  • Geno
  • Waluigi
Pretty much, those are the K rool Ridley and Banjo level of high demand characters next in queue, at least the first two definitely are. If the "oportunities to satisfy fans" words from Sakurai are not misused, those should definitely come now, otherwise they just digged their own grave by giving everyone hope by being specific towards fans' wishes and not their own (nintendo and sakurai) picks.
 

MeatOfJustice

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If they upgrade spirits Rex & Co. should be a lock, but I wouldn't expect Geno unless Nintendo magically bought the rights to SMRPG because I suspect Square Enix doesn't see him being as profitable as someone from their own franchises, even with fan demand.
 

FlintIke

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The DLC looks really amazing at this point and I am very happy that they finally announced more DLC fighters since I expected that when the Fighters Pass was announced.

I really hope they will make 2-3 exceptions to ATs and finally give us Isaac. I am rly happy with most of the DLC Fighters at this point. But Isaac will always be that empty spot in my heart until I can finally play him in Smash. Please Sakurai do your magic and finally include him :(
 

Sabrewulf238

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Hm btw, had you seen that last year ?

It was from December, and it may be nothing, but still... that's interresting.
I saw someone talking about this in the Geno thread. Apparently some SMRPG songs were taken down too?

It's interesting (especially because apparently a Megalovania Smash remix was taken down too around the same time) but at the same time I wonder if it's a case of looking for clues that don't exist? I mean Nintendo have been dishing out copyright strikes on Youtube more often these days right?
 
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Tetiro

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If they upgrade spirits Rex & Co. should be a lock, but I wouldn't expect Geno unless Nintendo magically bought the rights to SMRPG because I suspect Square Enix doesn't see him being as profitable as someone from their own franchises, even with fan demand.
They probably do after the Mii Costume for Geno from the Wii U era
 

Sabrewulf238

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They probably do after the Mii Costume for Geno from the Wii U era
It's curious why we haven't seen the Geno mii costume yet. It seems like a no brainer considering Square Enix gave them the go ahead last time and there wouldn't be any additional work involved. It's not like they said "no geno in Smash" either since he has a spirit.

Maybe they wouldn't feel right selling mii costumes....that'll be dlc fighters.
 

Nazyrus

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It's curious why we haven't seen the Geno mii costume yet. It seems like a no brainer considering Square Enix gave them the go ahead last time and there wouldn't be any additional work involved. It's not like they said "no geno in Smash" either since he has a spirit.

Maybe they wouldn't feel right selling mii costumes....that'll be dlc fighters.
Lloyd and Geno mii's got some particular love put into them and they are still missing while other regular miis have been coming back, even now with proto man and zero. Smells fishy!
 

MeatOfJustice

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I saw someone talking about this in the Geno thread. Apparently some SMRPG songs were taken down too?

It's interesting (especially because apparently a Megalovania Smash remix was taken down too around the same time) but at the same time I wonder if it's a case of looking for clues that don't exist? I mean Nintendo have been dishing out copyright strikes on Youtube more often these days right?
Yes, "Beware of the Forest's Mushrooms" and "Fight Against an Armed Boss" were taken down from Brawl's channel between the Nintendo takedowns and the channel's death. The proof is on a PapaGenos video.
 

THE 6r

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Yes, "Beware of the Forest's Mushrooms" and "Fight Against an Armed Boss" were taken down from Brawl's channel between the Nintendo takedowns and the channel's death. The proof is on a PapaGenos video.
Interesting, Geno has been thrown around as potentially being character 5 or round 2 character 1 (famously by that tweet from a while back). A Geno reveal would greatly increase Isaac's chances as it would prove that spirits=/=deconfirm.



Also, Cube World is coming out after 7 years in development he:GCLT::GCLT:. Let them be an example for us to follow
 
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CardStealer1

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Huh, I didn't know an Isaac track was taken down. Does anyone know of any other songs that Nintendo has taken down recently? So far, I know of Megalovania, the two SMRPG tracks, a Banjo song, and apparently Isaac's theme, with two of those coming to fruition. It may just be me and a few other guys on the site, but it seems the big 3 a couple months ago were Banjo, Isaac, and Geno (if Isaac wasn't deconfirmed) which makes these take downs much more interesting. But obviously if other songs are getting taken down that clearly are unrelated to smash then Banjo and Sans may just be the exceptions. (But as someone who doesn't care about Geno very much, he seems extremely likely IMO.)
 

Sabrewulf238

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Huh, I didn't know an Isaac track was taken down. Does anyone know of any other songs that Nintendo has taken down recently? So far, I know of Megalovania, the two SMRPG tracks, a Banjo song, and apparently Isaac's theme, with two of those coming to fruition. It may just be me and a few other guys on the site, but it seems the big 3 a couple months ago were Banjo, Isaac, and Geno (if Isaac wasn't deconfirmed) which makes these take downs much more interesting. But obviously if other songs are getting taken down that clearly are unrelated to smash then Banjo and Sans may just be the exceptions. (But as someone who doesn't care about Geno very much, he seems extremely likely IMO.)
That's all of the songs I've heard though I'm not that familiar with the take downs so someone else probably knows more. Obviously it starts to look less interesting if this is just a case of people cherry picking songs that are relevant to characters people want.

It's certainly an interesting collection of songs, particularly that Megalovania Smash song being taken down. I find that one fairly suspicious.

There's also the fact that Nintendo placed a copyright strike on two SMRPG songs and not Square Enix who are supposed to be the owners of SMRPG. (and also a Banjo Kazooie song, owned by Microsoft)
 
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N3ON

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That's all of the songs I've heard though I'm not that familiar with the take downs so someone else probably knows more. Obviously it starts to look less interesting if this is just a case of people cherry picking songs that are relevant to characters people want.

It's certainly an interesting collection of songs, particularly that Megalovania Smash song being taken down. I find that one fairly suspicious.

There's also the fact that Nintendo placed a copyright strike on two SMRPG songs and not Square Enix who are supposed to be the owners of SMRPG. (and also a Banjo Kazooie song, owned by Microsoft)
That's the thing. People just look at the removals they want to mean something. Nintendo is well known for striking down songs and in general being heavy-handed online, so if you actually look at the whole picture, the amount of stuff they remove doesn't help narrow things down in any practical sense.

More over, I can't speak for unique remixes, but most of the official rips are still very easily findable on another channel. Were Nintendo intent on going all scorched earth, as they were when the Ultimate music first leaked, you'd be hard-pressed to still find them at all. At least one that remained up.
 

StrawHatX

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Okay so here is my Isaac theory. Sakurai was actually going to make Isaac a playable character, but due to time restraints and other characters being first priorities he never got around to it. Here’s a few things to maybe back this up. (This is all just crazy theories of course)

1. All the Golden Sun spirits in WOL. A little strange how many GS spirits there are for a series that doesn’t have a playable character.

2. The Rathalos tweet by Sakurai himself. I don’t care what anyone says. That is a clear GS reference. A little weird to tweet about a series that doesn’t have a playable character. (Maybe he has done this before and I’m dumb)

3. Isaac’s AT low quality. It looks better than his Brawl AT obviously, but some think it’s one of the weaker quality AT’s and maybe that’s because it was a last minute addition due to Isaac not making the roster and them wanting to at least put his AT back in. This could also be why he wasn’t shown until the very last direct.

4. Isaac costume. As another consolation for Isaac just missing the cut.

This is all most likely reaching, especially since I’m an Isaac fan, but I think some of this could have some merit behind it. Maybe Isaac was going to be playable but just missed it. Now that Sakurai has all the time he needs and wants to please fans and make this game even more amazing I could see him actually making Isaac playable now. Just have the AT toggle off when Isaac is in the field and we’re good to go.

Anyways, that’s my conspiracy theory as an Isaac fan.
 
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SonicLink125

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“Isaac’s theme was taken down by Nintendo.”
What?!? Why haven’t we heard of this till now?!?

Granted it could mean nothing, but it’s too coincidental that Banjo’s music and Megalovania have now been added to Smash with Geno’s costume still missing and Isaac’s theme is nowhere in Smash at all. Hmmm???
 

THE 6r

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Okay so here is my Isaac theory. Sakurai was actually going to make Isaac a playable character, but due to time restraints and other characters being first priorities he never got around to it. Here’s a few things to maybe back this up. (This is all just crazy theories of course)

1. All the Golden Sun spirits in WOL. A little strange how many GS spirits there are for a series that doesn’t have a playable character.

2. The Rathalos tweet by Sakurai himself. I don’t care what anyone says. That is a clear GS reference. A little weird to tweet about a series that doesn’t have a playable character. (Maybe he has done this before and I’m dumb)

3. Isaac’s AT low quality. It looks better than his Brawl AT obviously, but some think it’s one of the weaker quality AT’s and maybe that’s because it was a last minute addition due to Isaac not making the roster and them wanting to at least put his AT back in. This could also be why he wasn’t shown until the very last direct.

4. Isaac costume. As another consolation for Isaac just missing the cut.

This is all most likely reaching, especially since I’m an Isaac fan, but I think some of this could have some merit behind it. Maybe Isaac was going to be playable but just missed it. Now that Sakurai has all the time he needs and wants to please fans and make this game even more amazing I could see him actually making Isaac playable now. Just have the AT toggle off when Isaac is in the field and we’re good to go.

Anyways, that’s my conspiracy theory as an Isaac fan.
That's probably one of the best summaries of the first 955 pages of this thread that I've ever heard
 

N3ON

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That's probably one of the best summaries of the first 955 pages of this thread that I've ever heard
I'd be quite disappointed if the best summary of this entire thread was a conspiracy theory, the conclusion of which being something that could also be accounted for by Sakurai just wanting to acknowledge Isaac's demand.
 

StrawHatX

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“Isaac’s theme was taken down by Nintendo.”
What?!? Why haven’t we heard of this till now?!?

Granted it could mean nothing, but it’s too coincidental that Banjo’s music and Megalovania have now been added to Smash with Geno’s costume still missing and Isaac’s theme is nowhere in Smash at all. Hmmm???
Yeah, it is very interesting. I really hate that I’m getting my hopes up again, but I’m also really happy.

I’m ready to get hurt again.
 

SonicLink125

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Yeah, it is very interesting. I really hate that I’m getting my hopes up again, but I’m also really happy.

I’m ready to get hurt again.
I mean, we really have nothing to lose now. We got this far. Let’s find out if we can push beyond that!
 

Dabi Strife

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Okay so here is my Isaac theory. Sakurai was actually going to make Isaac a playable character, but due to time restraints and other characters being first priorities he never got around to it. Here’s a few things to maybe back this up. (This is all just crazy theories of course)

1. All the Golden Sun spirits in WOL. A little strange how many GS spirits there are for a series that doesn’t have a playable character.

2. The Rathalos tweet by Sakurai himself. I don’t care what anyone says. That is a clear GS reference. A little weird to tweet about a series that doesn’t have a playable character. (Maybe he has done this before and I’m dumb)

3. Isaac’s AT low quality. It looks better than his Brawl AT obviously, but some think it’s one of the weaker quality AT’s and maybe that’s because it was a last minute addition due to Isaac not making the roster and them wanting to at least put his AT back in. This could also be why he wasn’t shown until the very last direct.

4. Isaac costume. As another consolation for Isaac just missing the cut.

This is all most likely reaching, especially since I’m an Isaac fan, but I think some of this could have some merit behind it. Maybe Isaac was going to be playable but just missed it. Now that Sakurai has all the time he needs and wants to please fans and make this game even more amazing I could see him actually making Isaac playable now. Just have the AT toggle off when Isaac is in the field and we’re good to go.

Anyways, that’s my conspiracy theory as an Isaac fan.
I’m sorry but this is 1000% reaching. I’m certain that Sakurai and his team planned for Isaac to be an AT from the beginning but later on decided to add the Isaac mii costume and the spirits for “compensation” for us.
 

DogManStar

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Even if Sakurai planned for Isaac to be an AT all along, hopefully the reactions to Isaac's disconfirmation will change his mind. We know he loves watching reactions and can see what people reply to him on Twitter, so he probably is aware that people were disappointed that Isaac was an AT.
 

Dabi Strife

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Even if Sakurai planned for Isaac to be an AT all along, hopefully the reactions to Isaac's disconfirmation will change his mind. We know he loves watching reactions and can see what people reply to him on Twitter, so he probably is aware that people were disappointed that Isaac was an AT.
Yeah, hopefully that ends up changing things for Isaac. It happened with others such as Mewtwo, Ridley, K Rool, etc. Although I won’t be surprised if Isaac got shafted once again lmao
 

Gioka

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Okay so here is my Isaac theory. Sakurai was actually going to make Isaac a playable character, but due to time restraints and other characters being first priorities he never got around to it. Here’s a few things to maybe back this up. (This is all just crazy theories of course)

1. All the Golden Sun spirits in WOL. A little strange how many GS spirits there are for a series that doesn’t have a playable character.

2. The Rathalos tweet by Sakurai himself. I don’t care what anyone says. That is a clear GS reference. A little weird to tweet about a series that doesn’t have a playable character. (Maybe he has done this before and I’m dumb)

3. Isaac’s AT low quality. It looks better than his Brawl AT obviously, but some think it’s one of the weaker quality AT’s and maybe that’s because it was a last minute addition due to Isaac not making the roster and them wanting to at least put his AT back in. This could also be why he wasn’t shown until the very last direct.

4. Isaac costume. As another consolation for Isaac just missing the cut.

This is all most likely reaching, especially since I’m an Isaac fan, but I think some of this could have some merit behind it. Maybe Isaac was going to be playable but just missed it. Now that Sakurai has all the time he needs and wants to please fans and make this game even more amazing I could see him actually making Isaac playable now. Just have the AT toggle off when Isaac is in the field and we’re good to go.

Anyways, that’s my conspiracy theory as an Isaac fan.
I actually doubt this almost completely. I am more of the idea that they planned the AT in response to the ballot and general sentiment for Isaac's absence in 4 and the team probably thought we would be happy/pleased enough with just the AT returning and being reworked. I do think the Mii Costume was a consolation after seeing the backlash like "this is the best we can do for now".

Now, this doesn't mean Sakurai isn't taking everything that happened last year regarding Smash into account, if they are aiming for pleasing the Smash fans specifically then everything we did helps us a lot on this.
 

Mav485

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I’m ready to get hurt again.
Consider me a +1 for this sentiment. I haven’t looked at this forum since December probably despite forever wishing Isaac could be a fighter in Smash. I think it’s a long-shot we get in, but that little bit of light or hope has snuck back into my brain. I just can’t let go of the idea that Sakurai will come back around to adding more Nintendo characters that people are expecting or requesting.
 
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Tetiro

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Consider me a +1 for this sentiment. I haven’t looked at this forum since December probably despite forever wishing Isaac could be a fighter in Smash. I think it’s a long-shot we get in, but that little bit of light or hope has snuck back into my brain. I just can’t let go of the idea that Sakurai will come back around to adding more Nintendo characters that people are expecting or requesting.
I already have a bottle of vodka for the heartbreak, and a bottle of gin (more like Djinn ;) ) for the celebration

I'm ready to get hurt all over again. As with Brawl. As with Wii U and as with Ultimate.

But I will never stop caring for Isaac or Golden Sun
 

Qeomash

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I will hope and wait all through Ultimate and it's dlc rounds, and I will wait again next time if necessary.

Isaac for Smash, always.
 
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Diddy Kong

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All of your theories here are interesting. However I think the biggest boon to Isaac’s chances is the significantly amount of RPG remakes the Switch is getting. Surely Golden Sun won’t be overlooked now! Am quite sure Golden Sun, with a possible Lost Age saga attached to it, will come to the Switch eventually. Isaac is probably the most requested Nintendo character right now. So I’m pretty confident in him.

As for Geno? I suppose Mario RPG is even more likely to get a remake now, so yes I also see him as a strong and solid candidate especially since his Mii costume is gone.
 
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Sabrewulf238

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I figure even if Isaac was planned from early on to be a an assist that doesn't mean he may not have been considered for playable at the start of development. He just didn't make the cut when Sakurai was putting the roster together. It's been a number of years since then and now so maybe Sakurai's feelings on Isaac have changed.

Or maybe now that there's going to be as many dlc characters as there are Isaac becomes a more feasible/obvious choice for inclusion.

The decision to make Isaac an assist trophy probably occurred about 4 years ago, that's one reason why I have some level of hope for promotion.
 
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THE 6r

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I just think now it's getting to a point of there just not being that many high-profile, high demand character left with a true backing within the community.


edit:spelling
 
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ArkSPiTFirE

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Ahh! So I went on holiday the night of the direct, and even now I'm on my phone to write this. But I'm very excited with the idea of more fighters, naturally I'm optimistic for Isaac and even with the glass ceiling of assist trophies still hanging over him, I think he has his last chance!
 

KoopaSaki

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Granted guys, it’s best I say one last thing before I go afk for a bit, but just how high do some of you REALISTICALLY see for Isaac go get in as dlc next year? And what timing would you expect him to be revealed if it were to happen? All my buds been asking me this question at my college dorm since I brought up our discussions so it’s useful to know this. Any proving points I’ll appreciate considering one keeps saying AT promotions are impossible. >_<
 

Tetiro

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Granted guys, it’s best I say one last thing before I go afk for a bit, but just how high do some of you REALISTICALLY see for Isaac go get in as dlc next year? And what timing would you expect him to be revealed if it were to happen? All my buds been asking me this question at my college dorm since I brought up our discussions so it’s useful to know this. Any proving points I’ll appreciate considering one keeps saying AT promotions are impossible. >_<
I would say it all depends if Sakurai will honor the Smash Ballot and satisfying the fans. If he does, Isaac is realistic
 

Sabrewulf238

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Are there plans for another Golden Sunday, who was in charge of organizing/spreading the word about the previous ones?
 

TempestSurge

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I figure even if Isaac was planned from early on to be a an assist that doesn't mean he may not have been considered for playable at the start of development. He just didn't make the cut when Sakurai was putting the roster together. It's been a number of years since then and now so maybe Sakurai's feelings on Isaac have changed.

Or maybe now that there's going to be as many dlc characters as there are Isaac becomes a more feasible/obvious choice for inclusion.

The decision to make Isaac an assist trophy probably occurred about 4 years ago, that's one reason why I have some level of hope for promotion.
One thing that gets me about the initial roster is that in general there was only one new Nintendo franchise in Splatoon compared to the amount added in 4 (Punch Out, Xenoblade, Animal Crossing, Duck Hunt, Wii Fit). So it's not even a case of say Sakurai choosing Arms as a more fitting new franchise over Golden Sun, it also gets the assist trophy treatment.

The majority of the first fighter pass has also been third party although maybe a first party could still sneak in as the 5th. There are also tons of popular, requested characters that Sakurai made into assist trophies wanting a complete game first before thinking of DLC.

I'm hoping this extra DLC starts diving into some Nintendo characters and that Sakurai considers DLC assist promotions cause it'd kind of be unfortunate the base roster not expanding beyond one new franchise and Golden Sun gets looked over cause of a decision made years ago and Sakurai/Nintendo not knowing they'd do extra DLC beyond the initial pass.
 

MeatOfJustice

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Granted guys, it’s best I say one last thing before I go afk for a bit, but just how high do some of you REALISTICALLY see for Isaac go get in as dlc next year? And what timing would you expect him to be revealed if it were to happen? All my buds been asking me this question at my college dorm since I brought up our discussions so it’s useful to know this. Any proving points I’ll appreciate considering one keeps saying AT promotions are impossible. >_<
I'd say 0~30% depending on already mentioned factors and how many characters we will get.
 
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