Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Bassoonist]

Are assist trophy’s in smash possible for wave 2?

I would say don't assume it will happen until proven otherwise.

 

[N3ON]

I know people are saying it was a mistranslation....but watching the Sakurai video about Banjo & Kazooie again really makes it seem like he's trying to break a record for most franchises represented in a single Smash Bros.

Which isn't going to be helped by including characters like Isaac, Waluigi, Dixie etc.

I don't know, I want to have hope but this is something really concerning to me right now.

Golden Sun would still be a new series on the roster, wouldn’t it?

Really depends if Sakurai is extending what he counts as a represented series past playability.

He seems like the kind of guy that would. But that doesn't inherently mean that all future characters will be from series not yet present in Smash. He also mentioned how he wants to serve the fans, and there are many fan favourites from existing series.

And that certainly has been happening in the first DLC pack, for better or for worse. It just seems to be all about expanding to any and every third party franchise even if their ties to Nintendo are very loose.

Meanwhile first party Nintendo characters like Isaac get the shaft.

I don't know, maybe I'm just old-fashioned... But I like the third party choices to at least have significant relevance to Nintendo systems.

I'm fine with the third-parties with more tenuous connections, though I do still appreciate going for ones with more storied pedigree. At least until most of that tier gets included.

But it's just a shame people will jump on you just for holding an opinion that much of the fanbase also shared. Up until Cloud the majority of people would agree about that relevant to Nintendo business.

I feel like we're really going to need a Nintendo dlc character revealed as soon as possible (Waluigi, Edelgard or even a Pokemon) to give us some breathing space. It's not going to be a great look if they continue to be third parties.

I'd love another Nintendo character (that wasn't just in it for promotion), but I feel like at this point most people don't care that it's nonstop third-parties. :/

Are assist trophy’s in smash possible for wave 2?

If they aren't we're in for another rough ride.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Golden Sun would still be a new series on the roster, wouldn’t it?

Yes and that's certainly a bit of a grey area but it was my impression that Sakurai meant completely brand new franchise representation. (like adding Crash Bandicoot or Phoenix Wright)

I don't really know what to think about all this right now. It seems like these dlc characters could go in any direction.

 

[THE 6r]

Golden Sun would still be a new series on the roster, wouldn’t it?

This, this, and this a thousand times more

 

[WaddleMatt]

I'm late but.....

AAAAHHH WE ARE BACK IN THE GAME SOMEBODY LINK ME THE GOD DAMN DISCORD SERVER RIGHT NOW IM COMING BACK!!!!!!!

 

[Bassoonist]

I'm fine with the third-parties with more tenuous connections, though I do still appreciate going for ones with more storied pedigree. At least until most of that tier gets included.

But it's just a shame people will jump on you just for holding an opinion that much of the fanbase also shared. Up until Cloud the majority of people would agree about that relevant to Nintendo business.

Yeah, I mean this is the direction that Sakurai/Nintendo/whatever was decided to take Super Smash Bros in, and no matter my opinion over it, that's just how it is.

It's just really depressing that Isaac didn't it before all of these irrelevant characters did.

 

[N3ON]

I would say don't assume it will happen until proven otherwise.

I still think Waluigi is the canary in the coalmine. If any AT gets the upgrade, I have to imagine he'd be first in line.

Unless Sakurai really is being strict about third-parties only, then I guess Bomberman might have the best odds... but that wouldn't help Isaac anyway.

 

[Gioka]

Yes and that's certainly a bit of a grey area but it was my impression that Sakurai meant completely brand new franchise representation. (like adding Crash Bandicoot or Phoenix Wright)

I don't really know what to think about all this right now. It seems like these dlc characters could go in any direction.

As pointed above, is important to have in mind that apparently he meant "expanding the Smash world" and Isaac (or any GS rep) coming with a stage would indeed expand it and also please the fans that was Sakurai's second point.

We need to be vocal once again and also hope that both Nintendo and Sakurai noticed us during base game speculation, we don't know which way the extra DLC fighters are going to go just yet and I feel we might not know until the first or second of that are announced (I am guessing either when they announce or release fighter #5 or, if they take an announcement break, until E3)

 

[N3ON]

Yeah, I mean this is the direction that Sakurai/Nintendo/whatever was decided to take Super Smash Bros in, and no matter my opinion over it, that's just how it is.

It's just really depressing that Isaac didn't it before all of these irrelevant characters did.

It's disappointing to think about, but if the base roster had been the size it usually is, we probably would've gotten Isaac on it. I mean there were only six non-echoes. Imagine if we had got like ten more.

 

[Qeomash]

With how Nintendo was surprised by the size of the semi negative reaction to Isaac being an assist rather than playable, I think our chances are pretty good.

 

[THE 6r]

With how Nintendo was surprised by the size of the semi negative reaction to Isaac being an assist rather than playable, I think our chances are pretty good.

I mean, we were a big part of the reason Sakurai asked us to stop responding with requests to his account.

 

[ZelDan]

I mean, we were a big part of the reason Sakurai asked us to stop responding with requests to his account.

Uh, were we?

I wasn't really paying attention to Sakurai's twitter but I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of other characters flooded his twitter as well.

 

[Bassoonist]

Last time it was "from what we can tell he did pretty well in the Ballot, so we have a great chance", now it's "from what we can tell Nintendo is now aware of him being wanted from the negative reaction to him being revealed as an AT, so we have a great chance".

Excuse me if I'm still pessimistic.

 

[Qeomash]

Oh, I'm still pessimistic. The AT is a huge problem, as is the lack of a game in the works.

Even with all of that, though, I think a Golden Sun rep is more likely than, say, another Earthbound rep.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

Last time it was "from what we can tell he did pretty well in the Ballot, so we have a great chance", now it's "from what we can tell Nintendo is now aware of him being wanted from the negative reaction to him being revealed as an AT, so we have a great chance".

Excuse me if I'm still pessimistic.

See your point.
I'm a hype man so I kinda just go with it but it has definitely been an exahausting ride and the announcement of fighters past the 5th Pass is the beginning of another one.

 

[THE 6r]

Uh, were we?

I wasn't really paying attention to Sakurai's twitter but I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of other characters flooded his twitter as well.

The majority of requests, from what I could tell, were us, Waluigi, and Geno

 

[Bassoonist]

Yup, it is exhausting. It never ends...

For Brawl: I thought he had a great chance because of both how big Golden Sun was right after Melee and because Isaac was an incredibly unique character. We got an Assist Trophy.

For SSB4: I thought he had a good chance because Golden Sun actually got a new title in between Brawl and SSB4. He was completely absent.

For SSBU: I honestly was pessimistic until the end when that cursed fake Grinch leak came about. I thought "Well, maybe placing high in the ballot would help him". We got an Assist Trophy.

I've now been through this three times. And to be honest, if that leak about Nintendo not even being aware of the want for Isaac is true, I'm not sure if it actually makes me feel any better about his chances going forward. Basically it says after all of this, the success of the Golden Sun franchise in the early 00's, the ballot, all of our efforts, Somehow, Nintendo wasn't even slightly aware that Isaac was seriously wanted before a live viewing of him being revealed as an AT had disappointed viewers.

I see you all taking optimism from that statement, that now they see us... But honestly, I took it in a bit of a condescending fashion, because I don't believe the want for him could be that unknown at that point. All of the best to those who properly and respectfully keep on bringing the want for Isaac and the continuation of Golden Sun to Nintendo, but it seems like we're not as big as we think. At least not in their eyes.

 

[SkeffVEVO]

Yup, it is exhausting. It never ends...

For Brawl: I thought he had a great chance because of both how big Golden Sun was right after Melee and because Isaac was an incredibly unique character. We got an Assist Trophy.

For SSB4: I thought he had a good chance because Golden Sun actually got a new title in between Brawl and SSB4. He was completely absent.

For SSBU: I honestly was pessimistic until the end when that cursed fake Grinch leak came about. I thought "Well, maybe placing high in the ballot would help him". We got an Assist Trophy.

I've now been through this three times. And to be honest, if that leak about Nintendo not even being aware of the want for Isaac is true, I'm not sure if it actually makes me feel any better about his chances going forward. Basically it says after all of this, the success of the Golden Sun franchise in the early 00's, the ballot, all of our efforts, Somehow, Nintendo wasn't even slightly aware that Isaac was seriously wanted before a live viewing of him being revealed as an AT had disappointed viewers.

I see you all taking optimism from that statement, that now they see us... But honestly, I took it in a bit of a condescending fashion, because I don't believe the want for him could be that unknown at that point. All of the best to those who properly and respectfully keep on bringing the want for Isaac and the continuation of Golden Sun to Nintendo, but it seems like we're not as big as we think. At least not in their eyes.

To be fair Nintendo was shocked by the overwhelming joy that Banjo brought, and we know they were shocked by the backlash about no playable Isaac and the lack of new Golden Sun content in general. So we might be in just the right spot now.

 

[Organization XIII]

I've now been through this three times. And to be honest, if that leak about Nintendo not even being aware of the want for Isaac is true, I'm not sure if it actually makes me feel any better about his chances going forward. Basically it says after all of this, the success of the Golden Sun franchise in the early 00's, the ballot, all of our efforts, Somehow, Nintendo wasn't even slightly aware that Isaac was seriously wanted before a live viewing of him being revealed as an AT had disappointed viewers.

I see you all taking optimism from that statement, that now they see us... But honestly, I took it in a bit of a condescending fashion, because I don't believe the want for him could be that unknown at that point. All of the best to those who properly and respectfully keep on bringing the want for Isaac and the continuation of Golden Sun to Nintendo, but it seems like we're not as big as we think. At least not in their eyes.

Even that leak were true it would only pertain to NoA who we don't care about. NoJ obviously knew Isaac was a big deal as he went from an AT they were fine with cutting to being one of two returning ATs after being cut, and the only one not attached to a fighter who was cut, given a costume, and the second largest amount of spirits for a series without a fighter. That's a huge step up from the literally nothing we got beforehand. Aside from playability status we were only screwed with music which is actually now a bonus because that leaves more for Isaac to come with.

 

[THE 6r]

Here's a video by Maximilian Dood both reacting to Terry, while also having an interesting discussion of future DLC. The most interesting points he brings up are:

1. Early in the Switch's lifespan many old SNK games were released on the eShop and sold like hotcakes, which may have been where interest and talks about Terry coming to smash began
2. There is no truly impossible character that Sakurai could bring in at this point
3. The Tokyo Game Show is coming up in December, about a month before the theoretical window that character 5 would fall into (his guess is Monster Hunter due to the development of an exclusive game for the switch)

Conclusion: point #1 proves that exposure of even older titles matters. #2 is something we've already discussed here. I haven't really seen #3 talked about though, a reveal at TGS (most likely through a direct) seems somewhat reasonable

 

[Gioka]

It has been exhausting, indeed. But the attitude of assuming defeat is what brought us here too, I believe. Our Fandom is well known for going back into nothingness every time we haven't gotten it, this is the first time the Golden Sun Fandom actually maintened activity after an speculation circle ends.

Of course, I am not saying it isn't justified to be disappointed, pessimistic or go quiet, but it is literally as if we fell from earth between the cicles because not only we no longer actively push for Isaac but content for Golden Sun as whole completely vanishes, which poses the question if that hasn't also hurt our chances of Nintendo taking us seriously. I think they were surprised by our disappointment not because they don't notice us or because the wants for Isaac was unknown but because we weren't happy/didn't settle for the AT, which maybe they thought would make us happy, to have anything Golden Sun again

 

[N3ON]

Uh, were we?

I wasn't really paying attention to Sakurai's twitter but I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of other characters flooded his twitter as well.

The Isaac fans were one voice of many adding to that cacophony.

Last time it was "from what we can tell he did pretty well in the Ballot, so we have a great chance", now it's "from what we can tell Nintendo is now aware of him being wanted from the negative reaction to him being revealed as an AT, so we have a great chance".

Excuse me if I'm still pessimistic.

I don't even disagree with having an incredulous outlook, but I assume (well... I'd hope) that people are operating under the belief that these things are all cumulative. Despite what Sakurai says about Ridley getting in due to the ballot, I believe the ballot was the last in line of a cumulative decade of fans going on about Ridley.

No argument from me that we're not in pole position here - I qualified my optimism in relation only to how things stood before yesterday. This might all be in vain, it's true; we've no idea if ATs are even still seen in contention... but if promotion does occur, I'd have to partially attribute it to pushback upon the reveal. Without it (or a new game, but GS fans can't count on that), I don't think there'd even be the impetus to reevaluate.

I also question how much more can be currently proved in terms of Smash demand specifically. Though Isaac support has always been on the basis of attrition, lol. Truthfully I think at this point there'd be more use in campaigning for GS in general, showing Nintendo there's interest in the series, not just in one character's appearance in another series.

If Isaac's main point against him is his bleak future, trying to make that future less bleak seems the best course of action.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Yup, it is exhausting. It never ends...

For Brawl: I thought he had a great chance because of both how big Golden Sun was right after Melee and because Isaac was an incredibly unique character. We got an Assist Trophy.

For SSB4: I thought he had a good chance because Golden Sun actually got a new title in between Brawl and SSB4. He was completely absent.

For SSBU: I honestly was pessimistic until the end when that cursed fake Grinch leak came about. I thought "Well, maybe placing high in the ballot would help him". We got an Assist Trophy.

I've now been through this three times. And to be honest, if that leak about Nintendo not even being aware of the want for Isaac is true, I'm not sure if it actually makes me feel any better about his chances going forward. Basically it says after all of this, the success of the Golden Sun franchise in the early 00's, the ballot, all of our efforts, Somehow, Nintendo wasn't even slightly aware that Isaac was seriously wanted before a live viewing of him being revealed as an AT had disappointed viewers.

I see you all taking optimism from that statement, that now they see us... But honestly, I took it in a bit of a condescending fashion, because I don't believe the want for him could be that unknown at that point. All of the best to those who properly and respectfully keep on bringing the want for Isaac and the continuation of Golden Sun to Nintendo, but it seems like we're not as big as we think. At least not in their eyes.

On the other side of things. It's not like we'd be the only fanbase to have gone through the wringer if Isaac made it in as a playable character. K. Rool and Ridley fans also had a rough ride. I'm sure plenty of their fans had given up hope long before SSBU was even announced.

At this point I'm fine with being disappointed. I've already felt it so I don't see how it could get any worse regardless of what happens. I mean there was a brief period in the lead up to Smash where I thought Isaac was a lock because of the grinch leak. When you've had that taken away from you I fail to see how it could get any worse.

 

[Pwnapplez]

I did something...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/...miibo_one_day_i_hope/?st=k0753s0i&sh=e1aa290d

 

[Gioka]

I did something...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/...miibo_one_day_i_hope/?st=k0753s0i&sh=e1aa290d

Very impressive! I loved it

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I did something...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/...miibo_one_day_i_hope/?st=k0753s0i&sh=e1aa290d

I just saw that a little while ago, really awesome!

 

[N3ON]

Here's a video by Maximilian Dood both reacting to Terry, while also having an interesting discussion of future DLC. The most interesting points he brings up are:

1. Early in the Switch's lifespan many old SNK games were released on the eShop and sold like hotcakes, which may have been where interest and talks about Terry coming to smash began
2. There is no truly impossible character that Sakurai could bring in at this point
3. The Tokyo Game Show is coming up in December, about a month before the theoretical window that character 5 would fall into (his guess is Monster Hunter due to the development of an exclusive game for the switch)

Conclusion: point #1 proves that exposure of even older titles matters. #2 is something we've already discussed here. I haven't really seen #3 talked about though, a reveal at TGS (most likely through a direct) seems somewhat reasonable

1. The parallel here would be VC releases of GS, not the original titles. And those were already several years ago and of little import. If the ports truly were a factor (seems questionable), they'd be old games but successful recent releases, which GS lacks.
2. That's true. Well, maybe a Sony character.
3. TGS is next week, The Game Awards are in December. A reveal at TGA is totally plausible, but probably wouldn't be tied to a MH game reveal.

 

[SkeffVEVO]

I did something...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/...miibo_one_day_i_hope/?st=k0753s0i&sh=e1aa290d

That looks sick!

 

[Ovaltine]

Just popping in here to say that, while I personally think his chances are still low (being an assist), I do think that Isaac is back in the running and I really hope you all get your guy. We Genobros and Genogals and Geno... (plural, gender neutral term here)? WE GOT YA! You have our axe! Our Golden Axe!

... Wait, no, that's SEGA, never mind...

 

[BerBer456]

Well guys I’m going to be off of smash boards for awhile but before I leave here is that old golden sun comic I did a while back only this time it’s now inked and ready. I really am rooting for golden sun to return and Isaac to finally join the fight!

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

On the topic of making the future less bleak for Golden Sun. I've been trying to do that this past with with my GS_S***posts account on twitter. I see a bunch of people have been trying to revitalize the conversation surrounding Golden Sun. I mean yesterday after the Xenoblade remake got announced, I saw a decent chunk of people asking for Golden Sun remake next too. So honestly, I think the only real way to get that ball rolling again is to keep the spirit alive over on twitter and whatnot.

 

[KoopaSaki]

 

[Sabrewulf238]

A disclaimer I noticed in the direct in regards to the further dlc characters...

"Additional DLC fighters will not be included as part of the Fighters Pass and will be sold separately."

Does that mean they'll be sold in their own Fighter Passes or they're all going to be sold individually after the final Fighters Pass character?

 

[FlawedAI]

A disclaimer I noticed in the direct in regards to the further dlc characters...

"Additional DLC fighters will not be included as part of the Fighters Pass and will be sold separately."

Does that mean they'll be sold in their own Fighter Passes or they're all going to be sold individually after the final Fighters Pass character?

My interpretation is that they won't be a part of the current, five character, Joker/Hero/Banjo/Terry/#5 Fighter Pass, although that doesn't disqualify them from releasing another pass with more characters.

Regarding Sakurai's statements, I personally believe that the most important is the one about pleasing fans. That plays right into our hands, as one of the largest (and therefore, most vocal) fanbases, we have a pretty good shot at being the character he was thinking about in regards to his statement. I'm sure (assuming PolarPanda's leak was true) that NoA relayed their surprise about Isaac's Assist backlash to NoJ, and then a month or so later, #GoldenSun was trending on Twitter thanks to the first Golden Sunday. I think the only fanbase louder than us at our peak is Waluigi's, and I'm sure Sakurai has taken into consideration the response to the Rathalos tweet, the fact that Golden Sun was trending in August 2018 thanks to the trademark, and the general support that Isaac gained over the course of Ultimate's pre-release hype cycle. Not to mention, he may have done really well in the Ballot (just not quite well enough to warrant base-game playability) and is already a known fan choice for Sakurai and the team, playing back into Sakurai's statement about wanting to please fans.

 

[Organization XIII]

A disclaimer I noticed in the direct in regards to the further dlc characters...

"Additional DLC fighters will not be included as part of the Fighters Pass and will be sold separately."

Does that mean they'll be sold in their own Fighter Passes or they're all going to be sold individually after the final Fighters Pass character?

It sounds like they will be separate which would make sense as Sakurai didn't like the pass structure but we have no way of knowing until the first one is revealed.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I would say don't assume it will happen until proven otherwise.

Yeah, it seems to me like they'd dedicate resources in other areas. At the very least, the initial reaction to the AT's return should help change things for next game.

In the meantime, the priority is to help encourage Camelot to do something other than sports Mario, should they get healthy enough again.

 

[Gurein]

I did something...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/...miibo_one_day_i_hope/?st=k0753s0i&sh=e1aa290d

This is beyond sick, it almost looks official!!
GOD I want an Isaac amiibo so bad.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Only thing is...."pleasing fans" doesn't necessarily mean Smash fans. Arguably any character could get into Smash and there will be "fans" who are "pleased".

For example Lara Croft doesn't have that much demand in the Smash Community, but it's not like she doesn't have a notable fanbase....and I'm sure they'd be very happy to see her join Smash Bros.

I know it seems like I'm coming down hard on Isaac, it's not like I don't have some hope....but I also have plenty of reservations.

I think it's the not having a clue about what way this is going to go down that's bothering me. Too much mystery!

 

[N3ON]

I did something...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/...miibo_one_day_i_hope/?st=k0753s0i&sh=e1aa290d

If Isaac got in next year, I'd really look forward to his official amiibo releasing in 2023.

On the topic of making the future less bleak for Golden Sun. I've been trying to do that this past with with my GS_S***posts account on twitter. I see a bunch of people have been trying to revitalize the conversation surrounding Golden Sun. I mean yesterday after the Xenoblade remake got announced, I saw a decent chunk of people asking for Golden Sun remake next too. So honestly, I think the only real way to get that ball rolling again is to keep the spirit alive over on twitter and whatnot.

Seems like it's slowly crawling its way to cult status. Though not without its fair share of detractors.

Only thing is...."pleasing fans" doesn't necessarily mean Smash fans. Arguably any character could get into Smash and there will be "fans" who are "pleased".

For example Lara Croft doesn't have that much demand in the Smash Community, but it's not like she doesn't have a notable fanbase....and I'm sure they'd be very happy to see her join Smash Bros.

I know it seems like I'm coming down hard on Isaac, it's not like I don't have some hope....but I also have plenty of reservations.

I think it's the not having a clue about what way this is going to go down that's bothering me. Too much mystery!

It doesn't not mean Smash fans either. Smash fans always get some bone chucked at them. The question is just to what extent.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

If Waluigi is among the first characters outside the pass; Isaac's chances skyrocket. And I'm gonna be honest; I really feel like Waluigi is getting the upgrade.