Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Ura]

Every time he shows up in the thread I blackout and wake up halfway through an early 00s Rap/Hip-Hop playlist.

Isaac & Felix in da club like...

Trust me, i've been on more 2000's binges than i'd like to admit. When I was forced to listen to that stuff en loop as a kid, i've taken a natural affinity to that kind of music lol.

 

[GoodGrief741]

This is the moment. This is the time when we do that final push! I know we've all been eating for this opportunity.

Like an anime swordswoman once said: I said when it ends!

I mean we're doing 50 Cent jokes again WE ARE BACK

 

[BravadoMan_13]

Let's go Camelot Bros.!!!

~2nd Season DLC Revival~ #SmashBros #SmashUltimate #SuperCamelotBros #NintendoDirect #AssistAlliance pic.twitter.com/E7rvn9UlvT

— Stoic Seraphim (@Stoic_Miiverse) September 5, 2019

Great artwork as usual from Stoic as usual!

 

[SonicLink125]

Let's go Camelot Bros.!!!

~2nd Season DLC Revival~ #SmashBros #SmashUltimate #SuperCamelotBros #NintendoDirect #AssistAlliance pic.twitter.com/E7rvn9UlvT

— Stoic Seraphim (@Stoic_Miiverse) September 5, 2019

Great artwork as usual from Stoic as usual!

Oh yeah! It’s great to see you all again ready to support Isaac once again. Let’s raise the Golden Sun for Isaac together! But also for our Camelot Bro. Waluigi and all our AT/Spirit/Etc. brethren!

 

[Tetiro]

That artwork is amazing! Let's get the Golden Sun support rolling again!

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I'm a bit concerned that by saying he wants to expand the games worlds he's specifically talking about adding brand new franchises to Smash, which is obviously bad for us and Isaac.

I'm more worried about that than whether assist trophies can get promoted. (because at the end of the day assist trophies have been promoted before and whether you think it can happen now depends on how important you think the difference is between getting upgraded between games and getting upgraded within the same game through DLC. Personally I think if demand for a character is strong enough it's not going to matter when the assist trophy is getting promoted.

Whereas if Sakurai has the attitude of wanting to solely expand Smashes reach through DLC, that's way more concerning for Isaac I think because it completely locks him out of consideration.

 

[THE 6r]

Man, this truly feels like the old days. This is the true ending to the game, the one that requires you to do everything else to unlock it. Now all of us, the main party, must unite one last time to achieve our goal. Honestly, it's kinda emotional seeing all of you again. Just the return of the Isaac thread alone has made my day.

 

[ZelDan]

Personally I'm a bit concerned that by saying he wants to expand the games worlds he's specifically talking about adding brand new franchises to Smash, which is obviously bad for us and Isaac.

I'm more worried about that than whether assist trophies can get promoted. (because at the end of the day assist trophies have been promoted before and whether you think it can happen now depends on how important you think the difference is between getting upgraded between games and getting upgraded within the same game through DLC.

Whereas if Sakurai has the attitude of wanting to solely expand Smashes reach through DLC, that's way more concerning for Isaac I think.

That "different worlds" comment was mistranslated. Pushdustin said as much I believe.

Ah, found the tweet in question:

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1169409252403769344

So yeah, not quite the same.

 

[Deleted member]

Personally I'm a bit concerned that by saying he wants to expand the games worlds he's specifically talking about adding brand new franchises to Smash, which is obviously bad for us and Isaac.

I'm more worried about that than whether assist trophies can get promoted. (because at the end of the day assist trophies have been promoted before and whether you think it can happen now depends on how important you think the difference is between getting upgraded between games and getting upgraded within the same game through DLC.

Whereas if Sakurai has the attitude of wanting to solely expand Smashes reach through DLC, that's way more concerning for Isaac I think.

My understanding of what Sakurai said in the livestream portion is this:
"just by adding one character, we can expand the world of Smash".

It's not clear cut if the additional characters will be from new IPs or not in my opinion. I ask two translator friends and they agreed. pic.twitter.com/ZeIHgzT6RR

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) September 5, 2019

Weeellll that's not really what he said that was more of a mistranslation if anything. He meant something like "Adding even a single fighter expands the world of Smash".

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/PushDustIn/status/1169409252403769344?s=20 for those on Mobile.

 

[StormC]

At this point, I think any character is fair game as long as they originate from a video game.

ATs can be disabled, so that is a non-issue for a second set of DLC. One and done.

Good luck, guys.

 

[N3ON]

Personally I'm a bit concerned that by saying he wants to expand the games worlds he's specifically talking about adding brand new franchises to Smash, which is obviously bad for us and Isaac.

I'm more worried about that than whether assist trophies can get promoted. (because at the end of the day assist trophies have been promoted before and whether you think it can happen now depends on how important you think the difference is between getting upgraded between games and getting upgraded within the same game through DLC.

Whereas if Sakurai has the attitude of wanting to solely expand Smashes reach through DLC, that's way more concerning for Isaac I think.

It is possible future DLC doesn't stray much from the type we have now, but the writing isn't on the wall yet. I don't think we're going to get some "Nintendo only" pass or what have you, but let's at least see what the first few reveals in the second batch hold before forming conclusions over the whole thing.

 

[9Blades]

So here we are again, huh? I didn't think there'd be another chance in Ultimate, so im pleasantly surprised, even though I fully expected there to be a second season of DLC. Immediately seeing that I thought ""Yeah this is our time.", and immediately came back here
Great to see so many of y'all still here too.

 

[THE 6r]

It is possible future DLC doesn't stray much from the type we have now, but the writing isn't on the wall yet. I don't think we're going to get some "Nintendo only" pass or what have you, but let's at least see what the first few reveals in the second batch hold before forming conclusions over the whole thing.

The big N tries to have Smash DLC serve 2 major purposes:

1. Satisfy long time fan requests
2. promote upcoming games
3. Keep in the company in a stable position within the business

The idea that pass 2 is a combination of 1st and 3rd parties would fit within these bounds.





I have to attempt to sleep. TOO MUCH EXCITEMENT.

 

[Qeomash]

I hope Isaac is at the top of their new DLC list. I've wanted to see Isaac playable since Brawl!

...I guess I should finish my playthrough of TLA solve I did a Golden Sun playthrough last year.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Terry shows us something important I think we've overlooked. The willfulness to ignore obscurity. We all assumed for a character to be in smash, they NEEDED to be at the forefront of gaming, or to have a legendary legacy. Terry has the legacy, but i'd struggle to call it legendary. He's not the kind of character you can walk into any old forum and talk about, and people will follow you. You'd at least need to go to a fighting game forum first, preferably one for older games too. With that in mind, it's hard to argue that he's anything but obscure. But that's okay. It breaks yet another established fan rule, that being the iconic status thing.

Which works in our favor. Golden sun is obscure, no way to get around that fact. But if they're willing to go obscure, then we're in luck.

 

[Silo777]

Oh yeah, now HERE we go! We’re back in business, baby!

 

[Tetiro]

Terry shows us something important I think we've overlooked. The willfulness to ignore obscurity. We all assumed for a character to be in smash, they NEEDED to be at the forefront of gaming, or to have a legendary legacy. Terry has the legacy, but i'd struggle to call it legendary. He's not the kind of character you can walk into any old forum and talk about, and people will follow you. You'd at least need to go to a fighting game forum first, preferably one for older games too. With that in mind, it's hard to argue that he's anything but obscure. But that's okay. It breaks yet another established fan rule, that being the iconic status thing.

Which works in our favor. Golden sun is obscure, no way to get around that fact. But if they're willing to go obscure, then we're in luck.

spaceKing got my thoughts down to a T. The Iconic rule has been knocked down again. In fact, this whole fighter pass has done that

• Joker broke the "Platform Rule"
• Hero broke the "Impossible Rule"
• Banjo broke the "Rival Company Rule"
• Terry broke the "Iconic Rule"
• ??? breaks the "Already in Smash Rule"???

Sakurai can be a clever man at times. Im now rooting the 5th breaks that last rule. It does not need to be Isaac. Anyone will do!

 

[N3ON]

spaceKing got my thoughts down to a T. The Iconic rule has been knocked down again. In fact, this whole fighter pass has done that

• Joker broke the "Platform Rule"
• Hero broke the "Impossible Rule"
• Banjo broke the "Rival Company Rule"
• Terry broke the "Iconic Rule"
• ??? breaks the "Already in Smash Rule"???

Sakurai can be a clever man at times. Im now rooting the 5th breaks that last rule. It does not need to be Isaac. Anyone will do!

Idk, I think Cloud broke the "platform rule", assuming that rule was never having a significant or mainline appearance on a Nintendo platform.

Also not sure what the "Impossible Rule" is. If it's being seen as impossible, that describes Banjo more than Hero.

 

[Tetiro]

Cloud is a weird one considering each FF has a new hero. The series for a large part was on Nintey platforms. Persona however was exclusuve to Q2.

as for DQ, they had a lot going against them. Moreso than Banjo

Idk, I think Cloud broke the "platform rule", assuming that rule was never having a significant or mainline appearance on a Nintendo platform.

Also not sure what the "Impossible Rule" is. If it's being seen as impossible, that describes Banjo more than Hero.

 

[Organization XIII]

as for DQ, they had a lot going against them. Moreso than Banjo

I disagree with that. We Banjo fans were not only looking at being owned by a rival company but also he had competition for who Nintendo would try to get from Microsoft in the form of the icon Master Chief and the super relevant Minecraft. Not to mention Steve being the leaker pick or Banjo being, and technically still is, dead. Banjo had the fan support but one look at Geno should show why it was a very bitter speculation between Steve and Banjo. Hero had Square being Square I guess. I mean I guess you could cite the rule that DQ protags can't fight each other but most leaks only gave us Erdrick so we thought it was only one anyways. Oh the composer I guess could have been an issue but well two tracks only have happened before.

 

[Tetiro]

You also had the rights for DQ music being a legal nightmare

EDit: and Microsoft wanted Banjo to join the fight

I disagree with that. We Banjo fans were not only looking at being owned by a rival company but also he had competition for who Nintendo would try to get from Microsoft in the form of the icon Master Chief and the super relevant Minecraft. Not to mention Steve being the leaker pick or Banjo being, and technically still is, dead. Banjo had the fan support but one look at Geno should show why it was a very bitter speculation between Steve and Banjo. Hero had Square being Square I guess. I mean I guess you could cite the rule that DQ protags can't fight each other but most leaks only gave us Erdrick so we thought it was only one anyways. Oh the composer I guess could have been an issue but well two tracks only have happened before.

 

[Hydewell]

On one hand, the fact Sakurai mentioned he wants to please the fans is a good sign for us (and well, also for big loud fanbases like Geno, Sora, Lloyd, etc..). Isaac has (or had) one of the most vocal and popular fanbase in the internet, being in top of a lot of polls before his reveal as an AT. Also, an hypothetical Golden Sun game could be in the works (at least the posibility is there) and that would help a lot.

But, on the other hand, that statement could mean nothing. Basically, any character will please the fans, even if they're obscure. We have the last one, Terry, as an example. Very few people asked for him and, even if some people claim he's popular in latinoamerica and some parts of Asia, I really doubt that that market is important for Nintendo when they don't even distribute their console and games themselves. Even Piranha Plant was well-received after some time... And seeing how all the characters from the season pass are 3rd parties (I really doubt the 5th will be a 1st party...), I can't think they will change it in the new DLCs.
Besides, the competition is still terrible, there are a lot of characters there which can be eligible, even for the first party, and now all the AT and spirits are also a competitors. Probably the only ones who are "deconfirmed" are the last paid Mii costumes lol

Even if our probabilities has increased a bit due to announcement, nothing is guaranteed. Being an AT really hurts, but I hope the tantrum we had when it was announced help us. If that leak from ¿Papagenos? was true, at least Nintendo is aware of demand, which help us a lot and can put above of others. But nowadays, people can support other options for the fact they see Isaac as an imposible for his current role. If one character can break the rule "an AT can't be a playable character in the same game", that would help, because people will jump in Isaac ship's again (well, if he isn't the first one to break the rule).

 

[N3ON]

Cloud is a weird one considering each FF has a new hero. The series for a large part was on Nintey platforms. Persona however was exclusuve to Q2.

I guess, but that's not how the rule was defined by the fanbase. And the point is that they are fanbase rules.

as for DQ, they had a lot going against them. Moreso than Banjo

It's owned by a stingy company, but one previously shown to be cooperative (though barely). The popularity was more one-sided, but it's not like DQ was nonexistent outside Japan. Those are far cries from "impossible". I remember people raising Dragon Quest here and there as far back as Brawl, because historically it's been a series with very close ties to Nintendo. Often Slime was raised instead of Hero, but still, it was DQ.

Honestly this reads as taking the likes of Snake, Cloud, Bayonetta and Joker for granted. Those characters had much more against them than Hero. No one ever thought Dragon Quest joining Smash would be "impossible". Unlikely, maybe, but you go back and check thoughts on Banjo between the buyout and Spencer's tweet and you'll see what was considered real impossibility. Even Sakurai has stressed how such a collaboration is extremely atypical.

 

[Dabi Strife]

Had to make a new smashboards account just for this thread lmao. Isaac’s pretty much one of the only character I want to see as a playable character in smash (since late brawl/early smash 4 days). I was starting to accept that the dream is dead and then Nintendo out here giving me hope with that announcement. Absolutely wild. Better be a damn good reason for this NINTENDO! Anyways, I hope Isaac gets his time eventually. I think it’s long overdue

 

[Tetiro]

I guess, but that's not how the rule was defined by the fanbase. And the point is that they are fanbase rules.

It's owned by a stingy company, but one previously shown to be cooperative (though barely). The popularity was more one-sided, but it's not like DQ was nonexistent outside Japan. Those are far cries from "impossible". I remember people raising Dragon Quest here and there as far back as Brawl, because historically it's been a series with very close ties to Nintendo. Often Slime was raised instead of Hero, but still, it was DQ.

Honestly this reads as taking the likes of Snake, Cloud, Bayonetta and Joker for granted. Those characters had much more against them than Hero. No one ever thought Dragon Quest joining Smash would be "impossible". Unlikely, maybe, but you go back and check thoughts on Banjo between the buyout and Spencer's tweet and you'll see what was considered real impossibility. Even Sakurai has stressed how such a collaboration is extremely atypical.

Ok I do not think I am explaining myself very well and I would need a keyboard to type it out (too much to explain on a tablet). I will have to drop this as I do not want to waste your time as it will be 8+ hours until I have a keyboard

 

[Tōji]

...did someone say...

...there's more DLC... ?

 

[Tetiro]

...did someone say...

...there's more DLC... ?

You mean it was not a dream? Thank goodness!

 

[Huanchi]

Can we finally raise the sun again.. it is too dark here

 

[Nidre]

Long time lurker (since the Melee days, jeez) but had to make an account and show my support. I believe ATs will not be an issue post-fighter's pass. Therefore, I have to show the demand is still there.

 

[Bassoonist]

Hero's addition seems much more natural and predictable than Joker and even Terry (BUT I don't even know anything about Terry or his franchise, so I could be off the mark there). Granted, I'm not super familiar with the Dragon Quest series, but I do know that it has a solid, longstanding history on Nintendo systems. And it was a franchise that's name is recognizable to me. TBH, I've never even heard of Terry or the series he comes from.

So I really don't see how Hero breaks any rules. Hero is one of the most appropriate third party characters added IMO even if not the most exciting for me personally.

 

[Gioka]

Where did he say this?



I'm not speaking in regards to Spirits here, I feel like they're different. Assist Trophies - You know why he hasn't come out and said it is impossible? Because that doesn't even need to be said. Assist Trophy status means that a character did not make it as playable. It's always been that way.

I'm not saying it is impossible for that rule to be broken, but I am saying that there's no reason to ever believe that rule will be broken until proven otherwise.



*IF* they were to choose more Nintendo franchises. That's an if at this point. Besides if they go for more first parties, we still aren't out of the woods. There are Pokemon. There are Fire Emblem characters. There are outlandish choices.

I've been hoping for Isaac for too long to get optimistic.

He said so when he was making the Banjo presentation. Even if Assist Trophies don't get upgraded if spirits do, we could get Felix or adult Isaac or Matthew, so there is that too.

And as pointed before by others, optimism and hope are what move fans to make demand, literally there is no other way to make voices heard.

Yes, there are Pokémon and Fire Emblem but if the aim is pleasing fans (as in Smash fans specifically) we could get popular requested characters as the start of DLC 2 and then the marketing choices, or even mixing them. There is no denying that older reps generate more hype because of their story, they already have the bonds made

 

[roydgriffin]

Yo Im back too!
Somehow garnered hope from the "pleasing fans" statement...
Gonna finish my isaac fanart to generate hype!

 

[Organization XIII]

EDit: and Microsoft wanted Banjo to join the fight

Yes it was heartening that Phil said he'd be cool with Banjo but see there was also the problem he didn't decide if Nintendo would approach them or who they would want.

 

[TempestSurge]

On one hand, the fact Sakurai mentioned he wants to please the fans is a good sign for us (and well, also for big loud fanbases like Geno, Sora, Lloyd, etc..). Isaac has (or had) one of the most vocal and popular fanbase in the internet, being in top of a lot of polls before his reveal as an AT. Also, an hypothetical Golden Sun game could be in the works (at least the posibility is there) and that would help a lot.

But, on the other hand, that statement could mean nothing. Basically, any character will please the fans, even if they're obscure. We have the last one, Terry, as an example. Very few people asked for him and, even if some people claim he's popular in latinoamerica and some parts of Asia, I really doubt that that market is important for Nintendo when they don't even distribute their console and games themselves. Even Piranha Plant was well-received after some time... And seeing how all the characters from the season pass are 3rd parties (I really doubt the 5th will be a 1st party...), I can't think they will change it in the new DLCs.
Besides, the competition is still terrible, there are a lot of characters there which can be eligible, even for the first party, and now all the AT and spirits are also a competitors. Probably the only ones who are "deconfirmed" are the last paid Mii costumes lol

Even if our probabilities has increased a bit due to announcement, nothing is guaranteed. Being an AT really hurts, but I hope the tantrum we had when it was announced help us. If that leak from ¿Papagenos? was true, at least Nintendo is aware of demand, which help us a lot and can put above of others. But nowadays, people can support other options for the fact they see Isaac as an imposible for his current role. If one character can break the rule "an AT can't be a playable character in the same game", that would help, because people will jump in Isaac ship's again (well, if he isn't the first one to break the rule).

I actually remember watching Mew2King and Salem's reaction to the E3 direct and as Hero's trailer plays they try to guess who it is. One of Mew2King's guesses were, 'Golden Sun guy' lol. Naturally I laugh cause dude you know it's not Isaac, you reacted to him returning as an assist lol. But I just love that despite that he still throws Isaac out there anyways.

Just sort of makes me remember that more general/casual audience out there who just root for a character regardless.

 

[Nazyrus]

Is operation daybreak still a thing? It's been a long while since i left a bunch of discord groups due to life issues back at the time… Finally got a new iMac and I might get back into art and g.design pretty soon and such, so I wanna see how I can get back to help whatever movement Isaac for Smash and Golden Sun has behind them.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I know people are saying it was a mistranslation....but watching the Sakurai video about Banjo & Kazooie again really makes it seem like he's trying to break a record for most franchises represented in a single Smash Bros. That's the impression I got.

Which isn't going to be helped by including characters like Isaac, Waluigi, Dixie etc.

I don't know, I want to have hope but this is something really concerning to me right now.

 

[Bassoonist]

I know people are saying it was a mistranslation....but watching the Sakurai video about Banjo & Kazooie again really makes it seem like he's trying to break a record for most franchises represented in a single Smash Bros.

Which isn't going to be helped by including characters like Isaac, Waluigi, Dixie etc.

I don't know, I want to have hope but this is something really concerning to me right now.

And that certainly has been happening in the first DLC pack, for better or for worse. It just seems to be all about expanding to any and every third party franchise even if their ties to Nintendo are very loose.

Meanwhile first party Nintendo characters like Isaac get the shaft.

I don't know, maybe I'm just old-fashioned... But I like the third party choices to at least have significant relevance to Nintendo systems.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

And that certainly has been happening in the first DLC pack, for better or for worse. It just seems to be all about expanding to any and every third party franchise even if their ties to Nintendo are very loose.

Meanwhile first party Nintendo characters like Isaac get the shaft.

I don't know, maybe I'm just old-fashioned... But I like the third party choices to at least have significant relevance to Nintendo systems.

I feel like we're really going to need a Nintendo dlc character revealed as soon as possible (Waluigi, Edelgard or even a Pokemon) to give us some breathing space. It's not going to be a great look if they continue to be third parties.

 

[DogManStar]

Golden Sun would still be a new series on the roster, wouldn’t it?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Are assist trophy’s in smash possible for wave 2?