Sunday July 20th, Ann Arbor, MI - Digital Ops Biweekly #5!! New Strike Out System!

[lain]

NOOOO JOHNNNZZZZ

these stages suck.

LOL

 

[Vayseth]

And one more thing, the definition of a counter pick is a stage where someone PICKS a stage and then uses it to their advantage. If a player loses on their own counterpick, it's their fault. You're SUPPOSED to win on your counterpick, that's why it's a counterpick. If someone's an idiot and counterpicks something cheap, DO IT RIGHT BACK. It's that simple.

Just because characters a, b, and c can do x, y, and z on a stage is not a reason to ban it. A counterpick is such that it gives advantages to certain characters while giving plenty of disadvantages to the opponent. You can get around every tactic on every stage on this list. If there is anything where you physically cannot get out of or prevent in some way, please tell us. That is a viable discussion point. Anything else is just people complaining about their relative inexperience on levels.

BTW, who here has ever counterpicked lylat? No one likes it, and therefore no one picks it. The point that it is available for people to possibly pick is enough. The point is, you are not FORCED to play on any of these stages unless someone CPs it. If they do, CP something else right back at them. That's what makes smash so interesting and strategically dependent. Strategy is key, and counterpicking is the mechanic that adds more depth to the game. I think after we actually have the tournament, and people play on it some, people will realize that what they were talking about was a bunch of nonsense. However, until then, practice against human opponents and come to Panda's and my smash fests that we will probably hold regularly on Thursdays or Fridays.

 

[Zankoku]

lain, you ****ing counterpicked Green Greens, Corneria, and Poké Floats in Melee. I have no idea why you're complaining about this. You'd be like the first person to use them anyway.

 

[Hot_ArmS]

lol why me ding, ive never lost to a D3.......snake is too good against ddd

wait what, distant planet? lol

im not opposed to these stages (i proly wont come anyway) i just think itd be hilarious to see ppls expression when they get owned by stages

 

[thaxceptional1]

lol lain...but come on not everyone plays alike...these stages r huge distractions that alter the playing field whether you ike to believe so or not. just think about it...what if someone who has add is playin, those cars would be a huge distraction and end up getting him killed. **** like that, and why should you have to worry about moving obstacles in a fighting game, thats just ridiculous...you might as well keep all items on if thats the case, cause they are just the same thing...just dont get hit by items duh

 

[SamuraiPanda]

lol lain...but come on not everyone plays alike...these stages r huge distractions that alter the playing field whether you ike to believe so or not. just think about it...what if someone who has add is playin, those cars would be a huge distraction and end up getting him killed. **** like that, and why should you have to worry about moving obstacles in a fighting game, thats just ridiculous...you might as well keep all items on if thats the case, cause they are just the same thing...just dont get hit by items duh

That was perhaps the most pathetic argument I've ever read. You know what? I think any character with flashy moves should be banned. Because it would distract someone with ADD. Which is totally a bannable offense.

Also, thats why its a counterpick. The hazards aren't random. They are easy avoidable and predictable with minimal effort. If you get hit by the cars, its your fault. No johns.

Like we said, there is no current argument that proves Port Town should be banned. It is merely down to opinion at this point.

 

[dingding]

yeah w/e stop this arguing lets just play it and i guess we could see the turnout

 

[Juntahh]

all your base

 

[Needle of Juntah]

ok first off samurai, u play snake so of course u see no problem with that level. 2nd geting hit by those cars is never going to be your fault. their part of the level, therefore its the levels fault. 3rdly i dont want to hear any ****ing johns when i die to a car at 20% 3 time in a row and a peice of my shattered controller flies into ur eyeball.

the lesson learned here, DONT ****ING PLAY SNAKE AND TRY TO ARGUE ABOUT CARS NOT KILLING

 

[Needle of Juntah]

oh and you dont have to tell me the list is made by people that dono what their doing, because i already know it was. it was in melee, it will be in this game too. NO-JOHNS is all i can say

 

[SamuraiPanda]

ok first off samurai, u play snake so of course u see no problem with that level. 2nd geting hit by those cars is never going to be your fault. their part of the level, therefore its the levels fault. 3rdly i dont want to hear any ****ing johns when i die to a car at 20% 3 time in a row and a peice of my shattered controller flies into ur eyeball.

the lesson learned here, DONT ****ING PLAY SNAKE AND TRY TO ARGUE ABOUT CARS NOT KILLING

Joel, seriously, they don't kill at 20%. Also, I've only played on that stage with Snake twice. I know Snake is good on that stage. You know who I played most on it? Kirby.

You know what? Vayseth used to think the exact same way you do, and so did I. But when making this stage list, Vayseth and I decided to play the stage thoroughly. He's not joking when he said we played it for hours, because we seriously spent a long time thinking about the stage. At first, I was pretty sure it was going to get banned, and Vayseth was confident that the stage was pure bull****. But after we played the stage a few times, discovered the safe zones, and learned more about the stage, we realized its not that bad at all.

Dude, if you want I'll sit down with you to point out all the safe zones, and tell you everything that can happen on that stage. After a couple rounds, I think you'll see what I'm talking about. I guarantee that once you understand the stage a little better, you'll never die to a car unless you decide to tempt fate and fight where the cars appear.

 

[Vayseth]

I still hate the stage. I ask you all to play it and find a GOOD REASON to ban it. If you do, I will be forever grateful.

I might have found some borderline stupid stuff already on a few of the stages =) But, seriously, is anyone complaining about anything but port town atm? We know port town is borderline but... does no one care about the other changes we made?

 

[Needle of Juntah]

And one more thing, the definition of a counter pick is a stage where someone PICKS a stage and then uses it to their advantage. If a player loses on their own counterpick, it's their fault. You're SUPPOSED to win on your counterpick, that's why it's a counterpick. If someone's an idiot and counterpicks something cheap, DO IT RIGHT BACK. It's that simple.

Just because characters a, b, and c can do x, y, and z on a stage is not a reason to ban it. A counterpick is such that it gives advantages to certain characters while giving plenty of disadvantages to the opponent. You can get around every tactic on every stage on this list. If there is anything where you physically cannot get out of or prevent in some way, please tell us. That is a viable discussion point. Anything else is just people complaining about their relative inexperience on levels.

BTW, who here has ever counterpicked lylat? No one likes it, and therefore no one picks it. The point that it is available for people to possibly pick is enough. The point is, you are not FORCED to play on any of these stages unless someone CPs it. If they do, CP something else right back at them. That's what makes smash so interesting and strategically dependent. Strategy is key, and counterpicking is the mechanic that adds more depth to the game. I think after we actually have the tournament, and people play on it some, people will realize that what they were talking about was a bunch of nonsense. However, until then, practice against human opponents and come to Panda's and my smash fests that we will probably hold regularly on Thursdays or Fridays.

ur philosophy on this is all wrong, but unfortunatly u see it just like everyone else that somhow has huge influence in smash :/

guess all is not brawl


ok that was a bad melee joke

Smash should be like this. Fair

How is running around on green greens, with bombs spawning at random and apples that can kill you at low % and also give health not to mention the oh so annoying wind(notice how dreamland is gone)
My last set with vidjo in mele "All FD" agreed upon before hand He wins on FD, i win on FD, he counter picks mute city (ya know the one with the cars and no ledges) he 4 stocks me. hmmm that makes tons of sense.
Area port town or whatever the **** its called in brawl has cars that are at LEAST 10X more powerful than the cars in melee. Mute city was questionable in melee, Mute city needs to be banned in brawl(**) ill tell u what those mean later.

out of all the stages that are on/ off that i dont understand. Mute city is the only one thats on, that ABSOLUTLY shouldent be, sure the questionable levels, but there always has been

k not really sure why i even took the time to write that because its not going to matter.

but basically my philosophy of smash is SKILL. i want to see SKILL win. not a circus clown jumping through hoops. theres enough bomb blowing lava flowing fire charing level changing apple eating wind ****ed bull**** going on already, we dont need to add car jumping into the mix
aight im prolly done for a lil bit

 

[Needle of Juntah]

Joel, seriously, they don't kill at 20%. Also, I've only played on that stage with Snake twice. I know Snake is good on that stage. You know who I played most on it? Kirby.

You know what? Vayseth used to think the exact same way you do, and so did I. But when making this stage list, Vayseth and I decided to play the stage thoroughly. He's not joking when he said we played it for hours, because we seriously spent a long time thinking about the stage. At first, I was pretty sure it was going to get banned, and Vayseth was confident that the stage was pure bull****. But after we played the stage a few times, discovered the safe zones, and learned more about the stage, we realized its not that bad at all.

Dude, if you want I'll sit down with you to point out all the safe zones, and tell you everything that can happen on that stage. After a couple rounds, I think you'll see what I'm talking about. I guarantee that once you understand the stage a little better, you'll never die to a car unless you decide to tempt fate and fight where the cars appear.

no i think its more like ill play with you a few rounds on that level, and your going to be begging for a ban. but i mean well just figure that out in tourney but i really dont see WTF snake is going to do with no ledges and being corralled into one part of the level for a easy smash kill

 

[thaxceptional1]

lol joel juz ****in owned u

 

[SamuraiPanda]

ur philosophy on this is all wrong, but unfortunatly u see it just like everyone else that somhow has huge influence in smash :/

guess all is not brawl


ok that was a bad melee joke

Smash should be like this. Fair

How is running around on green greens, with bombs spawning at random and apples that can kill you at low % and also give health not to mention the oh so annoying wind(notice how dreamland is gone)
My last set with vidjo in mele "All FD" agreed upon before hand He wins on FD, i win on FD, he counter picks mute city (ya know the one with the cars and no ledges) he 4 stocks me. hmmm that makes tons of sense.
Area port town or whatever the **** its called in brawl has cars that are at LEAST 10X more powerful than the cars in melee. Mute city was questionable in melee, Mute city needs to be banned in brawl(**) ill tell u what those mean later.

out of all the stages that are on/ off that i dont understand. Mute city is the only one thats on, that ABSOLUTLY shouldent be, sure the questionable levels, but there always has been

k not really sure why i even took the time to write that because its not going to matter.

but basically my philosophy of smash is SKILL. i want to see SKILL win. not a circus clown jumping through hoops. theres enough bomb blowing lava flowing fire charing level changing apple eating wind ****ed bull**** going on already, we dont need to add car jumping into the mix
aight im prolly done for a lil bit

I agree with you that stupid bull**** shouldn't decide matches. Green Greens has always been a borderline banned stage. The backroom is actually voting on it right now, and the votes are split in the middle of banned and counterpick, so trust me when I say that a good amount of people agree with you. Any stage that makes you fight the level more than you fight your opponent (like Rumble Falls) is a bull**** stage. I just sat down, with Game & Watch, for 20 minutes playing on Port Town. The cars actually don't come out that often. But here is my question to you: If you can avoid the cars completely, then is it an issue how strong they are? I can show you 3-6 places on every transformation (except one) that you will never be hit by a car if you stand in. IIRC, its been awhile, there were parts of Mute City where you couldn't avoid the cars, but there are plenty of places to avoid them on Port Town. But, in return, the cars are much stronger.

Also, I'm wondering the same thing as Vayseth... Is Port Town the only thing people are concerned about?


EDIT: Didn't see this post

no i think its more like ill play with you a few rounds on that level, and your going to be begging for a ban. but i mean well just figure that out in tourney but i really dont see WTF snake is going to do with no ledges and being corralled into one part of the level for a easy smash kill

Like I said before, there is only a single transformation that has only 1 safe place to stay. And no ledges is fine by me, because there is a floor underneath the stage most of the time. That means I don't have to worry about getting my cypher grabbed. Also, because there are multiple safe places, people usually end up in opposite corners when cars come, so Snake can just lob nades or nikitas at you while you wait for the cars to finish running by.

Yeah, the stage is pretty good for Snake. But btw, its pretty good for G&W, too. You can jump out to the ends of the stage and Fair people, but still make it back by only taking like 15% from bouncing off the bottom of the stage. His stupid parachute also lets him sit out there and wait for a transformation to happen, so some characters won't even get the chance to edgeguard him.

 

[Needle of Juntah]

Heres NOJ's ENDGAME list

Neutrals:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Smashville
Lylat Cruise

All these levels have VERY MINIMAL anomalies to them, smashville and yoshis have their lil weird platforms thats it THEY ARE NUETRAL, no phase changing no BS you can guarentee you get a GG first round with all of the above levels


Counter-Picks:

Pokemon Stadium 1 (Phase changes)
Castle Siege (phase changes)
Brinstar(melee) (Lava and breakable level)
Halberd (slight level phase and bombs/laser/crane that kills you)
Norfair (lava from all angles and it shoots you)
Pokemon Stadium 2 (phase changes)
Luigi's Mansion (breakable parts and obvious camp tactics)
Frigate Orpheon (moving parts, level that flips around and weird/no ledges)
Sky World (The floor breaks in all the spots)
Jungle Japes (Alligator thing/running water/very high ceiling)
Rainbow Cruise (it moves constantly)
Delfino Plaza (its moves and has several phase changes)

Those are the reasons they are counter picks, the only one that i would maybe try to pass of as a neutral is rainbow cruise.

even some of those levels are questionable, but i cant ban EVERYTHING just cause i dont like it.

This is the list that will make brawl good

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Just out of sheer curiosity, how come you'd ban Distant Planet? Er.. Actually, seems like you'd ban every stage with a permanent walk-off. Is it because of DeDeDe?

Also, I don't disagree with that stage list. Aside from the fact that tournaments are now shifting to the stage strike system, I could very well see your list being the final stage list a few years down the line (with the exception of Sky World). You have reasons for why they should be on, but do you have reasons why the others should be banned?

 

[Needle of Juntah]

I agree with you that stupid bull**** shouldn't decide matches. Green Greens has always been a borderline banned stage. The backroom is actually voting on it right now, and the votes are split in the middle of banned and counterpick, so trust me when I say that a good amount of people agree with you. Any stage that makes you fight the level more than you fight your opponent (like Rumble Falls) is a bull**** stage. I just sat down, with Game & Watch, for 20 minutes playing on Port Town. The cars actually don't come out that often. But here is my question to you: If you can avoid the cars completely, then is it an issue how strong they are? I can show you 3-6 places on every transformation (except one) that you will never be hit by a car if you stand in. IIRC, its been awhile, there were parts of Mute City where you couldn't avoid the cars, but there are plenty of places to avoid them on Port Town. But, in return, the cars are much stronger.

Also, I'm wondering the same thing as Vayseth... Is Port Town the only thing people are concerned about?


EDIT: Didn't see this post


Like I said before, there is only a single transformation that has only 1 safe place to stay. And no ledges is fine by me, because there is a floor underneath the stage most of the time. That means I don't have to worry about getting my cypher grabbed. Also, because there are multiple safe places, people usually end up in opposite corners when cars come, so Snake can just lob nades or nikitas at you while you wait for the cars to finish running by.

Yeah, the stage is pretty good for Snake. But btw, its pretty good for G&W, too. You can jump out to the ends of the stage and Fair people, but still make it back by only taking like 15% from bouncing off the bottom of the stage. His stupid parachute also lets him sit out there and wait for a transformation to happen, so some characters won't even get the chance to edgeguard him.

oh believe me i understand the level isnt like completly game breaking or anything. and yes even if there was a way to completly dodge the cars every phase(cept 1) its like im being told to play dodge ball, not... dodge brawl HAHAHAHAH .... yeah ... okay. im sure i can dodge my way through a few tournaments but once people start learning way to ABUSE you in the cars its going to be to late to ban it, it happened in melee. it would be nice if it didnt happen this time. thats half the reason i bark so much at the kishes is because they could have done away with alot of the crap we had in melee, but sadley they were mostly fueling the crap :/ love the guys but ****. and like i said when brawl was being released, im not playing this game for long. only until i am just losing at the game period. i know alot hate the fact that im winning right now but i am. once im done ill leave, i just wanna leave the 17-18 yr old kids that are getting into this like i did have a fair ****ing chance, and not have to deal with a bunch of scrub giggling about cars killing me at 30-40%

 

[Zankoku]

Then strike the stage. Jeez....

 

[Needle of Juntah]

Just out of sheer curiosity, how come you'd ban Distant Planet? Er.. Actually, seems like you'd ban every stage with a permanent walk-off. Is it because of DeDeDe?

Also, I don't disagree with that stage list. Aside from the fact that tournaments are now shifting to the stage strike system, I could very well see your list being the final stage list a few years down the line (with the exception of Sky World). You have reasons for why they should be on, but do you have reasons why the others should be banned?

bingo sky world was the one i woulda rather did away with but when you look at it theres really not much that makes it ban worthy, there no bombs blowing u up, there no wind, theres no items falling, there no aligator or arwing trying to get you, you dont have cars running you over. the onoly thing is the breaking levels. OKOK lemme compare that counter pick to a melee counter pick

it would be poke Floats.

gah lemme go look at what i banned again

 

[Needle of Juntah]

1. Battlefield-fine
2. Final Destination-fine
3. Yoshi's Island (Brawl)-fine
4. Castle Siege-fine
5. Smashville-fine
6. Pokemon Stadium 1-fine
7. Brinstar(melee)-fine
8. Halberd-fine
9. Distant Planet-nothing is what it seems you go to step on the platforms they start to sag, you go on the slope, water starts to sweep you away, you go to jump on the big watermelon AND IT EATS YOU. not to mention the walk off home run or the worthles items that drop. i feel that stage is just set up bad for smash. between being knocking into the watermelon and water forcing you into the middle(or just putting you in a struggling position, something chars like GW are usually in ANYWAYS)i feel its not competition worthy

Counter-Picks:
Mario Circuit-walk off homers galore. cars, i can see this level going to hell really fast once people figure out DDD
Pirate Ship-Bombs are to fast on this level, it has phase changes. the steering wheel or whatever FLINGS you away causing death in some instances. the side of the boat spikes you. Honestly i think the bombs were enough. How many death do you think those bombs have cost people in tourney SO FAR, then think about the next 3 or 4 years
Norfair-
Pokemon Stadium 2-
Port Town Aero Drive-i think you know why
Luigi's Mansion-fine
Frigate Orpheon-fine
Lylat Cruise-fine
Sky World-fine
Pictochat- cmon....(i actually beat dope in a MM this weekend because this level totaly ****ed him LOL)
Green Hill Zone- bumpers can kill walk off homers and the middle breaks down (if you want all the reasons)
Yoshi's Island (Melee)-fine
Jungle Japes-fine
Onett-was banned in melee i cant stress enough that we got it right, lets just leave it that way. the level is NO DIFFERENT actually worse cause of the overhang on the house
Corneria-ship shoot you at random 2 much i actually lost MM's to dope this weeeknd because of being shot by the ship at least 4 or 5 times in the match it was the same **** in melee. but people like being shot down apperantly
Rainbow Cruise-fine
Green Greens-wind/bombs/apples
Delfino Plaza-fine

i know i dont always give the best reasoning

 

[Zankoku]

When the water sweeps you, it sweeps you down to the ledge and you auto-grab it. The only way the bug thing will eat you is if you deliberately jump into its open mouth, pretty much...

 

[Needle of Juntah]

yeh then a snake planet a couple well placed mines and ur boned

 

[Zankoku]

Mines send you upward, not outward.

 

[Needle of Juntah]

sry bout all the posting too i was just going back through the big MI discussion topic and all the ownage i used to layeth down on nubs.
i think it may be time to reawaken the sleeping volcano

 

[dingding]

LOL JOEL...yeah just bang port aero

 

[SamuraiPanda]

9. Distant Planet-nothing is what it seems you go to step on the platforms they start to sag, you go on the slope, water starts to sweep you away, you go to jump on the big watermelon AND IT EATS YOU. not to mention the walk off home run or the worthles items that drop. i feel that stage is just set up bad for smash. between being knocking into the watermelon and water forcing you into the middle(or just putting you in a struggling position, something chars like GW are usually in ANYWAYS)i feel its not competition worthy

Like Ankoku said, there is no way to get eaten by the thing on the right side unless you actually try. Also, there is tons of warning before the water comes, because the stage goes dark and you start seeing rain. And those items are definitely pretty worthless, but it at least helps with getting your moves unstaled. The stage actually seems pretty straightforward and fair IMO.

Mario Circuit-walk off homers galore. cars, i can see this level going to hell really fast once people figure out DDD

That could happen. Or something else could happen: People can figure out how to avoid getting chaingrabbed on the bottom. Like I said before, I could see many of the stages you chose to ban as being future bans, because there is the potential that some characters (mostly D3) will be too good on them. But each of the stages actually allows counter strategies to what many people think could become broken on them. IMO, its too early to claim we know what becomes "too good" in the future.

Pirate Ship-Bombs are to fast on this level, it has phase changes. the steering wheel or whatever FLINGS you away causing death in some instances. the side of the boat spikes you. Honestly i think the bombs were enough. How many death do you think those bombs have cost people in tourney SO FAR, then think about the next 3 or 4 years

Maybe its because lots of my friends love that stage, but I've played it enough to not get hit by the hazards. Although, I just thought of something right now that would kinda make this stage 10x more ban-worthy... I wonder if faux super armor during grabs applies when getting hit by the bombs...

Pictochat- cmon....(i actually beat dope in a MM this weekend because this level totaly ****ed him LOL)

Definitely has the potential to get banned, but we should probably wait to see where it goes. Here is something that might help you when thinking about it:

Okay, IIRC, according to Phanna (who did a ton of research on the stage) a transformation occurs every 13.33 seconds. There are 27 transformations total (I think), and they work on a loop which is longer than the 8 minutes set for the game. So essentially, when one transformation happens, it will never happen again that game. For example, once the missiles come and go, they won't reappear, so those zones are then safe for the rest of the match. However, they do appear randomly without an order.

Also, here is a picture overlay of every hazard that can be drawn (Joshu made it):

At all times there are two places that you can stand and never be hit by a hazard, no matter what is drawn: In the middle of the yellow letters and the center of the stage itself. Although that only really matters if you're really that paranoid about getting hit ^_^''

Green Hill Zone- bumpers can kill walk off homers and the middle breaks down (if you want all the reasons)

I don't really get what you're saying here. Could you clarify that a bit?

Onett-was banned in melee i cant stress enough that we got it right, lets just leave it that way. the level is NO DIFFERENT actually worse cause of the overhang on the house

How come? I'm honestly curious about it, because Vayseth and I were really on the fence with this one.



Like I said, I don't doubt that your stage list could, in the future, become the stage list we'll end up using. But I think of this differently. Once a stage is banned, it will never be unbanned. We should have pretty rock solid reasons for banning a stage before dictating that it shouldn't be played.

 

[clowsui]

Onett was banned in Melee because Fox was absolutely broken on that stage. Terrifying. He could laser camp all day, he could easily waveshine infinite and have the cars kill for him, he got easy UAir + USmash kills (around 50-70% I think)...the list goes on x_x

 

[thaxceptional1]

^lol who r u

 

[clowsui]

Nobody :o
I just randomly came into the MW forum, saw interesting stage discussion and went for it
btw those percentages for Onett are off the top platforms

 

[SamuraiPanda]

He's actually correct about that. Even the SBR admits that Onett was only banned in Melee because Fox owns on it.

 

[Needle of Juntah]

they banned it for the wrong reasons then.
onnet is to campy. theres cars. and u can walk off homer there. and id bet fox is still to good on that level.


u guys are lucky im not in charge of smash, because people would actually fight eachother not levels.
counter strategies would be how you fight your opponent, not how to use the level to cheap out your opponent. because face it, dont even lie to me and tell me if you could pick a level that would kill you opponent without you having to do a move you wouldent pick it, if it was legal.... well welcome to ****ing smash because thats all people have been trying to do for years. "heys lets pick mute city so we can spam projectiles while cars run people over or make then jump through hoops while i spam those hoops with ****."

GAH im done commenting on this **** non of it matter the backroom im sure will noob it up yet again and you all will be stuck with **** over the next few years, jeeze i just hope im not the best at this game so i can quit

 

[thaxceptional1]

****nnnnnnnnnn joel juz owned u 2x son

 

[TheWildcard]

Joel owned everyone, i do wantto say this though im happy to see that panda is a civilized person and hasent blown up on joel and actully was having a conversation GG's panda.

Also, here is a picture overlay of every hazard that can be drawn (Joshu made it):

panda so your saying we have to sit there the whole match instead of fighting? i doubt you know when things are gonna spawn. i dont mind pictochat but i dont understand how people think you can just "advoid" them when you have someone trying to kill u.

 

[Zankoku]

Panda's a cool dude.

Honestly, I'm sure a lot of MI people are on the more conservative side, and I don't have too much of a problem with just playing neutrals all the time, but the rest of the Midwest is pretty heavy on the counterpick stages. :V

Especially Overswarm. :V

 

[TheWildcard]

Panda's a cool dude.

Honestly, I'm sure a lot of MI people are on the more conservative side, and I don't have too much of a problem with just playing neutrals all the time, but the rest of the Midwest is pretty heavy on the counterpick stages. :V

Especially Overswarm. :V

This is true about panda and overswarm
I Dont know what to say besides counterpicks are counterpicks for a reason but when you have to advoid the level and the person cmon, or ifthe person can do a 0 to death on the level it should be banned.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Blarg, I actually would personally like a conservative stage list over a liberal one. Frankly, I don't fight for these stages because I like them, I do it because I believe its the right thing to do. If you haven't noticed, my counterpicks are usually Smashville or BF (although I'm trying to change that) ^_^''

Btw, Omni, the picture is more "food for thought" than anything else. I generally keep those in mind while playing the stage, so I'm always aware of any potential hazards spawning on top of me.



But anyways, Joel, I see where you're coming from, but there is a line that you have to draw. See, the idea of counterpicking stages is simple: the loser of the previous match has the advantage. But what you're trying to do is dictate what they should be allowed to do in the counterpick. If they like camping with projectiles, then who are we to say they shouldn't be allowed to pick a stage that helps them out? Yeah, its pretty stupid, and I hate playing those kinds of matches, but those are viable strategies. They are frustrating, but beatable. You're just trying to impose what you think should be the way Smash is played onto others. Given, I actually agree with your point of view, but we shouldn't prevent others from playing a different way just because we think its dumb. I'm not going to lie; If there was a stage that would guarantee my victory, then I would pick that stage every time. But if there were such a stage, then it is the job of the TO to ban that stage before it happens. Fact is that there isn't such a thing as an instant victory on any of these stages. If there were, then Vayseth and I would have no qualms with banning it. But every time we thought there might be an unbeatable strategy, we were able to find multiple ways around it with the majority of the cast. If there is some way to always win on any of these legal stages, then tell us. But the fact is that they don't exist right now.

In the end Joel, I think our points of view and our opinions are much more similar than you'd think. The only difference is that I'm not looking to shape Smash into what I think it should be; I'm trying to let Smash shape itself.

 

[lain]

whatever. if it's there, i'll abuse it.

 

[Zankoku]

Meanwhile, I'll be playing SSBM and IaMP because the local Brawl community doesn't really exist in Troy. : P