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Official Summer of Smash: XI - Super Smash Con, Road2Shine, Xanadu

Y2Kay

BLACK MAMBA FOREVER
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Venia is out. Lost to Ryuga.

He played well. He's the only Greninja to make top 32 and beat two pretty good players. He did amazing for his first national. If he doesn't give up he can be a real threat in the future.

:150:
 

Illusion.

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So, 3 :4corrin: in top 24 at a major, with both Cosmos and YOC absent.

I would hope nobody still thinks this character is mediocre and has no results after this.
 
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ShadowGuy1

Smash Lord
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Apr 19, 2015
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Winners Matches

6WX :4sonic:vs Nairo:4zss:

Fatality:4falcon:vs Void:4sheik:

Scatt:4megaman:vs MVD:4diddy:


Ryo:4corrinf:vs MR.R:4sheik:

Losers Bracket

Tweek:4cloud2:vs Zinoto:4diddy:

Day:4lucario:vs Marss:4zss:

Anti:substitute:vs Rich Brown:4mewtwo:

Dabuz:rosalina:vs Ryuga:4corrinf:

saj:4bayonetta2:vs Pink Fresh:4bayonetta:

Master Raven:4sheik:vs Abadangro:4mewtwo:

Taheita :4lucas:vs Zero:4diddy:

Ally:4mario:vs Frozen:4corrinf:

3x:4corrinf:
3x:4diddy:
3x:4sheik:
2x:4bayonetta:
2x:4cloud2:
2x:4mewtwo:
2x:4zss:
1x:4mario:
1x:4megaman:
1x:rosalina:
1x:4falcon:
1x:4lucas:
1x:4lucario:

Total Number of Characters:13
 

Wintermelon43

Smash Champion
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Feb 13, 2015
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3 Corrins

I'm actually extremely worried at how much people are going to overrate him/her after this.
 

TDK

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When Corrin ties Diddy and Sheik for number of characters in top 16
 
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FullMoon

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Well all the Greninjas are out so I'm just going to hope Taiheita goes even further, although having to beat ZeRo is, well, not promising lol
 

Nidtendofreak

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So, 3 :4corrin: in top 24 at a major, with both Cosmos and YOC absent.

I would hope nobody still thinks this character is mediocre and has no results after this.
He's still mediocre, particularly since people ain't willing to just... abuse his overall bad mobility and run away. Long range only goes so far when it becomes predictable. Can say the same thing about going after his recovery (which ESAM showcased fairly well that yes actually its pretty darn gimpable for a lot of the cast). Any character becomes a lot better when you play directly into their strengths.
 

Y2Kay

BLACK MAMBA FOREVER
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I'm pretty annoyed that Venia got 1st in his pool and nearly made it into top 24 and didn't get a single match on stream.

Sigh . . .

:150:
 

ARGHETH

Smash Lord
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Mar 9, 2015
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If Taiheita lost to Marss, he'd be facing Day right now...
 
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Ninety

Smash Journeyman
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Nov 4, 2015
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Half the matches in that list look like blowouts, but nobody expected these pools. Gonna be a very interesting top 24.
 

TDK

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Winners Matches

6WX :4sonic:vs Nairo:4zss:

Fatality:4falcon:vs Void:4sheik:

Scatt:4megaman:vs MVD:4diddy:


Ryo:4corrinf:vs MR.R:4sheik:

Losers Bracket

Tweek:4cloud2:vs Zinoto:4diddy:

Day:4lucario:vs Marss:4zss:

Anti:substitute:vs Rich Brown:4mewtwo:

Dabuz:rosalina:vs Ryuga:4corrinf:

saj:4bayonetta2:vs Pink Fresh:4bayonetta:

Master Raven:4sheik:vs Abadangro:4mewtwo:

Taheita :4lucas:vs Zero:4diddy:

Ally:4mario:vs Frozen:4corrinf:

3x:4corrinf:
3x:4diddy:
3x:4sheik:
2x:4bayonetta:
2x:4cloud2:
2x:4mewtwo:
2x:4zss:
1x:4mario:
1x:4megaman:
1x:rosalina:
1x:4falcon:
1x:4lucas:
1x:4lucario:

Total Number of Characters:13
Predictions:

Nairo > 6WX
VoiD > Fatality
ScAtt > MVD
Mr. R > Ryo
Zinoto > Tweek
Marss > Day
ANTi > Rich Brown
Dabuz > Ryuga
Abstaining from Saj v Pink Fresh
Abadango > MasterRaven
ZeRo > Taiheita
Ally > Frozen
 

Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
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Trela kept running into retreating fair; Mewtwo seems to win neutral overwhelmigly
No ****.

Been saying this **** since like...forever. Ryu doesnt win neutral vs hardly any ****ing body. Certainly not Mewtwo.
 

Illusion.

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He's still mediocre, particularly since people ain't willing to just... abuse his overall bad mobility and run away. Long range only goes so far when it becomes predictable. Can say the same thing about going after his recovery (which ESAM showcased fairly well that yes actually its pretty darn gimpable for a lot of the cast). Any character becomes a lot better when you play directly into their strengths.
I knew you'd be the one to respond to what I said. YOC has won 1 or 2 Japanese tournaments, and placed 7th at another. Ryuga has gotten top 4 in each of the few tournaments (Midwest regionals) he's been to, Cosmos won a big Texas regional while also placing 4th at LTC 4, and now we have 3 :4corrin: in the top 24 of SSC with 2 top 5 represenatives absent. He also has a decent rank of #22 on Das Koopa's rankings.


Stop being in denial.
 
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TDK

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:4corrinf: does something else in doubles.

Ryuga and Rayquaza07 :4corrinf: / :rosalina: 2-1 Ally and ANTi :4mario: / :4mario:

Ryuga's punish of the up smash was beautiful.
 

Das Koopa

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oh look cloud is on the verge of not making top 16 at a supermajor

w h a t a s u r p r i s e
 

Key313

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Messages
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I knew you'd be the one to respond to what I said. YOC has won 1 or 2 Japanese tournaments, and placed 7th at another. Ryuga has gotten top 4 in each of the few tournaments (Midwest regionals) he's been to, Cosmos won a big Texas regional while also placing 4th at LTC 4, and now we have 3 :4corrin: in the top 24 of SSC with 2 top 5 represenatives absent. He also has a decent rank of #22 on Das Koopa's rankings.


Stop being in denial.
After the recent talk about results for Peach not meaning anything who is higher on the list and is considered bad/mediocre I doubt their minds will be changed for Corrin.
 

ShadowGuy1

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After the recent talk about results for Peach not meaning anything who is higher on the list and is considered bad/mediocre I doubt their minds will be changed for Corrin.
See the thing with Peach, is that no one has won anything major? Or place highly. Ok, that last part was a lie, but Corrin has better a lot of things. Honestly the only result for Peach I can think off the top of my head was Samsora, but I know Kie and Umeki do well with her. Also, I don't see people place Peach above Corrin.
 

sedrf

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Cloud overrated and corn underrated on smashboards?
I don't know
 
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Key313

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See the thing with Peach, is that no one has won anything major? Or place highly. Ok, that last part was a lie, but Corrin has better a lot of things. Honestly the only result for Peach I can think off the top of my head was Samsora, but I know Kie and Umeki do well with her. Also, I don't see people place Peach above Corrin.
For the list I mean Das Koopa's. Not about where people place Peach or Corrin. Just their results. I'm saying that if someone is higher in results and is talked about like that then I can't see them changing for Corrin either.
 

ShadowGuy1

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For the list I mean Das Koopa's. Not about where people place Peach or Corrin. Just their results. I'm saying that if someone is higher in results and is talked about like that then I can't see them changing for Corrin either.
Ah, that makes sense now haha. Should of said weighted tho, cause un weighted Corrin is ahead.
 

Nidtendofreak

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I knew you'd be the one to respond to what I said. YOC has won 1 or 2 Japanese tournaments, and placed 7th at another. Ryuga has gotten top 4 in each of the few tournaments (Midwest regionals) he's been to, Cosmos won a big Texas regional while also placing 4th at LTC 4, and now we have 3 :4corrin: in the top 24 of SSC with 2 top 5 represenatives absent. He also has a decent rank of #22 on Das Koopa's rankings.


Stop being in denial.
I didn't talk about results at all in my post. In fact you ignored my actual post entirely. Saw my name, hit reply with your preloaded rant. Don't do that.

Of course Corrin has decent results right now. 22nd is 22nd, I ain't disputing that. Fits in with my argument that mid tiers (particularly higher end ones) have cycles of results and then dry spells. I've been saying Corrin is at the higher bit of mid tier for a while now.

My point that people refuse to abuse his mobility weakness is a valid one. Particularly since the general idea (actually running away instead of engaging) is one people weirdly refuse to use unless they're Sonic. They're rather jump in on Ryu and take an uppercut to the jaw, or try to move in on Corrin and take a Side B, or approach Mario and take a Usmash, then just... keep their distance. If you have the lead that's absolutely what you should be doing in many cases. Not all no, and you do have to mix it up otherwise you'll become predictable, but people are so stubbornly aggressive when they shouldn't be that is aggravating. And with some characters (Corrin, Ryu, Mario all being great examples), you're planning directly into their game plan because they have moves that will push that hard. Happened at multiple majors not just this one.

People need to stop doing that. Once they stop doing that, characters that benefit particularly largely from that will drop to various degrees. A character like Mario will drop a little, he can still approach fine for the most part and has the mobility for it. A character like Corrin will drop more, he does not have good tools for approaching, certainly not the mobility for it. A character like Ryu... probably closer to the Corrin side of the scale but harder to pin down as he's more unique.
 

chaos11011

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People on Twitch are saying the Lucas/Lucario team is going to be banned. If they are, I'm going to be very disappointed. Not only do Tai and Goma have insane team synergy and familiarity with one another that no one could simply "pick up the combo" and win majors with that alone, but Mr. R and Trela did so well at adapting game 2 even if they didn't win, and that's only was only in one game, imagine multiple matches and actually studying the team. They almost brought it back with face value analysis.

I feel like the team is going to win the tournament, but people shouldn't instant ban out of fear. People need to learn how to fight it. They are only destructive as they are because people don't realize how to combat the gimmick until it's too late.
 
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Djent

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Lucario+Lucas arguably wasn't the #1 team before the healing nerf, so if it gets banned it would suggest there were many other deserving teams as well.
 
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Broqan

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Ban :4lucario:+:4lucas: as opposed to prepatch double :4cloud2::4cloud:? I don't get this community sometimes.
 

Rysir

The shorts wearing blue anubis
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Since luc(as)ario team is an endure and muscle strat that is not perfectly safe and is not an oh crap attack like bucket strats were Id think its safe from being banned.
 
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Illusion.

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I didn't talk about results at all in my post. In fact you ignored my actual post entirely. Saw my name, hit reply with your preloaded rant. Don't do that.
You didn't need to. I did it simply to prove facts and show that your repeated statement of "mediocre character" is now nullified by the good results he's been getting lately. Do I also need to mention his good MU spread?

Of course Corrin has decent results right now. 22nd is 22nd, I ain't disputing that. Fits in with my argument that mid tiers (particularly higher end ones) have cycles of results and then dry spells. I've been saying Corrin is at the higher bit of mid tier for a while now.
Except he's been getting consistent results for the past 2-3 months now, and 3 great ones at SSC alone.

My point that people refuse to abuse his imobility weakness is a valid one. Particularly since the general idea (actually running away instead of engaging) is one people weirdly refuse to use unless they're Sonic. They're rather jump in on Ryu and take an uppercut to the jaw, or try to move in on Corrin and take a Side B, or approach Mario and take a Usmash, then just... keep their distance. If you have the lead that's absolutely what you should be doing in many cases. Not all no, and you do have to mix it up otherwise you'll become predictable, but people are so stubbornly aggressive when they shouldn't be that is aggravating. And with some characters (Corrin, Ryu, Mario all being great examples), you're planning directly into their game plan because they have moves that will push that hard. Happened at multiple majors not just this one.

People need to stop doing that. Once they stop doing that, characters that benefit particularly largely from that will drop to various degrees. A character like Mario will drop a little, he can still approach fine for the most part and has the mobility for it. A character like Corrin will drop more, he does not have good tools for approaching, certainly not the mobility for it. A character like Ryu... probably closer to the Corrin side of the scale but harder to pin down as he's more unique.
Being relatively slow =\= mediocre character, just look at :4bayonetta: and :4diddy:. You do realize that :4corrin: has absurd range, high damage-racking, and frame data, right? If your plan is to run away, that requires you to get past his relatively safe wall that deals good damage. If you do get the lead, don't act like you can stay out of his range forever; you're eventually going to get cornered and be in range, potentially bringing the game back to even or in his favor. He doesn't have any trouble approaching due to his safe, ranged options.
 
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Mr. Johan

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Doesn't matter if the healing isn't an "Oh crap" situation by virtue of an OHKO attack.

With how rapid fire aura'd Lucario can throw out AS on a Magnet that doesn't even have to be out visually for it to work, a 0% Lucas is the "Oh crap" situation.

No way is this being left alone.
 

Aaron1997

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Taigoma :4lucas::4lucario: > ZeRo/Nairo :4diddy::4cloud2: 3-2 Looks like ZeRo/Nairo has figured out how to beat this team. The problem with Lucas in this team is that he is useless without Lucario. Someone with a strong Nertral could just keep Lucas/Cario in disadvantage. In games 2 and 3 Lucas was offstage vs Cloud 70% of the time both games. Game 4 and 5 they won because they finally got openings to heal and it was the difference. This team is far from ban worthy. Its very strong but now ban Worthy.
 
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Rysir

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Doesn't matter if the healing isn't an "Oh crap" situation by virtue of an OHKO attack.

With how rapid fire aura'd Lucario can throw out AS on a Magnet that doesn't even have to be out visually for it to work, a 0% Lucas is the "Oh crap" situation.

No way is this being left alone.
Its way too quick to just slap a ban on a working strat even more so since it was starting to falter and ended up really close. May as well say throw into KO punch or throw into limit should be banned.

Just because its new and works does not mean it needs banned.


(I know it was in brawl, I mean new to smash 4 meta)
 
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ShadowGuy1

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Doesn't matter if the healing isn't an "Oh crap" situation by virtue of an OHKO attack.

With how rapid fire aura'd Lucario can throw out AS on a Magnet that doesn't even have to be out visually for it to work, a 0% Lucas is the "Oh crap" situation.

No way is this being left alone.
Sigh.

This is what our community has come to. Asking for things to be banned even tho both players are playing amazingly. Reminds me of, oh wait, this emitted games history where at every tournament people say fix or ban this. Goma and Tai are like the best dubs team I have seen, they play perfectly in synch. Yes you have justifiable reasonings for it to be banned, and while it may be slightly to good, the Lucas player specifically has to be good to focus on getting the aura sphere before it hits him and dealing with oncoming attacks. This is not something easy to pull off like bucket shenanigans.
 

Nu~

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You didn't need to. I did it simply to prove facts and show that your repeated statement of "mediocre character" is now nullified by the good results he's been getting lately. Do I also need to mention his good MU spread?

Except he's been getting consistent results for the past 2-3 months now, and 3 great ones at SSC alone.

Being relatively slow =\= mediocre character, just look at :4bayonetta: and :4diddy:. You do realize that :4corrin: has absurd range, high damage-racking, and frame data, right? If your plan is to run away, that requires you to get past his relatively safe wall that deals good damage. If you do get the lead, don't act like you can stay out of his range forever; you're eventually going to get cornered and be in range, potentially bringing the game back to even or in his favor. He doesn't have any trouble approaching due to his safe, ranged options.
You're really using Bayonetta and diddy as examples of characters with low mobility?

Dude...diddy has a superb running speed and monkey flip to counteract his low air speed. Bayonetta has after burner kick as a stupid mobility/punish/repositioning option.
 

Sinister Slush

❄ I miss my kind ❄
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I don't understand why people see the Lucas Lucario team as a problem. It existed in brawl and didn't get banned.
It's been in this game since the release of Lucas as DLC, still not banned. Why bring up bans on it now, nothing will ever compare to Double MK in brawl or prepatch double Cloud.
 

Illusion.

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You're really using Bayonetta and diddy as examples of characters with low mobility?

Dude...diddy has a superb running speed and monkey flip to counteract his low air speed. Bayonetta has after burner kick as a stupid mobility/punish/repositioning option.
I misread Diddy's sprint speed as DK's when I looked at KuroganeHammer, so that one is completely my bad. :4diddy:'s air speed is awful though; Monkey Flip helps remedy it somewhat, but it's interceptible.

:4bayonetta: is slow on the air and ground. ABK in the air is her saving grace, but she has nothing on the ground (Heel Slide has relatively high start-up).
 

MachoCheeze

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Doesn't matter if the healing isn't an "Oh crap" situation by virtue of an OHKO attack.

With how rapid fire aura'd Lucario can throw out AS on a Magnet that doesn't even have to be out visually for it to work, a 0% Lucas is the "Oh crap" situation.

No way is this being left alone.
Y'all some babies, man.
 
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